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2020 astros offseason

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Banner wont be taken down but have fear of huge fine and draft picks taken away. Thatll put our window closing after 2021. Hope im wrong

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24 minutes ago, Jshep34 said:

Banner wont be taken down but have fear of huge fine and draft picks taken away. Thatll put our window closing after 2021. Hope im wrong

I don't expect baseball to be played in 2021 anyway. I think the CBA re-negotiation will lead to a very long work stoppage.

2020 or bust!!!

 

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I don't expect baseball to be played in 2021 anyway. I think the CBA re-negotiation will lead to a very long work stoppage.
2020 or bust!!!
 
Very true. Years of service is going to be the huge fight this time

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1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

The only severe punishment that matters is taking away a championship.

That's not going to happen, so play ball.

What if they took away the Astros International signing $$ for 3-5 years.   That would be pretty devastating 

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Manfred can do whatever, but then once it becomes apparent that other teams cheated, then they should get the exact same punishment.

 

Because if we did it, others did also.

 

 

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I am not advocating that this happen, but if the sign stealing using tech was truly rampant around the league, I wonder if any current Astros would narc on their former clubs a la Fiers. Hell, Luhnow could probably convince the right player to...

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3 hours ago, runthebone said:

Manfred can do whatever, but then once it becomes apparent that other teams cheated, then they should get the exact same punishment.

 

Because if we did it, others did also.

 

 

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Nothing will happen to the others.  Unfortunately the writing is on the wall.  The Astros aren't the Yankees or the Red Sox, or even the Dodgers.  The Yankees could shoot down an opposing team's plane during the World Series and nothing would happen.  Remember how A&M violated NCAA rules with reckless abandon and got a slap on the wrist while SMU got the death penalty for lesser infractions? That's not even including schools like Miami and OU who basically bought mansions for players' moms while the players themselves were on work release from prison for domestic violence.

We are about to be SMU.  The example that tells the Yankees and Red Sox to pretty please cut it out too.

Edited by FondrenRoad

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1 hour ago, FondrenRoad said:

Nothing will happen to the others.  Unfortunately the writing is on the wall.  The Astros aren't the Yankees or the Red Sox, or even the Dodgers.  The Yankees could shoot down an opposing team's plane during the World Series and nothing would happen.  Remember how A&M violated NCAA rules with reckless abandon and got a slap on the wrist while SMU got the death penalty for lesser infractions? That's not even including schools like Miami and OU who basically bought mansions for players' moms while the players themselves were on work release from prison for domestic violence.

We are about to be SMU.  The example that tells the Yankees and Red Sox to pretty please cut it out too.

The commissioner can't do that. The owners won't let him.

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2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The commissioner can't do that. The owners won't let him.

More likely the players union that squashes it, but you're probably right. If it's widespread, and it probably is, it will just be a stern league wide warning and the Astros will lose a draft pick or two that they can live without anyway. 

Or maybe here come the Tennessee Astros. 

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This just sucks all around. From a fan’s perspective, I don’t care as much about the sign stealing because it’s obvious that it’s fairly widespread. Why do you think everyone has been silent about it until Fiers went on record to seemingly punish an arrogant front office (my speculation on his motivation)?

What really sucks is how the whole Osuna and Taubman fiasco shows the real lack of integrity in our front office. We deserve to get punished disproportionately over the sign stealing, because it’s clear we have leadership who lacks basic human decency. The handling of the Taubman incident and the culture that allowed someone like that to rise to the top is beyond problematic. To prove the point, I know for a fact that the guy who hired Taubman (no longer with the Astros or in baseball, I believe) thinks he did nothing wrong and is getting railroaded. Unfuckingbelievable. 
 

Doesn’t make me love our players any less, but it makes me respect the logo a bit less. And that blows. 

