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Struggles for Offense/Defense and How to Fix It


LTtxfan

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Texas O-Line is getting no push so Horns rushing attack sucks.  Texas in 3rd and long for most of TCU game.  Sam was under pressure from TCU pass rush the whole game.

Playcalling during TCU was horrible.  First and goal from 6yd line and Horns don't run the ball even once and aren't able to score a TD. The lack of short passes and checkdowns for Sam in playcalling made defending Texas pass offense much easier for TCU DBs.

  • Have no idea why the Texas OL has regressed?
  • Still don't understand why Ossai isn't used more to rush the passer?  
  • What should be done during Bye Week to get this Team ready to beat K-State?

Herman probably won't make any changes to his staff before the season is over, but here's some ideas he might consider...

 Bye Week Changes for Herman 

  1. Promote Andre Coleman to interim WR coach
  2. Fire 2 Assistants -- Mehringer & either Meekins or Warehime (one that stays coaches TE's)
  3. Ask Huff to be an interim DB coach rest of yr
  4. Have Naivar provide more help for Orlando and other defensive coaches

 

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Fire everyone. How hard would it be to be worse than the last 2 weeks? They are dead last in every measurable stat in defense and special teams pretty much. The offense finally imploded from the pressure of trying to carry all the fucking games. 

This team playing super vanilla HS football would perform just the same as it does today. 

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Young players at difficult read positions is a non starter.  Hit the transfer market hard.  Bring in the best players.  Start by looking for excellent talent in the #2 slot in rotations on really good teams.  Pay them what they want.  Playing freshman and sophomores is a really bad idea unless they are all world talents.

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Offense sucking is disappointing.  And nobody was out due to injury for TCU until Brewer went down yesterday.

No excuses for poor offensive performance against TCU.  Offense needs to sustain drives to reduce the number of plays that defense is on the field.

Get this shit fixed Mensa!!

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The defense is what it is.  Young and tons of injuries.  The offense is the real problem because they aren’t sustaining long drives that eat up the clock and help out said defense.  That blame goes primarily to the offensive line.  That unit should be much better than they have been and that is where I place most of blame.  Herb Hand better figure it out fast.  

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On offense Sam is going to have to keep the ball more on the read play and run more of that QB power.  I don't think he is hurt as some suggest.  I think they are trying to protect him, which makes little sense because this offense has always relied on a QB running the ball and giving LBs and DBs playing close to the LOS pause and punishment.  RoJo needs to see the bulk of the carries.  He dances less, hits holes harder and is more likely to make something out of nothing.  Again this offense is supposed to be an offense that punishes its opponent at the LOS.  It is doing none of that right now.  

On defense install a shock collar around Orlando's neck and activate it every time a blitz starts more than 10 yards away from its intended target.  The 3 man front is an abortion but it isn't getting fixed at this point so at least stop sending extra guys who have no prayer of getting there.  I'd like to say get the guy who can coach a DB to play the ball.  Sometimes you are just going to get beat and be out of position and sometimes you are going to be doing all the right things and the receiver is just going to make a play... but I've never seen a Texas defense beaten while "in position" and not requiring any spectacular play from the receiver as much as this one.  That last 4th down conversion for TCU yesterday the QB just threw up an alley oop pass and because our DBs never play the ball it was converted.  

I don't even know what you fucking do about having -12 yards in punt returns on the season with all these supposed athletes.  Garrett is a fucking robot clown but he's not wrong when he talks about all three phases of the game being important and this many games in actually having your return game COSTING you field position is absolutely mind boggling.  Probably fire somebody.  

Edited by Surly Bevo
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1. OC from Leach coaching tree.
2. 4 man defensive front with 1 sizable fast MLB who can both move and take on OL.
3. Six DB’s, with one of the DB’s having size (Owens) to play up as required.
5. Blitz five every once in awhile from wherever you want. Blitz 6 rarely but for change of pace.
6. Mix up man and cover two.
7. Drop Warehime today.
8. Drop Meh at the end of the season. He’s too hot or miss.
9. Replace Washington with someone who can both recruit and teach.
10. Beck stays only as a QB coach and only if the new OC wants him.
11. Put the fourth DL into shallow coverage a few times a game to eff with the other team.

