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Brennan Eagles taking a stand


TonyTexas

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I find the good cops/bad apples discussions fascinating from a purely dialectical perspective -- it really is a good way to gauge a person's overall attitude, even if it isn't a definitive conversation ender.

I liked what Chris Rock had to say about it -- basically, he argued that cops are like airline pilots. There's no room for even one bad apple -- you want to fly on an airline that says, "Look, 99% of our pilots like to put down the landing gear before landing"?

On the other hand... What exactly are we supposed to do with that conclusion? I mean, say we decide cops aren't allowed even one mistake. Okay... Now what? There's no obvious answer.

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10 hours ago, Walden Ponderer said:

I find the good cops/bad apples discussions fascinating from a purely dialectical perspective -- it really is a good way to gauge a person's overall attitude, even if it isn't a definitive conversation ender.

I liked what Chris Rock had to say about it -- basically, he argued that cops are like airline pilots. There's no room for even one bad apple -- you want to fly on an airline that says, "Look, 99% of our pilots like to put down the landing gear before landing"?

On the other hand... What exactly are we supposed to do with that conclusion? I mean, say we decide cops aren't allowed even one mistake. Okay... Now what? There's no obvious answer.

Eliminating or weakening police unions would be a start, but that will never happen. We live in a world where cops have one of the most stress inducing jobs, and by nature of the position, you’re going to have a lot of meat head power hungry guys who have always loved guns. By default, some of those people will be bad apples. It’s the other cops that know about the bad apples but don’t (can’t?) do anything. The George Floyd murder was a microcosm for police precincts around the nation for a lot of people. The one “bad apple” with knee on neck, and other 3 guys not doing a god damn thing to stop it. 
 

Ultimately, there is no fix unless every precinct around the country buys in. And why would they buy in if they don’t think their is currently a problem. It ain’t changing any time soon. Let’s put it that way.

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12 hours ago, Walden Ponderer said:

I find the good cops/bad apples discussions fascinating from a purely dialectical perspective -- it really is a good way to gauge a person's overall attitude, even if it isn't a definitive conversation ender.

I liked what Chris Rock had to say about it -- basically, he argued that cops are like airline pilots. There's no room for even one bad apple -- you want to fly on an airline that says, "Look, 99% of our pilots like to put down the landing gear before landing"?

On the other hand... What exactly are we supposed to do with that conclusion? I mean, say we decide cops aren't allowed even one mistake. Okay... Now what? There's no obvious answer.

 

Cops are allowed mistakes. Overlooking evidence, misidentifying a suspect, misreading a traffic control device or brethalyzer test could all be mistakes. In the heat of the moment of physical struggle, getting in an extra punch or two might be considered a human mistake.

Kneeling on a man's neck for 9 minutes, 4 of which he was restrained, 2 of which he was nonresponsive, cannot be considered a mistake. It can only be considered a deliberate act intentional and indifferent.

Right now, I believe the general public is asking why these overreaches in use of force seem to happen almost exclusively to suspects with black skin.

I do not personally agree with the "All Cops are Bastards" sentiment. Law Enforcement has an ugly, dangerous job to do. All the officers I know entered in to the service with a servant's heart. HOWEVER: I do believe the problem goes beyond the police. I believe we're all steeped in the notion that black skin is inherently more dangerous and suspicious than white skin. It's nothing we're doing deliberately or consciously. It's just the way we've operated for 500 years - only the last 50 of which we've even pretended to see black skinned people as people. It's going to take time to unlearn, but we'll never unlearn it if we don't recognize it and try to do better.

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16 minutes ago, GoldAppleCorps said:

 

Cops are allowed mistakes. Overlooking evidence, misidentifying a suspect, misreading a traffic control device or brethalyzer test could all be mistakes. In the heat of the moment of physical struggle, getting in an extra punch or two might be considered a human mistake.

Kneeling on a man's neck for 9 minutes, 4 of which he was restrained, 2 of which he was nonresponsive, cannot be considered a mistake. It can only be considered a deliberate act intentional and indifferent.

Right now, I believe the general public is asking why these overreaches in use of force seem to happen almost exclusively to suspects with black skin.

