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AISD's (and other districts) Plans for Schools Starting August 18


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43 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

Glad to see some folks like the RR superintendent have the balls to stand up for what's right rather than pander to political decision making.  I don't have much faith that Cruz will do the same in Austin, as he's already out the door and likely doesn't want to rock any boats that might impact his future plans at UT and beyond.  Will be interesting to see.

I think just about everyone agrees that traditional face to face instruction is the best way to educate kids.  Anyone who thinks that is what's going to happen in schools forced to have kids on campus in August is living in la-la land.  It will be a shit-show of epic proportions resulting in kids getting very little of the value we hope out of it.  Consistency is key with kids.  The current plan will see kids bouncing back and forth between remote and on campus learning for at least the first semester.  That's just nuts.   Remote learning sucks, it sucks bad, and I was very much in the camp of getting them all back to school this fall a month or so ago.  Now that we're in a huge upswing of the spread of this virus, sending kids into a situation that endangers everyone involved, but perhaps more importantly can't possibly be a stable situation, is nothing short of politically driven madness. 

The results of this gamble may well be the implosion of public schools in Texas.  Parents who can do so will be disenrolling their kids in droves to home-school them, or if they're well enough off send them to private school with less political influence, and public schools will suffer.  Even a 5-10% disenrollment would cripple most districts.  And then the kids that some of you profess to care about (those with no options) will be left with an even more disastrous education system.  The rest of us will be left with an even more poorly educated populace to contend with in the future.

I agree that there are no good solutions to this mess.  My post from upthread was merely bemoaning the fact that politics has any place at all in what should be a reasoned decision making process starting first with a priority on the safety of all involved.  Instead, the November election has taken priority as the number one driving force for this decision - and that means everybody loses no matter what.

I think I agree with just about everything you typed here (absent the stuff about Cruz- I have no knowledge of what's going on there).

This seems like a bad time to start up school face to face.  School should have been going face to face last year when we decided to shut down with basically no major cases in the area.  School should be open until the point that society can't handle it anymore.  School should not be open in these conditions with major spreading and whether a school is open or not should not be dictated by Austin, Washington DC or anywhere beyond the local stakeholders in the area.

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42 minutes ago, Gardner Barnes said:

 


I think that opening up elementary schools and keeping older kids home is a very reasonable response and will help with staffing issues as well.

However it is not politically acceptable.

 

Yep.  This is totally and completely not awesome, but it does help greatly with those least able to distance learn (or fend for themselves) and would be miles better than a 1 size fits all approach of cancelling all of school.

It would have the added benefit of mom and dad being able to go back to work all day, leaving the teenagers to themselves to raid the liquor cabinets and make babies. 

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1 hour ago, Samson's Wig said:

The results of this gamble may well be the implosion of public schools in Texas. 

There's over 5 million kids in Texas schools.  That's a lot of soccer moms.  There's a little shindig going on in November.  I think the state leadership will back down.

1 hour ago, Samson's Wig said:

Parents who can do so will be disenrolling their kids in droves to home-school them, or if they're well enough off send them to private school with less political influence,

Private schools are having problems - there's been a few close down for good here in Austin, including I think the Smith Academy or whatever, that's been around for 40 years.   Private schools have a lot harder time staying profitable/afloat when their class sizes are drastically reduced, either with kids staying home, or with reducing the student/teacher ratio.

1 hour ago, Samson's Wig said:

I agree that there are no good solutions to this mess.  My post from upthread was merely bemoaning the fact that politics has any place at all in what should be a reasoned decision making process starting first with a priority on the safety of all involved.  Instead, the November election has taken priority as the number one driving force for this decision - and that means everybody loses no matter what.

I think many districts are going to fight for the health of their community (I know, "duh" given that the districts are run by the communities).  If you told me that Round Rock, and then Fort Bend, would be leading the way on fighting the state, I would have asked what you were smoking, and if I could have any.

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1 hour ago, Gardner Barnes said:

The main assertion in your article - that children under 12 don’t spread the disease as readily as adults and thus we should reopen schools completely ignores the fact that there are children over 12 that attend public school systems.

 

 

It also incorrectly assumes that at risk populations - such as SPED kids should stay at home and do remote learning. This is the opposite of what needs to happen.

 

I’m sure the author is an excellent physician and statistician. But his understanding of specific needs within an education system are weak.