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6 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

On offense Sam is going to have to keep the ball more on the read play and run more of that QB power.  I don't think he is hurt as some suggest.  I think they are trying to protect him, which makes little sense because this offense has always relied on a QB running the ball and giving LBs and DBs playing close to the LOS pause and punishment.  RoJo needs to see the bulk of the carries.  He dances less, hits holes harder and is more likely to make something out of nothing.  Again this offense is supposed to be an offense that punishes its opponent at the LOS.  It is doing none of that right now.  

On defense install a shock collar around Orlando's neck and activate it every time a blitz starts more than 10 yards away from its intended target.  The 3 man front is an abortion but it isn't getting fixed at this point so at least stop sending extra guys who have no prayer of getting there.  I'd like to say get the guy who can coach a DB to play the ball.  Sometimes you are just going to get beat and be out of position and sometimes you are going to be doing all the right things and the receiver is just going to make a play... but I've never seen a Texas defense beaten while "in position" and not requiring any spectacular play from the receiver as much as this one.  That last 4th down conversion for TCU yesterday the QB just threw up an alley oop pass and because our DBs never play the ball it was converted.  

I don't even know what you fucking do about having -12 yards in punt returns on the season with all these supposed athletes.  Garrett is a fucking robot clown but he's not wrong when he talks about all three phases of the game being important and this many games in actually having your return game COSTING you field position is absolutely mind boggling.  Probably fire somebody.  

giphy.gif

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The scheme on offense has been simple and so predictable. I can’t remember the last reverse or sweep. Was happy to see the fake punt but wish we wouldn’t have lost the punter in the process. While Sam played poorly the WRs got little separation, albeit that was a very good DB unit for TCU, but CJ had several inches advantage. Still the variety of plays is hurting us in addition to worsening OL play.

Roach has his issues. He makes some stupid decisions at times, although the 3 man front is not helping him either.

It seems like the team is losing more and confidence in the scheme and the coaches with each game, and there are no changes from the coaches except doubling down on failed schemes.

 

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1 minute ago, El Squared said:

The scheme on offense has been simple and so predictable. I can’t remember the last reverse or sweep. Was happy to see the fake punt but wish we wouldn’t have lost the punter in the process. While Sam played poorly the WRs got little separation, albeit that was a very good DB unit for TCU, but CJ had several inches advantage. Still the variety of plays is hurting us in addition to worsening OL play.

Roach has his issues. He makes some stupid decisions at times, although the 3 man front is not helping him either.

It seems like the team is losing more and confidence in the scheme and the coaches with each game, and there are no changes from the coaches except doubling down on failed schemes.

 

I don’t think complexity has much to do with it. Now execution? To me that is something entirely different. Though I could be wrong..

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4 minutes ago, El Squared said:

The scheme on offense has been simple and so predictable. I can’t remember the last reverse or sweep. Was happy to see the fake punt but wish we wouldn’t have lost the punter in the process. While Sam played poorly the WRs got little separation, albeit that was a very good DB unit for TCU, but CJ had several inches advantage. Still the variety of plays is hurting us in addition to worsening OL play.

Roach has his issues. He makes some stupid decisions at times, although the 3 man front is not helping him either.

It seems like the team is losing more and confidence in the scheme and the coaches with each game, and there are no changes from the coaches except doubling down on failed schemes.

 

Playcalling currently has no imagination and is not using motion.  Not finding ways to get skill players open in space -- that falls on Mensa.  

Confidence is lacking and it seems none of the players are having any fun on this team right now.  Herman has to shake things up and make changes during the Bye Week!!

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19 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Don't bench one of your best receivers.

 

2 minutes ago, OU Sucks said:

Or if you bench him, tell him straight up that he won't be playing.  Don't leave him out there on the sideline with his helmet on, thinking he has a chance to play.

Up Reps for both!   (out of reps for today)

Missing all of the 1st half was enough punishment -- Eagles should have played in the 2nd half.