I do not personally agree with the "All Cops are Bastards" sentiment. Law Enforcement has an ugly, dangerous job to do. All the officers I know entered in to the service with a servant's heart. HOWEVER: I do believe the problem goes beyond the police. I believe we're all steeped in the notion that black skin is inherently more dangerous and suspicious than white skin. It's nothing we're doing deliberately or consciously. It's just the way we've operated for 500 years - only the last 50 of which we've even pretended to see black skinned people as people. It's going to take time to unlearn, but we'll never unlearn it if we don't recognize it and try to do better.

Not every cop puts their knee on a mans neck , but all cops either look the other way or cover for their comrades. Because any cop who's ever spoken up is transferred out and had their career ruined. There are no good cops when it comes to police violence, they are all culpable. America is responsible because all this is either ignored or encouraged all while blissfully watching their police procedural that show cops as superheroes. Anytime someone brings up the injustice they are shouted down or ignored and it just keeps happening over and over again. Americans are lazy cowards, they are willing to pay lip service to justice and civil rights so long as it doesn't have the potential of inconveniencing their way of life.

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3 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

Not every cop puts their knee on a mans neck , but all cops either look the other way or cover for their comrades. Because any cop who's ever spoken up is transferred out and had their career ruined. There are no good cops when it comes to police violence, they are all culpable. America is responsible because all this is either ignored or encouraged all while blissfully watching their police procedural that show cops as superheroes. Anytime someone brings up the injustice they are shouted down or ignored and it just keeps happening over and over again. Americans are lazy cowards, they are willing to pay lip service to justice and civil rights so long as it doesn't have the potential of inconveniencing their way of life.

I'd like to believe that the problem isn't this pervasive, but I'm afraid you're right. The culture of "protecting your partner" is more felt than the culture of "protect and serve". Most of the public don't have a full sense for the crud cops put up with, so it's easy to latch on to the "we have to protect each other" vibe.

What has to be understood is that every time an incident like this happens, it makes every officer's job that much more dangerous. In America, we succeed based on the mutual respect for law enforcement - given and received. There aren't enough officers to fend off a complete breakdown of the citizenry, nor should there ever be. Every time an officer treats a citizen, suspect or no, with less than full dignity the two way pathway erodes just a little further.

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15 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

Not every cop puts their knee on a mans neck , but all cops either look the other way or cover for their comrades. Because any cop who's ever spoken up is transferred out and had their career ruined. There are no good cops when it comes to police violence, they are all culpable. America is responsible because all this is either ignored or encouraged all while blissfully watching their police procedural that show cops as superheroes. Anytime someone brings up the injustice they are shouted down or ignored and it just keeps happening over and over again. Americans are lazy cowards, they are willing to pay lip service to justice and civil rights so long as it doesn't have the potential of inconveniencing their way of life.

I mean, there is a serious problem but that is a bit much. 

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13 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

I mean, there is a serious problem but that is a bit much. 

I'm waiting to hear from the giant chorus of cops publicly calling out their colleagues. Accountability starts from within, right?

Please let me know when the "good" cops start to hold accountable the rotten apples.

If they have the courage to hide behind a badge, turn off the body cameras, and hide their name plates, then they should not have a problem with mustering the courage to publicly call out the bullshit from within.

Edited by crash_davis
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14 hours ago, Walden Ponderer said:

I find the good cops/bad apples discussions fascinating from a purely dialectical perspective -- it really is a good way to gauge a person's overall attitude, even if it isn't a definitive conversation ender.

I liked what Chris Rock had to say about it -- basically, he argued that cops are like airline pilots. There's no room for even one bad apple -- you want to fly on an airline that says, "Look, 99% of our pilots like to put down the landing gear before landing"?

On the other hand... What exactly are we supposed to do with that conclusion? I mean, say we decide cops aren't allowed even one mistake. Okay... Now what? There's no obvious answer.

First we have to admit that the shit to good cop ratio is closer to 50/50 than 25/75. There’s a lot of shit cops out here and they’ve been festering In the police force for decades. This idea that there’s a “few bad apples” is bullshit. If there is simply a few bad apples than the “good” cops would phase them out 

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29 minutes ago, TommyGufano said:

Weird. Before I clicked that link, I jokingly thought to myself that it is obviously a reference to the tv show Adam 12. Then I clicked the link and it actually is.