That’s a fair critique. He doesn’t delineate between different age groups in the school opening discussion, although the main he study cited looked at under 16 year olds. I’m guessing he’s just doing this in addition to his usual clinical duties. If he thought of it being disseminated for pseudo public consumption he’d probably be clearer. 
 

As far as SPED kids go, these are all risk-reward calculations. With such small amounts of data on even healthy kids, it seems like recommendations for  “at risk” populations are as conservative as possible until there’s more data. 
 

1 hour ago, Gardner Barnes said:

 


I think that opening up elementary schools and keeping older kids home is a very reasonable response and will help with staffing issues as well.

However it is not politically acceptable.

 

 

33 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Yep.  This is totally and completely not awesome, but it does help greatly with those least able to distance learn (or fend for themselves) and would be miles better than a 1 size fits all approach of cancelling all of school.

It would have the added benefit of mom and dad being able to go back to work all day, leaving the teenagers to themselves to raid the liquor cabinets and make babies. 

I think I agree with both of you for the most part, although maybe allowing middle school to go. 
 

I shared the original column because I haven’t seen much discussion of any data regarding this issue. It’s essentially either “open that shit up!” Or “you want people to die!” 

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2 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

That’s a fair critique. He doesn’t delineate between different age groups in the school opening discussion, although the main he study cited looked at under 16 year olds. I’m guessing he’s just doing this in addition to his usual clinical duties. If he thought of it being disseminated for pseudo public consumption he’d probably be clearer. 
 

As far as SPED kids go, these are all risk-reward calculations. With such small amounts of data on even healthy kids, it seems like recommendations for  “at risk” populations are as conservative as possible until there’s more data. 
 

 

I think I agree with both of you for the most part, although maybe allowing middle school to go. 
 

I shared the original column because I haven’t seen much discussion of any data regarding this issue. It’s essentially either “open that shit up!” Or “you want people to die!” 

Middle schoolers can raid the liquor cabinet and practice making babies too. At my second district they’d catch middle school kids fucking during recess out in the ditch. I say kids, bc that was told to me by a teacher over there, I’d be surprised if it happened more than once or twice. 

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How about outdoor instruction? Schools generally sit on big properties. Everyone agrees the safest way to conduct social interaction is outdoors. Why are the school systems not talking about this? Weather is an obstacle, but there are ways to plan around it (details of which not the point of post). 

If I were a parent and you laid out these two options (oversimplification alert): 

a) kid goes to school some days, sits in classrooms but class size is reduced, people wear masks, there are one way halls, social distancing guidelines, etc.
b) kid goes to school some days, all classes are outdoors (lunch too), still social distancing rules 

I’m going with option b, right? 

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7 minutes ago, Bruno Sardine said:

How about outdoor instruction? Schools generally sit on big properties. Everyone agrees the safest way to conduct social interaction is outdoors. Why are the school systems not talking about this? Weather is an obstacle, but there are ways to plan around it (details of which not the point of post). 

If I were a parent and you laid out these two options (oversimplification alert): 

a) kid goes to school some days, sits in classrooms but class size is reduced, people wear masks, there are one way halls, social distancing guidelines, etc.
b) kid goes to school some days, all classes are outdoors (lunch too), still social distancing rules 

I’m going with option b, right? 

outdoor options are being discussed but the weather is a HUGE factor.  

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11 minutes ago, Bruno Sardine said:

How about outdoor instruction? Schools generally sit on big properties. Everyone agrees the safest way to conduct social interaction is outdoors. Why are the school systems not talking about this? Weather is an obstacle, but there are ways to plan around it (details of which not the point of post). 

If I were a parent and you laid out these two options (oversimplification alert): 

a) kid goes to school some days, sits in classrooms but class size is reduced, people wear masks, there are one way halls, social distancing guidelines, etc.
b) kid goes to school some days, all classes are outdoors (lunch too), still social distancing rules 

I’m going with option b, right? 

Outdoor instruction in Texas during August/September/October?

L. O. L.

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I wonder how feasible it would be to allow those who can to take a 100% online option, but those who want to do in-person instruction have a flex schedule. Half of the in-person students have the A schedule and the other half have the B schedule. A and B schedules alternate days on campus. One week, A schedule will be on campus 3 days a week, B schedule 2, the next week B for 3, A for 2, and so on and so forth. 

There is no perfect solution out there, but we need uniformity across the state. If all parents are in the same boat as far as childcare and scheduling, that sets a state-wide expectation that will allow employers to adapt. Also, it will force companies with a national footprint to adapt to Texas, rather than pressure employees to make decisions they are uncomfortable with due to Texas being so varied all the way down to the ISD level. 