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1 hour ago, immamac said:

Fire everyone. How hard would it be to be worse than the last 2 weeks? They are dead last in every measurable stat in defense and special teams pretty much. The offense finally imploded from the pressure of trying to carry all the fucking games. 

This team playing super vanilla HS football would perform just the same as it does today. 

But Mensa is too mensa for simple and vanilla and basic. How dare we simple minded fans dare question anything mensa does. 

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1 hour ago, immamac said:

Fire everyone. How hard would it be to be worse than the last 2 weeks? They are dead last in every measurable stat in defense and special teams pretty much. The offense finally imploded from the pressure of trying to carry all the fucking games. 

This team playing super vanilla HS football would perform just the same as it does today. 

How can I be sure you’re not an Aggie plant?

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1 hour ago, Surly Bevo said:

 I don't even know what you fucking do about having -12 yards in punt returns on the season with all these supposed athletes. 

Holy shit, I thought this was a joke until I looked it up.  That is fucking incomprehensible.  Between that and all the muffed punts, somebody's office needs to be cleaned out yesterday, fuck this mother fucking bullshit!

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I'll just start this by saying I don't expect anything to get fixed, because if the coaches were going to fix the same issues we've seen pop up week after week, then they already would have. If Herman fired Orlando right now and gave the interim DC (probably Ash) two weeks to install a new, simplified scheme, then our defense could take a massive step forward to below average for the rest of the season, but he probably won't.

On offense, I've been talking about this since the offseason, but playing basically 100% 11 personnel is just stupid. We're seeing the same thing with McVay in the NFL. When you're too tied to a single personnel grouping, you can't exploit a defenses weaknesses week to week and it's too easy to figure you out.  Hell, even McVay has mixed up his personnel quite a bit more in response and their offense is improving . I was hopeful when we heard stuff about the 2 back sets in the offseason that Herman would do this, but he hasn't and we're basically just relying on Sam to be super human each week, which is a completely unfair standard to require of him.  Herman needs to spend all bye week and next offseason studying guys like Kyle Shanahan and Matt LaFleur. You don't have to run a ton of different concepts. If you run the same concepts out of a bunch of different looks, then it gives the illusoin of complexity while keeping things simple for your offensive personnel. 

On both offense and defense, teams have our systems figured out. They know our keys/reads and how we'll react and are exploiting both sides of the ball accordingly. The lack of response from both sides of the ball is pretty unbelievable actually. I knew Herman was stubborn, but to see the complete absence of any kind of response to teams figuring us out is still pretty shocking to me. 

Special Teams has been absolutely pathetic. Calling fair catch and actually catching it would probably have us net about an extra 300 yards on the season. I have no clue how any ST unit, even with terrible coaching, could be this bad. Shit is fucked, and ST is probably the most obvious sign of how terribly coached this entire team is. I still can't believe how far this team has fallen in such a short amount of time. It doesn't even seem possible.

The only real fixes for either side will come with a new DC, and possibly OC (if Herman were to let that OC have any meaningful say in the offense), or at least Herman spending all offseason making real changes to his offense. We'll have the personnel to run 21, 11, 12, and plenty of other variations next season, so there will be absolutely no excuse to come out and run all 11 personnel next year, but that's what I'm expecting until the coaching staff can show otherwise.

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21 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

I'll just start this by saying I don't expect anything to get fixed, because if the coaches were going to fix the same issues we've seen pop up week after week, then they already would have. If Herman fired Orlando right now and gave the interim DC (probably Ash) two weeks to install a new, simplified scheme, then our defense could take a massive step forward to below average for the rest of the season, but he probably won't.

On offense, I've been talking about this since the offseason, but playing basically 100% 11 personnel is just stupid. We're seeing the same thing with McVay in the NFL. When you're too tied to a single personnel grouping, you can't exploit a defenses weaknesses week to week and it's too easy to figure you out.  Hell, even McVay has mixed up his personnel quite a bit more in response and their offense is improving . I was hopeful when we heard stuff about the 2 back sets in the offseason that Herman would do this, but he hasn't and we're basically just relying on Sam to be super human each week, which is a completely unfair standard to require of him.  Herman needs to spend all bye week and next offseason studying guys like Kyle Shanahan and Matt LaFleur. You don't have to run a ton of different concepts. If you run the same concepts out of a bunch of different looks, then it gives the illusoin of complexity while keeping things simple for your offensive personnel. 

