Jump to content

Brothahorn's Conservative Thread


Brothahorn

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Magnet programs are usually used to prop up an underperforming school, and in my experience attending a public magnet school, it was a great experience. It got me out of my bubble and let me make friends with people from other socio-econimic groups my parents wouldn't have put me around otherwise.

Magnet schools are not charter schools.

Fair enough.  My post regarding reading, and hearing reports about charter schools stands.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Shit, I know that magnet programs increase kids overall test scores. I've seen (and heard several NPR based reports) those studies as well.

Low achievers go to the magnet programs, right?

Both of my kids' SAT and ACT scores all improved throughout high school.

It's a normal fucking progression.  In the military academy application process the number one thing they tell candidates:  keep taking the tests and improve your scores.  Miraculously, almost all of them improve...

Edited by slorch
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Poolflood said:

Agree.  Cat made a very specific claim I was questioning.

While there are a number of articles written by left leaning writers detailing my claim I figured they wouldn't be persuasive to someone who is conservative or neutral on the issue.  So here's an article by noted conservative David French conceding that it was the initial organizing catalyst, but leaders realized that it alone wouldn't be a winning issue to galvanize a widespread movement so ultimately they develop a full pallet or organizing principles to appeal to a wider Christian audience. The word I used was catalyst which to me implies that it fueled the beginnings of  the movement. 

https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/fact-and-fiction-about-racism-and

 

His contention is curious because that's the exact same thing the article he's disagreeing with (same article that @elfenixresponded to you with) claimed as well. 

 

Edited by Catdaddyhorn
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

While there are a number of articles written by left leaning writers detailing my claim I figured they wouldn't be persuasive to someone who is conservative or neutral on the issue.  So here's an article by noted conservative David French conceding that it was the initial organizing catalyst, but leaders realized that it alone wouldn't be a winning issue to galvanize a widespread movement so ultimately they develop a full pallet or organizing principles to appeal to a wider Christian audience. The word I used was catalyst which to me implies that it fueled the beginnings of  the movement. 

https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/fact-and-fiction-about-racism-and

 

His contention is curious because that's the exact same thing the article he's disagreeing with (same article that @elfenixresponded to you with) claimed as well. 

 

So ummmm. 

Quote

So, what is the truth here? Does the pro-life movement have racist roots? The short answer is “not really.” The longer answer is complicated. 

His summary is that there's an overlap of southern racists and evangelicals in the 60's and 70's.  That's a long way from your claim

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Poolflood said:

So ummmm. 

His summary is that there's an overlap of southern racists and evangelicals in the 60's and 70's.  That's a long way from your claim

 

He concedes that it motivated Fallwell and Weyrich who were pretty much the founders of the religious right.  After all, just a decade before the recognized beginning of the religious right,  Falwell argued vehemently against MLK and others saying that clergy shouldn't be involved in national politics.  Regardless of whether you buy his argument, substantive points can be made supporting Balmer's thesis just as French eloquently argued against it. You still have to admit that the idea that evangelicals were once neutral if not supportive of abortion seems wholly antithetical to anything most of us have grown up with. So that bit of news was a big revelation the first time I came across it. 

 

Here's the original work on the topic produced by the Dartmouth prof Randall Balmer.

https://www.sas.upenn.edu/andrea-mitchell-center/sites/www.sas.upenn.edu.andrea-mitchell-center/files/Balmer - Historian's Pickaxe.pdf

Edited by Catdaddyhorn
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

You still have to admit that the idea that evangelicals were once neutral if not supportive of abortion seems wholly antithetical to anything most of us have grown up with.

Politics around abortion in this country is an interesting story arc. Read a bit on Sanger and her beliefs. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven’t had time yet to read the links yet, so maybe it’s addressed there. I have little doubt that the consensus view of abortion among the more vehement pro-life denominations today (eg, SBC) has shifted in a relatively short period of time to the hardline stance we all know today.
 

What I haven’t seen addressed (again, I don’t know if it’s in the links above yet) is how much comes from shifting attitudes (SBC members becoming pro-life) or shifting memberships (there are many groups that are formerly SBC that have split for various reasons). What you hear from diehard SBCers today is that there was a protracted battle for the soul of the SBC between liberals and conservatives and the conservatives won (meaning the liberals SBCers are now something else).
 

Basically, did how much of it was a changing viewpoint (members changing from pro-choice to pro-life) and how much of it was changing alignments and populations (pro-choicers going elsewhere and pro-lifers flocking yo these denominations)? It’s probably a little of both, but getting an idea of how much might alter the perception of what went on.

Edited by Mole
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Curious that in these times of appropriate reflection on the racist history of American institutions, Planned parenthood has managed to fly right under the radar. 

well, the pro-lifers see it as a travesty.  The pro-choicers see it as a celebration of women's rights.   They both are absolutely right from their perspective.

The demographics you are alluding to with regard to PP could be either tragic as hell or cause for celebration/ optimism.