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5 hours ago, GRHorn said:

I’m sharing this in a few threads because there is some pertinent info. It’s from an infectious disease specialist for a large hospital system that’s been charged with compiling relevant Covid studies on a regular basis. I think his commentaries are reasonable.

=====

The UK’s Royal College of Pediatrics and Child Health has warned that leaving schools closed “risks scarring the life chances of a generation of young people.”

That's a little dramatic.  For starters, we shouldn't be talking about an extraordinarily long time.  In addition, kids up and down the grade chain would suffer similarly.

That said, we can learn some things from school districts that have suffered extraordinary natural disasters:  the most obvious is New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina.  New Orleans schools basically shut down in August for an entire school year, with only a few schools on higher ground opening earlier.

What they found was that kids tended to fall behind by as much as 2 years for that lost year, especially in math.  That's bad.  That's real bad.  BUT, and this is a big BUT, there was no virtual learning available in 2005.  Some parents no doubt tried to step in and fill the void, but I doubt there was any widespread success in that regard.  I'm sure the schools mailed out at least skeletal curricula, but again, good luck with that.

So, for one year off campus, kids fell behind as much as two years in some subjects.  That's probably the worst case scenario from an academic standpoint.  I think it's reasonable to assume that (a) lessons were learned from Katrina and (b) virtual learning will be more effective.  Couple that with what would hopefully be less than a year off campus, and I just don't see this crippling effect taking hold, especially since all kids will be suffering the same fate.  Of course, I'm not addressing the very real likelihood that more affluent families will be able to deal with this thing better than those in the lower and middle class.  

This brings us to social issues.  I'll be less verbose:  going back to school this fall will not in any way be like it was last February.  Kids will not be nurtured emotionally and physically in the same way.  Not even close.  Will it help to see friends and classmates?  I'm sure it will.  Will it be a robust social environment?  Not a chance in hell.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it's more damaging than not.

 

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4 hours ago, smoky said:

I think Denmark and Finland (?) opened up schools, but only for elementary kids

Middle and highschool kids stayed home, which makes sense for two reasons. Those kids can conceivably do distance learning well and they spread the virus.

I just don't get the sense that we're looking at all options, including those that other countries have tried and I supposed have been successful at.

I think Israel opened up schools and failed, so let's not do what they did.

This idea has merit.  Could even use empty MS and HS campuses to spread out the elementary kids. 

 

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24 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

This idea has merit.  Could even use empty MS and HS campuses to spread out the elementary kids. 

 

DISD was toying with this idea. Secondary kids stay home and do online. Elementary kids are all spread through the now empty secondary schools. They ditched the idea and went with you can either opt for in-home or in-school learning this year. I'd imagine the logistics of getting kids to different schools was a bit much. If you say one grade goes here and another goes there, you're screwing up families who have different age kids in different schools.

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Gauntlet being thrown down or line crossed or something.

https://www.kxan.com/news/coronavirus/health-authority-in-person-teaching-could-lead-to-between-40-and-1370-student-deaths-in-travis-county/

Quote

Tuesday, Austin Public Health Interim Health Authority Dr. Mark Escott told Travis County Commissioners that Austin area schools should not start until Sept. 8 unless they can offer online-only classes.

Escott said we worked with the superintendents of Travis County districts to decide to recommend delaying or going completely online for the start of school.

Quote

Escott said doing so before a vaccine becomes available and before schools are able to put in place more protective measures would put Travis County’s 192,000 students in jeopardy — especially those between the ages of 10 to 19 years old.

“Somewhere in the neighborhood of 70% of students could be infected over the course of this disease,” Escott said, “which in that .03% to 1.02%, for Travis County, would equate to between 40 and 1,370 deaths in that age group.”

Quote

Escott based that on the current fatality rate estimates for that age group. He said the situation could be worse for teachers and staff.

Quote

Escott also said schools should consider a “default position of virtual instruction” for the entire fall semester so that districts don’t have to go through the process of opening then closing then opening back up again.

Quote

Escott said he would be meeting with the City of Austin attorney and the Travis County attorney Tuesday to discuss these recommendations further.

 

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1 hour ago, Js1 said:

Outdoor instruction in Texas during August/September/October?

