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Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it


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1 hour ago, Alien Octopus said:

Stats don’t say what you think or what you want,  they say what they say.  

Mmmmhmmm. Sure. You're confusing facts with statistics.

What do I deduce from statistics inidicating that police are rarely punished or even reprimanded for violence against blacks (or just about anybody else for that matter)?

What do I deduce from the Floyd video and the lack of official response to it prior to protests?

What do I deduce from the repeated testimony of blacks about their experience of the police?

Do I clamp on to my favorite statistics about blacks killing blacks? Do I print them out and stuff them in my ears? Do I stop far from the truth when I find a convenient statistic?

You're pretty smug if you're sure your choice of statistics lays the entire racism issue or even the narrow issue of police brutality of blacks to rest. You're embracing ignorance while declaring yourself absolutely right.

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2 hours ago, Randolph Duke said:

I think he’s also ignoring such gems from The Supremes as Dred Scott, Plessy v Ferguson. 

I also think he is ignoring Bull Connor, and his type. And the 16th St Baptist Church. And federal troops in Little Rock. Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

The history of violence driving civil rights reform far outweighs the history of the Supreme Court doing anything to bring about meaningful change in the streets of our nation. 

The Supreme Court has made its decision, now let them enforce it.”

Dred Scott?  The 1857 decision that was superseded by the Constitutional Amendments that formed the bases of the cases I cited?

Plessy?  The 1896 decision that was abrogated by Brown and the other cases I cited?

No, I'm not ignoring those cases.  Neither did the Supreme Court when it overturned those decisions or the Congress and the States when they enacted the Reconstruction Amendments.

The Supreme Court's equal protection jurisprudence was not enforced by violent mobs.  It was enforced through the rule of law.  Sometimes that meant the deployment of troops.  The 101st Airborne Division being deployed to desegregate Little Rock public schools at the direction of our duly elected civilian government is a far cry from violent mobs destroying billions of dollars of private property and attacking the very agents of the state who were once called upon to enforce the Court's equal protection jurisprudence.

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18 minutes ago, Lhorn said:

with regards to your last sentence.... I envy you

Can you give me a synopsis of what UT's African-American greats have stated on the subject?  Thanks!

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4 minutes ago, Stannis said:

Dred Scott?  The 1857 decision that was superseded by the Constitutional Amendments that formed the bases of the cases I cited?

Plessy?  The 1896 decision that was abrogated by Brown and the other cases I cited?

No, I'm not ignoring those cases.  Neither did the Supreme Court when it overturned those decisions or the Congress and the States when they enacted the Reconstruction Amendments.

The Supreme Court's equal protection jurisprudence was not enforced by violent mobs.  It was enforced through the rule of law.  Sometimes that meant the deployment of troops.  The 101st Airborne Division being deployed to desegregate Little Rock public schools at the direction of our duly elected civilian government is a far cry from violent mobs destroying billions of dollars of private property and attacking the very agents of the state who were once called upon to enforce the Court's equal protection jurisprudence.

I’m not going to argue the subject with you. The decisions of the Supreme Court mean nothing until and unless there is a commitment to see the right of the people enforced. The entire reason there is the current civil unrest is that there is no other reasonable alternative for the people being oppressed. 

Face it, we as a nation have failed. And people are demanding change. 

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38 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:

I apologise, I misremembered your words. I agree that you did not claim to know black or athlete student feelings.

I will note that you said you were sure they didn't know the history, so my question is still what makes you think that? I don't know if this was a topic of conversation or not, but if there was conversation, I could easily see it being pretty internal given the general lack of public discourse at the time. In other words it seems like the starting point was something like "it wasn't brought up by me or my social circle therefore it didn't exist". I personally think that this is the default perception for any majority in any country, which includes me. I do the same at times, but am trying to be more conscious of it when I do.

 Again apologies for attributing the statement about knowing their feelings to you.

