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Zombie

Are Republicans Evil?

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I ask this seriously. When I was kid, GHWB was President. My parents were fairly liberal Democrats, but they said he was a good man who meant well. It could be argued that despite all the terrible shit GWB did, he also meant well. Likewise, McCain was a proponent of some bad shit, but he probably wasn't much worse than hawkish Democrats at the same time. But Trump and his voters are a whole different animal. No matter how racist, misogynist, xenophobic, and dishonest Trump is, they don't seem to care. It appears, at this moment in time, that Republicans have a total absence of decency and morality.

It really fucking disturbs me because when I was growing up I knew Republicans who I thought were decent people but just disagreed about what was a reasonable tax rate or other relatively innocuous policy disagreements. But now, every Republican I meet that supports Trump strikes me as an evil piece of shit. I'm really disturbed by right wingers and I think we're in for some dark times because of their evilness. Maybe I'm being melodramatic. I hope so. 

Edited by Zombie
Too much bourbon inspired darkness.

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People that identified as "Republicans" a few years ago?  Very few were evil.   Today?  Many are evil.  Many, many more are just uninformed or just plain stupid. 

My own MIL. Lovely, intelligent woman.  She's uninformed.  She voted for Trump (and she lives in FL).  Last visit, she's telling me her vote was strictly for economic reasons, and she's convinced she's correct.  I ask her to elaborate.  She says that her income is based on stocks, and Trump has done wonders with the stock market.  I tell her that Obama's last two years were better for stocks than Trump's first two years.  I might as well have told her that the sky is pink.  She's convinced that I'm not only wrong, but that I must be crazy too. 

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I’d say most republican voters are more ignorant than evil.  However, many of the republicans in office are flirting with evil because they should know better. 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz

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I hope they are from your points of view.  The only time Democrats ever give praise to Republicans are when those Republicans do not represent a threat to their power.  See Dole post 1996, McCain post 2008, Romney post 2012, Kasich any time, etc.  The more of a threat Democrats see a Republican to their quest for power the more they demonize and vilify him.  Explains their reaction to Trump perfectly.  

Advice for the RNC  and Republican politicians--if Democrats are not calling you a racist or a Nazi they are not worried about defeating you.

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Evil 

Unethical

Cowardly

Lacking self-respect

Vile

Uncaring

Stupid

Ignorant

Misguided

Terrible

Easily Manipulated

Obtuse

Unworthy

Hypocrite

Racist

Xenophobic

Aggy

Nazi

 

 

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Barry Goldwater would dickslap every Republican in office today because they fucking deserve it. 

Edited by RPM

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42 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

Advice for the RNC  and Republican politicians--if Democrats are not calling you a racist or a Nazi they are not worried about defeating you.

Maybe if the president is telling elected representatives and citizens who are practicing their first amendment right to air grievances to "go back to where they came from" that's actually racist and authoritarian? But nothing we say will ever change your pickled brain, you're too far into fox news and brietbart and daily stormer land to see anything with clear eyes

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2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Maybe if the president is telling elected representatives and citizens who are practicing their first amendment right to air grievances to "go back to where they came from" that's actually racist and authoritarian? But nothing we say will ever change your pickled brain, you're too far into fox news and brietbart and daily stormer land to see anything with clear eyes

They see it as a joke straight out of Blazing Saddles.

AmusingDirectChuckwalla-small.gif

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52 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

I hope they are from your points of view.  The only time Democrats ever give praise to Republicans are when those Republicans do not represent a threat to their power.  See Dole post 1996, McCain post 2008, Romney post 2012, Kasich any time, etc.  The more of a threat Democrats see a Republican to their quest for power the more they demonize and vilify him.  Explains their reaction to Trump perfectly.  

Advice for the RNC  and Republican politicians--if Democrats are not calling you a racist or a Nazi they are not worried about defeating you.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Scared shittless

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5 hours ago, Zombie said:

I ask this seriously. When I was kid, GHWB was President. My parents were fairly liberal Democrats, but they said he was a good man who meant well. It could be argued that despite all the terrible shit GWB did, he also meant well. Likewise, McCain was a proponent of some bad shit, but he probably wasn't much worse than hawkish Democrats at the same time. But Trump and his voters are a whole different animal. No matter how racist, misogynist, xenophobic, and dishonest Trump is, they don't seem to care. It appears, at this moment in time, that Republicans have a total absence of decency and morality.

