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11 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

You're right that change takes time.....but goddamn, they've waited a long goddamned time.  And MLK made a strong point from an Alabama jail cell:

How long?  How long do THEY need to wait, when WE (the folks in power) are the ones who have the power to act and need to act?

And as for "there seem to be enough people that agree that change needs to take place"....not so fast, my friend.  Let's not go far down the Cloak Room trail, but you and I damned well know that there are a shitload of people in power -- some of the highest seats of power -- who aren't just not helping the cause, they are actively fighting AGAINST it -- we need MORE militarized police, cracking MORE skulls, and the cops need MORE money to arrest MORE people.  No, the battle for opinion is not only not won, I think it's lost.

So, they have to wait forever....and the signals from the halls of power say "get fucked."  There is no hope, only "the abyss of despair."  More cities will burn.  More people will die.  Because this is how WE WANT IT TO BE.

don't worry you only have 2 more months of this, then it will disappear.

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Any owner that cares about their business right now is a racist.  There's insurance for a reason?  What's more important to you,justice or money?  Let the carnage happen....for justice and equality.  Where's the fist in the air icon?  Come on Surly,it's an inexpensive add on.
Don't. Don't stoop to the level of that small minority that believes that.
You’ve never met South Austin’s mom.
Dunno. Every time we've hooked up after last call she gave me the clap.
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15 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

You're right that change takes time.....but goddamn, they've waited a long goddamned time.  And MLK made a strong point from an Alabama jail cell:

Police reform will benefit ALL.  I'm tired of seeing posts that it's one part of the population that has problems with police.  It's the same with poor whites and immigrants.  Yes, BLM is very important and black people as a whole need to be treated better but their treatment is only part of the overall problem.

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I think most to all people on that side of the issue would agree with you. Contextually, BLM comes up when police murder black folk. Contextually, white guy walking towards police with a long rifle in a protest gets thrown a bottle of water by the police, black man walking away from police to his car after trying to break up a fight at a barbecue gets thrown seven bullets. I think a lot of people see BLM and understand it as "only black lives matter", or hear people talking about the problems that black americans have with the police and read it as "only black people have problems with the police". I think that very frequently ("defund the police" being a glaring example) people trying to organize movements on that side of the spectrum are very bad at marketing their ideas. When it comes to what is described above, I don't think that that's where you can put the blame. There's no reason to read into discussion of black lives mattering or black problems with the police a notion that white lives don't matter or that everything is a-ok with everyone else and the police.

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1 minute ago, VABuckeye said:

Police reform will benefit ALL.  I'm tired of seeing posts that it's one part of the population that has problems with police.  It's the same with poor whites and immigrants.  Yes, BLM is very important and black people as a whole need to be treated better but their treatment is only part of the overall problem.

Oh, I agree -- shit, I advise my kids to deal with the cops the same way that a black family would and should.  And I've had my own run-ins with police that were utter bullshit in the way the cops handled themselves.

But we also can't deny that the issue is particularly acute when it comes to black people -- my kids aren't hassled by the cops they are waiting in a nice hotel lobby to meet a friend, my black law school classmate was.  My kids aren't pulled over by the cops for driving through our neighborhood because they "don't belong here."  Black kids are.

So, part of an overall problem, but an acute problem with respect to a particular segment of our population.  That said, the fact that poor white people and black people have been pitted against each other for 200+ years, as opposed to being what they are -- natural allies -- is testament to the power of the politics of division.

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10 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

Police reform will benefit ALL.  I'm tired of seeing posts that it's one part of the population that has problems with police.  It's the same with poor whites and immigrants.  Yes, BLM is very important and black people as a whole need to be treated better but their treatment is only part of the overall problem.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone on this site who disagrees with you. But looting/shooting/getting in people's face is not how you "win" average people to your cause.

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3 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Contextually, white guy walking towards police with a long rifle in a protest gets thrown a bottle of water by the police, black man walking away (after resisting a taser, fighting them off of him, and allegedly (tbd) carrying a knife that's only purpose is to maim) from police to his car after trying to break up a fight at a barbecue gets thrown seven bullets.

Dude was not just strolling to his car.  Right or wrong, you cannot have a physical altercation with police, then resist their commands, then dig thru your car without getting shot. White, black, purple.

3 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

I think that very frequently ("defund the police" being a glaring example) people trying to organize movements on that side of the spectrum are very bad at marketing their ideas.