L. O. L.

I mean, sure. It doesn't have to be in the blazing sun, though. It certainly isn't an appetizing option, but I grew up in Texas and attended summer camps and we survived without A/C. But perhaps you're right and few would be willing to try it. 

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12 minutes ago, Bruno Sardine said:

I mean, sure. It doesn't have to be in the blazing sun, though. It certainly isn't an appetizing option, but I grew up in Texas and attended summer camps and we survived without A/C. But perhaps you're right and few would be willing to try it. 

it's one thing to be outdoors and playing, it's another to be outdoors and trying to learn long division. 

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6 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

it's one thing to be outdoors and playing, it's another to be outdoors and trying to learn long division. 

One of the camps I went to, Pine Cove, had study hours. We sat in the shade of a tree, read guess what, actually had some thoughtful and serious discussions. And it was hotter than Hades, let me tell you. 

An in person setting will always trump an online setting – unless, of course, it is so effing hot you can’t think straight. But there are ways to mitigate the heat, that’s what I’m saying. People realize, of course, humanity existed prior to the advent of air conditioning. Once upon a time, kids actually went to school indoors with no A/C in the brutal Texas heat. There are so many things you can do in person. It is superior to online instruction. If a teacher wants to, if it’s a school whose campus features a fair amount of shade trees or covered walkways or just whatever, if there are kids willing to try it, if there are parents willing to try it, then why would anyone object? 

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20 minutes ago, Bruno Sardine said:

One of the camps I went to, Pine Cove, had study hours. We sat in the shade of a tree, read guess what, actually had some thoughtful and serious discussions. And it was hotter than Hades, let me tell you. 

An in person setting will always trump an online setting – unless, of course, it is so effing hot you can’t think straight. But there are ways to mitigate the heat, that’s what I’m saying. People realize, of course, humanity existed prior to the advent of air conditioning. Once upon a time, kids actually went to school indoors with no A/C in the brutal Texas heat. There are so many things you can do in person. It is superior to online instruction. If a teacher wants to, if it’s a school whose campus features a fair amount of shade trees or covered walkways or just whatever, if there are kids willing to try it, if there are parents willing to try it, then why would anyone object? 

I just looked at my app and it said that it's "one hundred and fuck" out right now. No way in hell kids could do outside learning in the shade in this heat. No fucking way

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24 minutes ago, Bruno Sardine said:

One of the camps I went to, Pine Cove, had study hours. We sat in the shade of a tree, read guess what, actually had some thoughtful and serious discussions. And it was hotter than Hades, let me tell you. 

An in person setting will always trump an online setting – unless, of course, it is so effing hot you can’t think straight. But there are ways to mitigate the heat, that’s what I’m saying. People realize, of course, humanity existed prior to the advent of air conditioning. Once upon a time, kids actually went to school indoors with no A/C in the brutal Texas heat. There are so many things you can do in person. It is superior to online instruction. If a teacher wants to, if it’s a school whose campus features a fair amount of shade trees or covered walkways or just whatever, if there are kids willing to try it, if there are parents willing to try it, then why would anyone object? 

i went to pine cove in the 90s.  loved it there, there's shade all over.  

 

no one's outright objecting to learning outside.  like i said in a previous post, it is an option that's being considered but there are several issues.

- would the classroom be permanently located outdoors?  would it be an alternative for part of the day to being indoors?  if only being a part time alternative why even bother?

- shade.  the vast majority of schools do not have grand oak trees (or thickets of pine trees a la east texas). they have a shade covering the playground.  classes could be held there but there will be kids out for recess between 10a to 1p.  

- what teaching materials would teachers use outside?  if it's just a period of reading aloud that would work.  but actual lessons that need a whiteboard or other teaching aids would be tricky.

-  spacing.  even outdoors a class would need to sit in 3 ft radius circles.  is there enough shaded space for a class?  

- comfort.  the biggest factor.  being in the shade is bearable for a very short while when it's in the high 90s.  doing that while having a mask on and trying to concentrate on someone teaching gets uncomfortable really fast.  and the teacher doing the actual teaching with a mask on could literally be putting her health at risk. 

 

my wife's district is allowing schools to figure out indoor/outdoor spacing.  the problem is zero schools have enough shaded areas to make this happen.  

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I know a lot (and perhaps most?) were likely discussing this going back several months, but I am truly shocked so many administrators and districts seemingly just started this planning-for-contingency process within the last few weeks instead of way back in March/April.  

At the very least, some of the better alternatives could have been floated out to the general public sooner so both administrators and parents could provide feedback and start planning accordingly. 