It really fucking disturbs me because when I was growing up I knew Republicans who I thought were decent people but just disagreed about what was a reasonable tax rate or other relatively innocuous policy disagreements. But now, every Republican I meet that supports Trump strikes me as an evil piece of shit and, I'm ashamed to admit, I fantasize about them dying a painful death for their evil and treason against Democracy and America. I'm just drunkenly writing my stream of consciousness, but I'm really disturbed by right wingers and I think we're in for some dark times because of their evilness. Maybe I'm being melodramatic. I hope so. 

Conservatives? For the most part, no. 

Republicans?  For the most part, yes.

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They're not necessarily evil but their worst feelings have been validated and nurtured by 30 years of talk radio and Fox News.  They're done even pretending to be the party of family values, fiscal responsibility, and law and order.  Most of what's left is just hating other people.  

 

George Will left the GOP because it has completely abandoned the principals it used to claim.  Last week, Rush said it out loud that they never really cared about the debt.  So, what's left of the Republican Party?

https://fortune.com/2018/06/22/george-will-leaves-republican-party-donald-trump/

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/17/politics/rush-limbaugh-debt-trump/index.html

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5 hours ago, Zombie said:

I ask this seriously. When I was kid, GHWB was President. My parents were fairly liberal Democrats, but they said he was a good man who meant well. It could be argued that despite all the terrible shit GWB did, he also meant well. Likewise, McCain was a proponent of some bad shit, but he probably wasn't much worse than hawkish Democrats at the same time. But Trump and his voters are a whole different animal. No matter how racist, misogynist, xenophobic, and dishonest Trump is, they don't seem to care. It appears, at this moment in time, that Republicans have a total absence of decency and morality.

It really fucking disturbs me because when I was growing up I knew Republicans who I thought were decent people but just disagreed about what was a reasonable tax rate or other relatively innocuous policy disagreements. But now, every Republican I meet that supports Trump strikes me as an evil piece of shit and, I'm ashamed to admit, I fantasize about them dying a painful death for their evil and treason against Democracy and America. I'm just drunkenly writing my stream of consciousness, but I'm really disturbed by right wingers and I think we're in for some dark times because of their evilness. Maybe I'm being melodramatic. I hope so. 

User name checks out!

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2 minutes ago, Bojack said:

They're not necessarily evil but their worst feelings have been validated and nurtured by 30 years of talk radio and Fox News.  They're done even pretending to be the party of family values, fiscal responsibility, and law and order.  Most of what's left is just hating other people.  

 

George Will left the GOP because it has completely abandoned the principals it used to claim.  Last week, Rush said it out loud that they never really cared about the debt.  So, what's left of the Republican Party?

https://fortune.com/2018/06/22/george-will-leaves-republican-party-donald-trump/

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/17/politics/rush-limbaugh-debt-trump/index.html

Yeah too many of the GOP and the base define conservatism thusly - 

D_wzng2XYAABRhu.png

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Some Louisiana political consultant had a good tweet thread this morning.  Talking about running against David Duke.  He got 60% of the white vote in 90 for senator.  Got more white votes in 92 for governor, but they were able to swamp him with turnout so the percent went down to 55.  This situation is just what most white people want, and they’ll declare fealty to whichever party will give them that.  With the electoral college, that can be enough for the presidency.  I don’t think either party realty had a monopoly on this sort of thing from mid-70s until mid-Obama years.  Now it’s the R focus.  

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Currently they serve and promote evil, and are antiamerican. 40% of the country is not innately evil.  There's some sort of venn diagram of stupid, frightened, angry and immoral/evil, and most of them are some combination of the first three.  The rest also include the fourth.

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52 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Scared shittless

Interesting POV in a thread asking if mean old republicans are evil......

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1 hour ago, EMAWesome said:

The more of a threat Democrats see a Republican to their quest for power the more they demonize and vilify him.  Explains their reaction to Trump perfectly.  

Advice for the RNC  and Republican politicians--if Democrats are not calling you a racist or a Nazi they are not worried about defeating you.

Trumpkins- Democrats were sooooo sure they were going to win the 2016 election

 

Also Trumpkins- Democrats were soooo scared a guy who unapologetically called for the execution of innocent black and Latino Americans, who claimed he could walk out onto to 5th Avenue and shoot someone without losing his supporters, and this was the reason why his supporters were the best, was going to win the election, that they had to resort to calling him and his supporters racists and Nazis.