I would say BLM has an amazing ability to market.  If you don't fall lock step with them, you are a racist.  If you don't let your building or property be destroyed for the cause, you are a racist.  Hell, if your business is just a little too Cuban in an area they don't deem needs to be, you are a racist.  Can't eat dinner on a patio in peace, you fucking racist.  Imagine another group that does that, and has the NBA painting your logo on the court.  They have one hell of a marketing plan.

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8 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Don't. Don't stoop to the level of that small minority that believes that.

Thanks for that.  It's a bullshit position that nobody with any semblance of credibility believes.  It's used to dismiss an entire movement, and it's bullshit.

4 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

The current state of the police is that any perceived threat is met with heavy force.  It's a shoot first and sort it out later type of law enforcement.

 

And this.  It's an utterly broken culture.  When a culture decides that it is at war with, literally everyone else in the country (that's what a "war on cops" mentality means -- everyone is to be treated as the enemy), then that's a self-fulfilling worldview.  While being a cop is more dangerous and stressful than being a barista, it's not the most dangerous job in the world -- not even close.  And it's far from patrolling the streets of Fallujah during active combat.

But the issues go deeper than that.  It's not just about violence and brutality, it's about abuse of power, and contempt for the people.  It's about lying on police reports and on the stand, with impunity because your fellow officers will back up your lie instead of following the law (which of course forbids lying on an official report or under oath), it's about systemically targeting minorities for harassment (in hotel lobbies, driving down the road, etc.), it's about a thousand other things that flow out of those twin problems of "always side with a fellow cop" and "minorities get particular scrutiny."

My law school buddy was abused by the cops not because they beat or shot him, but because they kicked him out of a Sheraton lobby where he was waiting to meet his college buddy to go have a drink.  We have to fix that, too.  Sure, fixing the fact that the cops beat and shoot people is a higher priority, but I think that solving those problems goes hand-in-hand.

Where we are today, though, all goes back to despair and an utter lack of hope.  Real-world proof has told black America and anyone who sympathizes with them that nothing will work -- peaceful demonstrations, civil disobedience, shit, even rioting.  NOTHING works.  The powers that be just dig in and become further entrenched.  So, what are they and we supposed to do?  I ask, seriously, when you set up that dynamic....what outcome should you expect?  How about this sentiment: "if I can't have a decent and functioning society, fuck you, NOBODY can -- burn it all down?"  Do you think that there are people out there who have reached that point? I do.  I think that fucking sucks.

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5 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone on this site who disagrees with you. But looting/shooting/getting in people's face is not how you "win" average people to your cause.

That indeed should be the case.  But.....

4 minutes ago, Continental Op said:

PROTEST PEACEFULLY!!!

Black Athletes:  *peacefully kneel during anthem*

NOT LIKE THAT!!!!!!!

That's a real problem.  If we as a society want to send the message to an aggrieved population of "protest peacefully, and we will listen," then our previous message of "fuck your peaceful protests, get that sonofabitch off the field!" I gotta tell ya, man.....that's a pretty mixed message.  You know what the REAL message is, when you send that mixed message?  It's "shut up, we don't care what you think, we're not gonna change a fucking thing, and you best just shut up and take it."  Understandably, that message frustrates and pisses off the people it's directed at.  

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3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Where we are today, though, all goes back to despair and an utter lack of hope.  Real-world proof has told black America and anyone who sympathizes with them that nothing will work -- peaceful demonstrations, civil disobedience, shit, even rioting.  NOTHING works.  The powers that be just dig in and become further entrenched.  So, what are they and we supposed to do?  I ask, seriously, when you set up that dynamic....what outcome should you expect?  How about this sentiment: "if I can't have a decent and functioning society, fuck you, NOBODY can -- burn it all down?"  Do you think that there are people out there who have reached that point? I do.  I think that fucking sucks.

Just as that one woman said, "they've broken the social contract."

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It’s starts at home and how you’re raised but no one wants to have that convo.  No one wants to address these dumbasses with rap sheets a mile along of violent actions fighting the cops disobeying commands and running to the car because personal accountability just doesn’t fall in line with societal views.   At this day in age with all the media coverage if your dumbass decides you wanna test some dumbass cop fight them and keep it real. Real is gonna get kept. Now this fucking loser has 1.3mil in a go fund me account. 

10 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Dude was not just strolling to his car.  Right or wrong, you cannot have a physical altercation with police, then resist their commands, then dig thru your car without getting shot. White, black, purple.

