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'I don't wish either of them well': The demise of the Southwest Conference, 25 years later


Don Johnson

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1 minute ago, tonedeaf said:

In teaffs defense, he didn't use little black bags.  The envelopes with the cash were put directly in the glove box during the games.  

It's just funny that he's speaking like he's being cross examined or some shit. Especially after all of the much, much worse shit Baylor has been through. Just speak candidly. The NCAA already fucked everyone over anyway. 

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The thing that struck me the most was how much of a whiny fuckstick Grant Teaff came off as.  The blinding bullshit hypocrisy is so built into the culture of that trash institution.  Fuck Ann Richards for making my alma mater ever be associated with that cesspool.

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1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Great read and the all around hate still comes through.  Hate is what makes a rivalry and rivalries are what make college football great. 

Yep, it's one of the things that separates the 2 pro and college games.    Listening to Studdard on the radio the other day talking about this and it was specifically why he loved playing college football, playing OU and A&M and all the hate, vitriol, spite and other wonderful things that came with those games, and why they should always be played.  

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1 hour ago, Longboard Horn said:

Defund the Big 12, reunite the SWC(except for aggy)

Fuck that noise for at least two reasons:

1.  I came to Texas in 1994, so was only here for two years of the SWC, and therefore did not have the affinity for the SWC that most folks here do.  I thought then that the conference was garbage, and was glad to see it go.  Being back in a conference with SMU, Houston, Rice would be terrible.

2.  Fuck reuniting any conference with Baylor.  Fuck Bob Bullock and Ann Richards for using Baylor to cock-block realignment back then, and fuck our current affiliation with that university.  Did I mention fuck Baylor? 

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49 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

The thing that struck me the most was how much of a whiny fuckstick Grant Teaff came off as.  The blinding bullshit hypocrisy is so built into the culture of that trash institution.  Fuck Ann Richards for making my alma mater ever be associated with that cesspool.

Bob Bullock was the one that really pushed it.

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Again, Ann had fuck all to do with Baylor joining the BXII. It was Bullock, David Sibley, Pete Laney (speaker of the house) and Rob Junnell (chair of house appropriations) who demanded Baylor and Tech come along. Richards didn't give two shits about Baylor football.

And fuck Grant Teaff for his bullshit act. Just because your cheating resulted in minimal success so nobody ever bothered to sniff around in Waco doesn't mean you weren't playing the game.

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3 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

If you were bringing 4, Tech makes the most sense as the third so I don't really have an issue with it.  Would have been cool for it to happen earlier and Arky have been the 4th.

That would have made for an entire conference of public institutions.

Pigs instead of Baylor in the B12 would have been fun, but the B12 still would have had all the same issues.  It was a shotgun marriage from the beginning.

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IIRC, don't conferences need at least one private institution to prevent their business from being subject to FOIA requests?  If so, Rice should have been the token private institution choice over Baylor, because fuck Baylor now and forever and unto ages of ages amen.

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11 minutes ago, Dutch said:

IIRC, don't conferences need at least one private institution to prevent their business from being subject to FOIA requests?  

That is a myth, right up alongside the idea that Bob Bullock told the University of Texas "YOU BETTER TAKE BAYLOR OR YOU WON'T GET ANY MONEY!" and our reaction was anything other than "we'll see you in court". 

That article is 90% horseshit. 

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2 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

The thing that struck me the most was how much of a whiny fuckstick Grant Teaff came off as.  The blinding bullshit hypocrisy is so built into the culture of that trash institution.  Fuck Ann Richards for making my alma mater ever be associated with that cesspool.

 

2 hours ago, Scholz said:

Fuck Baylor

That’s why TCU fans absolutely loathe Baylor. Texas lobbied for TCU to be the fourth team from the SWC to go to the big 12. But Grant threw a fit about it and Ann Richards wouldn’t sign any merger unless Baylor was included. 

To quote my coworker who is a TCU grad:  fuck Ann Richards, I hope she’s rotting in hell.

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2 hours ago, SimonBolivar said:

Bob Bullock was the one that really pushed it.

And to this day I always wondered if his threat alone would have cut off funds from both aggy and UT.    