I like to think I'm up on my history, given my DAR award and all I received in high school. Lol. But I realize now that so many historical figures are more controversial than I ever learned in my history classes. I just believe if back in January if you would have asked students on campus who Jim Hogg was you may have gotten a former governor of Texas from a few, but how many knew he was racist? Hell, I didn't even know, but now that I do it doesn't surprise me.  I just learned from reading a post by randolphduke that Sul Ross was a real piece of shit confederate general. Why  they ever named a university after him I have no idea. Everyone of course knows of Robert E Lee and his statue may belong in a museum somewhere but not on a university campus or even public park. Bottom line is I think most of us agree everyone should feel comfortable on campus and I was sincere when I said change the names and take down the statues. What I meant by it changes nothing is it won't keep racist or bad cops from killing an innocent man or keep someone from hiring a person because of the color of their skin.  I guess every journey starts with a first step. I don't think we're too far apart on how we think about this issue, except for possibly donations to BLM. I said in a previous post have more scholarships for black students instead. I think that would be money better spent and less likely to line someone's pockets.

Damn, I mention R. D. in my post and there he is.

 

And by the way I saw you were the spelling Nazi when someone spelled a lot allot, it's apologize, not apologise. Just messing with you. If we all spent time correcting everyone's spelling nothing would get posted. I know I've had my share of misspellings.

Edited by CfRhTxStBobcats
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12 minutes ago, CfRhTxStBobcats said:

I like to think I'm up on my history, given my DAR award and all I received in high school. Lol. But I realize now that so many historical figures are more controversial than I ever learned in my history classes. I just believe if back in January if you would have asked students on campus who Jim Hogg was you may have gotten a former governor of Texas from a few, but how many knew he was racist? Hell, I didn't even know, but now that I do it doesn't surprise me.  I just learned from reading a post by randolphduke that Sul Ross was a real piece of shit confederate general. Why  they ever named a university after him I have no idea. Everyone of course knows of Robert E Lee and his statue may belong in a museum somewhere but not on a university campus or even public park. Bottom line is I think most of us agree everyone should feel comfortable on campus and I was sincere when I said change the names and take down the statues. What I meant by it changes nothing is it won't keep racist or bad cops from killing an innocent man or keep someone from hiring a person because of the color of their skin.  I guess every journey starts with a first step. I don't think we're too far apart on how we think about this issue, except for possibly donations to BLM. I said in a previous post have more scholarships for black students instead. I think that would be money better spent and less likely to line someone's pockets.

Damn, I mention R. D. in my post and there he is.

 

And by the way I saw you were the spelling Nazi when someone spelled a lot allot, it's apologize, not apologise. Just messing with you. If we all spent time correcting everyone's spelling nothing would get posted. I know I've had my share of misspellings.

All good friend, but I was not the spelling Nazi. Even for me, that splinter in my eye is too big, so that was someone else. :)

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9 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:

All good friend, but I was not the spelling Nazi. Even for me, that splinter in my eye is too big, so that was someone else. :)

I apologize for the false accusation. Sometimes my memory isn't very good and I'm too lazy to go back and look at things, otherwise we could have resolved our differences and misunderstandings long ago. Peace!

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38 minutes ago, Randolph Duke said:

I’m not going to argue the subject with you. The decisions of the Supreme Court mean nothing until and unless there is a commitment to see the right of the people enforced. The entire reason there is the current civil unrest is that there is no other reasonable alternative for the people being oppressed. 

Face it, we as a nation have failed. And people are demanding change. 

Thanks for the Sul Ross history lesson in the aggy thread. I had no idea what a POS that guy was.

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1 hour ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Cliff’s notes of their takes?

Arguing about whether or not the song carries racial undertones because it may or may not have been written FOR a minstrel show, it just happened to be first performed AT a minstrel show. 

Apex said black people lack fathers. 

And some people are going to drop Texas football if we drop the song. 

Edited by MrBig
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12 minutes ago, MrBig said:

Arguing about whether or not the song carries racial undertones because it may or may not have been written FOR a minstrel show, it just happened to be first performed AT a minstrel show. 

Apex said black people lack fathers. 

And some people are going to drop Texas football if we drop the song. 

 

You forgot the part where we've all decided that there is no systemic prejudice against minorities in our justice system, because OJ Simpson was found not guilty. Powerful stuff.