I would say BLM has an amazing ability to market.  If you don't fall lock step with them, you are a racist.  If you don't let your building or property be destroyed for the cause, you are a racist.  Hell, if your business is just a little too Cuban in an area they don't deem needs to be, you are a racist.  Can't eat dinner on a patio in peace, you fucking racist.  Imagine another group that does that, and has the NBA painting your logo on the court.  They have one hell of a marketing plan.

All of this right here 

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39 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

The current state of the police is that any perceived threat is met with heavy force.  It's a shoot first and sort it out later type of law enforcement.

 

just want to highlight the "perceived threat" portion of this. I agree with what you say, and I think a big part of the problem that is more specific to black people is that on average it takes much less for them to be perceived as a threat, even from people like you or I who you probably wouldn't describe as racist.

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2 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

It’s starts at home and how you’re raised but no one wants to have that convo.  No one wants to address these dumbasses with rap sheets a mile along of violent actions fighting the cops disobeying commands and running to the car because personal accountability just doesn’t fall in line with societal views.   At this day in age with all the media coverage if your dumbass decides you wanna test some dumbass cop fight them and keep it real. Real is gonna get kept. Now this fucking loser has 1.3mil in a go fund me account. 

 

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I agree but in many instances they don't help themselves by their actions.  I don't ever want to see anyone beaten but I would certainly prefer a beatdown to being a perceived thread and getting shot.  "They" being anyone that puts themselves in the situation.

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35 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

don't worry you only have 2 more months of this, then it will disappear.

That’s the way I’m betting on this all happening. Biden gets elected. Some sort

of slight “mission accomplished” banner is flown. Nothing substantive happens. This story, angst and protesting disappear into the background. The world continues to spin round and round and very little changes.  
note- this is a prediction so I might be wrong. It’s my guess as fo how it all goes down. Save the pointing and laughing for and mocking for after the election. We can revisit then and I will take my lumps if I’m wrong. 

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1 minute ago, Sgt Hulk said:

It’s starts at home and how you’re raised but no one wants to have that convo.  No one wants to address these dumbasses with rap sheets a mile along of violent actions fighting the cops disobeying commands and running to the car because personal accountability just doesn’t fall in line with societal views.   At this day in age with all the media coverage if your dumbass decides you wanna test some dumbass cop fight them and keep it real. Real is gonna get kept. Now this fucking loser has 1.3mil in a go fund me account. 

All of this right here 

Tell me how long of a rap sheet Elijah McClain, Tamir Rice, Breonna Taylor, Daniel Shaver, Cameron Redus, Amadu Diallo, etc had. 

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3 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Maybe different people are also treated differently.

So then maybe we could drop the broad strokes brush or nah?   As myself being a person of darker skin tone I’ve found that saying yes sir instead of fuck you pig has helped me not get into issues.  But my father also beat my ass with everyone he could reach if I disrespected an adult 

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17 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

That's a real problem.  If we as a society want to send the message to an aggrieved population of "protest peacefully, and we will listen," then our previous message of "fuck your peaceful protests, get that sonofabitch off the field!" I gotta tell ya, man.....that's a pretty mixed message.  You know what the REAL message is, when you send that mixed message?  It's "shut up, we don't care what you think, we're not gonna change a fucking thing, and you best just shut up and take it."  Understandably, that message frustrates and pisses off the people it's directed at.  

Well, some people are morons and hard to reach. That doesn't mean you change your strategy. The path to change is slow and arduous. 99.9% of people give zero fucks about any cause that doesn't affect them. But when your cause is just, things change. 

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11 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

just want to highlight the "perceived threat" portion of this. I agree with what you say, and I think a big part of the part of the problem that is more specific to black people is that on average it takes much less for them to be perceived as a threat, even from people like you or I who you probably wouldn't describe as racist.

This is a really smart point. 
I’m sure there’s plenty of macho macho men on here who ain’t scared of shit and would walk through Harlem dressed like Bruce Willis I’m die hard without breaking a sweat, but 80? 90? Percent of the population is more likely to get scared seeing a black guy than a white guy. 
part of it is natural!  It’s literally July into our dna to be afraid of other. It helped us survive and evolve for thousands of years. But it’s a problem in this context. 

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1 minute ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Well, some people are morons and hard to reach selfish, evil, and cruel, and LIKE things the way they are.  Those people also heavily coincide with the people in power. That doesn't mean you change your strategy. The path to change is slow and arduous. 99.9% of people give zero fucks about any cause that doesn't affect them. But when your cause is just, things change. 

