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A story about a pathetic man's downfall


Francisco 2.0

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Good God.

Trump submitted a letter to the editor to the Wall Street Journal disputing their article on Monday concerning the Pennsylvania 2020 Presidential Election.  They actually published it.  I don't have a sub, so I can't post it here; perhaps someone else can.  Here's the first paragraph:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/president-donald-trump-2020-election-fraud-pennsylvania-ballots-11635280347

Quote

In your editorial “The Election for Pennsylvania’s High Court” (Oct. 25), you state the fact that a court wrongly said mail-in ballots could be counted after Election Day. “This didn’t matter,” you add, “because Mr. Biden won the state by 80,555, but the country is lucky the election wasn’t closer. If the election had hung on a few thousand Pennsylvanians, the next President might have been picked by the U.S. Supreme Court.”

Well actually, the election was rigged, which you, unfortunately, still haven’t figured out. Here are just a few examples of how determinative the voter fraud in Pennsylvania was:

 

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On 10/25/2021 at 11:58 PM, DonkeyCigars said:

There are absolutely lessons to be learned from all this. I think of a piece I read recently on ancient Greeks like Socrates and such and how performative they had to be, and ultimately it's always been showmanship and large platforms (cults of personalities) that activate and amplify messages. 

I'd be curious to know the name and source of that piece or even the actual point that was being made.

How does Socrates fit into that thesis?

Have you read Plato? Socrates doesn't fit what you seem to be getting at.

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29 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I'd be curious to know the name and source of that piece or even the actual point that was being made.

How does Socrates fit into that thesis?

Have you read Plato? Socrates doesn't fit what you seem to be getting at.

The source was BBC, here is the link: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210922-would-plato-tweet-the-ancient-greek-guide-to-social-media

Here are some quotes:

When philosophy began, the written word in the Greek-speaking world was still very young – and so ideas were often disseminated as oral-performative acts in public spaces, not unlike the epic poems of the previous age. Long before philosophers were writing books and papers, their thoughts had to be transmitted in a way that could grab their audience's attention – there was an element of public display.

Early philosophers developed highly elaborate public personas

The influential pre-Socratic philosopher Xenophanes presented his ideas in the context of rhapsodic contests, where poets vied for prizes and renown – philosophical rap competitions, of a sort. Early philosophers also developed highly elaborate public personas. Empedocles, who's credited with inventing the idea of the four Classical elements, made his public appearances with extravagant flair – a purple robe, a golden belt, sandals of bronze – and referred to himself as an incarnate god. 

Empedocles made public appearances with extravagant flair, and referred to himself as a god (Credit: Alamy)

If these modes of self-presentation had included the ability to take video, you would have had some potentially very viral philosophers. They were, in their manner, akin to content creators and influencers, in that their intellectual authority consisted not only in their ideas, but their performative eloquence, and the cult of personality with which they surrounded themselves. 

Perhaps the most famous ancient Greek philosopher managed to disseminate his ideas without ever writing anything at all. Socrates, as we're told, conducted in-the-moment philosophical conversations, usually in public places, in which he challenged conventional wisdom on various topics – provoking his fellow citizens, and, fatally for himself, the government. His art was verbal, but his expressions were as transient as a tweet or a post, a virtuous troll in the comments sections of Athenian intellectual life. 

We may be returning to a state in which a thinker's claim to wisdom relies on their ability to effectively perform it

His exploits are recreated for us in the writings of his students, most famously Plato. In many ways these Socratic dialogues, which are the fountainhead of the whole philosophical tradition that follows, can be read as a fictionalised biography of a career influencer – the Collected Twitter Threads of Socrates, liberally reinvented, yet perhaps faithful in spirit. 

In the age of social media, we may be returning to a state in which a thinker's claim to wisdom relies on their ability to effectively perform it – with the additional requirement that they're able to transmute that performance into content.

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45 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I'd be curious to know the name and source of that piece or even the actual point that was being made.

How does Socrates fit into that thesis?

Have you read Plato? Socrates doesn't fit what you seem to be getting at.