On both offense and defense, teams have our systems figured out. They know our keys/reads and how we'll react and are exploiting both sides of the ball accordingly. The lack of response from both sides of the ball is pretty unbelievable actually. I knew Herman was stubborn, but to see the complete absence of any kind of response to teams figuring us out is still pretty shocking to me. 

Special Teams has been absolutely pathetic. Calling fair catch and actually catching it would probably have us net about an extra 300 yards on the season. I have no clue how any ST unit, even with terrible coaching, could be this bad. Shit is fucked, and ST is probably the most obvious sign of how terribly coached this entire team is. I still can't believe how far this team has fallen in such a short amount of time. It doesn't even seem possible.

The only real fixes for either side will come with a new DC, and possibly OC (if Herman were to let that OC have any meaningful say in the offense), or at least Herman spending all offseason making real changes to his offense. We'll have the personnel to run 21, 11, 12, and plenty of other variations next season, so there will be absolutely no excuse to come out and run all 11 personnel next year, but that's what I'm expecting until the coaching staff can show otherwise.

Great post....

Forward to CDC!!

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I'll just start this by saying I don't expect anything to get fixed, because if the coaches were going to fix the same issues we've seen pop up week after week, then they already would have. If Herman fired Orlando right now and gave the interim DC (probably Ash) two weeks to install a new, simplified scheme, then our defense could take a massive step forward to below average for the rest of the season, but he probably won't.
On offense, I've been talking about this since the offseason, but playing basically 100% 11 personnel is just stupid. We're seeing the same thing with McVay in the NFL. When you're too tied to a single personnel grouping, you can't exploit a defenses weaknesses week to week and it's too easy to figure you out.  Hell, even McVay has mixed up his personnel quite a bit more in response and their offense is improving . I was hopeful when we heard stuff about the 2 back sets in the offseason that Herman would do this, but he hasn't and we're basically just relying on Sam to be super human each week, which is a completely unfair standard to require of him.  Herman needs to spend all bye week and next offseason studying guys like Kyle Shanahan and Matt LaFleur. You don't have to run a ton of different concepts. If you run the same concepts out of a bunch of different looks, then it gives the illusoin of complexity while keeping things simple for your offensive personnel. 
On both offense and defense, teams have our systems figured out. They know our keys/reads and how we'll react and are exploiting both sides of the ball accordingly. The lack of response from both sides of the ball is pretty unbelievable actually. I knew Herman was stubborn, but to see the complete absence of any kind of response to teams figuring us out is still pretty shocking to me. 
Special Teams has been absolutely pathetic. Calling fair catch and actually catching it would probably have us net about an extra 300 yards on the season. I have no clue how any ST unit, even with terrible coaching, could be this bad. Shit is fucked, and ST is probably the most obvious sign of how terribly coached this entire team is. I still can't believe how far this team has fallen in such a short amount of time. It doesn't even seem possible.
The only real fixes for either side will come with a new DC, and possibly OC (if Herman were to let that OC have any meaningful say in the offense), or at least Herman spending all offseason making real changes to his offense. We'll have the personnel to run 21, 11, 12, and plenty of other variations next season, so there will be absolutely no excuse to come out and run all 11 personnel next year, but that's what I'm expecting until the coaching staff can show otherwise.


I’d co-sign that email
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17 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

not sure if we tried 4 wide/empty backfield once yesterday. 
 

stop doubling down on “ball control” to help the D. You need to be in a Texas Texh mode starting the game knowing you need to score 50. 
 

the lack of urgency on offense in the second half was disturbing. 

We did in first half 3rd and goal, we threw what was supposed to be a fade, but the pass was on a line instead of thrown “up” so it was easily defended. 

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Offense had a bad game (against the top D in the Big 12) but let's not overreact there. They've put up points all year and will bounce back. Main issue is limiting the turnovers - without those we win this game and win easily vs Kansas. OLine is the main area of season-long problems.