Edited by Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

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18 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

Some Louisiana political consultant had a good tweet thread this morning.  Talking about running against David Duke.  He got 60% of the white vote in 90 for senator.  Got more white votes in 92 for governor, but they were able to swamp him with turnout so the percent went down to 55.  This situation is just what most white people want, and they’ll declare fealty to whichever party will give them that.  With the electoral college, that can be enough for the presidency.  I don’t think either party realty had a monopoly on this sort of thing from mid-70s until mid-Obama years.  Now it’s the R focus.  

I like what Rick Wilson said a few months ago - that Trump allowed the GOP to embrace their id.

For several the last couple decades, the GOP promoted policies and candidates and played on fears that were clearly racially tinged and designed for the betterment of the 1%.  However, the politicians and many of the pundits would say things like "well, we just want less government interference in our lives and religious liberty and rugged individualism and political correctness is a blight on our landscape and blah blah blah."  But all the while the GOP elites would give winking acceptance at the David Dukes of the world because they needed in them at the polls, as the elites knew that deep down many (most?) GOP voters were closet racists or at least prejudiced.

But with Trump, all of that pretense is down the toilet.  Now, the GOP is inarguably the part of white nationalism - there's no fealty to the constitution to be found, Trump wants to nationalize industries and media, and there is a palpable fear of the other.  In 

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27 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Currently they serve and promote evil, and are antiamerican. 40% of the country is not innately evil.  There's some sort of venn diagram of stupid, frightened, angry and immoral/evil, and most of them are some combination of the first three.  The rest also include the fourth.

Yes, you have to separate the stupid, the scared and the angry from the evil.  

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I've used the hyperbole of calling the GOP evil. In reality, I don't like evil as a descriptor because it carries a supernatural element and suggests an inherent quality.

Most people truly believe they are doing good. The deplorables think they act in the best interests of a great America. They're horribly wrong, of course. Their actions and attitudes are vile and base. In political discourse, they are the face-painted NFL fans in the end zone seats: drunk, screaming profanity even though children are present, and ready to fight if you suggest they tone it down.

They are the children of the hate engine. At first, misguided and now become religious in their deplorable ways.

Evil? It seems the above description is enough without drifting into philosophy.

It's sort of like the controversy over the president's tweets at the four congresswomen. 

"Those tweets are xenophobic, anti-democratic, endangering, dishonest, and racist!"

"They're not racist." 

"Okay, let's focus on that."

You don't need to focus on that. You can let that point go and smash Trump with the rest. But we're idiots who are easily led onto a battlefield of the opponents' choosing.

Is the GOP evil? Maybe. Maybe not. The racism, corruption, incompetence, threat to the institutions of our republic, and general malevolence check enough boxes for me. 

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Come on, of course they aren't evil. It's thinking like this (assuming you think they are evil) that causes irreparable rifts.

They are misguided, as is the GOP. They don't think for themselves, they are scared of what they (white/elderly/lacking a college degree) might lose in the future. They desperately need a scapegoat. They engage in extreme confirmation bias. 

In short, they are average humans.

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49 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Fear fuels hate, always has. 

And hate, leads to suffering. 

Edited by Pato del Muerto

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7 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

People that identified as "Republicans" a few years ago?  Very few were evil.   Today?  Many are evil.  Many, many more are just uninformed or just plain stupid. 

My own MIL. Lovely, intelligent woman.  She's uninformed.  She voted for Trump (and she lives in FL).  Last visit, she's telling me her vote was strictly for economic reasons, and she's convinced she's correct.  I ask her to elaborate.  She says that her income is based on stocks, and Trump has done wonders with the stock market.  I tell her that Obama's last two years were better for stocks than Trump's first two years.  I might as well have told her that the sky is pink.  She's convinced that I'm not only wrong, but that I must be crazy too. 

Well, I guess the sky is as pink as your My Little Pony lunchbox.

