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The Charlie Strong Decision

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20 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

I laugh at anyone that thinks James Franklin is a good coach. How many big games does he have to continue to lose every year before people understand he runs up the score on everyone he can, but chokes when he plays a team without a huge talent discrepancy. 8-14 against ranked teams while at Penn State, average score 25-31.

before Dabo made his first CFP appearance, he was 10-15 ... 10-16 including his partial first season.

 

just sayin

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Well Herman has already lost 16 games at Texas, so by your outstanding rationale...we'll make the College Football Playoffs next year?  

Next year, we'll lose:

@LSU 

v. Oklahoma 

between the road trips to KSU and Texas Tech and hosting Baylor (who does lose a lot of starters), Herman will drop one of those.

OK-State brings back 17 starters next year and we play them in Stillwater, we lose that game for sure.

And the final two home games with TCU and Iowa State, both will lose a lot of starters but I think Herman gets outcoached in one of those.  

So that's 7-5.  I think we get the Alamo Bowl this year, so next year is likely back to the Texas Bowl, maybe Liberty Bowl.  

Let's say he's .500 in Bowl games between this year and next.  That's 21 losses in 4 years.  Not great, Bob.

 

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8 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Well Herman has already lost 16 games at Texas, so by your outstanding rationale...we'll make the College Football Playoffs next year?  

Next year, we'll lose:

@LSU 

v. Oklahoma 

between the road trips to KSU and Texas Tech and hosting Baylor (who does lose a lot of starters), Herman will drop one of those.

OK-State brings back 17 starters next year and we play them in Stillwater, we lose that game for sure.

And the final two home games with TCU and Iowa State, both will lose a lot of starters but I think Herman gets outcoached in one of those.  

So that's 7-5.  I think we get the Alamo Bowl this year, so next year is likely back to the Texas Bowl, maybe Liberty Bowl.  

Let's say he's .500 in Bowl games between this year and next.  That's 21 losses in 4 years.  Not great, Bob.

 

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11 hours ago, Nueces River Rat said:

Ok. The search firm bought the hype too.  

Refresh my memory,  on  the different message boards was Charlie generally hyped up by the fan base?   

Oh yeah, for sure, my comment wasn’t so

much a disagreement with yours but a furtherance. I don’t think too highly of a search firm hire for a huge, highly resourced and desirable workplace like UT athletics. They clearly bought into the hype. 
 

As for the consensus message board fan hype for Charlie, my memory is that fans were pretty excited...until his coordinator hires. Watson more so than Bedford was seen as a comfort hire and a lack of foresight understanding of what was required in the Big 12 (and college football). Nobody was excited about Bedford, either, but we (incorrectly) trusted Charlie to make sure the defense was in good shape. 
 

But that’s just my fallible memory. 

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11 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Divorce records may contain an "allegation" of domestic violence, but unless it was tried and found to be a fact, is likely to be bullshit like most scurrilous allegations in divorce pleadings.

I did see that she was a Morm and he converted.

Gary Patterson is a morm? At Texas Christian? 

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I remember being pissed when I saw the announcement thread on TOS when he was hired and said so. I got a little heat but mostly I got “uhh, why?” and I replied I had no faith in his ability to choose quality coordinators as well as his history of having staff with shady dealings. I also didn’t think he would be popular with TX HS coaches. 
 

after that, I found you just gotta accept shit. Kinda like when your 18y/o daughter comes home and says she’s marrying a 34 yo drummer for a Folk/Rap bad. Shits out of your hands, just crack a beer and prep to pick up the pieces. 

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44 minutes ago, lateshow said:

Gary Patterson is a morm? At Texas Christian? 

I'd guess he "was" a mormon. Gary tells the story that suits him, true or not. Who can forget his "astonishment" when he found out his team had a drug problem?

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1 hour ago, Llewelyn Moss said:

Oh yeah, for sure, my comment wasn’t so

much a disagreement with yours but a furtherance. I don’t think too highly of a search firm hire for a huge, highly resourced and desirable workplace like UT athletics. They clearly bought into the hype. 
 

As for the consensus message board fan hype for Charlie, my memory is that fans were pretty excited...until his coordinator hires. Watson more so than Bedford was seen as a comfort hire and a lack of foresight understanding of what was required in the Big 12 (and college football). Nobody was excited about Bedford, either, but we (incorrectly) trusted Charlie to make sure the defense was in good shape. 
 

But that’s just my fallible memory. 

I think you got it right about fan hype.   Charlie also had the Florida bullet point on his resume as the DC during for those great Florida teams in the 2000's which might have overshadowed any short comings he had a Louisville. Of course his success at Louisville was helped by playing in the Big East.

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I'd guess he "was" a mormon. Gary tells the story that suits him, true or not. Who can forget his "astonishment" when he found out his team had a drug problem?

Problem? That’s a gentle euphemism.

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13 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

My recollection is that there weren't a lot of great choices at the time, certainly no obvious ones.  And,  as noted here, none of the potential choices has exactly set the world on fire.  And there's no evidence they would have duplicated what success they have had (Fleck) elsewhere in Austin.

that's because we waited three years too long to fire mack.

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12 hours ago, softlynow said:

With perfect hindsight, the best non-Saban play would've been to let Mack stay, but mandate he bring in Lincoln Riley (one year before OU did) as OC/HCIW.

That or try to get Dan Mullen, I guess.

 

Keeping Brown on, with a "mandate" that he do something while have an existing mindset that was more than willing to sabotage the program to begin with?

Pass. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

that's because we waited three years too long to fire mack.