Now I feel old.

Edited by Orange&White
misspelling
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45 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

I'm waiting to hear from the giant chorus of cops publicly calling out their colleagues. Accountability starts from within, right?

Please let me know when the "good" cops start to hold accountable the rotten apples.

If they have the courage to hide behind a badge, turn off the body cameras, and hide their name plates, then they should not have a problem with mustering the courage to publicly call out the bullshit from within.

 

Plenty of police officers have been very vocal with their disgust of what has happened. If you did not see that you simply were not looking. 

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13 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

 

Plenty of police officers have been very vocal with their disgust of what has happened. If you did not see that you simply were not looking. 

How many of those were from Minneapolis?  We saw how they felt about a "bad apple" being taken out of service.

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36 minutes ago, Orange&White said:

Weird. Before I clicked that link, I jokingly thought to myself that it is obviously a reference to the tv show Adam 12. Then I clicked the link and it actually is.

Now I feel old.

Numerically I would think 5-0 would be used. Meh, but I'm old school and out of touch.

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1 hour ago, A’Dam Psycho said:

First we have to admit that the shit to good cop ratio is closer to 50/50 than 25/75. There’s a lot of shit cops out here and they’ve been festering In the police force for decades. This idea that there’s a “few bad apples” is bullshit. If there is simply a few bad apples than the “good” cops would phase them out 

 

Sure there bad cops but who the hell knows the percentage.  I’m sure there are good cops that are good everyday and then just snap and then there are bad human beings that just happen to be cops.  As has been said before the bad cops get a ton more coverage than the good ones and I understand that but that doesn’t necessarily translate to good/bad percentage.  As far as your statement to phase out the bad ones.  Are you saying other professions don’t have bad employees?   I’m sure there is always an ongoing effort to get rid of the bad cops but unions usually hinder that and let’s not forget we are asking people to do a high/high stress job for not great pay and then expect police forces to be able to recruit only the best of the best.  I will never be OK with any and I mean any police brutality or misconduct but to have an attitude that the cops suck is just weak minded.  I hope we can not only try better to understand the problems that the black community faces with discrimination but also try to better understand and appreciate what an incredibly difficult the job is being a cop.  

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53 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

 

Plenty of police officers have been very vocal with their disgust of what has happened. If you did not see that you simply were not looking. 

I'll make a deal with you. You post the videos and links with cops calling out other cops. I'll post vids and links of cops who were dickheads and cops who continue to be fucking dickheads with nary a fucking dissenting sound from their colleagues. We'll see what the disparity is.

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48 minutes ago, A’Dam Psycho said:

First we have to admit that the shit to good cop ratio is closer to 50/50 than 25/75. 

Nonsense. First, "admit" is improper here. You need that to be "agree", unless it is actually an attempt at division.

Second, the ratio of bad cops to all cops is more like 5-10%, and closer to 5 than to 10, which fits very well with psych research which finds that socio-/psycho-paths constitute about 6% of the populace at large.

The problem is that the affected individuals are found in higher ratios in the upper levels of nearly all organizations, from politics to corporate offices, including police. That seems to be because the lack, or even absence, of that voice of conscience which most of us have, is what allows them to fuck over anyone and anything standing in their way and still sleep soundly. Those are the "successful"  socio/psycho-paths - the failures wind up in prisons.The 80% or so of good (or not-so-bad) cops are mostly "followers" and will go along with their superiors. When those superiors are themselves good guys, everything's more or less copacetic, but when the superiors are themselves bad guys, way too many in the whole department tends to be that way and/or keep their mouths shut if they want to keep on copping.

Disagree, or don't. I don't know to fix it, but not letting the assholes get to the top is part of it, however you do that. I will say that we need fewer laws, not more cops. Start by putting an end to the bullshit War on Drugs, prolly be a good step, but I dunno if the Prison-Industrial bidness would let that happen.

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1 hour ago, crash_davis said:

I'll make a deal with you. You post the videos and links with cops calling out other cops. I'll post vids and links of cops who were dickheads and cops who continue to be fucking dickheads with nary a fucking dissenting sound from their colleagues. We'll see what the disparity is.