 

Nov 7th 2014-Nov 8th 2016= 758.41 increase 4.35%

Jan 2nd 2015 - Jan 3 2017= 2057.77 increase 11.5%

Jan 20th 2015- Jan 20th 2017= 2312.02 increase 13.2%

 

Nov 8th 2016- Nov 8th 2018 = 7858.98 increase 42.8%

Jan 3rd 2017- Jan 2nd 2019= 3482.48 increase 17.5%

Jan 20th 2017-Jan 22nd 2019= 4577.23 increase 23.0%

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1 hour ago, Bojack said:

They're not necessarily evil but their worst feelings have been validated and nurtured by 30 years of talk radio and Fox News.  They're done even pretending to be the party of family values, fiscal responsibility, and law and order.  Most of what's left is just hating other people.  

 

George Will left the GOP because it has completely abandoned the principals it used to claim.  Last week, Rush said it out loud that they never really cared about the debt.  So, what's left of the Republican Party?

https://fortune.com/2018/06/22/george-will-leaves-republican-party-donald-trump/

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/17/politics/rush-limbaugh-debt-trump/index.html

At this point I think most true conservatives who actually care about other people have serious misgivings with regards to the GOP and it's current trajectory. While many (like myself) have disassociated themselves with the Republican party, there really isn't anywhere for them to go. There are probably many more who would leave in a heartbeat if there was a realistic alternative that had any semblance of embodying the principles of fiscal responsibility and limited government. Instead we have a Democratic party that keeps getting pushed further left (without really any acknowledgment that some conservative principles have merit, like limiting the powers of the executive branch which have become so eroded that we are in the situation we are in today) all the while saying that if you don't vote for them you are evil. The whole two party system has left us in a terrible place where a large portion of the country is left with making the choice between voting against their beliefs on either side of the spectrum.

We've become stuck in a terrible negative feedback loop. It seems that both parties have decided that when it comes to negotiating it makes sense to move to the extreme so that any compromise will be further to their side. Except that when both parties move to the extreme compromise is impossible because you have to have some sort of common ground to work with. Let's talk extremes. Pretend that Democrats want to outlaw all private gun ownership and Republicans want it to be legal to buy machine guns and antiaircraft missiles without any kind of paperwork or governmental interference. What kind of compromise is there between the two? Certainly nothing that either side will agree to. So we've been left with expanding the power of the executive branch, which hasn't worked out too well for us lately. 

So how can we fix this system? I legitimately want an answer, because neither party seems to care about the interests or opinions of large majority of Americans. Instead they go about polarizing themselves to the detriment of us all.

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7 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Well, I guess the sky is as pink as your My Little Pony lunchbox.

 

Nov 7th 2014-Nov 8th 2016= 758.41 increase 4.35%

Jan 2nd 2015 - Jan 3 2017= 2057.77 increase 11.5%

Jan 20th 2015- Jan 20th 2017= 2312.02 increase 13.2%

 

Nov 8th 2016- Nov 8th 2018 = 7858.98 increase 42.8%

Jan 3rd 2017- Jan 2nd 2019= 3482.48 increase 17.5%

Jan 20th 2017-Jan 22nd 2019= 4577.23 increase 23.0%

Just so we're clear, it will be all on Donald Trump when it reverses course during his presidency, correct?

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8 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

So how can we fix this system? I legitimately want an answer, because neither party seems to care about the interests or opinions of large majority of Americans. Instead they go about polarizing themselves to the detriment of us all.

This is only true about one party.

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I always think back to Rush bitching about Ted Kennedy getting the best of W when there was collaboration on the education bill. He never let that go. You can't trust the Ds.

I think a lot of R voters are nostalgic about a R party that never existed, or existed a long time ago, or existed in the 60s as the D party.

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To your question, yes.  The sumbitches are because Reagan, Bush and Bush II paved the road for the current orange POS that owns the fetid party that lies to itself about being Conservative, small government and whatever else helps them sleep at night. 

Edited by Mdhorn

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5 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

To your question, yes.  The sumbitches are because Reagan, Bush and Bush II paved the road for the current orange POS that owns the fetid party that lies to itself about being Conservative, small government and whatever else helps them sleep at night. 

Reagan, Bush and W have very little to do with this. 

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20 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

We've become stuck in a terrible negative feedback loop. It seems that both parties have decided that when it comes to negotiating it makes sense to move to the extreme so that any compromise will be further to their side. Except that when both parties move to the extreme compromise is impossible because you have to have some sort of common ground to work with. Let's talk extremes. Pretend that Democrats want to outlaw all private gun ownership and Republicans want it to be legal to buy machine guns and antiaircraft missiles without any kind of paperwork or governmental interference. What kind of compromise is there between the two? Certainly nothing that either side will agree to. So we've been left with expanding the power of the executive branch, which hasn't worked out too well for us lately. 