Edited by slorch
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, slorch said:

well, the pro-lifers see it as a travesty.  The pro-choicers see it as a celebration of women's rights.   They both are absolutely right from their perspective.

The demographics you are alluding to with regard to PP could be either tragic as hell or liberating.

PP isn't just an abortion clinic, for many communities it's the only place women can go see an OBGYN and take care of their health needs

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Captainant said:

PP isn't just an abortion clinic, for many communities it's the only place women can go see an OBGYN and take care of their health needs

I understand.  No dispute whatsoever.

The elephant in the room is the fact that a black woman is twice as likely as other races to have an abortion.  I stand by my statement, that depending upon one's perspective, it's either terrible or beautiful and both opinions could be correct.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

He concedes that it motivated Fallwell and Weyrich who were pretty much the founders of the religious right.  After all, just a decade before the recognized beginning of the religious right,  Falwell argued vehemently against MLK and others saying that clergy shouldn't be involved in national politics.  Regardless of whether you buy his argument, substantive points can be made supporting Balmer's thesis just as French eloquently argued against it. You still have to admit that the idea that evangelicals were once neutral if not supportive of abortion seems wholly antithetical to anything most of us have grown up with. So that bit of news was a big revelation the first time I came across it. 

 

Here's the original work on the topic produced by the Dartmouth prof Randall Balmer.

https://www.sas.upenn.edu/andrea-mitchell-center/sites/www.sas.upenn.edu.andrea-mitchell-center/files/Balmer - Historian's Pickaxe.pdf

It adds nuance but still a far cry from your assertion to which I reacted.  But do appreciate the information.  

Segregation roots, formally and informally, are deep seated and ugly across both parties.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

8 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Politics around abortion in this country is an interesting story arc. Read a bit on Sanger and her beliefs. 

Do you mean actually, or just recite Republican catechesis?

8 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Especially aborted ones. 

Evidently the latter.

7 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Curious that in these times of appropriate reflection on the racist history of American institutions, Planned parenthood has managed to fly right under the radar. 

Yeah, nobody ever talks about Planned Parenthood or it's founder, Donald. 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I heard PP was selling aborted body parts a few years ago, from a guy at work who is super alt-right. He claimed there was video evidence of it, but whether true or untrue I’ve always had that image/thought in my mind when I hear PP.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

We're all eugenicists now, dawg. 

To be fair to eugenicists, we let our dumb people breed and look what resulted.

Of course, every other country let their dumb breed as well and most are doing much better, so the problem is probably something else. I blame Oklahoma.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

Consequences of breeding from stock lacking human vitality always will give us social problems and perpetuate institutions of charity and crime.

 

Who said it?

gohmert_1.jpg?w=990

 

OR

15987837730_9a6875eb40_b.jpg.png?itok=Zi

Wow, a social progressive was also bought into eugenics in the 1920's and 30s? GTFO

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Damn Annie, who pissed in your Cheerios this morning?

Shit man.  This is just me having a laugh with you chuckle fucks before I make brunch for the kids (Sanger-approved offspring the result of superior human vitality, imo). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Whatever it takes to help you see by reflection how shallow the initial statement was. 

Your initial statement? Absolutely. I'm not defending or excusing eugenics and the politics of race and birth control in the 1920's are most certainly intertwined, but the idea that it has somehow evaded attention or that Margaret Sanger's involvement with blacks can be shorthanded to abortion is unserious partisan garbage. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I'm not defending or excusing eugenics

You just did, by attempting to dismiss criticism with a hand wave and a contemporary context argument.

Race is intertwined with just about every aspect of American society and politics.  Some of those intersections get amplified focus and are currently subject to an overdue critical eye, others...well...you the man now, dog. 

Edited by Anastasis
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

You just did, by attempting to dismiss criticism with a hand wave and a contemporary context argument.

Race is intertwined with just about every aspect of American society and politics.  Some of those intersections get amplified focus and are currently subject to an overdue critical eye, others...well...you the man now, dog. 

No, I didn't. I just said it is the context. So Take it up with WEB Du Bois, because there was a lot of that going around in those days.  Was he mostly trying to abort blacks through his involvement with the birth control movement? Context matters.  
16e5b6a56c2c4aedb3274e7124f3006e.jpg

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

No, I didn't. I just said it is the context. So Take it up with WEB Du Bois, because there was a lot of that going around in those days.  Was he mostly trying to abort blacks through his involvement with the birth control movement? Context matters.  
16e5b6a56c2c4aedb3274e7124f3006e.jpg


WEB Du Bois advocated class-based eugenics like Margaret Sanger? 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Anastasis said:


WEB Du Bois advocated class-based eugenics like Margaret Sanger? 

 

 

You know what, if PP just stopped the whole abortion thing, then a lot of people would stop arguing about its existence. 

Edited by workswithseed
It's is not its
Link to comment
Share on other sites



×
×
  • Create New...