FIF accuracy, and to point out the heart of the problem.  We LIKE police forces that brutalize people, we LIKE police forces that racially profile and abuse minorities.  How do I know this? Because we fight, HARD, to keep it that way.

Apathy would be a gift, frankly.  It's the active resistance and powerful pushback against even a scintilla of reform that's so problematic.

And when your cause is just, things change?  A people brought over here in chains starting 400 years ago......20 generations.....and still being fucked.  I gotta tell ya, 400 years seems like a LONG ASS TIME to "be patient and wait for change."  And I am not shocked that they aren't assuaged with statements like "hey, at least you aren't enslaved anymore....at least they aren't having extrajudicial hangings of you in the town square anymore!  Buck up, that's good news!"

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2 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

This is a really smart point. 
I’m sure there’s plenty of macho macho men on here who ain’t scared of shit and would walk through Harlem dressed like Bruce Willis I’m die hard without breaking a sweat, but 80? 90? Percent of the population is more likely to get scared seeing a black guy than a white guy. 
part of it is natural!  It’s literally July into our dna to be afraid of other. It helped us survive and evolve for thousands of years. But it’s a problem in this context. 

I don’t think you know what Harlem is like nowadays. It’s hardly what I would consider dangerous. Also did you have a stroke while typing this?

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9 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

So then maybe we could drop the broad strokes brush or nah?   As myself being a person of darker skin tone I’ve found that saying yes sir instead of fuck you pig has helped me not get into issues.  But my father also beat my ass with everyone he could reach if I disrespected an adult 

So you agree @fattyflattie was wrong when he wrote above "Right or wrong, you cannot have a physical altercation with police, then resist their commands, then dig thru your car without getting shot. White, black, purple."?  Right?

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6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

That's a real problem.  If we as a society want to send the message to an aggrieved population of "protest peacefully, and we will listen," then our previous message of "fuck your peaceful protests, get that sonofabitch off the field!" I gotta tell ya, man.....that's a pretty mixed message.  You know what the REAL message is, when you send that mixed message?  It's "shut up, we don't care what you think, we're not gonna change a fucking thing, and you best just shut up and take it."  Understandably, that message frustrates and pisses off the people it's directed at.  

I agree with this 100%;   I wrote a bunch afterward about why I think Kaps/other athletes/singers/socialites missions fail, but decided I dont want to kick that anthill.

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Just now, Ghost of LL said:

So you agree @fattyflattie was wrong when he wrote above "Right or wrong, you cannot have a physical altercation with police, then resist their commands, then dig thru your car without getting shot. White, black, purple."?  Right?

It’s not the best of ideas. No. But if that’s your strategy you so you boo. See how it turns out. Society is full of crazy people and you never know who you’re dealing with. So if you wanna a t crazy. Then like i said you do. You. Just don’t have a shocked face if it doesn’t work out.  

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1 minute ago, Sgt Hulk said:

It’s not the best of ideas. No. But if that’s your strategy you so you boo. See how it turns out. Society is full of crazy people and you never know who you’re dealing with. So if you wanna a t crazy. Then like i said you do. You. Just don’t have a shocked face if it doesn’t work out.  

Acknowledging that it may "not [be] the best of ideas," you agree that not everybody who has a physical altercation with the police and resists their commands gets shot, right?  I mean, the video above bears that out, right?

I mean, the fact that I'm alive after shoving a Pasadena cop during the 2009 National Championship Game bears that out, right?

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1 hour ago, dcar00 said:

don't worry you only have 2 more months of this, then it will disappear.

You think people are rioting, protesting, and demanding police reform because of the dude that sits in the White House? And not because, you know, videos keep surfacing of police officers killing folks? Well okie dokie then.

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6 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Acknowledging that it may "not [be] the best of ideas," you agree that not everybody who has a physical altercation with the police and resists their commands gets shot, right?  I mean, the video above bears that out, right?

I mean, the fact that I'm alive after shoving a Pasadena cop during the 2009 National Championship Game bears that out, right?