What a mess this has become. 

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9 minutes ago, Chet Steadman said:

I know a lot (and perhaps most?) were likely discussing this going back several months, but I am truly shocked so many administrators and districts seemingly just started this planning-for-contingency process within the last few weeks instead of way back in March/April.  

At the very least, some of the better alternatives could have been floated out to the general public sooner so both administrators and parents could provide feedback and start planning accordingly. 

What a mess this has become. 

Yep. 
On some level though, at least for people on this board that are actively engaged in this, it should have been apparent that this was coming down the pike. 
Really really sad times in so many ways. 

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34 minutes ago, Chet Steadman said:

I know a lot (and perhaps most?) were likely discussing this going back several months, but I am truly shocked so many administrators and districts seemingly just started this planning-for-contingency process within the last few weeks instead of way back in March/April.  

Why would they? Every signal they got from state and federal education agencies was that it's full steam ahead, damn the torpedos. Just chickens coming home to roost.

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1 hour ago, Bruno Sardine said:

I mean, sure. It doesn't have to be in the blazing sun, though. It certainly isn't an appetizing option, but I grew up in Texas and attended summer camps and we survived without A/C. But perhaps you're right and few would be willing to try it. 

isn't Rice building circus tents outside for classes?  source is something i may or may not have seen on twitter, so it's legit

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I think a lot of districts were jotting down concepts for the fall back in April, but couldn't really flesh them out because: they were drowning as it was trying to finish the spring in a new environment; the situation has changed sometimes daily on the medical front; districts wanted to collect evidence from overseas on what was working or not in those countries; they also wanted to survey parents and teachers over the summer before determining the best course. It will still be a shitshow almost everywhere

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1 hour ago, Chet Steadman said:

I know a lot (and perhaps most?) were likely discussing this going back several months, but I am truly shocked so many administrators and districts seemingly just started this planning-for-contingency process within the last few weeks instead of way back in March/April.  

At the very least, some of the better alternatives could have been floated out to the general public sooner so both administrators and parents could provide feedback and start planning accordingly. 

What a mess this has become. 

They have been planning since May at least.  The reason it seems like they haven't is just nobody has a solution that includes social distancing and contact tracing that will make anyone happy.  We've been repeatedly told by "experts" that the most risk is from being in a crowded indoor space for long periods of time i.e., a classroom. Is it any wonder teachers are worried?  Oversimplifying, It just kind of boils down to it's business as usual,  or you go virtual.  When you try to combine social distancing, contact tracing,  daily well checks,  and a significant number of teachers who are very concerned about putting themselves at risk, the logistics just get overwhelming, and you realize you will just be opening and closing constantly.  Nobody is happy with the schools because there is no good answer.  We were told summer and heat would mitigate the effect of the virus. That didn't happen. Will it be worse in the fall/winter? Nobody knows.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, swraith said:

I got the email. The scramble for the fall semester begins. Can’t decide if we just write off school till January and make other plans...or keep waiting/hoping for a miracle.

I'm writing off school until they're able to do it 100% in-person.  Online was a worthless disaster for my kids and they're straight A+ students.  High school kids might have the tools to manage it, but middle and elementary just don't.

 

 

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2 hours ago, gyroprotagonist said:

isn't Rice building circus tents outside for classes?  source is something i may or may not have seen on twitter, so it's legit

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If it's good enough for scaffolders at the plant in July, it's good enough for Mason and Ava.

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40 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Good. Hopefully DISD follows AISD’s lead. It will buy us more time to figure out a plan that works.

There is no plan that works. Other than a vaccine and/or this thing going away. Go read John Lockes post. I assume he’s inside and connected. That’s your answer. 

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39 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

There is no plan that works. Other than a vaccine and/or this thing going away. Go read John Lockes post. I assume he’s inside and connected. That’s your answer. 

It buys time. Time to see if the numbers are going down and not making our kids a bunch of lab rats and Covid carriers. If the numbers are going down, it gives DISD a better idea to see if in-person is feasible. If they are still high, we go virtual for another month. 

Plus Abbott weighed in that he's going to give districts more time.

Quote

"Texas will give school districts more flexibility to keep their school buildings closed to in-person instruction this fall as coronavirus cases continue to rise, Gov. Greg Abbott told a Houston television station Tuesday."

 

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  • hayden_horn changed the title to AISD's (and other districts) Plans for Schools Starting August 18

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