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Donald Trump 2020


Francisco 2.0

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14 minutes ago, Pasken said:

Anyone think he’ll tweet some reason why he won’t have to leave office even if senators vote to remove him?

He won't tweet that because he doesn't think that far ahead and he also knows it will never happen. 

In fact, we have a better chance of Zod coming down and deposing Trump than we have of the Senate doing its job. 

And having seen Trump in power, I might be team Zod.  Zod wasn't a dotard at least. 

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I just don't understand how his defenders are able to lie, lie, lie and constantly cover for their lies when the story changes in front of the public, in front of cameras every fucking day and not feel some sort of anxiety or heart-ache. Do these people not have souls? I lie to my wife once about some trivial shit and I start sweating. How is it these sycophants do this literally every day of this monster's presidency and never go into a nervous tick just once? You really have to be an evil person to partake in this level of dishonesty and not even blink. 

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1 hour ago, Bruh Man said:

I just don't understand how his defenders are able to lie, lie, lie and constantly cover for their lies when the story changes in front of the public, in front of cameras every fucking day and not feel some sort of anxiety or heart-ache. Do these people not have souls? I lie to my wife once about some trivial shit and I start sweating. How is it these sycophants do this literally every day of this monster's presidency and never go into a nervous tick just once? You really have to be an evil person to partake in this level of dishonesty and not even blink. 

Perhaps, given that so many of them have been career politicians or corrupt businesspersons since graduation, dishonesty has become a habit? Or they've rationalized that a cover story is preferable to losing power and money? Perhaps with team politics, there would be discomfort in losing that outweighs the discomfort from lying. Those fans that cannot cope when their team loses because it is such a part of their identity that they are afraid this labels themselves as "losers?" That is a fear, that label, and fear drives people to perform some pretty outlandish and/or evil acts. Or maybe it is just that they are the embodiment of the First Lady's jacket and they just don't care. Would severe consequences change them, get them to think about what their lies have done? See: Bakker, Jim circa 2020 Tater Buckets for your answer.

In a different way, do you think that politics has become more and more about "what can I get" and less about "what can I do for the people?" That would seem to attract a different type of personality than the person who sees suffering and wishes to figure out a solution. On social media, you see a broad swath of people who have an account for the 'likes' or attention and people who wish to inform, educate, and empower. And so on.

I took Keller Plan Psychology 101 as part of the core degree plan so I know what I'm talking about. Kidding aside, I agree with you and  I don't understand either, but it seems that the GOP has decided that is the route they wish to take, mobbed up and rule by fiat so here we are.

 

 

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Oh that's good, BC, that's good.

Before I forget, today the President will host the LSU football team at the WH before flying to Florida and Mar-a-Lago. This evening he will join a roundtable of supporters and deliver remarks at a 'joint finance committee' dinner. Is that THE Finance Committee? Is that official business? Conducted at Mar-a-Lago? Axing Medicare over that hamburger? (time for your pic BC)

I have questions, but not much point in asking them anymore.

Sorry @Mapache missed your post. What a bully he is, calling our great warfighters dopes.

Edited by Mrs Whiggins
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57 minutes ago, Mapache said:

Oh shut the fuck up, cadet bone spurs 

That article is shocking.  It puts a finer point on what we all know about Trump -- he's 100% transactional.  He sees everything in dollars and cents.  He has no knowledge of history,.  He doesn't understand the value of our defense and trade agreements, with allies and others.  He holds no respect for our military, from top brass down to the foot soldiers. 

By their very nature, top brass is wholly disinclined to contradict the Commander in Chief, and even if any did so, it wouldn't matter to Trump.  He'd lash out and diminish them as he did at the Pentagon.  I don't think much of Rex Tillerson, but kudos to him for stepping up in support of the military, even though it cost him his job.

That said, the effort to educate the President was clearly going to backfire from the description of the first slide.  You don't teach a 3rd-grader arithmetic by showing him algebra.  It was a massive failure to understand their audience.  At least it exposed Trump for what he is to those officers and high-ranking administrative officials, on the off chance any of them were less than clear about the President.