How about instead of pretending out that scenario, we talk about the current reality which is that one party is evil and one party is not conservative (and includes viewpoints that are very liberal).  If you pull the lever for putting babies in cages and dismantling the constitution, don't act like you didn't have a choice because someone got you scared you might lose your gun.

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1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

This is only true about one party.

If both parties are making an intentional movement to the extremes then there is no way it isn't true about both parties. Anybody with a lick of sense can see that that pretty much guarantees that the legislative branch will be completely ineffective and allow the executive branch to usurp nearly all of it's power. Which then puts the country on a rollercoaster ride where we go from one extreme to the other based on the reactions of the electorate to the policies implemented. I know you are pretty far to the left according to most here, even if you only consider yourself left of center, but do you deny that the strategy of polarization has left us to the whims of the executive branch at the cost of a representative legislative branch? Because if you truly think your political vision is best for the country, then maybe incremental movement is best. Anything quicker will just put us on a rollercoaster ride of extremes.

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3 minutes ago, retread said:

I think a lot of R voters are nostalgic about a R party that never existed, or existed a long time ago, or existed in the 60s as the D party.

This.

I think that only a small percentage of Republican voters are truly evil (that percentage gets higher once you get into this actual administration, though - Stephen Miller is genuine evil, and the sycophants who enable horrific behavior for short-term career gains are evil as well).

Most have been duped, and led down the primrose path, which can take you to some pretty dark places.  You take one step, then another, then another, and then you find yourself chanting "send them back!"  Many of these folks, 10-20 years ago, would have told you that such chants/sentiments are wrong and have no place here.  But they've been led down the road of mostly fear.

There's no such thing as a muslim who isn't a terrorist sympathizer, or who won't become one soon.

There's no such thing as a messican who isn't here to mooch off our system, sell drugs to our kids, and rape and murder our women.

They are an existential threat!  So we should 1) be terrified of them, and 2) do ANYTHING we can to protect ourselves from them.  When you have accepted those premises -- fear, and the reflexive protectionist response it entails, then evil almost always follows.

Contrast today's GOP ethos on immigration with that of Reagan, or W.  Seriously, there's plenty to criticize about W, but his approach on immigration was one where I gave him an A+.  That same approach, today, is viciously attacked by the GOP as "open borders," "anti-American," etc.  Pure amygdala-based fear governs, and there can be no discussion, no compromise.  The ONLY options that can be discussed without being branded a traitor are "WALL!" and "DEPORT THEM ALL!"  A conversation is impossible.

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13 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

Reagan, Bush and W have very little to do with this. 

Trump didn't just happen.  There is a rich element to this that was making a lot of money and even more with laxer laws and oversight with each administration.  

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1 minute ago, Celery Man said:

How about instead of pretending out that scenario, we talk about the current reality which is that one party is evil and one party is not conservative (and includes viewpoints that are very liberal).  If you pull the lever for putting babies in cages and dismantling the constitution, don't act like you didn't have a choice because someone got you scared you might lose your gun.

If one party is evil and the other is not conservative, then you really haven't said anything to narrow down which party is evil. There is no conservative party left in America. Maybe the answer is both parties are evil. Voting for the lesser of two evils should never have to be requirement for someone to not be evil. In fact that seems like a bit of a contradiction. Maybe we should instead talk about how we can fix our system so we don't have to worry so much about that? 

And I'm not sure how you got the idea that I've supported putting babies in cages based on what I've posted here. For the record, my wife's parents were both born in Mexico and got amnesty under Reagan. She was born here, but spent enough time living in Mexico when she was younger (her grandfather was not doing well and they moved back down there to take care of him for a few years) that she had to repeat kindergarten when they came back because she didn't speak english well enough. My brother in law is just now supposed to be getting his green card after years of efforts that have only been exasperated by the current administration. So, yeah, I pretty much despise what the Republican party has been doing with regards to immigration. I didn't vote for any of them in the last two elections, and I voted for a couple of democrats in statewide elections last go around because the Republican party has drifted so far away from what I believe in. But I still believe in limited government and fiscal responsibility. Neither party seems to be interested in those ideals, so I probably won't support either unless something changes.