 

I really should not even respond, but all it took was a simple google search to find several examples. 

https://www.pennlive.com/nation-world/2020/05/police-across-us-speak-out-against-minneapolis-custody-death.html

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Thanks for this @BrazilHorn

Mike Roach Humidor:   The events in Minneapolis took place, stopping America in her tracks.   Race is the most difficult subject to broach in American discourse even when emotion isn’t turned to 11 but Tom Herman did the smartest thing someone in his position could do – he sat back and listened. On Monday, a team meeting was scheduled for 45 minutes. It organically went for one hour, then two, and finally three as players “poured out their heart.” Even incoming Michigan wide receiver transfer Tarik Black, who still isn’t on campus, spoke. Herman also relaxed his preferences regarding player usage of social media. This has led to Brennan Eagles publicly contemplating sitting out the season, however sources don’t think that will happen. “Brennan is like many, he’s frustrated and knows he has a platform and wants to do something. It’s not a team message, it’s his individual message.” (Eagles will live with Sam Ehlinger this upcoming season. This will very likely be a big development.) 

 

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1 hour ago, Newy25 said:

 

I really should not even respond, but all it took was a simple google search to find several examples. 

https://www.pennlive.com/nation-world/2020/05/police-across-us-speak-out-against-minneapolis-custody-death.html

Spoiler

homeless man shot by lapd

2s7us3h3i3351.jpg

firing  at homeowners on their porch

https://streamable.com/u2jzoo

firing at a woman cause she hurt his feelings.

https://tuckbot.tv/#/watch/gtksgq

cops destroying water supplies

https://tuckbot.tv/#/watch/gtpc0l

driving suv into protesters

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/04/new-york-police-brutality-protests-george-floyd

montage of assholes being assholes

https://tuckbot.tv/#/watch/gtr02f

shooting at the press. so fucking awesome.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gt69qe/police_start_shooting_press_with_some_kinda/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

more assholes being assholes

https://mobile.twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/1266193926316228609

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gtsji2/black_man_with_his_hands_in_the_air_get_his_mask/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

https://mobile.twitter.com/KillerMartinis/status/1266618525600399361?s=19

insecure little bitch pushing down a woman.

https://mobile.twitter.com/whitney_hu/status/1266540710188195843?s=20

cop assaults an old man, they get fired and instead of speaking out against the bullshit, 57 cops resign to protest the firing. they are speaking out, but just for the wrong cause.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/05/buffalo-officers-suspended-shoving-man/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

https://twitter.com/KRobPhoto/status/1266796191469252610

the catalyst for all this shit, assholes are still doing it, kneeling on people's necks. fuck them.

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/region-sarasota-manatee/sarasota-officer-under-investigation-after-kneeling-on-mans-neck-during-arrest

arresting a peacefully protesting congressman.

https://i.redd.it/k7k6ghqpmz151.jpg

 

there are 50+ more incidents that i could post. feel free to post links to any fellow cops calling out any of the bullshit that i posted. on the contrary, 57 fuckheads resigned when 2 of their own get fired for assaulting an old man.

get out of here with your fucking bullshit.

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32 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

Thanks for this @BrazilHorn

Mike Roach Humidor:   The events in Minneapolis took place, stopping America in her tracks.   Race is the most difficult subject to broach in American discourse even when emotion isn’t turned to 11 but Tom Herman did the smartest thing someone in his position could do – he sat back and listened. On Monday, a team meeting was scheduled for 45 minutes. It organically went for one hour, then two, and finally three as players “poured out their heart.” Even incoming Michigan wide receiver transfer Tarik Black, who still isn’t on campus, spoke. Herman also relaxed his preferences regarding player usage of social media. This has led to Brennan Eagles publicly contemplating sitting out the season, however sources don’t think that will happen. “Brennan is like many, he’s frustrated and knows he has a platform and wants to do something. It’s not a team message, it’s his individual message.” (Eagles will live with Sam Ehlinger this upcoming season. This will very likely be a big development.) 

 

I have been highly critical of Herman the last 12-18 mos as I think he hasn't done a great job in aggregate. I will say on this issue I believe that he has really responded well.

I completely support Brennan in doing whatever he chooses to do, I do think as a player he has a much bigger amplifier for his voice than as a former player.