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15 minutes ago, MrBig said:

Arguing about whether or not the song carries racial undertones because it may or may not have been written FOR a minstrel show, it just happened to be first performed AT a minstrel show. 

Apex said black people lack fathers. 

And some people are going to drop Texas football if we drop the song. 

Good riddance. 

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I’ve read a sample of this thread.  Not random - essentially the first several pages and the last few. The following thoughts keep coming up. Apologies if I’m beating a dead horse.  
 

1. I’m happy to see mostly civil discourse on a polarizing subject. By mostly civil I’m referring to a willingness to listen, admit a comment could have been misunderstood and eventually be willing to agree to disagree 

2. I’m sure somewhere in the pages I skipped someone has suggested the “Eyes of Texas” demand was brilliant negotiating strategy. I doubt it is the most material grievance but, as evidenced by the focus here, the one that can be leveraged into the most material change.  Kudos to the athletes for a really smart move.

3.  Change needs to happen.  It won’t if we rationalize why the ones that impact us personally aren’t the changes that should occur.  That mindset resists any change.  Personal sacrifice and painful introspection are needed.  As I type this I’m listening to a couple people discuss how taking the confederate flag down at nascar races is wrong.  And that amplifies my position.  

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, mdmost said:

This is good shit from Finger. 

 

"Of course, there will be stubborn curmudgeons who complain about all of this. They mistakenly equate the players’ requests with ripping pages out of an old book, not realizing that, on the contrary, they’re adding a new chapter that provides better context to the ones that came before.

And for those who worry about erasing the past? Let’s get one thing straight.

Ignoring history isn’t removing a monument to unworthy men.

Ignoring history is ordering a sausage wrap, staring directly at that monument, and never asking why somebody built the dang thing in the first place."

mfinger@express-news.net

 

Well said.    This is what we need to focus on.   For years the victors wrote the history.  Now the masses are catching up and wanting a rewrite.   We went through this with the Alamo and its story not too long ago and survived, wiser even.  

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1 hour ago, RomaVicta said:

Mmmmhmmm. Sure. You're confusing facts with statistics.

What do I deduce from statistics inidicating that police are rarely punished or even reprimanded for violence against blacks (or just about anybody else for that matter)?

What do I deduce from the Floyd video and the lack of official response to it prior to protests?

What do I deduce from the repeated testimony of blacks about their experience of the police?

Do I clamp on to my favorite statistics about blacks killing blacks? Do I print them out and stuff them in my ears? Do I stop far from the truth when I find a convenient statistic?

You're pretty smug if you're sure your choice of statistics lays the entire racism issue or even the narrow issue of police brutality of blacks to rest. You're embracing ignorance while declaring yourself absolutely right.

I never declared myself anything. This is where I know your are full of crap. Anyone who starts an argument with forget the stats, I have testimonials, is a conman. A conman who has the balls to call me smug.

The call for police accountability and the race baiting you continue to promote are two entirely different issues. If BLM is so concerned about police accountability, where were the fuck were they when officer Grimes executed two people in their homes down here in Htown earlier this year? I saw no protests. Oh yeah those impoverished people were white. Does not fit narrative.
 

Go to BLM website and see all the community things they are doing. I mean the site is jam packed with such meaningful actions like protesting ICE, because that really helps the black community?!  I particularly liked the copy in spanish. Really doing a lot for the black community.  I mean however could they read the action packet without a spanish translation? Looks like a typical voter drive, nice tshirts though.

As for the rest  of your drivel; I am positive that no one ever in the history of ever getting nabbed by the man was ever in the wrong. I mean I was not speeding, I am innocent. No one in prison has been or ever is guilty.

Just listen to their testimonials...Queue the video the BLM just paid a black artist to create, as per their stated mandate.

The myth of white cops systematically and disproportionately eradicating black men Is a fantasy that has been regurgitated by the progressive machine now incarnated by BLM. Provide data to back up this basic point or get off your high horse. Come on man, you doubled down, called me stupid, smug and ignorant, negged me. The only thing you have not done is gone over the stats? Why is that? 

