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On 10/19/2019 at 1:59 PM, Michael Knight said:

Onboard is very consistent in who he does and does not criticize. 

Jesus you're a fucking, first class, idiot.

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16 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Jesus you're a fucking, first class, idiot.

You never seem to say shit about trump,  why is that?

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That protestor getting shot was horrific. Life seems to mean nothing in that part of the world. I think that within the next decade that this is a country we will be at war with. 

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That protestor getting shot was horrific. Life seems to mean nothing in that part of the world. I think that within the next decade that this is a country we will be at war with. 


Urgh... Same as when our citizens get shot by police here right? Guess we don’t value life as well.


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I’m curious what the liberal response to China is these days. Seems to me we have tried the “play nice” appeasement route, also the globalist route via WTO. It hasn’t worked because it assumes rational honest actors on the other side of the table. That’s not China. They have a whole different frame of morality, ideas around intellectual property (there is none unless we made it), and theft.

I don’t like the sanctions and trade war but I ask what the alternative is at this point? Asking nicely and harsh language hasn’t worked. TPP was shaping up to be a disaster.

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3 minutes ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

I’m curious what the liberal response to China is these days. Seems to me we have tried the “play nice” appeasement route, also the globalist route via WTO. It hasn’t worked because it assumes rational honest actors on the other side of the table. That’s not China. They have a whole different frame of morality, ideas around intellectual property (there is none unless we made it), and theft.

I don’t like the sanctions and trade war but I ask what the alternative is at this point? Asking nicely and harsh language hasn’t worked. TPP was shaping up to be a disaster.

Stop buying goods manufactured in China.

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10 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

That protestor getting shot was horrific. Life seems to mean nothing in that part of the world. I think that within the next decade that this is a country we will be at war with. 

We're not going to have a hot war with China. They have 1.3 billion people and nuclear weapons.

So yeah, that's not happening.

Edited by David Dennison

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18 minutes ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

I’m curious what the liberal response to China is these days. Seems to me we have tried the “play nice” appeasement route, also the globalist route via WTO. It hasn’t worked because it assumes rational honest actors on the other side of the table. That’s not China. They have a whole different frame of morality, ideas around intellectual property (there is none unless we made it), and theft.

I don’t like the sanctions and trade war but I ask what the alternative is at this point? Asking nicely and harsh language hasn’t worked. TPP was shaping up to be a disaster.

1) Disagree on your opinion of TPP. It had some flaws that could be further negotiated but the point was to counter Chinese dominance by isolating it with a ring of economies allied with broad American interests.

2) Don't fucking start a trade war with the EU. Instead, ally with them to take fight for IP protections against Chinese theft in international courts.

3) Leverage Indian hostility toward China.

In other words, don't retreat from the world stage by turning our backs on our historic allies and leverage the capital we'd built since WWII to rein in China. Instead, Trump has taken the opposite approach to start a one-on-one trade war with them.

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33 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

We're not going to have a hot war with China. They have 1.3 billion people and nuclear weapons.

So yeah, that's not happening.

I do not believe that that will always be a deterrent. Human beings excel at destroying one another over everything else. Dotard won't be the last crazy person we have running this country. 

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I ran across this info and found it fascinating and scary for the broader implications, which admittedly may be a false concern on my part. I prefer maps on roadways and use GPS as a complement to the maps instead of the other way around but I am probably, no not probably, I am a Luddite when it comes to slowly accepting new tech. So what say you all about the GPS spoofing? Also, I did not know sand is valuable. Learned more than one thing today, cool!

 

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I’m curious what the liberal response to China is these days. Seems to me we have tried the “play nice” appeasement route, also the globalist route via WTO. It hasn’t worked because it assumes rational honest actors on the other side of the table. That’s not China. They have a whole different frame of morality, ideas around intellectual property (there is none unless we made it), and theft.

I don’t like the sanctions and trade war but I ask what the alternative is at this point? Asking nicely and harsh language hasn’t worked. TPP was shaping up to be a disaster.