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39 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

That article is shocking.  It puts a finer point on what we all know about Trump -- he's 100% transactional.  He sees everything in dollars and cents.  He has no knowledge of history,.  He doesn't understand the value of our defense and trade agreements, with allies and others.  He holds no respect for our military, from top brass down to the foot soldiers. 

By their very nature, top brass is wholly disinclined to contradict the Commander in Chief, and even if any did so, it wouldn't matter to Trump.  He'd lash out and diminish them as he did at the Pentagon.  I don't think much of Rex Tillerson, but kudos to him for stepping up in support of the military, even though it cost him his job.

That said, the effort to educate the President was clearly going to backfire from the description of the first slide.  You don't teach a 3rd-grader arithmetic by showing him algebra.  It was a massive failure to understand their audience.  At least it exposed Trump for what he is to those officers and high-ranking administrative officials, on the off chance any of them were less than clear about the President.

"He's a fucking moron."

 

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2 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

I have a sub, and I'm going to post the entire article here, because reasons.  

Yeah, I subscribed a while back, along with the NYT.  Liberal birdcage liners both, but hey.

(Thanks for posting, I didn't have it in me to go through and strip out all but the text.)

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Props to the Longhorn in the room. 

Quote

Others at the table noticed Trump’s stream of venom had taken an emotional toll. So many people in that room had gone to war and risked their lives for their country, and now they were being dressed down by a president who had not. They felt sick to their stomachs. Tillerson told others he thought he saw a woman in the room silently crying. He was furious and decided he couldn’t stand it another minute. His voice broke into Trump’s tirade, this one about trying to make money off U.S. troops.

“No, that’s just wrong,” the secretary of state said. “Mr. President, you’re totally wrong. None of that is true.”

Tillerson’s father and uncle had both been combat veterans, and he was deeply proud of their service.

“The men and women who put on a uniform don’t do it to become soldiers of fortune,” Tillerson said. “That’s not why they put on a uniform and go out and die . . . They do it to protect our freedom.”

There was silence in the Tank. Several military officers in the room were grateful to the secretary of state for defending them when no one else would. The meeting soon ended and Trump walked out, saying goodbye to a group of servicemen lining the corridor as he made his way to his motorcade waiting outside. Mattis, Tillerson, and Cohn were deflated. Standing in the hall with a small cluster of people he trusted, Tillerson finally let down his guard.

“He’s a f---ing moron,” the secretary of state said of the president.

 

Edited by Jive Turkey
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1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Yeah, I subscribed a while back, along with the NYT.  Liberal birdcage liners both, but hey.

(Thanks for posting, I didn't have it in me to go through and strip out all but the text.)

My wife is a fed, and she gets a free sub to the Post.  Otherwise, I wouldn't "have" one myself.  But it does come in handy.

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Any Trumpers want to defend Trump here? Or is it fake news?

This is the core reason why I do not think that those who are successful in business (this excludes Trump mostly) should be in leadership in government. Government is not about turning a profit. Making decisions with that as your main priority will just get Americans killed and lesson our global power. 

Edited by SmokeyTheBear
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We joke about him playing 3D chess, but it occurred to me that I don't think he's ever played it.

An analogy for his view of allies: he outright dismisses the value of a strategically placed pawn protected by a queen. Instead, he'd prefer to use his queen to clear the board by simply going it alone, taking on each opposing piece individually without seeing the whole game.

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4 hours ago, Bruh Man said:

I just don't understand how his defenders are able to lie, lie, lie and constantly cover for their lies when the story changes in front of the public, in front of cameras every fucking day and not feel some sort of anxiety or heart-ache. Do these people not have souls? I lie to my wife once about some trivial shit and I start sweating. How is it these sycophants do this literally every day of this monster's presidency and never go into a nervous tick just once? You really have to be an evil person to partake in this level of dishonesty and not even blink. 

If Trump goes down, he’s taking the GOP with him.  That’s very clear.  He will burn the GOP down, and the voters will finish the job.  
 

Trump is basically the scorpion, and the GOP is the frog swimming with him on their back.   

