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Eyes Report - Recruiting impact


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3 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I'm not sure there's any recruiting impact to discuss.

Some folks will believe it. Some folks won't. Rival schools will dismiss it and continue to negative recruit Texas as a racist institution run by rich racists. 

And quarantining the responses to this correct statement is the point. 

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If Texas had been consistently sending 1st & 2nd rounders to the league the past 10 years this would be a huge nothing burger.

Sark and his staff have a much different message to deliver recruits than what Herman could. This issue will fall to the wayside until the next thing to use against Texas emerges.

Ultimately if Sark can put guys into the league that will be all that matters to recruit. If Alabama gets a hall pass for all of its racist history then UT can get around singing "The EOT"

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1 minute ago, BrazilHorn said:

Ultimately if Sark can put guys into the league that will be all that matters to recruit. If Alabama gets a hall pass for all of its racist history then UT can get around singing "The EOT"

That's what I was thinking. It's not like any SEC school has any pristine record on this issue. 

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18 minutes ago, honolulu horn said:

I think I'm confused, because I don't see what other school can claim piety on this issue. Yes, Texas has some reckoning to do both historically and currently. But don't all non-HBU schools? I mean, how on earth would aggy possibly negative recruit Texas on this issue? 

We're just the one currently in the news. The current "paragon of institutional racism" school rotates.

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27 minutes ago, honolulu horn said:

because I don't see what other school can claim piety on this issue

They can't. But most other schools aren't having any of these issues popping up right now while trying to sell their message to 15-17 year olds. Hard enough for adults to think reasonably and logically about things.

Now personally I don't think it'll mean too much, but yah, I can maybe see a recruit or two who're on the fence being swayed the opposite way. A lot of it will have to do with how Sark and the staff address it with the athletes and their families. Obviously, you'd prefer not having it be an issue at all. 

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Like any story it needs oxygen to live, it will get some additional run when the report is published tomorrow but I don't expect it will contain any bombshells that will fundamentally change where we were two weeks ago before the Tribune article was published. 

Sark was hired and immediately said that the Eyes was the school song and it will be sung after games. None of the current members of the team had any pushback and opposing coaches weren't able to use that soundbite to keep him from coming out of the gate hot in recruiting. If we can collectively keep from losing our shit this week it will all be fine.

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35 minutes ago, honolulu horn said:

I think I'm confused, because I don't see what other school can claim piety on this issue. Yes, Texas has some reckoning to do both historically and currently. But don't all non-HBU schools? I mean, how on earth would aggy possibly negative recruit Texas on this issue? 

a kid dumb enough to pick A&M over Texas for that reason isn't a kid you can reasonably expect to keep academically eligible anyway

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10 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

a kid dumb enough to pick A&M over Texas for that reason isn't a kid you can reasonably expect to keep academically eligible anyway

"Don't go to Texas, you'd have to live in racist Austin. Come be with us in the multicultural shambala of Norman, Oklahoma or Waco, Texas." If that pitch works, the kid has some developmental delays that the UT Ed. department is not qualified to help with.

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It mostly won't have an impact at all. I will say that all of you guys talking about aggy or the SEC aren't thinking this through. The biggest impact would be made out west, if there is impact to make. Esp with this staff making a move out west - if I were one of the schools out that way I'd find creative ways to keep that story in front of the parents for sure.  

also, you don't bring up Texas directly in a pure negative recruiting way -  you just ensure that your commits and leans comment/RT/amplify discussions around the subject, bonus points if you get current and former Horn players commenting endlessly to do the work for you. You just keep the fires stoked without ever bringing Texas up directly. 

 

It's full of sound and fury and signifying nothing but the BMDs and olds need to let this shit go right now. 

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I think I'm confused, because I don't see what other school can claim piety on this issue. Yes, Texas has some reckoning to do both historically and currently. But don't all non-HBU schools? I mean, how on earth would aggy possibly negative recruit Texas on this issue? 
Do you even aggy history bro? Lets just say it's a wee bit revised and spun with maroon flavoring..
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Actually, I wish to correct myself. This bullshit has already had a massive impact on one major recruit - Quinn Ewers. He witnessed the debacle after the game in the Cotton Bowl - and I don't give a shit who is to blame for it and what the excuses are - and decided he didn't want to play with a bunch of assholes that would leave a teammate hanging like that. So yeah, I guess the whole EOT bullshit will impact recruiting, because it already has. Unintended consequences from manufacturing controversy? You don't say. 