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20 hours ago, Burntcowboy said:

Is he saying he doesn’t like the player who wears 12, or is he saying he’s marching with more than 12 

 

CDC says covid will affect you in groups of more than 12, so hes trying to not catch the Rona 

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4 hours ago, crash_davis said:
  Hide contents

homeless man shot by lapd

2s7us3h3i3351.jpg

firing  at homeowners on their porch

https://streamable.com/u2jzoo

firing at a woman cause she hurt his feelings.

https://tuckbot.tv/#/watch/gtksgq

cops destroying water supplies

https://tuckbot.tv/#/watch/gtpc0l

driving suv into protesters

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/04/new-york-police-brutality-protests-george-floyd

montage of assholes being assholes

https://tuckbot.tv/#/watch/gtr02f

shooting at the press. so fucking awesome.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gt69qe/police_start_shooting_press_with_some_kinda/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

more assholes being assholes

https://mobile.twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/1266193926316228609

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gtsji2/black_man_with_his_hands_in_the_air_get_his_mask/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

https://mobile.twitter.com/KillerMartinis/status/1266618525600399361?s=19

insecure little bitch pushing down a woman.

https://mobile.twitter.com/whitney_hu/status/1266540710188195843?s=20

cop assaults an old man, they get fired and instead of speaking out against the bullshit, 57 cops resign to protest the firing. they are speaking out, but just for the wrong cause.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/05/buffalo-officers-suspended-shoving-man/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

https://twitter.com/KRobPhoto/status/1266796191469252610

the catalyst for all this shit, assholes are still doing it, kneeling on people's necks. fuck them.

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/region-sarasota-manatee/sarasota-officer-under-investigation-after-kneeling-on-mans-neck-during-arrest

arresting a peacefully protesting congressman.

https://i.redd.it/k7k6ghqpmz151.jpg

 

there are 50+ more incidents that i could post. feel free to post links to any fellow cops calling out any of the bullshit that i posted. on the contrary, 57 fuckheads resigned when 2 of their own get fired for assaulting an old man.

get out of here with your fucking bullshit.

I simply posted an example, one of many that proved your point wrong. We can have a discussion about what to do without hyperbolic, emotional statements not rooted in any factual reality. 
 

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1 hour ago, Sgt Hulk said:

It’s open season now.   Everyone everywhere is searching through old messages 

This right here. If something was said or done to you years ago and you are just now bringing it up then just how bad was it?

How much retro-action is allowable? Are we going to stop showing old movies from the ‘30”s and “40’s because they are not politically correct? Going to quit airing reruns of The Chappell Show and In Living Color? Etc.?

I am all for doing the right thing and getting this Nation united but I have a hard time with exaggeration and exploitation.

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I hope Brennan plays, but if he feels like he shouldn't for any reason I respect it. I'm not sure what he will achieve, or what he thinks it could achieve but it's his life and his call. 

Also, I sure don't want him or anyone else getting injured because their head (or heart) is not in it. 

 

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On 6/4/2020 at 8:38 AM, Orange&White said:

Count me in the group that doesn't understand what the result is that he is looking for.

No matter what race you are, the vast majority of the people in the country have to have some sort of profession in order to survive. He happens to be good at one that could potentially pay him very well and allow him to take care of his family and provide a platform where people will listen to him and read his tweets.

If he quits football, he will still need to go have another job, football will still be played.

 

I agree. It's all about the platform from which you speak. Brennan Eagles tweeting about racism while a star football player at Texas has a platform. Brennan Eagles tweeting about racism while not playing football is just another twtterer in the twitter verse. 

Tommie Smith and John Carlos created the most memorable image of the 1968 Olympics because of the platform.  Had they done their black power salute in a parking lot in  Austin, it would not resonate quite the same way.

how-the-black-power-protest-at-the-1968-
 

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1 hour ago, 927 E. 41st said:

I hope Brennan plays, but if he feels like he shouldn't for any reason I respect it. I'm not sure what he will achieve, or what he thinks it could achieve but it's his life and his call. 

Also, I sure don't want him or anyone else getting injured because their head (or heart) is not in it. 

 

Yeah buddy. Please remember that when you are leaving the Cotton Bowl in October.

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