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11 minutes ago, bolverk said:

An analogy for his view of allies: he outright dismisses the value of a strategically placed pawn protected by a queen. Instead, he'd prefer to use his queen to clear the board by simply going it alone, taking on each opposing piece individually without seeing the whole game.

. . . which is, by definition, a losing strategy.

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5 hours ago, Bruh Man said:

I just don't understand how his defenders are able to lie, lie, lie and constantly cover for their lies when the story changes in front of the public, in front of cameras every fucking day and not feel some sort of anxiety or heart-ache. Do these people not have souls? I lie to my wife once about some trivial shit and I start sweating. How is it these sycophants do this literally every day of this monster's presidency and never go into a nervous tick just once? You really have to be an evil person to partake in this level of dishonesty and not even blink. 

This is what supporters and fanatics do. Here, let's do a test real quick and watch you and other Obama supporters defend him. 

Did you know Obama dropped depleted Uranium on Syrians sentencing generations to cancer, malformed babies etc.? And then apologized for it because we as a nation had decided not to do so after we did that in 2003. This is arguably as bad or worse than anything Trump has ever done. Does that change your opinion of Obama?

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This is what supporters and fanatics do. Here, let's do a test real quick and watch you and other Obama supporters defend him. 
Did you know Obama dropped depleted Uranium on Syrians sentencing generations to cancer, malformed babies etc.? And then apologized for it because we as a nation had decided not to do so after we did that in 2003. This is arguably as bad or worse than anything Trump has ever done. Does that change your opinion of Obama?
But Obama!
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2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

That article is shocking.  It puts a finer point on what we all know about Trump -- he's 100% transactional.  He sees everything in dollars and cents.  He has no knowledge of history,.  He doesn't understand the value of our defense and trade agreements, with allies and others.  He holds no respect for our military, from top brass down to the foot soldiers. 

By their very nature, top brass is wholly disinclined to contradict the Commander in Chief, and even if any did so, it wouldn't matter to Trump.  He'd lash out and diminish them as he did at the Pentagon.  I don't think much of Rex Tillerson, but kudos to him for stepping up in support of the military, even though it cost him his job.

That said, the effort to educate the President was clearly going to backfire from the description of the first slide.  You don't teach a 3rd-grader arithmetic by showing him algebra.  It was a massive failure to understand their audience.  At least it exposed Trump for what he is to those officers and high-ranking administrative officials, on the off chance any of them were less than clear about the President.

The transactional view is very much like his father, from accounts I've read.

@Francisco 2.0 thank you so very much for posting the article, much rep to you.

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24 minutes ago, hornhorn said:

This is what supporters and fanatics do. Here, let's do a test real quick and watch you and other Obama supporters defend him. 

Did you know Obama dropped depleted Uranium on Syrians sentencing generations to cancer, malformed babies etc.? And then apologized for it because we as a nation had decided not to do so after we did that in 2003. This is arguably as bad or worse than anything Trump has ever done. Does that change your opinion of Obama?

 You're a drama queen.

https://www.un.org/disarmament/convarms/more-on-depleted-uranium/

The United Nations Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation (UNSCEAR) continues to review the latest information in scientific literature on the effects on humans of internal exposure due to inhalation or ingestion of uranium, including DU. UNSCEAR has concluded that no clinically significant pathology related to radiation exposure to depleted uranium was found (See A/71/139).

In studies in which the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) was involved, the resulting radiological risk to the public and the environment was not significant in situations where depleted uranium is observed in the form of localized contamination of the environment by small particles resulting from the impacts.

However, in the situations where fragments of, or complete, depleted uranium ammunitions were found, there is a potential risk of radiation effects for individuals who come into direct contact with such fragments or ammunitions.

This risk can be mitigated by national authorities through conducting such simple countermeasures as the collection, storage and disposal of such fragments.

Nevertheless, in a post-conflict environment, the presence of depleted uranium residues can further increase the anxiety of local populations. The results of the radiological assessments conducted by IAEA in cooperation with UNEP and WHO provide the basis for public reassurance.

