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Hugo Stiglitz

The Roger Stone Trial

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A far more accurate picture would have the GOP hammering at the pillars and the Democratic Party trying to tape it together while religious right/trumpkins/tea party cheer as Russians hand Trump dynamite to blow the whole thing up, collateral damage and all.

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I am so exhausted of this neverending timeline:

*Misrepresent a situation to create outrage*

*Do the exact same thing (or worse!) that you manufactured outrage for previously*

*Say it is okay because the other guys did it*

Edited by Chuckie Finster

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2 hours ago, Chad Fuck said:

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Who would have thought the weakling DEMS would be our fading last hope.

If Trump is re elected, they need to impeach again for the same things.

Banana republic sustained by Idiot World.

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15 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I think Palin may have used it but I really never noticed it used consistently until Trump came along. And I don't recall hearing anyone in the real world parrot it until now. 

i'm fairly certain rush used it a lot

edit: i see this was covered

Edited by elfenix

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This is what happens when an immoral man, with an immoral family is allowed to gradually move the bar, over, and over, and over again.  Barr should be impeached and disbarred, but again the GOP loves corruption.  I mean it really, really loves it.  Especially the Ted Cruz/ Mike Pence wrap yourself in the Bible corruption.  

Stone must have some incredibly damning information on Trump to pull this sort of banana Republic bullshit with Barr.

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3 minutes ago, horn4life said:

This is what happens when an immoral man, with an immoral family is allowed to gradually move the bar, over, and over, and over again.  Barr should be impeached and disbarred, but again the GOP loves corruption.  I mean it really, really loves it.  Especially the Ted Cruz/ Mike Pence wrap yourself in the Bible corruption.  

Stone must have some incredibly damning information on Trump to pull this sort of banana Republic bullshit with Barr.

Of course he does.  It's unending musical chairs to the tune of blackmail.  Per Stone's indictment, he was in regular communication with Trump about pending Russian/Wiki stolen email drops to benefit his campaign.  Trump knew the whole time and has never stopped lying about it while the number of his accomplices going to prison continues to increase. 

Stone could bury Trump, hence the corrupt intervention by Trump into DOJ's sentencing of Stone.  But if Stone came clean from his perjury, obstruction, and witness tampering, he would expose himself to worse than for what he is currently convicted.  When you get put away for long enough, at Stone's age, silence and cover-up isn't worth it.  Trump obviously knows this.

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Becoming?

We waited too long. Acting like the Constitution had special magical properties that would keep the status quo in place even while the people charged with enforcing it treated it as toilet paper. But hey stock market has grown, I still have health insurance, a nice car, and went to a nice restaurant last Friday. So why worry about what some morons in DC are doing


What I’ve realized over these last three long years is that the constitution is basically a mutually assured destruction pact.

And now one side has decided to press the big red button and the rest of us are left to try and hide from the boom or press our button.

When the Democrats take the White House and both houses of congress in November (yes, I said when not if because my brain will not allow to even entertain the alternative) it has GOT to be a priority to pass legislation or even amend the constitution if need be to put some serious teeth into punishing future administrations that choose to get all Trumpy.

I’m certainly not smart enough to figure out what that looks like exactly but Trump and McConnell and the rest of the Republicans have shown us that there is literally nothing that can be done to stop those in power to obey the law.

We cannot wait on a long slog through the courts on this.

I’m legitimately terrified of what will be done to this country if Trump remains in power.

I’m a woman in a deeply red state. I still have some privilege because I’m white but my imagination has taken me to some dark places after listening to the Republicans. I can’t even imagine the real fear black and brown and queer and Muslim people must feel.

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6 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

 


What I’ve realized over these last three long years is that the constitution is basically a mutually assured destruction pact.

And now one side has decided to press the big red button and the rest of us are left to try and hide from the boom or press our button.

When the Democrats take the White House and both houses of congress in November (yes, I said when not if because my brain will not allow to even entertain the alternative) it has GOT to be a priority to pass legislation or even amend the constitution if need be to put some serious teeth into punishing future administrations that choose to get all Trumpy.

I’m certainly not smart enough to figure out what that looks like exactly but Trump and McConnell and the rest of the Republicans have shown us that there is literally nothing that can be done to stop those in power to obey the law.

We cannot wait on a long slog through the courts on this.

I’m legitimately terrified of what will be done to this country if Trump remains in power.

I’m a woman in a deeply red state. I still have some privilege because I’m white but my imagination has taken me to some dark places after listening to the Republicans. I can’t even imagine the real fear black and brown and queer and Muslim people must feel.

 

The only way to pass minimal legislation now is through simple majority votes.  Amending the constitution would take a 2/3 vote, which is a pipe dream in the current political climate. 

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Amusingly, I heard Limbaugh describing Stone's crime as merely sending a congratulatory email to J. Sands. Hillary lawyers got him convicted. No word about obstruction, witness tampering, or lying to investigators.