You do realize the current Trump “sanctions” and “trade war” have a very minimal effect on Chinese companies right? Please tell me you understand that the whole thing is mostly a dog and pony show for dumb-ass Americans who don’t really understand international trade.

As someone who imports components from China I can tell you it’s hurting American companies and citizens far worse than Chinese companies. There is a way to do this and inflict real pain but our Cheeto-in-chief doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing.

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On 11/11/2019 at 10:04 AM, bolverk said:

1) Disagree on your opinion of TPP. It had some flaws that could be further negotiated but the point was to counter Chinese dominance by isolating it with a ring of economies allied with broad American interests.

2) Don't fucking start a trade war with the EU. Instead, ally with them to take fight for IP protections against Chinese theft in international courts.

3) Leverage Indian hostility toward China.

In other words, don't retreat from the world stage by turning our backs on our historic allies and leverage the capital we'd built since WWII to rein in China. Instead, Trump has taken the opposite approach to start a one-on-one trade war with them.

Agree, electing Trump as President and then allowing him to implement his mad negotiator skills rather than continue down the established multilateral trade system is the equivalent of firing Herman and company and replacing them with a Madden NFL champion. Sure it's something we might joke about doing but holy fuck don't actually do it.

 

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On 11/11/2019 at 9:36 AM, Horn of Gabriel said:

I’m curious what the liberal response to China is these days. Seems to me we have tried the “play nice” appeasement route, also the globalist route via WTO. It hasn’t worked because it assumes rational honest actors on the other side of the table. That’s not China. They have a whole different frame of morality, ideas around intellectual property (there is none unless we made it), and theft.

What is the goal with China? Are we trying to contain their power and influence? Are we trying to westernize their society towards more pro-democracy? Are we trying to push them closer to being an enemy or an ally?   This is the problem with China.  We don’t know what the fuck we want to do and our policy changes every few years. 

I think we need a clearly defined destination with China and then decide how to get there because China certainly has long term plans for us.

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I can't find a good print story.  HK police were fighting with students at HK University or something.  Looks serious.

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21 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

There is a way to do this and inflict real pain but our Cheeto-in-chief doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing.

 

What way is that?

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Where have I seen this done before?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/24/china-cables-leak-no-escapes-reality-china-uighur-prison-camp

Quote

The internal workings of a vast chain of Chinese internment camps used to detain at least a million people from the nation’s Muslim minorities are laid out in leaked Communist Party documents published on Sunday.

The China Cables, a cache of classified government papers, appear to provide the first official glimpse into the structure, daily life and ideological framework behind centres in north-western Xinjiang region that have provoked international condemnation.

Obtained by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ)and shared with the Guardian, the BBC and 15 other media partners, the documents have been independently assessed by experts who have concluded they are authentic. China said they had been “fabricated”.

Play Video

1:31

 'Don't listen to fake news': Chinese ambassador pressed over detention camps in Xinjiang – video

However, the documents are consistent with mounting evidence that the country runs detention camps that are secret, involuntary and used for ideological “education transformation”. 

When reports surfaced of mass internments without trial, authorities in Beijing initially denied the existence of the detention centres, whose inmates are mostly Uighurs and other ethnic minorities.

After satellite photos and a flood of testimony from former detainees and relatives became impossible to ignore, the party insisted they were for voluntary “vocational training”.

The cables provide apparent confirmation from within China’s bureaucracy that the camps were envisaged from the start as brainwashing detention centres, to be constructed on a massive scale, with inmates confined by multiple layers of security.

 

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3 hours ago, workswithseed said:

This is known, or is this to their people?

Fairly certain the Muslim community will make it widely known.

This is a good way to kick off a fight with a lot of different groups that are already angry about various other things they see wrong in the world.

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This is not going to go over well with the Chinese government.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/24/asia/hong-kong-district-council-elections-intl/index.html

Landslide victory for Hong Kong pro-democracy parties in de facto protest referendum

Quote

Pro-democracy candidates appear to have made major gains in Hong Kong's District Council elections, as early results trickled in Monday morning, with multiple high-profile pro-government figures losing their seats. 