Defense will be helped with the guys coming back from injury but there are serious coaching issues there. Goes without saying but the pass defense is atrocious, especially on 3rd and long. Yes, the corners are young and inexperienced so we should've expected growing pains, but it shouldn't be this bad. The penalties are also killer and reflect poor coaching. I mean how many drives this year have been extended by dumb penalties that have no impact on the play?

Put Jamison at punt return. He was solid last year and Smith/Jones are doing more harm than good.

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I still can't believe how far this team has fallen in such a short amount of time. It doesn't even seem possible.


If someone paid our coaches to bomb the season, with the one condition that they not make it too obvious they're doing so, they would have called to say the act has gone a bit overboard at this point.

It's hard to imagine any part of our team looking worse than it does right now.

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TCU was the perfect time to simplify the D and take advantage of a less than stellar Frosh QB.  instead we shit the bed and let him throw and run all over us.  this and KU were damning on TO and his ability to coach when things aren't perfect.    there is no way he should survive if Herman wants to win championships.  he's a high G5/lower P5 DC.

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not sure if we tried 4 wide/empty backfield once yesterday. 
 
stop doubling down on “ball control” to help the D. You need to be in a Texas Texh mode starting the game knowing you need to score 50. 
 
the lack of urgency on offense in the second half was disturbing. 

Usually it’s on a short yardage situation and they think they’re fooling someone. No, Sams gonna hesitate for a second and run to his right. Every once in a while it’s a slant to Duvernay.
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yesterday I saw 4 man fronts with Ossai having a hand down .. they got no pressure on those plays.  Not sure how much of this is a teaching issue rather than a talent issue up front, Coburn was rated high in 2018 and does it show.  Roach, Graham, Bimage?  They are solid but nothing special so far.  

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2 hours ago, Burt Macklin said:

I'll just start this by saying I don't expect anything to get fixed, because if the coaches were going to fix the same issues we've seen pop up week after week, then they already would have. If Herman fired Orlando right now and gave the interim DC (probably Ash) two weeks to install a new, simplified scheme, then our defense could take a massive step forward to below average for the rest of the season, but he probably won't.

On offense, I've been talking about this since the offseason, but playing basically 100% 11 personnel is just stupid. We're seeing the same thing with McVay in the NFL. When you're too tied to a single personnel grouping, you can't exploit a defenses weaknesses week to week and it's too easy to figure you out.  Hell, even McVay has mixed up his personnel quite a bit more in response and their offense is improving . I was hopeful when we heard stuff about the 2 back sets in the offseason that Herman would do this, but he hasn't and we're basically just relying on Sam to be super human each week, which is a completely unfair standard to require of him.  Herman needs to spend all bye week and next offseason studying guys like Kyle Shanahan and Matt LaFleur. You don't have to run a ton of different concepts. If you run the same concepts out of a bunch of different looks, then it gives the illusoin of complexity while keeping things simple for your offensive personnel. 

On both offense and defense, teams have our systems figured out. They know our keys/reads and how we'll react and are exploiting both sides of the ball accordingly. The lack of response from both sides of the ball is pretty unbelievable actually. I knew Herman was stubborn, but to see the complete absence of any kind of response to teams figuring us out is still pretty shocking to me. 

Special Teams has been absolutely pathetic. Calling fair catch and actually catching it would probably have us net about an extra 300 yards on the season. I have no clue how any ST unit, even with terrible coaching, could be this bad. Shit is fucked, and ST is probably the most obvious sign of how terribly coached this entire team is. I still can't believe how far this team has fallen in such a short amount of time. It doesn't even seem possible.

The only real fixes for either side will come with a new DC, and possibly OC (if Herman were to let that OC have any meaningful say in the offense), or at least Herman spending all offseason making real changes to his offense. We'll have the personnel to run 21, 11, 12, and plenty of other variations next season, so there will be absolutely no excuse to come out and run all 11 personnel next year, but that's what I'm expecting until the coaching staff can show otherwise.

Is splitting out TE even worth it? I feel like it ruins the empty backfield set. 