One would think enough aggy and UT Grads or at least have some sort of relationship with the individual universities and the  systems would muscle through all that smoke and threats. Plus that was about the time (1994) when the GOP start gaining power in Austin  (Bush beat Richards) and the State Legislatures either flipped to the GOP control or soon did right after the 94 election.  Bullock and Speaker Laney had to spread more chairmanships of committees and stuff like that to Republicans as an acknowledgment of the change before they even lost their simple majorities. 

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1 hour ago, Longboard Horn said:

 

That’s why TCU fans absolutely loathe Baylor. Texas lobbied for TCU to be the fourth team from the SWC to go to the big 12. But Grant threw a fit about it and Ann Richards wouldn’t sign any merger unless Baylor was included. 

To quote my coworker who is a TCU grad:  fuck Ann Richards, I hope she’s rotting in hell.

I'm a biased Baylor fan, but trying to take off my green and gold pants (heh) I would assume that I would want my school to pick Rice or SMU over both TCU and BU in the early 90s.

 

Neither BU nor TCU was anything near what they would be in the mid-2010s on the field and Rice was a bit better than their historical average. SMU was still being punished, but obviously had potential. I don't see anything looking special in this half decade

1990:

Baylor 5-2-1

Rice 3-5

TCU 3-5

SMU 0-8

 

1991:

Baylor: 5-3

TCU: 4-4

Rice: 2-6

SMU: 0-8

 

1992:

Baylor: 4-3

Rice: 4-3

SMU: 2-5

TCU: 1-6

 

1993:

Rice: 3-4

Baylor: 3-4

TCU: 2-5

SMU: 1-5-1

 

1994:

Baylor: 4-3

TCU: 4-3

Rice: 4-3

SMU: 0-6-1

 

1995:

Baylor: 5-2

TCU: 3-4

Rice: 1-6

SMU: 0-7

 

Location goes to Rice and SMU over TCU and especially BU

Academics goes to Rice/SMU over TCU/BU

Lack of religious fanaticism goes to Rice/SMU over BU

School size goes to BU and slightly TCU, but neither school is big enough to make that big of a difference.

 

 

If I'm being completely honest then I'm picking Rice every single time. You don't need your Vandy/Northwestern to be a juggernaut on the field or the TV and their academic profile is the obvious choice.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Nueces River Rat said:

The Pony Excess 30/30 documentary

was, stop me if you've heard this one, 90% horseshit

Both the article and that documentary let the people involved describe themselves and then presented it uncritically, no different than asking Texags to tell the story of Texas A&M. That's why poor Grant Teaff was surrounded by cheaters even though he wanted everything played fair! And everyone started turning everyone else in only when little ol' SMU started winning games. And everyone was cheating, everyone except Rice. 

Etc etc etc. I get what you're saying about nostalgic entertainment value but frankly hearing the prevaricating cheaters make the unchallenged claims they do just turns me off. 

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37 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

was, stop me if you've heard this one, 90% horseshit

Both the article and that documentary let the people involved describe themselves and then presented it uncritically, no different than asking Texags to tell the story of Texas A&M. That's why poor Grant Teaff was surrounded by cheaters even though he wanted everything played fair! And everyone started turning everyone else in only when little ol' SMU started winning games. And everyone was cheating, everyone except Rice. 

Etc etc etc. I get what you're saying about nostalgic entertainment value but frankly hearing the prevaricating cheaters make the unchallenged claims they do just turns me off. 

I really enjoyed the Pony Excess doc, and never at any point felt sympathy for SMU.  The doc made it quite clear that they were cheating their asses all the way off.

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24 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

by letting them gleefully chortle their way through the anecdotes without a hint of shame or remorse

it was disgusting

I mean, they were cheating in college football.  It's not like they were chuckling about assaulting people.

Having had no dog in the fight, it was hard for me to be "mad" at SMU about anything.  The whole scenario is inherently absurd and comical.

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6 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

The thing that struck me the most was how much of a whiny fuckstick Grant Teaff came off as.  The blinding bullshit hypocrisy is so built into the culture of that trash institution.  Fuck Ann Richards for making my alma mater ever be associated with that cesspool.

