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2020 astros offseason


elfenix

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10 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

I concede the point.  And you are probably right.  The Astros are looking at something more serious than the Red Sox in form of punishment.  But that has more to do with the fact that the Taubman situation focused Sauron’s eye on the Astros and made them open to any and all scrutiny.  Yeah, “everybody does it”, but the Astros got caught because they made some stupid PR moves and pissed off the wrong people.  

this is 100% true.  

Edited by pepper brooks
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Also included in that Commish statement:

Quote

"In assessing the significance of this violation, the investigation established three relevant points. First, the violation in question occurred without the knowledge of ownership or front office personnel. Second, when the Red Sox learned of the Yankees' complaint, they immediately halted the conduct in question and then cooperated completely in my investigation.

Based on past behavior, I'm guessing the Astros won't get the benefit of either of those.

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Astros Executive Asked Scouts for Help Stealing Signs and Suggested Using Cameras, Email Shows

By Ken Rosenthal and Evan Drellich 

 

An Astros front-office executive wrote about the team’s desire to steal signs in an August 2017 email that was obtained by The Athletic. As the club discussed its advance scouting plans ahead of the playoffs, the executive asked the team’s scouts to pursue sign stealing from the stands, and suggested cameras could be used to do so.

“One thing in specific we are looking for is picking up signs coming out of the dugout,” the email’s sender wrote in a message from August of 2017. “What we are looking for is how much we can see, how we would log things, if we need cameras/binoculars, etc. So go to game, see what you can (or can’t) do and report back your findings.”

The email was sent to multiple people and provided to The Athletic on the condition that both its sender and recipients remain unnamed.

Major League Baseball declined to comment on the legality of scouts using cameras, which would require a public interpretation of a broadly written rule from 2017 that is applicable to an ongoing investigation. The rule prohibited electronic equipment from being used “for the purpose of stealing signs or conveying information designed to give a Club an advantage.”

The Astros declined to comment.

The email at least reflects the mindset of the team’s front office in 2017, when another sign-stealing effort was already underway.  Last week, The Athletic published a story detailing a scheme the Astros used involving a center-field camera at Minute Maid Park that was fixed on the catcher signs.

Scouts discussed sign stealing with the executive outside of email as well, on phone calls and in a group Slack channel. Multiple Astros scouts said they were appalled by the possibility they would be asked to use a camera — and said that some scouts indeed voiced as much to management. Another scout noted a generally confounded feeling amongst the group by the overall request.

“Nobody wanted to do that, and take a chance of getting caught and ruining their reputation, not only as a scout but then even further damage what the Astros had going,” one person directly involved in the conversations said.

What Astros’ management did with any information learned through the project, or how they intended it to evolve, is unclear.

“It just goes to the story, for 2017, we were asked to electronically cheat in the playoffs,” one scout said of the long-term intent as he perceived it.

MLB rules made it permissible then and today for scouts to steal signs in the stands — so long as the signs are not being communicated during that same game, and so long as those signs are stolen with one’s own eyes or binoculars, a source familiar with the rules said.

The potential use of the camera, however, could have been a rule violation in 2017.

The rule is written broadly. But that does not mean commissioner Rob Manfred would necessarily interpret its application the same across usages. For instance, were the Astros intending to review the footage only after the game — and not use the footage during the game to signal signs in realtime — it’s possible Manfred would see a grey area in the rule as written then. Or, he could see a blanket clause rendering the use of the camera illegal. The rules have been updated since that year.

A longtime scout outside of the Astros organization said that, across the sport, asking advance scouts to attempt to track signs is not uncommon. A general manager confirmed the same. But the potential use of a camera stood out to both.

“That’s (b.s.),” the scout outside the organization said. “When you start bringing in help, that’s when it crosses the line and is unacceptable. … Other guys would call them out. If you’re sitting there with a camera trying to steal signs and somebody saw it, you get ratted out quickly.”

Said another scout unaffiliated with the Astros: “There’s a gray area. But I think cameras are past the line. It’s cheating, basically. I don’t know if it’s ‘cheating-cheating.’ But it’s over the line.”

During the 2018 playoffs, the Indians and Red Sox separately discovered a person connected to the Astros named Kyle McLaughlin taking pictures near the dugout. MLB investigated and said it found no wrongdoing.

The Astros’ front office will be looked at closely as MLB investigates the center-field camera system the team used to steal pitchers’ signs during the 2017 season.

