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The US Capitol has been Breached [Action and Developing stories]


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3 hours ago, Loather said:

  This will be my last comment on this, it went just as expected. I will tell you this, I am concerned about the country and my children for the first time in my life. The media has everyone stirred up to the point that they are not thinking rationally. This is not funny or entertaining anymore. This is getting serious. We are seeing things we never thought we would see in this country. You guys are pretty lightly discussing censoring people, arresting people, once these things get going they might take on a life of their own

  I think Trump is a buffoon. People that know me have heard me say that many times, and as I pointed out above, I think he crossed over into criminality last week. You didn't hear that part. All you heard is I dared to voice a slightly differing opinion than yours and I am an "Ignorant Fucking Rube" So, ill shut up. No problem.

And you made my earlier point. We used to debate things here. Then “conservatives” decided instead that they only wanted to hear their own thoughts repeated back to them, and when that didn’t happen they voluntarily leave and say it’s no problem they’ll just shut up. No. This is not how this works. I’m not smugly sitting here thinking “we’ve run off another one”, I’m sitting here wondering if I’m ever going to be able to understand the argument of this group of people since none of them will try to articulate their concern”. That sucks man. I suspect you have told us you have no problem just being quiet, but you have also run off to an echo chamber somewhere to tell your buddies that you too were silenced by the liberal cabal, never mind most of the people you are talking to used to call themselves Republicans.

we are never going to solve our problems if we don’t understand each other and we are never going to understand each other when one side refuses to engage. Engage or be prepared for it to get much worse for us and exponentially worse for your children. 

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lol @ Trump being silenced. He can walk into the WH Press room any time he wants and have 10 live TV networks carry his every word. Probably any time after Jan. 20 he can score an interview and be on tv as often as he wants. Yes, the titty baby can’t tweet - oh noes! How ever will the President speak to his supporters?

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2 minutes ago, ShouldaMarriedAStripper said:

Wall of text, you’ve been warned.

 

The hassles of the last board switch kind of caused me to minimize and then cease my participation here. As someone who doesn’t do social media at all or participate much in online communities, and who is pretty private by nature, removing myself was kind of inevitable at some point. I also realized, when Trump got elected, that the polarization was only going to get worse, and reasonable discourse was going the way of the dodo, and I actually liked many of you bastards, even if you held views I disagreed with, so I bowed out of the Shaggy/Surlyverse.

 

That said, this community is unique. And discovering it was a necessary outlet and a lifesaver at a time when there was a lot of bad shit going on in my life, so I’ll always be grateful to Bob, Rick et al, and I still feel an affinity to this community of assholes, even as a non-Longhorn and indeed someone who’s never been a TX resident. And whenever there’s been something newsworthy happening in TX, it’s still the place I come to first to lurk and get the best and fastest info.

 

I comment now because of the week’s unprecedented events, and also because I think I can provide a perspective that is not common. I grew up in an old money family, in a place that was always studiously apolitical and regarded as the beacon for free market capitalism. There are too many billionaires in my immediate and extended social circles for me to keep straight. Since becoming naturalized, I’ve never voted for a Democrat for national office (state and local, yes.) I’m the last person a so called Conservative could accuse of being their opponent. I consider myself fiscally conservative and socially pretty liberal. I’m not religious- having grown up in a multicultural world, exposed to many belief systems, despite (or perhaps because of) having been baptized in one Christian sect and being schooled by another, I find monotheistic Abrahamic religions to be hypocritical at best, and extremely harmful at worst (whilst understanding the need for humans to believe in something bigger and better than the world they exist in. But don’t give me the “Christianity/whatever religion gives us the beliefs to do good yadda yadda. Everyone in my family who’s done loads of philanthropy has done so because that was their internal code, and none of them were/are believers in a monotheistic Abrahamic religion. Anyway, I digress.)

 

I’ve also spent a lifetime trying to educate myself on the human condition, why the world is the way it is, why people do the things they do etc.- when you’re going out on the yacht every weekend, or flying off to ski in Switzerland as a child at the same time you’re being exposed to refugees and people in poverty, you either develop a conscience and wonder why things are the way they are or you become well, Donald Trump. I also took advantage of matriculating at one of few unis that offers a course of study that examines how economic systems, particularly post-Industrial Revolution, and systems of government, affect one another.