I really don't see any coach in the history of American football who could have won much more with what we had: a TE at QB for two years and no offensive line and true freshmen and sophomores all over the field. Mack rode this program hard and put it away wet when he "left."

Does almost all the evidence post-2014 point toward Charlie sucking as a coach? Yes, with the benefit of hindsight, including the last two years.

Did we know any of that when we hired him? Nope.

Would anybody, right up to Belichick, Saban and Meyer, have been able to do much better with no Ash and no OL and a depleted defense after year one of his tenure? Nope. 

But why didn't he get a grad transfer QB after year one of his tenure? Go back and look up who was available and get back to me.

Also, it was generally believed that Heard was the truth, and we were all thankful for a time that Charlie did not burn his shirt in year one. When that didn't work out he brought in Buechele, who I still believe had a lingering rib/shoulder injury after the Cal game. Charlie gambled that he would have time to build a program without quick fixes like a parade of Jucos and transfers, and it didn't work out, even a little bit.

Still, it was Mack who left this mess behind, and it was so thorough and total that Herman is still trying to unfuck it even now.

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On 12/3/2019 at 10:46 AM, Texasrocks said:

Justin Fuente should probably be on the list. His HC experience was similar to Strong's at that point. That was probably too early for PJ Fleck, but he may have just appeared on the radar.

I have to say, I really wanted Gary Andersen at the time. I thought he was going to be a special coach.

I'm still confused about what happened with Andersen. Is he going back to Utah St. or something now?

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53 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

IStill, it was Mack who left this mess behind, and it was so thorough and total that Herman is still trying to unfuck it even now.

It's okay to blame Brown for mailing it in his last 3 years, and then especially for the bullshit he pulled at the end of his tenure and finally for leaving a mess that had to be cleaned up.   

But even I'm not going to put any blame on Brown for the way things are now.  It's been almost 6 years to the day that Briles put a nail in his coffin.    At some point we can leave Brown out of the equation as to why Texas football still sucks.  And that point has passed.   

I think. 

 

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20 minutes ago, Wally Pryor said:

It's okay to blame Brown for mailing it in his last 3 years, and then especially for the bullshit he pulled at the end of his tenure and finally for leaving a mess that had to be cleaned up.   

But even I'm not going to put any blame on Brown for the way things are now.  It's been almost 6 years to the day that Briles put a nail in his coffin.    At some point we can leave Brown out of the equation as to why Texas football still sucks.  And that point has passed.   

I think. 

 

He created a situation that guaranteed another housecleaning would be necessary after he left, and we are still dealing with the aftereffects of that second housecleaning now. And it looks like we are on the way to a third.

We've lost any semblance of being a football program at this point. There is no continuity aside from the name Texas Longhorns and our burnt orange jerseys. We have no working system. Are the new coaches going to instill Herman's philosophies or are we going to start over?

 There are little fires all over the field at multiple position groups. If Sam had gone down this year or does next year, we are looking at scratching and clawing to make a bowl. 

This is all still because Butterteeth would not leave gracefully and in good time.

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24 minutes ago, Wally Pryor said:

And that point has passed.   

I think. 

Sadly, part of what ails Texas is PTSD, for which Mack is largely responsible, and it has not passed.

He's not to blame for a lot of the specific details, of course, but we've got a stink still that has lingered from his time here.

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37 minutes ago, Wally Pryor said:

It's okay to blame Brown for mailing it in his last 3 years, and then especially for the bullshit he pulled at the end of his tenure and finally for leaving a mess that had to be cleaned up.   

But even I'm not going to put any blame on Brown for the way things are now.  It's been almost 6 years to the day that Briles put a nail in his coffin.    At some point we can leave Brown out of the equation as to why Texas football still sucks.  And that point has passed.   

I think. 

 

Mack approved of the Charlie hire.  Charlie called him his best friend in Austin.  

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25 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

He created a situation that guaranteed another housecleaning would be necessary after he left, and we are still dealing with the aftereffects of that second housecleaning now. And it looks like we are on the way to a third.

We've lost any semblance of being a football program at this point. There is no continuity aside from the name Texas Longhorns and our burnt orange jerseys. We have no working system. Are the new coaches going to instill Herman's philosophies or are we going to start over?

 There are little fires all over the field at multiple position groups. If Sam had gone down this year or does next year, we are looking at scratching and clawing to make a bowl. 

This is all still because Butterteeth would not leave gracefully and in good time.

Deal. I am fine with continuing to blame that clown.  Doesn't / didn't take much.  

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On 12/3/2019 at 11:08 AM, TreatyOak said:

Russian-Dating-2.jpg

I think someone figured out a way to make a fortune on recruiting?

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Has anybody ever put the pencil to the paper of how much teddy Bridgewater made for potatoe strong? 20 million? More?

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On 12/3/2019 at 10:55 PM, TwiceHorn said:

I don't recall him being exactly a media darling.  He was doing well at Lville and Bridgewater was getting a lot of deserved hype.  Shaw and Franklin were kind of similar as young/new head coaches, and possibly also because they were black.  Shaw was intextricable from Stanford (thank God, most likely) and Franklin had the "character issues."

Maybe not a media darling, but the prevailing narrative was that poor Charlie was denied by the blue bloods because of his pigmentation.  It was a dubious claim given that he was head coach at a top 25 program after being DC at UF, as if every white coordinator at a MNC school is handed keys to the Ferrari.

Edited by ImissWallyPryor

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Any talk about Texas should of kept Mack is insane. Dude drove the program into the ground.  They just fucked up now twice with the 2 hires afterwards. 

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