Also, as I hope I've satiated your curiosity with my response, I'd be curious to get your feedback after reading that article on both the point being made, the dotted line I drew from the article to Trump/this thread, and any other takeaways you might have had. Especially since I feel you are unfairly skeptical, at times, about my sources because I thought it was obvious I only read reputable and learned literature and quarterlies. 😛

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1 hour ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Also, as I hope I've satiated your curiosity with my response, I'd be curious to get your feedback after reading that article on both the point being made, the dotted line I drew from the article to Trump/this thread, and any other takeaways you might have had. Especially since I feel you are unfairly skeptical, at times, about my sources because I thought it was obvious I only read reputable and learned literature and quarterlies. 😛

Your source is very good and interesting. Kudos.

I think the comparison of how communication worked for philosophers and sophistoi of Athens with how it works today is inapt. 

One of the intersting things about city-states and even mega-city-states such as Rome is the direct familiarity the community had with persons of fame or infamy. The impression was not mediated beyond hearsay.

In course at UT, I learned that in a play (I believe The Birds) which sends up philosophers, one of the comedic masks was designed to closely resemble Socrates. It was a show stopper. Socrates finally stood in the audience in acknowledgement. Without photos, paintings, TV, or Twitter, the masses of Athens knew his face well enough to get the joke.

In Rome, Julius Caesar appealed to the common people in a way no other Patrician cared to even try. Imagine the Forum filled with tens of thousands of Romans witnessing and listening in person.

Yes, rhetorical skills, appearance, and other showmanship was surely employed. Trump may have made a solid demagogue back in the day, but he would have been forced to do it as he does at his rallies. And his rallies alone.

I was drawn to Classics by the utter shock I felt reading Marcus Livius' The War With Hannibal at how familiar antiquity was to a modern reader. Still, there is nothing there like our shiny, manipulating media ready to up-play or downplay any random detail. In this way, these worlds are profoundly different.

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3 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

Good God.

Trump submitted a letter to the editor to the Wall Street Journal disputing their article on Monday concerning the Pennsylvania 2020 Presidential Election.  They actually published it.  I don't have a sub, so I can't post it here; perhaps someone else can.  Here's the first paragraph:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/president-donald-trump-2020-election-fraud-pennsylvania-ballots-11635280347

 

He is one pathetic loser

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7 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

He is one pathetic loser

I honestly didn't have him blaming Barr for not helping steal Pennsylvania on my bingo card.

Publicly bashing your AG is probably not a good way to keep his loyalty, should he be called upon to testify about anything involving you.

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3 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

I honestly didn't have him blaming Barr for not helping steal Pennsylvania on my bingo card.

Publicly bashing your AG is probably not a good way to keep his loyalty, should he be called upon to testify about anything involving you.

I've lost track of how many dimensions deep this man plays chess. our feeble brains can't even begin to comprehend

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4 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

I honestly didn't have him blaming Barr for not helping steal Pennsylvania on my bingo card.

Publicly bashing your AG is probably not a good way to keep his loyalty, should he be called upon to testify about anything involving you.

you're assuming bill barr has any integrity

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20 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

you're assuming bill barr has any integrity

Trump's rant in the WSJ today was about Barr ordering U.S. Attorney Bill McSwain to stand down and not investigate PA election irregularities.

So there is something there.  Whether you call it integrity, or Barr simply reading the tea leaves and not wanting to fuck around and find out, I don't know.

I think if Bill Barr has to choose between saving his own skin and taking the fall for Trump, 10 out of 10 times he'll choose to save his own skin. 

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1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

Trump's rant in the WSJ today was about Barr ordering U.S. Attorney Bill McSwain to stand down and not investigate PA election irregularities.

So there is something there.  Whether you call it integrity, or Barr simply reading the tea leaves and not wanting to fuck around and find out, I don't know.

I think if Bill Barr has to choose between saving his own skin and taking the fall for Trump, 10 out of 10 times he'll choose to save his own skin. 

the failure here is the belief that Bill Barr would be accountable for anything and would have to "save his own skin". Nothing will happen.