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7 minutes ago, Planet Houston said:

This just sucks all around. From a fan’s perspective, I don’t care as much about the sign stealing because it’s obvious that it’s fairly widespread. Why do you think everyone has been silent about it until Fiers went on record to seemingly punish an arrogant front office (my speculation on his motivation)?

What really sucks is how the whole Osuna and Taubman fiasco shows the real lack of integrity in our front office. We deserve to get punished disproportionately over the sign stealing, because it’s clear we have leadership who lacks basic human decency. The handling of the Taubman incident and the culture that allowed someone like that to rise to the top is beyond problematic. To prove the point, I know for a fact that the guy who hired Taubman (no longer with the Astros or in baseball, I believe) thinks he did nothing wrong and is getting railroaded. Unfuckingbelievable. 
 

Doesn’t make me love our players any less, but it makes me respect the logo a bit less. And that blows. 

If I weren't a lifelong fan, I would hate our organization from top to bottom. The only reason I care about the team as much as I do is 100% childhood nostalgia.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Planet Houston said:

This just sucks all around. From a fan’s perspective, I don’t care as much about the sign stealing because it’s obvious that it’s fairly widespread. Why do you think everyone has been silent about it until Fiers went on record to seemingly punish an arrogant front office (my speculation on his motivation)?

What really sucks is how the whole Osuna and Taubman fiasco shows the real lack of integrity in our front office. We deserve to get punished disproportionately over the sign stealing, because it’s clear we have leadership who lacks basic human decency. The handling of the Taubman incident and the culture that allowed someone like that to rise to the top is beyond problematic. To prove the point, I know for a fact that the guy who hired Taubman (no longer with the Astros or in baseball, I believe) thinks he did nothing wrong and is getting railroaded. Unfuckingbelievable. 
 

Doesn’t make me love our players any less, but it makes me respect the logo a bit less. And that blows. 

You have it both right and wrong.  Your Astros homerism is making you judge the Astros more harshly than other teams.  The sports media has also been out to get the Astros because they are an upstart.  But the Astros aren't unique at all.   Personally, I never wanted Osuna on the team.  Both when he first came on last year and now.  He could have actually pitched well in the World Series and I would have said the same thing.  I'd be happy if he was cut tonight even.

But the other side of the evil Astros story is that Aroldis Chapman choked and pulled a gun on his girlfriend and fired multiple shots to threaten her.  He was acquired by the Yankees in the midst of it.  They traded him and got him back, and he was still outright celebrated by Fox Sports during the ALCS. A guy that choked and fired shots at his girlfriend.  I don't recall even a single negative tweet about the Yankees for it.  But I'll say it.  The Yankees suck for Chapman and the Astros suck for Osuna.  There does need to be a league wide concerted effort though.  You can't let the league's premier team get away with it if you don't want teams like the Astros to get away with it as well.

The Astros handled the Taubman incident wrong.  They could have just fired him quickly and replaced him with someone almost identical and everyone would be happy.  The real issue is that the front office of every single other organization is made up mostly of entitled white males as well even if they can keep their mouth closed when necessary.  The bigger incident for the Astros is that the team owner replaced Nolan Ryan's son with his own.  But even then we are talking about two sons who were both given a job they didn't deserve because of their father's position.  One nepotism is bigger than another.  But its all nepotism.  Fuck that.

The Astros have had a microscope on them since the rebuild as they have become MLB's model franchise, but the issues that have been uncovered by that microscope aren't really the Astros' alone.  They are all of baseball.  And it is a huge problem.

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13 hours ago, Jshep34 said:

Banner wont be taken down but have fear of huge fine and draft picks taken away. Thatll put our window closing after 2021. Hope im wrong

I hope I’m wrong but I got a bad feeling it closed this year. Things lined up perfectly and we still couldn’t get it done. Now we have to try again without Cole. 

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2 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

I hope I’m wrong but I got a bad feeling it closed this year. Things lined up perfectly and we still couldn’t get it done. Now we have to try again without Cole. 