More than 2.9 million people turned out to vote in Sunday's elections, which have been framed as a de facto referendum on the almost six months of ongoing protests in the semi-autonomous Chinese city. With more than 95% of constituencies declared, pro-democracy candidates appeared to have won a landslide victory. 

Speaking to CNN, Kenneth Chan, an expert on politics and governance at Hong Kong Baptist University, said the more than 70% turnout -- higher than any other election in the city's history -- "exceeded many predictions" and demonstrated both Hong Kongers' commitment to democracy and that they are "counting on this election to point a way out of this impasse."

Public broadcaster RTHK described the results as a "rout" and a "staggering victory for the pro-democracy camp," with the majority of the 18 district councils expected to flip to pro-democratic control in an "unmistakable message" to the city's leader Carrie Lam.

Quote

Opposition candidates took nearly 90% of the seats up for grabs, the broadcaster reported.

Quote

District councils are elected on four-year terms, and largely handle local affairs. They lack much in terms of real power, serving mainly to advise the government on issues affecting their neighborhoods and the allocation of funds for local projects.

The vote has taken on an outsized importance in recent years, however, as a way of signaling wider discontent about the slow pace of political reform. Ahead of Sunday's vote, pro-Beijing parties controlled all 18 district councils, so any victory for the broader pro-democracy camp will inevitably be cast as a win for protesters.

 

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China promised Hong Kong their own form of government for 50 years after the handoff. We're only 28 years away from the day they become one with the communists. Violence is on the horizon with a vote like this.

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District elections were held Sunday in Hong Kong and the pro-democracy parties handed the pro-Beijing party its ass on a platter. The Dems won 90% of races, tripling their seats amid record-breaking turnout. What's funny is that the CCP didn't see it coming.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/11/25/hong-kong-election-beijing-media-delusions-victory/

Quote

In newsrooms in Beijing, however, the results began a panicked scramble to find a way to spin them in favor of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). In stark contrast to most observers in Hong Kong, editors—and the officials behind them—appear to have sincerely believed that the establishment parties would win an overwhelming victory. Propaganda is a heady drug, and Beijing got high on its own supply.

 

I spoke with editors and journalists, both foreign and Chinese, at China Daily, the flagship English-language newspaper of state media; at the English-language version of the nationalist tabloid Global Times; and at the People’s Daily—the CCP’s official newspaper. (My sources universally asked for anonymity.) At each paper, copy was filed to editors the night before the Nov. 24 elections assuming a strong victory for the establishment. This included predictions of increased majorities (with numbers left to be filled in as needed) for figures such as Junius Ho, whose vicious rhetoric against protesters has left him widely hated but whose comments regularly appear in the Global Times.

The misplaced confidence in Beijing’s victory points to a worrying problem; at high levels within the CCP, officials believe their own propaganda about Hong Kong. That’s a frightening prospect for both governance in China and for the future of the city, especially as the system struggles to come up with political excuses for a cataclysmic failure.

 

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On 11/11/2019 at 8:39 AM, YChang said:

 


Urgh... Same as when our citizens get shot by police here right? Guess we don’t value life as well.

 

 

Yeah, and it's not like China hasn't been whacking dissidents in public and private by the boxcar load for, I dunno, 75 years.

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On 12/3/2019 at 7:20 PM, workswithseed said:

I'd like to know why he voted against it.

I voted no tonight on the UIGHUR Act (sanctions against China) for the same reason I voted no in the Hong Kong bill two weeks ago:

When our government meddles in the internal affairs of foreign countries, it invites those governments to meddle in our affairs.

— Thomas Massie (@RepThomasMassie) December 4, 2019

 

Reasonable people can come to different conclusions on this vote but,

Before expressing righteous indignation re: my vote against these sanctions, please consider whether you committed enough to the issue that you would personally go a week without buying something made in China

— Thomas Massie (@RepThomasMassie) December 4, 2019

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14 hours ago, Thetexashammer said:

They're as bad as the Nazis. They're Chinazis.  

 

 

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mpu


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