Limbaugh is a shit stain. He chooses to remain so for what little time he has left.

Lee Atwater sent out apologies from his death bed. Too little too late, but at least he showed some remorse.

Not Rush. 

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3 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

 

Alright, which one of you bastards are responsible for this in the comments:

"Nah, I'd have granted it and then dismissed the charges and let the state court in NY try him without a threat of double jeopardy or a presidential pardon to get in the way..."

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Just now, tx 3 putt said:

So the judge can still hand the prison sentence of her choosing ? 

Indeed. It's ultimately the judge's discretion, but if the judge strays far from sentencing guidelines they open themselves to an appeal. In this case, the initial recommendation (pre-barr fuckery) was literally by the book and right in the middle of typical sentencing for his seven felonies, whereas the barr recommendation is significantly below sentencing guidelines.

In any case, the judge can rule as they see fit. It's their job and role within our justice system.

The issue is that the chief executive has an override to any federal judicial criminal ruling, and is apparently himself above the law and untouchable by any sort of oversight or governance.

So it doesn't matter what Judge Jackson rules. If it's a lightened sentence, it'll be used as justification of an unjust prosecution and jury finding (lol). If it's the initial recommendation, it'll be used as justification of an OUT OF CONTROL JUSTICE SYSTEM and god-emperor trump will step in to drain the swamp and set stone free.

I don't think trump would do it during the run up to the election, but if he wins, all bets are off and the judicial system is open for business.

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She needs to hammer Stone (and he richly deserves to be hammered).

And I understand that Trump and Barr will defy the law and subvert her decision, which is a separate issue.  

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3 hours ago, horn4life said:

This is what happens when an immoral man, with an immoral family is allowed to gradually move the bar, over, and over, and over again.  Barr should be impeached and disbarred, but again the GOP loves corruption.  I mean it really, really loves it.  Especially the Ted Cruz/ Mike Pence wrap yourself in the Bible corruption.  

Stone must have some incredibly damning information on Trump to pull this sort of banana Republic bullshit with Barr.

Or he just fucking asked Barr once, and barr wiped his mouth and zipped up Trumps pants and said "You betcha!"

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Although it's yet another disgusting display of Trumpism, the changed recommendation is of no real moment.

Jackson historically applies the guidelines leniently, then chooses from the low end of the range established by the guidelines.

At the very most, the prosecutor's recommendation establishes the upper limit of her sentencing range.  

Given the foofaraw surrounding this, it's just going to have no effect.  If she wants to slam him, she's perfectly capable of doing so without anyone in the government's help.  Same for letting him slide a little.

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isn't Jackson on the short list for the next conservative supreme court seat? I'm sure Barr and Trump are reminding her of that. 

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12 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

isn't Jackson on the short list for the next conservative supreme court seat? I'm sure Barr and Trump are reminding her of that. 

per wiki In May 2017, Jackson dismissed a wrongful death suit filed against Hillary Clinton by the parents of two of the Americans killed in the 2012 attack on the American diplomatic compound in Benghazi, Libya, on the basis of the Westfall Act.

 

this makes her a long time clinton asset !!!!!!!

Edited by tx 3 putt

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23 hours ago, sidis said:

i am genuinely curious if any of the surly dipshit brigade is willing to weigh in on this and perform the requisite mental gymnastics necessary to justify or actively ignore what just happened.  the iowa debacle thread brought them out in droves, where are they?

 

allow me:

 

Benghazi!

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5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Amy Coney Barrett.

she's replacing RBG if it happens under Trump's / McConnell's watch 

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5 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

 



When the Democrats take the White House and both houses of congress in November (yes, I said when not if because my brain will not allow to even entertain the alternative) it has GOT to be a priority to pass legislation or even amend the constitution if need be to put some serious teeth into punishing future administrations that choose to get all Trumpy.

 

 

What legislation could they pass or how could the Constitution be amended to fix this, though?  The rule of law is only as good as the people upholding it.  I don't see how anything gets fixed by changing the law.  It's only going to get fixed by Republicans being kicked out and humiliated.  Which isn't going to happen because we've already had our last free and fair election.  The only thing I'm not sure of is whether our last real election was in 2012 or 2016.

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16 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

What legislation could they pass or how could the Constitution be amended to fix this, though?  The rule of law is only as good as the people upholding it.  I don't see how anything gets fixed by changing the law.  It's only going to get fixed by Republicans being kicked out and humiliated.  Which isn't going to happen because we've already had our last free and fair election.  The only thing I'm not sure of is whether our last real election was in 2012 or 2016.

I tend to agree with this.  Any system of government falls apart under the right "political" circumstances.  Hyper-partisanship and megalomania happen to be the weaknesses of ours.

Or, a more cynical and perhaps accurate view:  when the people are too stupid, selfish, and shortsighted to govern themselves.