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4 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Trump's rant in the WSJ today was about Barr ordering U.S. Attorney Bill McSwain to stand down and not investigate PA election irregularities.

So there is something there.  Whether you call it integrity, or Barr simply reading the tea leaves and not wanting to fuck around and find out, I don't know.

I think if Bill Barr has to choose between saving his own skin and taking the fall for Trump, 10 out of 10 times he'll choose to save his own skin. 

And he should still hang for lying to the American people and covering up Russian interference in the 2020 election. 

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5 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Trump's rant in the WSJ today was about Barr ordering U.S. Attorney Bill McSwain to stand down and not investigate PA election irregularities.

So there is something there.  Whether you call it integrity, or Barr simply reading the tea leaves and not wanting to fuck around and find out, I don't know.

I think if Bill Barr has to choose between saving his own skin and taking the fall for Trump, 10 out of 10 times he'll choose to save his own skin. 

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9 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

And he should still hang for lying to the American people and covering up Russian interference in the 2020 election. 

The danger is that next time, Trump and his ilk will make sure that the stink and treachery extends further and further down in the DOJ.  

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7 minutes ago, 'stache said:

"and basically a lowlife.:"

This is a grown man who held the most powerful office in the country, maybe the world. I just cannot wrap my head around that.

Trump is the epitome of that saying "...like wrestling with pigs in the mud, after a while you realize the pigs actually enjoy it."

Trump loves to be petty. You aren't going to out-petty him.

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7 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Trump is the epitome of that saying "...like wrestling with pigs in the mud, after a while you realize the pigs actually enjoy it."

Trump loves to be petty. You aren't going to out-petty him.

No, you are not.  He practices it at a level that defies human explanation.

Also, a majority of the voters in a large number of states LOVES HIM FOR IT.  Again, behavior that is peak "shitty human being" is an ASSET in the minds of our fellow countrymen.  We don't recover from that.

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15 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

No, you are not.  He practices it at a level that defies human explanation.

Also, a majority of the voters in a large number of states LOVES HIM FOR IT.  Again, behavior that is peak "shitty human being" is an ASSET in the minds of our fellow countrymen.  We don't recover from that.

Yea, I generally agree. He is a bully. He is also petty to the level you stated very well. And unfortunately, it's often funny (e.g. calling Meghan a low life, his Rosie O'Donnell insults back in the day, etc.) or so absurd that it's humorous to laugh at him (e.g. his ties and suits and hair, etc.)

When we laugh with him, he is bringing out the worst in us. My first instinct is to chuckle when he calls Meghan McCain a low life, that is not good. Laughing at Rosie O'Donnell when he called her a loser pig is also not a good thing. On the internet this is usually expressed and prefaced with "I'm going to hell for this, but..." as you laugh at something inappropriate.

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47 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Yea, I generally agree. He is a bully. He is also petty to the level you stated very well. And unfortunately, it's often funny (e.g. calling Meghan a low life, his Rosie O'Donnell insults back in the day, etc.) or so absurd that it's humorous to laugh at him (e.g. his ties and suits and hair, etc.)

When we laugh with him, he is bringing out the worst in us. My first instinct is to chuckle when he calls Meghan McCain a low life, that is not good. Laughing at Rosie O'Donnell when he called her a loser pig is also not a good thing. On the internet this is usually expressed and prefaced with "I'm going to hell for this, but..." as you laugh at something inappropriate.

 

 

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1 hour ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Yea, I generally agree. He is a bully. He is also petty to the level you stated very well. And unfortunately, it's often funny (e.g. calling Meghan a low life, his Rosie O'Donnell insults back in the day, etc.) or so absurd that it's humorous to laugh at him (e.g. his ties and suits and hair, etc.)

When we laugh with him, he is bringing out the worst in us. My first instinct is to chuckle when he calls Meghan McCain a low life, that is not good. Laughing at Rosie O'Donnell when he called her a loser pig is also not a good thing. On the internet this is usually expressed and prefaced with "I'm going to hell for this, but..." as you laugh at something inappropriate.

come on, man... you're being purposely obtuse here, you know damn well it goes WAY beyond self-consciously laughing at an off-color joke he makes 🙄 ~30-40% of the population absolutely WORSHIPS his lowrent whitetrash persona and craves more of it. you know this. there is endless footage of this phenomenon. 