 

Trump isn’t the reason we are in this situation. He’s just an inevitable product of the world we live in. I blame Mark Burnett. If he hadn’t cast Trump in that show, average Americans wouldn’t think he was a genius businessman, they’d see him the way wealthy people in NY or around the world who’ve had to deal with him have always seen him: as the narcissistic moron who somehow always managed to weasel his way out of any consequences of his (usually stupid) actions. The fact that shameless opportunists have milked this for all they can, from Murdoch, Hannity and such to the Cruzes and Hawleys of the world, shouldn’t surprise anyone. Posters like Loather are part of the problem, but we also have to understand why so many supposedly educated people buy into what Trump et al are selling and unhinged conspiracy theories like QAnon. (And yes, QAnon people, my family shows up on your internet lists of the cabal of elites who are controlling the world due to membership in XYZ organization, or association with ABC person, so clearly this is all an attempt to stop you from exposing us.)

 

No system of governance, no empire, no nation state, no society that humanity has tried has endured forever. Why do we think think Western style Democracy allied to unfettered Capitalism (whilst enabling and embracing totalitarian regimes as long as they buy into the “Capitalism” part of the equation and give our companies access to their markets and/or cheap/unregulated labour in the name of “globalization”) is any different? Especially in a unique nation, where our past has created fervently held beliefs in freedoms that technology allows bad actors to abuse, and that has an unaddressed historical inequity because of slavery?

 

Every single system of a society/civilization we have tried has consisted of tremendous inequities, often initiated by the sword. The East India Company didn’t project the British Empire’s influence peacefully. And all of the great empires of the 19th century and their economic might were built on exploiting the people and natural resources of other nations, whether it was forcing opium onto the Chinese in return for the tea they wanted, or umpteen other examples of Imperialistic gun-barrel “economics” on top of the “diplomacy”.

 

The Industrial Revolution, and every other “economic miracle” we’ve had has been built on the suffering of people and/or resource draining of nations, to the benefit of some at the expense of others, be they factory workers in late 19th century Great Britain or the PRC factory workers churning out cheap goods today for our consumption. Rebuilding after global conflicts provided 20th century opportunities for great economic growth, but at the cost of tens of millions of deaths and great destruction.

 

The one constant, the glue holding it all together, has always been hope. Hope that there’s a better future for someone. Bad shit happened, but we can rebuild and make it better etc. The narrative re: the youth in this country of today not having the chance at the same stable, secure future that their Boomer or Gen X parents had is accurate. But why is that so?

 

IMO, the Democratic Party of my youth, post-Civil Rights movement, had one job: to reign in the worst instincts of free market, small government, every man for himself Capitalism that the GOP catered to. The problem was, from the time Marx and Engels were galvanized to write down their ideas for a better, fairer system by the penurious conditions suffered by 19th century factory workers, human nature has meant that “everyone should have the same” was an impossible ideal.  Socialism, or even “liberal” economic ideas, never really worked long term outside of small nations with exceptional circumstances (Norway with their trillion $ North Sea oil funded sovereign wealth fund for 4 million people, on top of not having to spend much on defense etc.) And whether it was Labour in the UK, or the Democrats here, the realization that “unfettered capitalism” seemed to work better than “Socialism”, or even Keynesian theories or whatever, and that’s why they kept losing elections, brought to fruition Blair and Clinton’s pivot to “Globalization” as the answer to keep providing hope since there wasn’t another world war to rebuild from, or industrial or technological revolution to spur growth.

 

The problem is, in the past, the people of First World countries were always the beneficiaries of the system. It wasn’t them being take advantage of, it wasn’t their natural resources being pillaged by a foreign corporation. But our middle class, instead of being the middle of 300 million Americans, and better off than 90% of the world’s population, when the barriers to protect local markets were taken away were now part of an ecosystem that is 7 billion people. And globalization may have benefited the 400 million new middle class Chinese it’s created, but it sure as hell didn’t benefit all the people here who used to be able to rely on a solid middle class future built on manufacturing. And we didn’t have a plan or vision, or will, to fund programs to give those people hope now that there are no more countries to take advantage of to improve our lot as a bubble of 300 million people.