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Jury selection in federal criminal cases is much, much more circumscribed than in state court cases, where it can go on for a day or more, with dozens of questions from attorneys.  Most questioning in federal court is done by the judge.  Unless there's an obvious bias or challenge for cause, the first 12-18 are on, baby, on.

Finding a juror without a strong opinion on Trump in DC is probably damn near impossible.  It doesn't disqualify a juror.

If I had to guess that might be the subject of the motion for new trial.

Edited by TwiceHorn

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One amusing thing, the second sentencing memo filed by the government is being circulated among criminal defense lawyers everywhere for argument to ignore the guideline calculation, especially if it's relatively severe.

That’s gotta thrill every AUSA in the country.
I mean, I presume that the distinction is hey, this is a politically connected white guy, so it clearly doesn’t apply to YOUR client.

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What's more interesting to me is that Trump chose to spend this post-acquittal, post Iowa debacle, strong economy capital on Roger fucking Stone.

It's an election year, but instead of hitting on issues that might spin what few undecideds there are left his way, he re-introduces the Roger Stone conviction back into the news cycle, where it will repeat over and over, and will be amplified if/when Manafort kicks the bucket in jail or something similar.

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Roger-Stone-2.jpg

He looks like a bad guy from an Austin powers movie. Took ridiculous looking to get the Bond comparison

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32 minutes ago, SizzleChest said:

What's more interesting to me is that Trump chose to spend this post-acquittal, post Iowa debacle, strong economy capital on Roger fucking Stone.

what good is it being president if you can't help out a friend ??

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2 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Someone remind me...this dude would invite strangers over to ride a train on his wife, right? Or am I thinking of another trump ally already in jail?

Manafort.

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No democratic form of government can withstand one of the major parties failing to act in good faith.  Laws don't matter when lawmakers refuse to follow them.  The Senate was given the power to prevent this.  It was a major concern of Alexander Hamilton, but he never contemplated what would happen if the Senate was a party to the President's wrongdoing.

Edited by kevwun

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From what I can find Limbaugh hasn't even tried to defend this. Is there any precedent at all? Hopefully the judge ignores the DOJ.

 

RUSH: Ah, my friends, this is so much fun to watch. Now, you know that Roger Stone was given a sentence of seven to nine years for bragging about knowing Trump and WikiLeaks and whatever the hell else they think he did. And the Drive-Bys, it’s about all they were gonna get out of the Russia thing is Roger Stone going to jail for seven — that was gonna have to do, that was gonna have to suffice for victory.

Well, they are about to blow a gasket in the Drive-By Media ’cause the DOJ just announced that seven to nine years is excessive and that they’re gonna drastically reduce it. And so CNN’s got a whole panel convened, “Can you believe? This is just not done. The DOJ does not countermand judicial sentences like this. This is more Trump corruption.” They’re driving themselves crazy. Trump is driving them nuts. And I have to tell you, it is entertaining to watch.

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Oh, Roger Stone got 7 to 9 for bragging about knowing Trump? That's interesting, didn't know that. 

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On 2/11/2020 at 11:22 PM, triplehorn said:

 

the most disheartening part of this whole era is that truth has no value for so many Americans caught up in this cult of current personality.

the era where Colbert coined the term "truthiness" seems quaint compared to the era of Conway's "alternative facts"

the calculated destroying/discrediting of truth telling institutions was our first BIG warning sign this country was lurching toward facism - and nearly half of our country cheered it on.

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59 minutes ago, B00M said:

From what I can find Limbaugh hasn't even tried to defend this. Is there any precedent at all? Hopefully the judge ignores the DOJ.

 

 

 

He can’t die soon enough.

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It still amazes me (I know, it shouldn’t) that the EXACT same people who thought a single conversation with Loretta Lynch I’m on the tarmac was scandalously improper and dangerously undermined the rule of law...but the POTUS treating the entire DOJ like his personal law firm, directing them who to take it easy on and such...is awesome and MAGA.

I mean, the exact thing they told us was awful....they cheer a much worse version of.

There are no rules anymore. Do whatever you want - that’s it, that’s the only rule that’s left.

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9 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

It still amazes me (I know, it shouldn’t) that the EXACT same people who thought a single conversation with Loretta Lynch I’m on the tarmac was scandalously improper and dangerously undermined the rule of law...but the POTUS treating the entire DOJ like his personal law firm, directing them who to take it easy on and such...is awesome and MAGA.

I mean, the exact thing they told us was awful....they cheer a much worse version of.

There are no rules anymore. Do whatever you want - that’s it, that’s the only rule that’s left.

It’s scary now but the real scary part comes when he doesn’t just have the DOJ take it easy on his friends but when they start going after his enemies.  Not Trump just blustering but when Barr starts opening cases and jailing people who oppose Trump politically or otherwise like Bernie, Biden, Bezos, etc....then the real problems are upon us.

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