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3 minutes ago, brown water said:

I’ve read a sample of this thread.  Not random - essentially the first several pages and the last few. The following thoughts keep coming up. Apologies if I’m beating a dead horse.  
 

1. I’m happy to see mostly civil discourse on a polarizing subject. By mostly civil I’m referring to a willingness to listen, admit a comment could have been misunderstood and eventually be willing to agree to disagree 

2. I’m sure somewhere in the pages I skipped someone has suggested the “Eyes of Texas” demand was brilliant negotiating strategy. I doubt it is the most material grievance but, as evidenced by the focus here, the one that can be leveraged into the most material change.  Kudos to the athletes for a really smart move.

3.  Change needs to happen.  It won’t if we rationalize why the ones that impact us personally aren’t the changes that should occur.  That mindset resists any change.  Personal sacrifice and painful introspection are needed.  As I type this I’m listening to a couple people discuss how taking the confederate flag down at nascar races is wrong.  And that amplifies my position.  

 

 

 

 

I too feel “The Eyes” was more strategy than a priority.  Perhaps I’m looking too deep but even the wording suggests “at least don’t require us to sing it without issue”.

I hope/feel this works out in a very mutually beneficial & satisfactory way for everyone.  

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20 minutes ago, Alien Octopus said:

I never declared myself anything. This is where I know your are full of crap. Anyone who starts an argument with forget the stats, I have testimonials, is a conman. A conman who has the balls to call me smug.

The call for police accountability and the race baiting you continue to promote are two entirely different issues. If BLM is so concerned about police accountability, where were the fuck were they when officer Grimes executed two people in their homes down here in Htown earlier this year? I saw no protests. Oh yeah those impoverished people were white. Does not fit narrative.
 

Go to BLM website and see all the community things they are doing. I mean the site is jam packed with such meaningful actions like protesting ICE, because that really helps the black community?!  I particularly liked the copy in spanish. Really doing a lot for the black community.  I mean however could they read the action packet without a spanish translation? Looks like a typical voter drive, nice tshirts though.

As for the rest  of your drivel; I am positive that no one ever in the history of ever getting nabbed by the man was ever in the wrong. I mean I was not speeding, I am innocent. No one in prison has been or ever is guilty.

Just listen to their testimonials...Queue the video the BLM just paid a black artist to create, as per their stated mandate.

The myth of white cops systematically and disproportionately eradicating black men Is a fantasy that has been regurgitated by the progressive machine now incarnated by BLM. Provide data to back up this basic point or get off your high horse. Come on man, you doubled down, called me stupid, smug and ignorant, negged me. The only thing you have not done is gone over the stats? Why is that? 

Congrats. You've found a new way to make yourself argument proof. You're worth no more of time. You are exactly as I described. 

9a52cb80f4ac267521c18dd2f4ceab4f.gif

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1 hour ago, brown water said:

I’ve read a sample of this thread.  Not random - essentially the first several pages and the last few. The following thoughts keep coming up. Apologies if I’m beating a dead horse.  
 

1. I’m happy to see mostly civil discourse on a polarizing subject. By mostly civil I’m referring to a willingness to listen, admit a comment could have been misunderstood and eventually be willing to agree to disagree 

2. I’m sure somewhere in the pages I skipped someone has suggested the “Eyes of Texas” demand was brilliant negotiating strategy. I doubt it is the most material grievance but, as evidenced by the focus here, the one that can be leveraged into the most material change.  Kudos to the athletes for a really smart move.

3.  Change needs to happen.  It won’t if we rationalize why the ones that impact us personally aren’t the changes that should occur.  That mindset resists any change.  Personal sacrifice and painful introspection are needed.  As I type this I’m listening to a couple people discuss how taking the confederate flag down at nascar races is wrong.  And that amplifies my position.  

 

 

 

 

Ah well. Never the less. 

48 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Congrats. You've found a new way to make yourself argument proof. You're worth no more of time. You are exactly as I described. 