This year was as good a shot as they’ll ever have, I agree, but that doesn’t mean the window is closed. This team was probably better than the ‘17 team, for example. Playoff series are damn near coin flips, especially when you get to LCS and WS. 
 

they probably won’t have teams as good as the ‘19 team going forward, but as long as they’ve got teams that can get into the postseason, the window will be open. 

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8 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

You have it both right and wrong.  Your Astros homerism is making you judge the Astros more harshly than other teams.  The sports media has also been out to get the Astros because they are an upstart. 

Do you really believe this?  The Golden State Warriors were an upstart not too long ago, and the media not only didn't go after them for some reason, but wrote thousands of fawning stories about them.  You can apply Occam's Razor to this situation pretty easily -- how many franchises in any sport have accused a member of the media of fabricating a story that turned out to be completely true?  The old adage was "Never pick a fight with someone who buys printer's ink by the barrel" -- adjust that for the internet, and it's exactly the rule that the Astros organization broke that has them in so much trouble right now.  

The Astros could make this go away more quickly by cleaning out their front office, starting with Luhnow.  Would that be worth it to make this go away?

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11 hours ago, Planet Houston said:

This just sucks all around. From a fan’s perspective, I don’t care as much about the sign stealing because it’s obvious that it’s fairly widespread. Why do you think everyone has been silent about it until Fiers went on record to seemingly punish an arrogant front office (my speculation on his motivation)?

What really sucks is how the whole Osuna and Taubman fiasco shows the real lack of integrity in our front office. We deserve to get punished disproportionately over the sign stealing, because it’s clear we have leadership who lacks basic human decency. The handling of the Taubman incident and the culture that allowed someone like that to rise to the top is beyond problematic. To prove the point, I know for a fact that the guy who hired Taubman (no longer with the Astros or in baseball, I believe) thinks he did nothing wrong and is getting railroaded. Unfuckingbelievable. 
 

Doesn’t make me love our players any less, but it makes me respect the logo a bit less. And that blows. 

the front office has a win at all costs mind set above anything else.  this is a zero sum game for them.  Doesn't make them bad people away from baseball, but makes them highly competitive, edge seeking, rule bending, and somewhat arrogant within the confines of their jobs.  I don't think what Taubman did was a fireable offense either.  I think what he did was stupid, but getting fired over someone not liking your words is a bit of a stretch for me.  the astors handled that poorly from the jump.  no question.  

This sign stealing thing is bad.  on the one hand it's something on another level that could potentially get people banned from baseball.  on the other hand, there are likely guys now managing the Mets and Red Sox who would also need the ban hammer, and that isn't happening.  The Astros are going to be punished, and it is going to be harsh.  

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5 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

I hope I’m wrong but I got a bad feeling it closed this year. Things lined up perfectly and we still couldn’t get it done. Now we have to try again without Cole. 

I think the window is still cracked open.  It is easy to believe the window is closed because the team is not going to be as good going forward as the 2019 version.  they did't get it done, but the 2017 team did and they were not as good as the 2019 team.  Let's see how it all plays out.  They're still the favorite in the west.  

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50 minutes ago, pepper brooks said:

I don't think what Taubman did was a fireable offense either. 

You don't think lying to your boss and making the entire organization look bad when they stick up for your lie is a fireable offense?

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51 minutes ago, pepper brooks said:

the front office has a win at all costs mind set above anything else.  this is a zero sum game for them.  Doesn't make them bad people away from baseball, but makes them highly competitive, edge seeking, rule bending, and somewhat arrogant within the confines of their jobs.  I don't think what Taubman did was a fireable offense either.  I think what he did was stupid, but getting fired over someone not liking your words is a bit of a stretch for me.  the astors handled that poorly from the jump.  no question.  