 

No one lives where those rounds were used.  Should they have been used?  Probably not.  Egregious military and foreign policy blunder as bad as a complete misunderstanding of the Post-WWII military-economic order?  Probably not.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/02/14/the-united-states-used-depleted-uranium-in-syria/

Quote

Video of the second DU run on Nov. 22 destroyed what is described as 283 “Daesh Oil trucks” in the desert between Al-Hasakeh and Deir Ezzor — both capitals of governorates of the same names.

Image result for population density of syria

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9 minutes ago, ryskey said:

 You're a drama queen.

https://www.un.org/disarmament/convarms/more-on-depleted-uranium/

The United Nations Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation (UNSCEAR) continues to review the latest information in scientific literature on the effects on humans of internal exposure due to inhalation or ingestion of uranium, including DU. UNSCEAR has concluded that no clinically significant pathology related to radiation exposure to depleted uranium was found (See A/71/139).

In studies in which the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) was involved, the resulting radiological risk to the public and the environment was not significant in situations where depleted uranium is observed in the form of localized contamination of the environment by small particles resulting from the impacts.

However, in the situations where fragments of, or complete, depleted uranium ammunitions were found, there is a potential risk of radiation effects for individuals who come into direct contact with such fragments or ammunitions.

This risk can be mitigated by national authorities through conducting such simple countermeasures as the collection, storage and disposal of such fragments.

Nevertheless, in a post-conflict environment, the presence of depleted uranium residues can further increase the anxiety of local populations. The results of the radiological assessments conducted by IAEA in cooperation with UNEP and WHO provide the basis for public reassurance.

 

No one lives where those rounds were used.  Should they have been used?  Probably not.  Egregious military and foreign policy blunder as bad as a complete misunderstanding of the Post-WWII military-economic order?

https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/02/14/the-united-states-used-depleted-uranium-in-syria/

Image result for population density of syria

Like I said, watch them cover their ears and eyes and defend their cult hero. Whoever it may be, Trump or Obama. Isn't it why we dropped it, because its uh harmless. 

Whether or not DU causes cancer is a popular question in the public media and controversial in the scientific literature. While the radioactivity of DU is low, it is not absent. It has been pointed out [41] that if even a little as 1−2% of the 300 tons of DU used in the Gulf War were converted to respirable dust it would produce three to six million grams of DU dust. Using the figures provided by Durakovic this would release 1.16 million to 2.32 million Ci of radiation, a measure that would exceed the New York state safety levels for monthly release of 150Ci by a factor of 7,733 to 15,467. However, it is unlikely that this amount would be inhaled or ingested by a population, most of it would probably end up in the soil or diluted by the wind. Nonetheless, these figures suggest that it may not be prudent to completely ignore radiation risks from DU.

Human studies examining the carcinogenic potential of DU are limited but suggestive. Evidence of potential carcinogenic effects include suggestions of an increase in cervical carcinomas in Yugoslavia [42,43] and increases in micronuclei formation in subjects from the Bosnia/Herzegovina region [44]. There are also indications of hypoxanthine-guanine phosphoribosyl transferase (HPRT) mutation in some Gulf War veterans [40] as well as chromosomal aberrations in a German study group [45]. Two studies have found suggestive chromosomal aberrations in workers exposed to DU [46,47].

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2819790/

Edited by hornhorn
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2 minutes ago, hornhorn said:

This is what supporters and fanatics do. Here, let's do a test real quick and watch you and other Obama supporters defend him. 

Did you know Obama dropped depleted Uranium on Syrians sentencing generations to cancer, malformed babies etc.? And then apologized for it because we as a nation had decided not to do so after we did that in 2003. This is arguably as bad or worse than anything Trump has ever done. Does that change your opinion of Obama?

I'd like more information on this, because it just might change my opinion on Obama. I've found the FP story talking about its use against a fuel convoy in the deserts of eastern Syria against previous promises by CENTCOM not to use it, but I've yet to find anything saying that Obama either a) knew beforehand about its use or b) that he apologized for having ordered it.

Please & thanks.