9a52cb80f4ac267521c18dd2f4ceab4f.gif

 

47 minutes ago, Alien Octopus said:

Bbye toad.

 

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4 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

This is not true. Players from the team have said it has bothered them in the past. There have been multiple news reports referenced in this thread showing how it was pointed out in the past but no one gave a shit. Again, you just refuse to acknowledge these facts because it does not fit your narrative. 
 

The rest of your post is more ignoring their point of view because it’s not your point of view, therefore it won’t achieve shit TO YOU. And since you have an opinion, you believe it should be given the same weight at the players opinion. 

 

Yea my opinion is worth just as much as any human beings. I support these guys and pay a lot of money to university year in and year out so I think my opinion holds a little weight.  Im not ignoring what they are saying I just disagree with the notion that it will have any lasting change.  Did it bring anybody closer together? Does it draw a light on police brutality? No it just strokes the ego in the fact that I got someone to comply with what I wanted.  Im allowed to have an opinion opposing what the kids want and can still support them.  You have no room for nuance in your point of thinking.  Everything isn't so "Black and White" so to speak.  You are just a victim to the narrative.  We keep electing the same people hoping for change then get mad when it doesn't.  I didn't put into policy that minorities should be treated unequal.  But you don't care.  You will just champion for anything that your narrative supports because it doesn't require you to think.  God forbid someone expressing their mind and give a different opinion.  

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My brain has looked at this and said "Who created this list of grievances?  This sounds like someone besides a college kid."

And that's not minimizing changes that need to happen in this country.  But if we rename every building, institution, entity, etc that wasn't "woke" 25 or 50 or 100 or 150 years ago we're going to change A LOT.   This country is not perfect by any means.  But are we going to change everything? 

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4 hours ago, What? said:

I'm not "reaching," it's right there in the article.  Try fucking reading it

T.J. Finley, who graduated from UT with a bachelor's degree in kinesiology in the spring, stopped singing UT's iconic alma mater completely after being told that the song was first performed by students wearing blackface makeup in a turn-of-the-century minstrel show.

"At first, I was just so shocked that something like this could still exist," said Finley, a graduate student at the Duke University School of Law.

They interviewed multiple people, some who were uncomfortable, some who weren't.  The issue is that you claim that this is only now an issue, when clearly it predates the current situation and invalidates your claim on this point.

You stopped the quote at the point where it supports your point of view.  If anyone actually reads the article all the stuff I said is valid.  You are just cherrypicking the parts you want to express.

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4 hours ago, mdmost said:

You simply do not know this. You are assuming this because you think these players are being used by SJWs, BLM, and other nefarious groups you do not like. What may be more likely is some of the actually did know about this but never felt they had a platform to speak out about it lest they be chastised or lose their spot on the team. Look right at Kaepernick as why they might not have spoke out before. Then George Floyd happens and Herman encourages them to get active and speak out. Or maybe none of them knew about it and after recently learning about it, they have decided to use their high profile platform to speak up about it because it's something they could realistically work on and change to make the University a more welcoming place for everyone. I don't know. You don't know. Maybe we should let the players speak and hear what they have to say. 
 

Kaepernick was going to lose his spot anyway.  It's already been said by multiple sources inside the 49ers.  Him doing what he did was just the nail in the coffin.  Not saying that was justified but thats the way it works in business when you are trying to protect your brand. You're right.  We should listen to the players opinions and what they have to say and Ive done that. I still disagree with them but I support them.  Im not against our players and want them to succeed in football and in life but the idea that I don't agree with them and I think they are kind of being led astray by what the media and their emotions are telling them makes me a bad person is absurd.  I have just as much of a right to my opinion as they do and you guys are acting like I don't.  Get over your bullshit and start having a meaningful conversation.  Because by coming after me like you guys are doing, is only further solidifying my point.  