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14 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

If both parties are making an intentional movement to the extremes then there is no way it isn't true about both parties. Anybody with a lick of sense can see that that pretty much guarantees that the legislative branch will be completely ineffective and allow the executive branch to usurp nearly all of it's power. Which then puts the country on a rollercoaster ride where we go from one extreme to the other based on the reactions of the electorate to the policies implemented. I know you are pretty far to the left according to most here, even if you only consider yourself left of center, but do you deny that the strategy of polarization has left us to the whims of the executive branch at the cost of a representative legislative branch? Because if you truly think your political vision is best for the country, then maybe incremental movement is best. Anything quicker will just put us on a rollercoaster ride of extremes.

The Democratic Party is not making an intentional move to the extreme. In fact, progressives are frustrated because the opposite is true.

 

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18 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

Reagan, Bush and W have very little to do with this. 

Ronald Reagan has a fuck ton to do with it. He paved the way for the working class to hate self-government at the expense of their own well-being.

Edited by David Dennison

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23 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

Reagan, Bush and W have very little to do with this. 

What? 

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3 hours ago, Post Oak said:

Evil 

Unethical

Cowardly

Lacking self-respect

Vile

Uncaring

Stupid

Ignorant

Misguided

Terrible

Easily Manipulated

Obtuse

Unworthy

Hypocrite

Racist

Xenophobic

Aggy

Nazi

 

 

That's it? 

Not transphobic and islamphobic and anti Semite? Weak!

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22 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

If both parties are making an intentional movement to the extremes then there is no way it isn't true about both parties. Anybody with a lick of sense can see that that pretty much guarantees that the legislative branch will be completely ineffective and allow the executive branch to usurp nearly all of it's power. Which then puts the country on a rollercoaster ride where we go from one extreme to the other based on the reactions of the electorate to the policies implemented. I know you are pretty far to the left according to most here, even if you only consider yourself left of center, but do you deny that the strategy of polarization has left us to the whims of the executive branch at the cost of a representative legislative branch? Because if you truly think your political vision is best for the country, then maybe incremental movement is best. Anything quicker will just put us on a rollercoaster ride of extremes.

Yea that would be fine if incremental change was possible. One side has been trying for at least the last decade plus to make incremental change that will help all Americans. The other has been fighting to preserve the status quo and benefit the richest earners at the direct expense of the working class.

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5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The Democratic Party is not making an intentional move to the extreme. In fact, progressives are frustrated because the opposite is true.

 

The comments on the how to appeal to reluctant Trump voters thread disagree with this. I know you've posted on that thread. I also have seen you make comments about pragmatism in the legislature with regards to Pelosi and her treatment of AOC's bunch, so I know you can see the value in having a long game. Maybe try acknowledging that there are folks out there who are intentionally trying to push both parties to the extremes and we can go there. There is room to discuss whether ideas that one party deems extreme have any merit if and only if both parties are willing to find some common ground to work with. As of now they don't think they do and we are on a rollercoaster until it either breaks or we decide to fix it.

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1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

Yea that would be fine if incremental change was possible. One side has been trying for at least the last decade plus to make incremental change that will help all Americans. The other has been fighting to preserve the status quo and benefit the richest earners at the direct expense of the working class.

So are you saying that if I made a list of liberal ideas or ideals that have been pushed for for the last decade plus that none of them have made any progress?

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Dude we have evidence of Dems trying to find common ground. Look at Obamacare. Pubs don’t want to do anything. There is no equivocation between the two parties at this point in time. Wake up

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Just now, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

 

The comments on the how to appeal to reluctant Trump voters thread disagree with this. I know you've posted on that thread. I also have seen you make comments about pragmatism in the legislature with regards to Pelosi and her treatment of AOC's bunch, so I know you can see the value in having a long game. Maybe try acknowledging that there are folks out there who are intentionally trying to push both parties to the extremes and we can go there. There is room to discuss whether ideas that one party deems extreme have any merit if and only if both parties are willing to find some common ground to work with. As of now they don't think they do and we are on a rollercoaster until it either breaks or we decide to fix it.

I am not the Democratic Party. I am one of the people who is frustrated with moderates. I think they should go hard left and stay there. The American people will follow.

Progressives always win eventually. This country is much further to the left culturally and socially than anyone could have ever dreamed 100 years ago.

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