 

I think you see all these white small business owners, and educated white professionals, jumping on the batshit crazy QAnon train because they’ve seen what happened to the manufacturing sector here, and they’re scared shitless that a world where “their people” are losing their privilege means they’re next, and everything they’ve got is at risk. So pointing out the lack of logic in their viewpoints, or trying to reason with them, is pointless, unless there’s a way to address those fears instead of stoking them as Trump, and the GOP with their complicity, have done.

 

When the Haves face the prospect of getting some of their advantages taken away in an attempt to give the Have Nots a chance at becoming one of the Haves, what do we expect to happen? 

 

What’s the answer? I wish I knew. I don’t think we’ve ever come up with a system that treats everybody well, so maybe there is no answer. Maybe western style democracy allied with unfettered Capitalism will inevitably fail just like all previous systems of operating a functioning society mankind has tried have eventually failed. We came a lot closer to our Republic falling this past week than I ever thought I’d see in my lifetime. I figured it would be my grandkids who’d have to deal with it.

 

Shit on Loathe all you want. He deserves it by coming here and spouting the same tired BS the self-proclaimed silent majority of so called “Conservatives” spout to try to defend their indefensible views. But unless we figure out a way to address the existential issues at hand, the ignominious (and hopefully peaceful and un-disastrous) denouement of Trump’s catastrophic term in the days to come won’t make these people feel less threatened, and that means the threat to the Republic’s existence still remains.

 

Tl;dr I know. If you’ve all discussed this umpteen times, mea culpa, I haven’t been around. Just be glad I’m not posting my thoughts on this pandemic and how it’s been mishandled, given my health care professional relative who was heavily involved in a major vaccination effort in China and on the front lines of SARS and other recent Asian epidemics, and my other relative who is a Nobel-level award winning doctor in a field that encompasses viruses and pandemics.

 

Nice to see a lot of the familiar Shaggy names still here. Hope you and your loved ones all remain safe and healthy until we get COVID under control. Condolences to all who’ve suffered losses. I need a cheat sheet for the user name changes that have occurred though. And Fitlump is on Austin’s City Council?! That to me might be the single biggest sign of the coming Apocalypse. And when did the Cloak Room become the bastion of sanity and DT the lunatics’ asylum?! Oh, and condolences on Sark.

Wall of text pasted not as plain text.

You're gonna get neg bombed....

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3 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

These biggest reason these shit dribbling troglodytes are getting caught is because they’re loud blabbermouths who are incapable of not bragging and letting everyone know how “important” they are.
 

Shit now I’m thinking maybe Trump had nothing to do with it

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3 hours ago, Loather said:

  This will be my last comment on this, it went just as expected. I will tell you this, I am concerned about the country and my children for the first time in my life. The media has everyone stirred up to the point that they are not thinking rationally. This is not funny or entertaining anymore. This is getting serious. We are seeing things we never thought we would see in this country. You guys are pretty lightly discussing censoring people, arresting people, once these things get going they might take on a life of their own

  I think Trump is a buffoon. People that know me have heard me say that many times, and as I pointed out above, I think he crossed over into criminality last week. You didn't hear that part. All you heard is I dared to voice a slightly differing opinion than yours and I am an "Ignorant Fucking Rube" So, ill shut up. No problem.

Nothing wrong with this post and no need to go away. But if you are going to blame the media for being the cause of this you are going to need some concrete examples

 

One thing I often see from otherwise reasonable “conservatives” is the constant linking of the most extreme acts of the fringe of Antifa and BLM activists with mainstream democrats. I have taken to telling them if they are going to do that then they need to accept Timothy McVeigh, Dylan Roof, Patrick Crusius, and James Fields as solidly in their team and defining what they as conservatives are about. You absolutely label one without labeling the other. Otherwise you are simply fear mongering.

With the events of last Wednesday though right wing violence is now indelibly linked with the mainstream Republican Party. The sitting Republican president literally called them into action. It was what they were “standing back and standing by” for since that debate. It’s why they heeded his call to come to Washington on Jan 6. And when he gave the order they marched on The People’s House with murderous intent. Nothing the protesters on the left have done comes close to rising to the level of insurrection we saw unfold. Be honest about shit like that and we can start to have a conversation. 

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What kind of toad would come empty-handed to the BBQ?

I know, right?

I am HORRIBLE cook but I make sure to bring beer or wine or liquor or soft drinks or waters if it’s a tamer gathering.