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6 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

Kaepernick was going to lose his spot anyway.  It's already been said by multiple sources inside the 49ers.  Him doing what he did was just the nail in the coffin.  Not saying that was justified but thats the way it works in business when you are trying to protect your brand. You're right.  We should listen to the players opines and what they have to say and Ive done that. I still disagree with them but I support them.  Im not against our players and want them to succeed in football and in life but the idea that I don't agree with them and I think they are kind of being led astray by what the media and their emotions are telling them makes me a bad person is absurd.  I have just as much of a right to my opinion as they do and you guys are acting like I don't.  Get over your bullshit and start having a meaningful conversation.  Because by coming after me like you guys are doing, is only further solidifying my point.  

No, you haven't as they haven't actually spoke in a medium where you can hear their voices and understand their reasoning for taking this action. Guys signing their names on Instagram or Twitter is not the same as listening to them speak about this. You keep assuming something based on your own perception of BLM and the media. And then you think they're being manipulated. And I'm not saying you're not entitled to an opinion. But we don't have to sit here and listen to you espouse it without responding. If you feel this is coming after you then you're really playing the victim in all this which precisely goes back to the problem. You can't come into this debate with an open mind. You immediately throw up roadblock after roadblock. If you supported them, you would let them say their peace without reservations. You said no at the first step. So when you tell us to get over our bullshit, take a look internally and try to do the same. 

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2 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

Kaepernick was going to lose his spot anyway.  It's already been said by multiple sources inside the 49ers.  Him doing what he did was just the nail in the coffin.  Not saying that was justified but thats the way it works in business when you are trying to protect your brand. You're right.  We should listen to the players opinions and what they have to say and Ive done that. I still disagree with them but I support them.  Im not against our players and want them to succeed in football and in life but the idea that I don't agree with them and I think they are kind of being led astray by what the media and their emotions are telling them makes me a bad person is absurd.  I have just as much of a right to my opinion as they do and you guys are acting like I don't.  Get over your bullshit and start having a meaningful conversation.  Because by coming after me like you guys are doing, is only further solidifying my point.  

I’m not coming after you. I’m disagreeing with your opinion. No one has said you are a bad guy. The harshest I have been was when I said your position was morally bankrupt when you said our players were mentally weak if they are hurt from the song. It is the epitome of not listening to their point of view. They have said the song is hurtful and you say they are mentally weak. How does that support the players? 
 

You have stated you pay a lot of money to the school. Who cares? So do a lot of people. 
 

and when I say your opinion does not hold as much weight, it doesn’t. There is a reason why Dr Beeper is asking what Vince, Earl, Ricky have said on this issue and not you. 

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21 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

My brain has looked at this and said "Who created this list of grievances?  This sounds like someone besides a college kid."

And that's not minimizing changes that need to happen in this country.  But if we rename every building, institution, entity, etc that wasn't "woke" 25 or 50 or 100 or 150 years ago we're going to change A LOT.   This country is not perfect by any means.  But are we going to change everything? 

This essentially boils down to "Solving the problem is hard. Are we sure we want to do that?"

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5 minutes ago, mdmost said:

No, you haven't as they haven't actually spoke in a medium where you can hear their voices and understand their reasoning for taking this action. Guys signing their names on Instagram or Twitter is not the same as listening to them speak about this. You keep assuming something based on your own perception of BLM and the media. And then you think they're being manipulated. yinAnd I'm not saying you're not entitled to an opinion. But we don't have to sit here and listen to you espouse it without responding. If you feel this is coming after you then you're really playing the victim in all this which precisely goes back to the problem. You can't come into this debate with an open mind. You immediately throw up roadblock after roadblock. If you supported them, you would let them say their peace without reservations. You said no at the first step. So when you tell us to get over our bullshit, take a look internally and try to do the same. 

I have let them say their peace and I disagree.  Apparently that's too hard for you to understand.  I don't have to agree to understand what they are talking about or where they are coming from.  Do I think they are influenced regardless of what they say?  Yes.  Because from ages 18-22, which is what most of these guys are, they don't have a fully developed brain and solidified thought patterns to not be completely influenced by the media they consume.  That go's for all of us to a certain degree.  But way more so for developing kids.  Do you agree with every 18-22 year olds ideas about how to make change?  You hear what you want to hear from me and take what I say out of context.  You are the one who is close minded in the since that you can't see how someone can have an opinion that disagrees with what the kids are saying and still support them.  Their is no room for nuance or thinking in your point of view.  It's agree with the mob or you're full of hate.  That requires next to no thinking to come up with that conclusion.  I'm not playing victim to anything.  I just said what happened.  I have an opinion that opposes the players point of view and you guys come after me for it.  That's fine I guess.  My opinion is not immune to scrutiny.  But the execution of the way you guys do it is childish.