This sign stealing thing is bad.  on the one hand it's something on another level that could potentially get people banned from baseball.  on the other hand, there are likely guys now managing the Mets and Red Sox who would also need the ban hammer, and that isn't happening.  The Astros are going to be punished, and it is going to be harsh.  

Define harsh.

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Ive been speaking to some current and former employees, the one thing they have all said. The work environment is super toxic and cut throat.
Dont like the idea of promoting nepotism. It doesnt work.

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4 minutes ago, Jshep34 said:

Ive been speaking to some current and former employees, the one thing they have all said. The work environment is super toxic and cut throat.
Dont like the idea of promoting nepotism. It doesnt work.

not sure I would do so far as to say, "toxic".  it is most certainly geared towards "winning" at all costs, and many are trying to one up their colleagues in order to move up, out, and onto bigger things.  It is similar to what you'd find at any I-bank or consulting firm.  most front office people get that and know the game.  current and former players likely do not get that aspect of work culture.  I am not saying it's the best culture either, just saying, most there know what to expect.  

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32 minutes ago, Jshep34 said:

Ive been speaking to some current and former employees, the one thing they have all said. The work environment is super toxic and cut throat.
Dont like the idea of promoting nepotism. It doesnt work.

Sounds like Enron when I worked there. Wouldn't be surprised to hear that co workers give bad reviews of each other to get ahead. Also sounds a lot like the culture that Crane had at his shipping company before he bought the team. Culture is set from the owner on down.

Edited by HtownHorn

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I don't believe the window's closed at all.  Brantley and Yuli are into their mid-thirties, but as they get old, Yordan and Tucker will mature.  The rest of the core (Altuve, Springer, Bregman, Correa) are in their primes.

We get LMJ back and Whitley is coming soon.

Yeah, we lost Cole, but this team has signed a huge free agent pitcher three years in a row.  Why wouldn't we do it again in '20?

I still think we're entering year 4 of an 8 to 10 year run that will yield 3+ championships.  And I refuse to listen to any logic that says otherwise.

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3 hours ago, Jshep34 said:

Dont like the idea of promoting nepotism. It doesnt work.

As long as nepotism is confined to the business side and not baseball ops, it doesn't really make a shit.  Reid Ryan having his job through nepotism wasn't exactly holding us back.

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1 hour ago, TexArcher said:

I don't believe the window's closed at all.  Brantley and Yuli are into their mid-thirties, but as they get old, Yordan and Tucker will mature.  The rest of the core (Altuve, Springer, Bregman, Correa) are in their primes.

We get LMJ back and Whitley is coming soon.

Yeah, we lost Cole, but this team has signed a huge free agent pitcher three years in a row.  Why wouldn't we do it again in '20?

I still think we're entering year 4 of an 8 to 10 year run that will yield 3+ championships.  And I refuse to listen to any logic that says otherwise.

brother?

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7 hours ago, WBT said:

As long as nepotism is confined to the business side and not baseball ops, it doesn't really make a shit.  Reid Ryan having his job through nepotism wasn't exactly holding us back.

I'm more concerned about Reid Ryan getting reassigned after 2020 than the sign stealing mess.

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1 hour ago, mycox said:

I'm more concerned about Reid Ryan getting reassigned after 2020 than the sign stealing mess.

yes, im worried that the new guy will further fuck up $1 hot dog night 

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Reid Ryan had nothing to do with baseball operations.  His being gone effects nothing.  I don’t know how to convince people of that.

For some real baseball talk, I read a rumor yesterday that the angels will try to sign Cole and Wheeler.

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Reid Ryan isn't responsible operations, but he fixed everything Drayton Mclane and others screwed up as far as fan experience goes. 

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12 hours ago, kevwun said:

Reid Ryan had nothing to do with baseball operations.  His being gone effects nothing.  I don’t know how to convince people of that.

For some real baseball talk, I read a rumor yesterday that the angels will try to sign Cole and Wheeler.

he was my ticket hookup.

Little Women La Reaction GIF by Lifetime

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