“Obviously, following the rules is crucial to the competition on the field; any time there’s this sort of allegation, we take it very seriously,” commissioner Rob Manfred told Yahoo Finance at the Paley International Council Summit on Thursday. “We’re in the midst of gathering the facts. We want to make sure we understand everything that went on, who was involved, how far up in the organization it went. And at that point in time, we’ll make a decision as to what, if any, discipline is appropriate.”

When a team was last publicly disciplined for a sign-stealing effort, in 2017, Manfred’s statement explaining punishment for the Red Sox began by pointing out the violation “occurred without the knowledge of ownership or front office personnel.”

Edited by Seasick Sailor
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1 hour ago, tx 3 putt said:

Just a reminder, the Astros have high speed cameras all over the stadium for the pitching staff. I thought I read somewhere 70 of these cameras. Same for their minor league parks 

I thought I read in the MVP Machine that the organization bought 70.  Not all of them are in Minute Maid, and IIRC, it didn't break down the location of them.

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The high speed Edgertronic cameras talked about in the MVP Machine take 1000 frames per second.  They're primarily used to see how the pitcher's fingers come off the ball and impart spin.  You wouldn't need those to steal signs although I guess that could be a cover.  The Edgertronics should only be filming the pitcher.

https://www.mlb.com/news/rapsodo-and-edgertronic-are-changing-baseball

 

Edited by WBT
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Jomboy makes his cash from Yankee fan views of his videos.  They have an insatiable appetite for anything that explains why Yankee magic keeps failing against the Astros.  It just so happens that this is an issue that a lot more baseball fans have an interest in at the moment.  He has a lot of experience “analyzing” MLB video.  He is uniquely positioned for this situation.   It’s a gold mine for him.  
 

He’ll probably never have anything else like this in his “career”, so I don’t begrudge him trying to milk it for everything he can get.   

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28 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

Jomboy makes his cash from Yankee fan views of his videos.  They have an insatiable appetite for anything that explains why Yankee magic keeps failing against the Astros.  It just so happens that this is an issue that a lot more baseball fans have an interest in at the moment.  He has a lot of experience “analyzing” MLB video.  He is uniquely positioned for this situation.   It’s a gold mine for him.  
 

He’ll probably never have anything else like this in his “career”, so I don’t begrudge him trying to milk it for everything he can get.   

Never go full Liucci, Jomboy.

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I brought this up in the MLB thread, but I find it interesting that the only players to speak out about this have been pitchers. The hitters across the league have been mysteriously silent. And then today, in the middle of one of Jomboy’s Randolph Duke-ian rants, Michael Morse chimes in with some common sense:



I don’t think hitters want this investigated across the league.
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2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Some people realize this isn't the end of the world and that the pearl clutching is a little overwrought. 

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/11/the-houston-astros-cheating-scandal-is-fun.html#comments

 

It's not the end, I agree.

The Astros are still sacks of giant shit, though. 

Shame on them.

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ARLINGTON, Texas -- Major League Baseball commissioner Rob Manfred said he believes the sign-stealing scandal that has engulfed the sport involves only the Houston Astros and that he can mete out discipline beyond the standard fine and draft pick penalties if necessary.

Speaking as the owners meetings began Tuesday, Manfred called the allegations of technology-driven sign-stealing by the Astros "the most serious matter." He said "it relates to the integrity of the sport" and promised "a really, really thorough investigation."

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Now we tried to use buzzers attached to players. If its proven astros cheated this blatantly then itll be severe punishment. Strongly believe more teams have done sign stealing with technology than what manfred would like to believe. Astros will be made a scapegoat. Cause we arent NY, LA or Bos. Proves how hard it is to actually hit a major league pitcher. Hitters may have known whats coming and still werent hitting over 350.

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7 minutes ago, Jshep34 said:

Now we tried to use buzzers attached to players. If its proven astros cheated this blatantly then itll be severe punishment. Strongly believe more teams have done sign stealing with technology than what manfred would like to believe. Astros will be made a scapegoat. Cause we arent NY, LA or Bos. Proves how hard it is to actually hit a major league pitcher. Hitters may have known whats coming and still werent hitting over 350.

The only severe punishment that matters is taking away a championship.

That's not going to happen, so play ball.

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10 minutes ago, Jshep34 said:

Now we tried to use buzzers attached to players. If its proven astros cheated this blatantly then itll be severe punishment. Strongly believe more teams have done sign stealing with technology than what manfred would like to believe. Astros will be made a scapegoat. Cause we arent NY, LA or Bos. Proves how hard it is to actually hit a major league pitcher. Hitters may have known whats coming and still werent hitting over 350.

Jomboy's buzzer theory ended up being a MLB authentication sticker. 

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