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The future of the Progressive Left


Hank Kingsley

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  • 2 months later...
On 1/26/2021 at 8:05 AM, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The online left is basically serious people vs unserious people and the unserious people get too much attention because they say dumb shit for attention. It’s annoying.  Folks like Krysal Ball, Dore, and Greenwald are not serious advocates for helping people. 

I think Dore truly wants to help people. However, he burns way too many calories on Twitter spats, gossip, drama, insulting people, etc. It's counterintuitive. 

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11 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Jimmy Dore is a hack and a fraud.

Maybe. Haven't kept up with him tbh. He was right on forcing a M4A vote tho. I think he's just tired of Democrats who use progressive rhetoric but then are right wing when they actually govern. *Kind of his whole schtick.

Edited by lmao
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6 minutes ago, lmao said:

Maybe. Haven't kept up with him tbh. He was right on forcing a M4A vote tho. I think he's just tired of Democrats who use progressive rhetoric but then are right wing when they actually govern. *Kind of his whole schtick.

Dore's whole shtick is demobilizing the left.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 7/22/2021 at 6:41 PM, DigglerontheHoof said:

He's an incredibly impressive man, with an amazing wife.  But pigs will fly out of my ass before a black man is elected governor in Arkansas. 

Thanks for bringing me back to earth.

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On 7/22/2021 at 6:41 PM, DigglerontheHoof said:

He's an incredibly impressive man, with an amazing wife.  But pigs will fly out of my ass before a black man is elected governor in Arkansas. 

Nolan Richardson could have pulled it off in 1994 / 1995.  That's about it though.

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  • 6 months later...
2 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Source is apparently a Marxist.  Yet....

 

 

 

 

Would have only cost $350 bil and funded by, shocker, MORE fucking taxes.  Of course the way projections work in this state, it probably would have ended up costing double or triple that.  No one really thought this had a prayer.  The author just wanted to show that "she tried".

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1 minute ago, Sbbruin said:

Would have only cost $350 bil and funded by, shocker, MORE fucking taxes.  Of course the way projections work in this state, it probably would have ended up costing double or triple that.  No one really thought this had a prayer.  The author just wanted to show that "she tried".

You apparently know more than me.  But I have to tell you, whenever I hear anyone toss out costs, I tend to personally wonder how we can afford other things. I wonder how much money health care lobbyists spend, for example.   How much the privatized prison system makes.  I don't know.   I wonder how politicians go in usually around middle class to upper middle class and somehow get rich(er).  I know I'm tilting at windmills.  I would even admit to being naïve, except that I don't expect anything seriously good to happen in terms of politics. 

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I also wonder @Sbbruin if your taxes would be off set by the single payer itself.   Take out costs of insurance and say an ER visit or two, and then compare to taxes.  Right?  Or wrong?

Then there is economic impact of people who can't afford health care.  I'm sure that's derogatory somehow.

 

But again, I don't believe anyone rebels against their corporate overlords.  Not in significant numbers anyway.

Edited by MC Fresh Breath
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Found a comment kind of expressing that:

Quote

To be clear here, the tax increases wouldn’t affect a good 90% of the people in the state - it was a corporate/payroll tax increase first and foremost, with a small income tax paid from income over $149k. I’m JUST over that line, and I would pay a whopping $30 more per year under this proposal.

 

and another:

Quote

 

It's not only how do we pay for it. We know how it's going to be paid for. The trick is to get people to understand that they will no longer be paying for insurance through their employer so saving around 200+ a month and in some cases might actually make more in base salary if the employer is required to pay back what they were previously calling "your compensation package" My employer offers 6k more in salary.

This is hard for people to understand because it requires things like thinking and effort. The effort comes in when people have to actually look at how much they are forking over through their employer and how much the employer is forking over...hint it's probably between 8 and 20 grand a year all in. Well that requires thinking too 'cause numbers and math and stuff. Then they have to imagine all the extras...I know, I know...it's a lot of thinking, but after paying about 10k to some faceless institution, they also ask that you pay a tincy weency extra when you go to the Dr...but only to your primary, if you go out of network that's even more extras! Oh and don't forget prescription copays!! We all love those don't we...I mean I know I feel so much more responsible for myself when I chip in and have some skin in the game and stop looking for freebies even though up to this point, all I have done is fork over all of my hard earned money...but thinking about it hurts my head and raises my blood pressure and I don't want to go to the Dr again...because it will just cost me more money!

So after ALL that thinking and effort and other hurty stuff, people have to understand that some of those costs (not all.. because the very existence of insurance makes health care more expensive) some of those costs need to added to the things you buy through taxes. But don't say that... it hurts to think about.

Problem is politicians skip all the hard stuff and just jump right into taxes,... even if they just ate....I mean it's hard explaining stuff and they don't want to think after thinking all day and neither do I.

 

 

These are unsourced comments, so I obvs can't verify the numbers.  But the train of thought makes sense to me.  Which, again, is why politics is so depressing.

Edited by MC Fresh Breath
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20 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

I also wonder @Sbbruin if your taxes would be off set by the single payer itself.   Take out costs of insurance and say an ER visit or two, and then compare to taxes.  Right?  Or wrong?

Then there is economic impact of people who can't afford health care.  I'm sure that's derogatory somehow.

 

But again, I don't believe anyone rebels against their corporate overlords.  Not in significant numbers anyway.

The legislative analysis indicated that Californians spend some $330B on health care a year, but the plan would cost up to $390B a year - that’s $100B more than the state budget. And the financing plan largely assumes the federal government will foot the bill while raising payroll and income taxes to make up the rest. I’d be more supportive of such a transformational move if the financing were supported by another much-needed transformational move: dismantling the absurd Prop 13 system. 
 

Also, I don’t think the plan envisions any sort of residency requirement, meaning anyone could come to CA for free care. As with housing, this is well intentioned but something that needs to be addressed at a federal level. 

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1 hour ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Found a comment kind of expressing that:

 

and another:

 

These are unsourced comments, so I obvs can't verify the numbers.  But the train of thought makes sense to me.  Which, again, is why politics is so depressing.

 "it was a corporate/payroll tax increase first and foremost".  The problem is businesses here are taxed at already exorbitant rate.  Companies have been leaving in droves.  You can't keep tapping that well.  It's unsustainable.  

Personally I don't think you can have some states in and some states out.  We either do it nationally, or you have chaos.  People with underlying conditions will just move to states providing single payer and it'll break the projections to hell.  

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