Cool story on your N=1 story.  You big tough guy you. I’ll bet shoving a cop isn’t the same as running from one after fighting them and reaching into your vehicle to get a piece of gum so your breath doesn’t stink.    It I too compare apples to dump trucks.  I keep my wallet under my seat because I lose it.  I got pulled over. Reached under seat to get wallet and had a gun in my face. So there’s that. But hey good on you guy 

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12 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I agree with this 100%;   I wrote a bunch afterward about why I think Kaps/other athletes/singers/socialites missions fail, but decided I dont want to kick that anthill.

You should write it and DM it to me.  I'm really curious to read this, and I'm being genuine when I say that. 

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The rioting is what we deserve imo. Our society has repeatedly made it clear over the years that if you want attention, the best way to get it is by acting violent. You want your name immortalized forever? Grab a gun and kill a bunch of people. You want to be on the news, or for people to be aware of your cause? Light some shit on fire. You just wanna peacefully march in the streets? Lol go get a job you Marxist, no one cares. Also I fully support people running you over or shooting you.

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3 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

Cool story on your N=1 story.  You big tough guy you. I’ll bet shoving a cop isn’t the same as running from one after fighting them and reaching into your vehicle to get a piece of gum so your breath doesn’t stink.    It I too compare apples to dump trucks.  I keep my wallet under my seat because I lose it.  I got pulled over. Reached under seat to get wallet and had a gun in my face. So there’s that. But hey good on you guy 

Compare the two videos, then.  And so based on that, we agree that  not everybody who has a physical altercation with the police and resists their commands gets shot, right? 

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21 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

1.3mil in a go fund me account. 

And likely several million more from the taxpayers.  Because he thought he was above the law, and some cops didn't handle the situation well. Great time to be a taxpayer, fucked on both ends. 

5 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

So you agree @fattyflattie was wrong when he wrote above "Right or wrong, you cannot have a physical altercation with police, then resist their commands, then dig thru your car without getting shot. White, black, purple."?  Right?

That statement is not incorrect.  There are videos like the benny hill themed episode above with the white guy for every color person out there. 

I'm lily white.  If I pulled the same shit this dude did, I would expect to be shot.  I wouldn't pull that because I'm not fucking stupid and understand that for some fucking reason cops pretty much have carte blanche to shoot you when you do that.  I think lots of cops are power hungry dickheads that like to assert dominance.  I also believe most dgaf what color you are.  I think they are pretty happy to crack a white skull, or black skull, or bonus points if you can get both at once.  There is a loooooooooong list of real black victims of police violence.  I'm finding it hard to shed tears for this fucking guy.  

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15 minutes ago, Helobious said:

I don’t think you know what Harlem is like nowadays. It’s hardly what I would consider dangerous. Also did you have a stroke while typing this?

South central. East St Louis. Whatever “scary” neighborhood you want to talk about. 
yeah- Sorry about that typing. It was really terrible. Fat fingers/auto correct and I’m an idiot. My apologies. 

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1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

That statement is not incorrect.  There are videos like the benny hill themed episode above with the white guy for every color person out there. 

Really?  Go find one featuring a black guy.

And even that doesn't answer the question.  Even if you could find one featuring one white guy, would you be able to find a proportionate number?  Almost certainly not.  Because black people are shot in disproportionate numbers.

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6 minutes ago, Pancho said:

You should write it and DM it to me.  I'm really curious to read this, and I'm being genuine when I say that. 

Damnit I should have copied before deleting.  I'll shoot you something.  It's nothing inflammatory and doubt it'll be ground breaking to you.  

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31 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Tell me how long of a rap sheet Elijah McClain, Tamir Rice, Breonna Taylor, Daniel Shaver, Cameron Redus, Amadu Diallo, etc had. 

Oh all the gross shit cops have done recently, I think the Aurora PD's violent response to the fucking violin protest against their murder of Elijah McClain might be the worst. The protesters were completely peaceful, just playing violins, and hundreds of cops got kitted up in riot gear and tear gassed them.  It's hard to imagine a bigger "fuck you, we'll beat you and kill you just because we can and you'll take it" than that. I'm sure some cops will figure it out, though.

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24 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

This is a really smart point. 
I’m sure there’s plenty of macho macho men on here who ain’t scared of shit and would walk through Harlem dressed like Bruce Willis I’m die hard without breaking a sweat, but 80? 90? Percent of the population is more likely to get scared seeing a black guy than a white guy. 
part of it is natural!  It’s literally July into our dna to be afraid of other. It helped us survive and evolve for thousands of years. But it’s a problem in this context. 

TIL that white people are genetically predisposed to be scared of black people, but not asian, hispanic etc.... 

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