It was Bob Bullock.  Not Ann Richards. 

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6 hours ago, Hurtlocker said:

Crowe: Frank asked me, "Jack, what would you think about us going to the SEC?" I told him, "Let me tell you something, Frank. We have a hard time beating Texas here. There's five Texases over there. Five."

 

Prophetic 

That is awesome

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3 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

by letting them gleefully chortle their way through the anecdotes without a hint of shame or remorse

it was disgusting

I’ll agree the individuals in some cases should have been indicted for some of the stuff they pulled.  But the program itself suffered mediocrity and suckage until  recently with the exception of one season under June Jones. 

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4 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

was, stop me if you've heard this one, 90% horseshit

Both the article and that documentary let the people involved describe themselves and then presented it uncritically, no different than asking Texags to tell the story of Texas A&M. That's why poor Grant Teaff was surrounded by cheaters even though he wanted everything played fair! And everyone started turning everyone else in only when little ol' SMU started winning games. And everyone was cheating, everyone except Rice. 

Etc etc etc. I get what you're saying about nostalgic entertainment value but frankly hearing the prevaricating cheaters make the unchallenged claims they do just turns me off. 

I had no real problem with this because everyone knows the end result which was the death penalty.  My only disgust about that era now and when I watched the documentary was how OUsux escaped the death penalty themselves for the scandals which mirrored SMU in someways, but were made worse by criminal activity happening in their athletic dorm and elsewhere around Norman involving football players .

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7 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

That is a myth, right up alongside the idea that Bob Bullock told the University of Texas "YOU BETTER TAKE BAYLOR OR YOU WON'T GET ANY MONEY!" and our reaction was anything other than "we'll see you in court". 

That article is 90% horseshit. 

Its mostly right--except for that part.  Texas didn't need to be told that Tech and Baylor had to go along.  We weren't stupid Aggies.  Bullock had to take the Aggies into the back room and pull out the whip and throw a few dollars around to get them to see political reality.

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6 hours ago, Nueces River Rat said:

But the football, personalities,  and the conference  politics were fun during the era up until about 1990.

The Pony Excess 30/30 documentary pretty much sums the conference politics and recruiting shenanigans  pretty good.

The part from Sonny Dykes was fun, how all the coaches were come over to have drinks with his Dad (Tech coach) the night before the games.

And how you simply couldn't imagine Saban going over and having a drink with Gus Malzahn the night before the Iron Bowl.

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4 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I really enjoyed the Pony Excess doc, and never at any point felt sympathy for SMU.  The doc made it quite clear that they were cheating their asses all the way off.

I loved when Dickerson talked about how others were paying more than SMU was and not getting as good a results.

He might have been talking about TCU, but I figured he was talking about aggy who gave him a car.

 

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The SWC was awesome.  You could get a few buddies together, drive to almost any game in the league, see the game and find a place to eat, then get back in the car and drive back.  Gas was a buck a gallon and tickets were cheap.  We did not play in Iowa or Kansas or friggin' West Virginia.  A&M, Arkansas and OU on the schedule every year in every sport.  Somehow we screwed that up.

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10 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

I always wondered what would have happened with Arky had they not gone to the SEC.  The SWC would have broken up regardless and the Big 12 would have taken Arky but Baylor and Tech still would have been there.  Would they have tried with 13 teams or gone after a 14th?

There was a time when XII was not yet formed & Arkansas poked around the idea of joining Big8...
I seem to recall hearing of BYU & New Mexico as an option to join XVI to form a Big 14 years ago...

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12 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

I saw bring back Nebraska and Arkansas.  All that hate would keep us all warm at night.

I’m probably in the minority on this, but I say bring back aggy too.  There’s nothing better than hearing all of DKR chanting pooooor aggys when you have a big lead in the 4th quarter.

Amazing we’ve gone 25 years without kicking Baylor the fuck out.

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7 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

by letting them gleefully chortle their way through the anecdotes without a hint of shame or remorse

it was disgusting

Can’t imagine being this easily offended. Was the doc not supposed to shed light on the ways they were cheating? It was just presenting a story, it’s the viewers job to “judge” right/wrong. I really enjoyed watching it and the candor from the people involved. 

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