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34 minutes ago, 'stache said:

It was funny for a minute when he was a joke candidate looking for attention. It became real when an entire fucking political party decided it was great and put him in fucking office. It's not even remotely funny for a man who held that position to continue doing this shit. It wasn't funny when he encouraged a fucking insurrection where people were literally ready to kill politicians in his name. It's not funny in any respect whatsoever, and fuck you for even suggesting that there is any humor involved. 

I agree Jan 6th is not funny, but what does that have to do with calling Meghan McCain a low life (something many of us on this thread have done) and calling Rosie O'Donnell a loser (again, something I'd guess literally everyone on these 171 pages has done at least once in their lifetime)?

My point which you missed was ardent agreement with @Brisketexan. He's unnaturally petty and he is a massive bully. And when we laugh WITH Trump (we, being society not you specifically, and I was admitting to times I've laughed with him and was open and vulnerable about it) it is BAD. It's engaging a bad part of our nature. I don't laugh with him anymore. I didn't laugh at calling Meghan McCain a low-life. I actively worked to ignore the humor in that, for my own sanity.

Ultimately Trump brings the worst out of people.

Edited by DonkeyCigars
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I agree Jan 6th is not funny, but what does that have to do with calling Meghan McCain a low life (something many of us on this thread have done) and calling Rosie O'Donnell a loser (again, something I'd guess literally everyone on these 171 pages has done at least once in their lifetime)?
My point which you missed was ardent agreement with [mention=593]Brisketexan[/mention]. He's unnaturally petty and he is a massive bully. And when we laugh WITH Trump (we, being society not you specifically, and I was admitting to times I've laughed with him and was open and vulnerable about it) it is BAD. It's engaging a bad part of our nature. I don't laugh with him anymore. I didn't laugh at calling Meghan McCain a low-life. I actively worked to ignore the humor in that, for my own sanity.
Ultimately Trump brings the worst out of people.

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1 hour ago, 'stache said:

It was funny for a minute when he was a joke candidate looking for attention. It became real when an entire fucking political party decided it was great and put him in fucking office. It's not even remotely funny for a man who held that position to continue doing this shit.

Just putting aside the insurrection shit for a moment, it's really stunning in general.

I mean, this is the shit you expect from some techie 20-something who all of the sudden came into a bunch of money, and doesn't understand that he is somehow in a position where he should act like a man instead of a 12 year-old.  Or some high school dropout who won the lottery and is using his newfound fame to trash everybody who ever said an unkind thing about.

You don't expect this from some guy in his 60s and into his 70s who has been wealthy all of his life.

Then again, this is a guy who has constantly fucked up businesses that should make money hand-over-fist and  marries models and bangs porn stars, so...I suppose it's completely on-brand for him to be this intensely insecure.

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38 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

And I think this is why the "Let's Go Brandon" shit rankles so much.   We've slid so far backward.   The mouth-breathing, knuckle-draggers have such a large platform that decency and adult-like behavior no longer means civility and common sense.   

But it has also exposed that American society is a failing one. 

Correct.  Looking at the USA right now is like looking at a CT scan for tumors.....and seeing fucking tumors EVERYWHERE.  You were hoping that you might see something treatable...instead, your stomach sinks as you realize you're looking at a death sentence.  And those tumors are only growing and spreading, by the way. 

It only gets worse.

There is no bottom.

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Correct.  Looking at the USA right now is like looking at a CT scan for tumors.....and seeing fucking tumors EVERYWHERE.  You were hoping that you might see something treatable...instead, your stomach sinks as you realize you're looking at a death sentence.  And those tumors are only growing and spreading, by the way. 
It only gets worse.
There is no bottom.

Well at least it’s nearly 5 o’clock on Friday.
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  • Bozo_Casanova changed the title to Poll: President Trump's Major Announcement


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