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24 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

My brain has looked at this and said "Who created this list of grievances?  This sounds like someone besides a college kid."

And that's not minimizing changes that need to happen in this country.  But if we rename every building, institution, entity, etc that wasn't "woke" 25 or 50 or 100 or 150 years ago we're going to change A LOT.   This country is not perfect by any means.  But are we going to change everything? 

I see it as more of empowering the players to help shape the University so that when they're hosting a recruit, they can walk by the former Littlefield Fountain and say "black players had a major problem with this fountain named after a Klansman so we petitioned the school to change the name, they listened to us, and worked with us to come up with a solution together. We wanted the first player that integrated the football team to have a section of the stadium in his honor and the University agreed to that. That's the university you're looking at and possibly committing your 4 years to. One that cares what you do on the field but also cares a lot about who you are, what you think and what you're concerned with off the field". 

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5 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

FWIW, maybe Texas lost some of the right to bitch about the song complaints when you left a building named after a guy so racist he would not teach black students unchanged until 2020 - when they complained?  Just maybe you forfeited some shit when that happened - like the right to push back as hard on other examples - like the song.   Had you been addressing the other clearly egregious issues earlier, you might have more moral authority to push back on The Eyes issue.  But you didn't.   Maybe this is -  I dunno - more like having to take personal responsibility for doing some undeniably bad shit in the past and failing to correct it till now - even if the consequence of that delay is way more uncomfortable than you'd like.  Or even more uncomfortable than it deserves.   Consequences are not always equal to the original injury.

I know, Gator, not my fight song, blah blah.  Just a thought I had after reading ten pages of this.

You think all Texas students or Texas Exes or Texas fans knew a building on campus, R L Moore, was named after a racist professor?  Th.ey didn't

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Just now, Apex73 said:

I have let them say their peace and I disagree.  Apparently that's too hard for you to understand.  I don't have to agree to understand what they are talking about or where they are coming from.  Do I think they are influenced regardless of what they say?  Yes.  Because from ages 18-22, which is what most of these guys are, they don't have a fully developed brain and solidified thought patterns to not be completely influenced by the media they consume.  That go's for all of us to a certain degree.  But way more so for developing kids.  Do you agree with every 18-22 year olds ideas about how to make change?  You hear what you want to hear from me and take what I say out of context.  You are the one who is close minded in the since that you can't see how someone can have an opinion that disagrees with what the kids are saying and still support them.  Their is no room for nuance or thinking in your point of view.  It's agree with the mob or you're full of hate.  That requires next to no thinking to come up with that conclusion.  I'm not playing victim to anything.  I just said what happened.  I have an opinion that opposes the players point of view and you guys come after me for it.  That's fine I guess.  My opinion is not immune to scrutiny.  But the execution of the way you guys do it is childish.

Man, you really are projecting in a lot of this. There is plenty of room for nuance in my point of view. There's an awful lot of absolutism in your posting that you then want to ascribe to those of us who disagree with you. I mean it's okay to disagree. You seem very upset that we won't just go along with all the stuff that we find objectionable in what you're saying. Again, you seem to really, really enjoy playing the victim here. It'll be okay, trust me. Society will still endure. But the young men of this program are going to have their say whether you like it, understand it, or agree with it. They've earned that right. 

 

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15 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I’m not coming after you. I’m disagreeing with your opinion. No one has said you are a bad guy. The harshest I have been was when I said your position was morally bankrupt when you said our players were mentally weak if they are hurt from the song. It is the epitome of not listening to their point of view. They have said the song is hurtful and you say they are mentally weak. How does that support the players? 
 