Even those of us who are cooking challenged can bring something worthwhile. Don’t cop out and just bring cups and napkins and shit - unless requested.
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Here's a question for my tech-literate friends:  can the FBI geo-fence every phone and find out  whether or not it was ever in the capital building during the time of the riot?

Wouldn't it be funny if Bubba Bois d'arc of  Fritters, Alabama gets a knock on his door at 2:16 a.m. on Monday morning after he thinks he's safe? 

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8 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Here's a question for my tech-literate friends:  can the FBI geo-fence every phone and find out  whether or not it was ever in the capital building during the time of the riot?

Wouldn't it be funny if Bubba Bois d'arc of  Fritters, Alabama gets a knock on his door at 2:16 a.m. on Monday morning after he thinks he's safe? 

 

Yes.

 

Now, they probably can't get to the square foot,  due to building interference and whatnot but they can put the capitol in the center of a radius of 1/2 a mile or so, then take that list and start working their way down. 

 

Edit:   Here's an article from September where a court ruled the feds can't do this:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/08/new-federal-court-rulings-find-geofence-warrants-unconstitutional-0

Now, maybe the parameters of this decision is different from the Capitol being invaded.

 

 

Edited by Francisco 2.0
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9 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

When they’re in power- foment division and violence

when out of power- demand dems focus on unity and diffusing the violence they encouraged. 

And this is where we find out if the Dems have any intention of actually doing anything. Perfect opportunity to grow a spine. 

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1 hour ago, Llogg said:

Stop straw manning this shit as if policy viewpoints are being censored. No one is for censoring actual political discourse. Everyone should be for censoring calls for armed insurrection against the United States government.

Correct.  Government officials and media promulgating lies, promoting conspiracy theories and willful incitement of insurrection are not viewpoints.  They are crimes and should be treated as such.  

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1 hour ago, Pig Bellmont said:

lol @ Trump being silenced. He can walk into the WH Press room any time he wants and have 10 live TV networks carry his every word. Probably any time after Jan. 20 he can score an interview and be on tv as often as he wants. Yes, the titty baby can’t tweet - oh noes! How ever will the President speak to his supporters?

He is aware nobody wants to see his fat treasonous ass lie and guzzle water like a raccoon because the adderal has addered all.

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Frankly at this point, I think the best punishment would be to strip him naked, and have Stormy Daniels whip his fat ass with a magazine across the state of Alabama on into Florida, tossing out an assortment of suckers and whatever amount he paid her, in $1 bills.  Let the people look at the emperor.  

Edited by Judge Roybeanbag
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3 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Frankly at this point, I think the best punishment would be to strip him naked, and have Stormy Daniels whip his fat ass with a magazine across the state of Alabama on into Florida, tossing out an assortment of suckers and whatever amount he paid her, in $1 bills.  Let the people look at the emperor.  

Team Exile.

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9 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Frankly at this point, I think the best punishment would be to strip him naked, and have Stormy Daniels whip his fat ass with a magazine across the state of Alabama on into Florida, tossing out an assortment of suckers and whatever amount he paid her, in $1 bills.  Let the people look at the emperor.  

Hey, a dollar is a dollar.

I'll be there.

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3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Republicans not demanding Trump’s immediate resignation is far more divisive than anything democrats are suggesting.

This.

That letter enrages me. These craven, sanctimonious blowhards are so sleazy and dishonest that they can't even admit this transcends partisanship and cuts at the core of what it means to be an American. If you can't denounce in the strongest words possible that this was TREASON and was an attempted coup against the US govt with individual participants openly calling for the execution of members of our government, then you deserve to be impeached along with Trump. 

Party affiliation is insignificant and irrelevant, this is about holding those in power accountable for the most egregious act ever committed by an elected official in history. 

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7 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

This.

That letter enrages me. These craven, sanctimonious blowhards are so sleazy and dishonest that they can't even admit this transcends partisanship and cuts at the core of what it means to be an American. If you can't denounce in the strongest words possible that this was TREASON and was an attempted coup against the US govt with individual participants openly calling for the execution of members of our government, then you deserve to be impeached along with Trump. 

Party affiliation is insignificant and irrelevant, this is about holding those in power accountable for the most egregious act ever committed by an elected official in history. 

This.  You don’t get a fucking mulligan on treason.   You denounce it, or you pay the price,  EVEN if you denounce it, if you supported it, you pay the price.  There are no take-backs.

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