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17 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Seriously.   And I mean this in the spirit of honest discussion, not to be demeaning.  The scenario I described is what he is, it's what he does, and it always has been.  I'm going to give a big benefit of the doubt, and presume that lots of folks thought/hoped that he would perform differently in the White House.  I get it, sometimes we vote on hope.

But he's been perhaps the most consistent president in my lifetime.  What you saw in his life before the presidency, and his campaign, is EXACTLY what you've gotten in the presidency.  There's no mystery.  He is entirely predictable, he runs the same plays over and over.  Today, you KNOW that whatever the issue that might bear some attention and improvement (let's go with Iran, as a recent example)....instead of improving it from its current status, he's going to amp up the crisis to dangerous/terrifying levels, then ratchet it back from that terrifying level (thus causing all of us to breathe a sigh of relief), and claim some sort of victory for avoiding disaster.  You can't honestly expect that he'll ever do anything BUT that.  Right? 

The perfect storm of ego, stupidity and daddy money.  The funny thing about that consistency is it is a big part of why his base loves him.  Make a policy checklist gleaned from the trailer-park ramblings of American Cletus and make that your platform.  Work down that list, issuing executive orders for each, and then proclaim the problem fixed.  Who the fuck cares what effect its had or if its had any effect at all?  All he has to do is claim its done and its done for his base.  Tax break?  CHECK!  Strengthen porous southern border?  CHECK!  Took care of the working man?  CHECK!  Got us out of foreign entanglements?  CHECK!  Dismantling the deep state? CHECK!

Incessant lying?  Baseless investigations into political opponents?  Debt ballooning?  Long term economic indicators showing an impending cliff?  Staff members resigning in protest?  Kids in cages?  Domestic hate violence rising?  Allies, even Great Britain, distancing themselves from us?

To the educated and/or moderately intelligent, those are disturbing signs of being headed in the wrong fucking direction.  But none of it matters to Cletus.  Trump is one of them.  They share the same dimly flickering mental lightbulb.  He's taken his and Cletus' shitty ideas and ran with them and Cletus absolutely worships him for it.  Because when you ignore everything else and just take Trump's word for it, he's absolutely the most effective President ever.  The most effective at executing Cletus' shitty ideas, which all work fantastically because Trump said so.  That in turn elevates Cletus to a position superior to what he is in reality -- a fucking moron who can't even effectively manage his goddamed double-wide trailer.

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23 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I'd like more information on this, because it just might change my opinion on Obama. I've found the FP story talking about its use against a fuel convoy in the deserts of eastern Syria against previous promises by CENTCOM not to use it, but I've yet to find anything saying that Obama either a) knew beforehand about its use or b) that he apologized for having ordered it.

Please & thanks.

If nothing, his admin at least stonewalled more inquiry into it. Here ya go: http://www.allgov.com/news/top-stories/obama-administration-stonewalls-inquiry-into-radioactive-weapon-use-in-iraq-130309?news=849366

And the fact that there is very limited information available on it should tell you all you need to make an assessment on our media. But watch them go crazy over Donny calling Rosie fat. 

Edited by hornhorn
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1 minute ago, WhatTheBuck said:

So I guess we don't have a problem with the depleted uranium munitions used by the Bushes?

Of course we do, he did it way worse with hundreds of thousands of rounds being dropped vs only 5000 rounds by Obama. 

If this was an overwhelmingly pro W board I'd bring that up. 

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1 hour ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

That article once again confirms Mattis is a pussy ass piece of shit.  Fuck him forever.

I was told that I don't understand the Marines because they can't speak back to their leaders no matter what manner of psychobabble vomits out of them. 

And I am glad Tillerson was never a Marine.

 

From the article 

Tillerson in particular was stunned by Trump’s diatribe and began visibly seething. For too many minutes, others in the room noticed, he had been staring straight, dumbfounded, at Mattis, who was speechless, his head bowed down toward the table. Tillerson thought to himself, “Gosh darn it, Jim, say something. Why aren’t you saying something?”

But, as he would later tell close aides, Tillerson realized in that moment that Mattis was genetically a Marine, unable to talk back to his commander in chief, no matter what nonsense came out of his mouth.