You have stated you pay a lot of money to the school. Who cares? So do a lot of people. 
 

and when I say your opinion does not hold as much weight, it doesn’t. There is a reason why Dr Beeper is asking what Vince, Earl, Ricky have said on this issue and not you. 

They are all just humans and don't have the capacity to think logically anymore than any of us.  You do come after me.  You use emotion as a way to navigate your argument instead of actually having a logical adult discussion about the issue.  I will agree when I said everyone who supported this was just pussies looking for witch hunt was out of line. At the end of the day we are all on the same team.  We all bleed orange.  And I still love every one of y'all for that.  I love being apart of this university and I love the fact we can disagree and still have something in common. We want these kids to be successful on and off the field.  I just disagree about the methods and measures they are taking to make a statement that is obvious to the masses.  Hook em.

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1 minute ago, mdmost said:

Man, you really are projecting in a lot of this. There is plenty of room for nuance in my point of view. There's an awful lot of absolutism in your posting that you then want to ascribe to those of us who disagree with you. I mean it's okay to disagree. You seem very upset that we won't just go along with all the stuff that we find objectionable in what you're saying. Again, you seem to really, really enjoy playing the victim here. It'll be okay, trust me. Society will still endure. But the young men of this program are going to have their say whether you like it, understand it, or agree with it. They've earned that right. 

 

I feel the exact same way about you.  I never said they weren't going to have their say or have a problem with them having their say.  I'm saying I don't agree and I told you why.  It's not enough for you to get over that but I explained my valid concerns.  I know society will endure. We are all on the same team at the end of the day.  We all bleed orange. Hook Em.

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1 minute ago, Texas Jeff said:

Not sure if it matters, but the Eyes debuted in 1903 and the Texas Cowboys apparently were founded in 1922.  They didn't exist at the time of the show.

That's not the issue people had/are having. The group that came up with the song and did the performance did it for a minstrel show in blackface. The tradition was kept up by the Texas Cowboys as time went on. According to Armybrat, it kept up until the mid-60s when he was in school and until people rightly protested the "traditional" blackface performances and it stopped. 

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41 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

You stopped the quote at the point where it supports your point of view.  If anyone actually reads the article all the stuff I said is valid.  You are just cherrypicking the parts you want to express.

Then please

 

42 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

You stopped the quote at the point where it supports your point of view.  If anyone actually reads the article all the stuff I said is valid.  You are just cherrypicking the parts you want to express.

Fill in the missing bits for all of us, you disingenuous twat

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57 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

My brain has looked at this and said "Who created this list of grievances?  This sounds like someone besides a college kid."

And that's not minimizing changes that need to happen in this country.  But if we rename every building, institution, entity, etc that wasn't "woke" 25 or 50 or 100 or 150 years ago we're going to change A LOT.   This country is not perfect by any means.  But are we going to change everything? 

It strangely matches the mission statement of BLM on their website. Especially the call to employ black artists.

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1 minute ago, What? said:

Do it again if you are so sure of yourself, show us all.  Disingenuous twat.

I have nothing to prove to you.  You can look back at my first post.  It says word for word what was said in the article.  You make me sick.  Your'e a jackass.

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3 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

I have nothing to prove to you.  You can look back at my first post.  It says word for word what was said in the article.  You make me sick.  Your'e a jackass.

Show the quote that i "cut off." Prove me wrong. Do it. You can't,  snowflake. Move the goalposts again, do it , you disingenuous entitled twat. You've never heard of something,  therefore it can't be valid. Textbook definition of entitled cunt.

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49 minutes ago, What? said:

Show the quote that i "cut off." Prove me wrong. Do it. You can't,  snowflake. Move the goalposts again, do it , you disingenuous entitled twat. You've never heard of something,  therefore it can't be valid. Textbook definition of entitled cunt.

Micheondra Williams, a College of Liberal Arts sociology major, learned about the alma mater's history from a friend.

"I have to admit that I was a little bit shocked to read about the song's history," she said. "But there aren't any words that put me down or degrade me, or make me feel negatively about myself or anyone else."

That's the part you left out. Try to be more professional in the future sir.

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