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9 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

not sure if we tried 4 wide/empty backfield once yesterday. 
 

stop doubling down on “ball control” to help the D. You need to be in a Texas Texh mode starting the game knowing you need to score 50. 
 

the lack of urgency on offense in the second half was disturbing. 

Tempo and Sam's legs stir our offensive drink, but Coach Runny Eggs is trying to protect his defense by playing Big 10 offense.

His insistence on "complimentary offense" tells me that he still doesn't fully comprehend the kind of conference that we're in, and that great offense and so, so defense usually wins the day over slow ass offense protecting an atrocious defense that managed to be so, so for 3 quarters.

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I'm seriously struggling to read some of these posts in various threads with regards to the offense. I make a thread (albeit a little early to drive home the main points) about how basic, unimaginative, and pass centric this offense is and I get bashed by Surly football gurus citing various stats-- namely, TOP 10 OFFENSE!!1

The signs were there against WVU, but hardly anyone looked at it concerned. ou? "Defense sucks and the gameplan was off... still only lost by 7." KU, through 1 half, 21 points. End the game with 50 points (48 offensively) and 600yrds of offense. No worries, slow start, right? Why is it that it took the same amount of points scored against frog as ou for people to start to admit there's a problem? Were people seriously not thinking that Patterson would not have a great gameplan for this shit of an excuse for an offense?

I get the mob mentality on this board but I get amazed at some of the posters who, otherwise I would consider reasonable and intelligent, turn blinders on and compete homers when they start harping on something. 

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3 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

 I make a thread (albeit a little early to drive home the main points) about how basic, unimaginative, and pass centric this offense is and I get bashed by Surly football gurus citing various stats-- namely, TOP 10 OFFENSE!!1.  I get the mob mentality on this board but I get amazed at some of the posters who, otherwise I would consider reasonable and intelligent, turn blinders on and compete homers when they start harping on something. 

 

 

Just a tip... complain less about other Surly posters.

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No More Damn Excuses -- Herman has to put together a better more experienced staff...

  • TCU won all 3 phases of the game.
  • Texas offense only getting 3 points on 3 first half drives that started inside TCU territory was horrible. 
  • Sam Ehlinger reverted to thinking every throw had to be downfield - very few check downs and Sam didn't take the easy runs often enough. 
  • Giving up 3 points on the final drive of 2nd quarter that started inside TCU 10yd line -- Stupid.
  • Orlando's constant predictable blitzing that rarely works and leaves inexperienced safeties exposed is inexcusable.
  • Not containing TCU's QB run game is laughable.
  • Herman declining a holding penalty to leave TCU a 3rd and 11 situation that TCU then converted also seemed like a dumb decision with TCU around their 20yd line. 
  • The Horns offense not being able to put together any long 2nd half drives also kept their defense on the field way too long. 
  • Not sure why Texas couldn't run the ball in the 2nd Half, nor why Roshon was given so few carries. 
  • First and goal from the 6yd line and not 1 running play -- wtf Mensa!!

Listening to Herman state how good TCU's defense was after the game was disgusting.  Talking about their senior DBs like they were all-pro, C'MON MAN!  The TCU DBs were running routes for Texas WRs because the offense is too Damn predictable.  The lack of adjustments from this Horns coaching staff is a JOKE!!  

Mensa is Fatterson's Bitch!!

Venting is Fun... 😀  

 

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9 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

I don’t get the fascination with chizik.

I don't either since he isn't very good at all.

'05 defense was a result of Tomey and Robinson.

Chizik's coaching prowess was on display recently when Baylor scored 1000 points against UNC in the Russell Bowl with 0 quarterbacks.

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1 hour ago, LTtxfan said:

Just a tip... complain less about other Surly posters.

Bitch please. See what happens when you throw out a take that's unpopular but seems to be proving right.

Then a week later, I'll start a thread with the same shit and tell you hush when you show up confused. 

This team is difficult to watch and even more so when you realize the glaring problems. So I come to a message board to bitch about it with others who share in my fandom. Sue me. 

P.S. I'll give you just a tip...

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