Edited by cactusflinthead
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19 minutes ago, hornhorn said:

Like I said, watch them cover their ears and eyes and defend their cult hero. Whoever it may be, Trump or Obama. Isn't it why we dropped it, because its uh harmless. 

Whether or not DU causes cancer is a popular question in the public media and controversial in the scientific literature. While the radioactivity of DU is low, it is not absent. It has been pointed out [41] that if even a little as 1−2% of the 300 tons of DU used in the Gulf War were converted to respirable dust it would produce three to six million grams of DU dust. Using the figures provided by Durakovic this would release 1.16 million to 2.32 million Ci of radiation, a measure that would exceed the New York state safety levels for monthly release of 150Ci by a factor of 7,733 to 15,467. However, it is unlikely that this amount would be inhaled or ingested by a population, most of it would probably end up in the soil or diluted by the wind. Nonetheless, these figures suggest that it may not be prudent to completely ignore radiation risks from DU.

Human studies examining the carcinogenic potential of DU are limited but suggestive. Evidence of potential carcinogenic effects include suggestions of an increase in cervical carcinomas in Yugoslavia [42,43] and increases in micronuclei formation in subjects from the Bosnia/Herzegovina region [44]. There are also indications of hypoxanthine-guanine phosphoribosyl transferase (HPRT) mutation in some Gulf War veterans [40] as well as chromosomal aberrations in a German study group [45]. Two studies have found suggestive chromosomal aberrations in workers exposed to DU [46,47].

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2819790/

The area that the DU rounds were shot in Syria is uninhabitable.  There is no human exposure because there aren't any humans there.  So no chance of cancer.

Kosovo and Bosnia are both very mountainous, and wherever there's a flat spot or valley, there are a lot of people.  The reason there hasn't been a lot of international outrage on this Syria thing is because there is very little chance of human exposure.  That doesn't absolve the commanding officer for his decision to use DU rounds in Syria, but the consequences are tiny compared to Bosnia and Kosovo.

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1 hour ago, hornhorn said:

This is what supporters and fanatics do. Here, let's do a test real quick and watch you and other Obama supporters defend him. 

Did you know Obama dropped depleted Uranium on Syrians sentencing generations to cancer, malformed babies etc.? And then apologized for it because we as a nation had decided not to do so after we did that in 2003. This is arguably as bad or worse than anything Trump has ever done. Does that change your opinion of Obama?

 

12 minutes ago, hornhorn said:

If nothing, his admin at least stonewalled more inquiry into it. Here ya go: http://www.allgov.com/news/top-stories/obama-administration-stonewalls-inquiry-into-radioactive-weapon-use-in-iraq-130309?news=849366

And the fact that there is very limited information available on it should tell you all you need to make an assessment on our media. But watch them go crazy over Donny calling Rosie fat. 

So, neither can you say that he ordered its use nor can you say he apologized for it. Then, you provide a link to an opinion with no supporting links that he was responsible for stonewalling an investigation into the use of DU.

Meanwhile, this thread is about what Trump is doing today. Got it.

Phase One: Distract.

Phase Two: Deny.

Phase Three: Defend.

Phase one partially accomplished.

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2 minutes ago, bolverk said:

 

So, neither can you say that he ordered its use nor can you say he apologized for it. Then, you provide a link to an opinion with no supporting links that he was responsible for stonewalling an investigation into the use of DU.

Meanwhile, this thread is about what Trump is doing today. Got it.

Phase One: Distract.

Phase Two: Deny.

Phase Three: Defend.

Phase one partially accomplished.

Oh Trump is totally at fault for whatever you're accusing him of doing. No distractions there, his faults are his faults. 

But I suppose if he doesn't apologize for it like Obama, he didn't do it either. Gotcha!

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1 minute ago, hornhorn said:

Oh Trump is totally at fault for whatever you're accusing him of doing. No distractions there, his faults are his faults. 

But I suppose if he doesn't apologize for it like Obama, he didn't do it either. Gotcha!

Start another thread and then provide information showing Obama's apology to start a meaningful discussion on that topic.

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