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I would think its easily spun into a positive light, the students/athletes had an issue/concern the university took it seriously and investigated it. That the findings were contrary to their initial concerns is irrelevant, you have a voice and you will be heard. Come to Texas and be heard.  

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Yeah, I bailed on the EOT threads on this site a long time ago, after reading a series of longtime posters tripping over themselves to be the most eager to throw The Eyes in the trash. Like, immediately. On day 1. The entire thing made me angry at an unhealthy level. 

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33 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

Actually, I wish to correct myself. This bullshit has already had a massive impact on one major recruit - Quinn Ewers. He witnessed the debacle after the game in the Cotton Bowl - and I don't give a shit who is to blame for it and what the excuses are - and decided he didn't want to play with a bunch of assholes that would leave a teammate hanging like that. So yeah, I guess the whole EOT bullshit will impact recruiting, because it already has. Unintended consequences from manufacturing controversy? You don't say. 

The real reason Ewers left.  Fucking turbocunt Tom...

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1 hour ago, closetojumping said:

For personal sanity reasons, I've been nothing but dismissive of this entire imbroglio from the jump. I don't give one fuck about whatever label can be thrown at me because I can condemn an action versus a tool and don't give a fuck what a bunch of 18-22 year old people have to say about it.

That all considered, my dismissiveness continues as it pertains to recruiting and the "findings" that could offset some of the manufactured angst. "I didn't go to Texas because of the EOT intractability from their alumni base" will be a reason for a player not coming to UT about as often as "academics" are a priority for a recruit who then turns around and signs with places like OU, LSU, and Bama. 

People make decisions based on emotion and then find whatever rationale they possibly can grab onto in order to justify their position. This bullshit as an excuse to look elsewhere will never be an even vaguely deciding factor for recruits. Some might attempt to claim as much, and they'll be as full of shit as the issue in the first place.

Are you trying to say that you're about to stop taking Wescott Ebberts seriously as a journalist?

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37 minutes ago, LW Goatman said:

At least we didn’t have a crew of old white men gather on campus and call the athletes a bunch of “blackies” to their faces.

All of those guys are creating a human shield around the Sul Ross statue down the road. 

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6 hours ago, honolulu horn said:

I think I'm confused, because I don't see what other school can claim piety on this issue. Yes, Texas has some reckoning to do both historically and currently. But don't all non-HBU schools? I mean, how on earth would aggy possibly negative recruit Texas on this issue? 

Every school will absolutely claim piety and every school will trash Texas for being a fundamentally racist institution. Recruiters and coaches could care less about facts. When you are alone with a potential player and his family, everything is fair game.

ca·ve·at emp·tor
/ˌkavēˌät ˈem(p)ˌtôr/
 
 

 

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2 hours ago, LW Goatman said:

At least we didn’t have a crew of old white men gather on campus and call the athletes a bunch of “blackies” to their faces.

This would never happen in modern day America. 

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I certainly hope none of the recruits who shun a Texas offer because of the eyes goes and buys a VW product (Porsche, Audi, Lamborghini, Bugatti, Ducati) if they make it to the league and find themselves with some disposable income.

Oh, and Mercedes as well...the Nazi's chosen horseless carriage of the early 1940's.

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Reflections on the Eyes of Texas History Committee's Report

Quote

Dear UT Community,

Everything we do at UT Austin comes back to three things: research, teaching and changing the world. Our work around “The Eyes of Texas” is no different. In particular, the work of the history committee focused on research. Next, we will focus on teaching and changing the world. In part, that means continuing to foster an inclusive campus where all Longhorns belong and are welcome.

I want to thank every member of The Eyes of Texas History Committee, which has now released its report, for approaching this task with open minds, conducting their work with academic rigor, seeking the truth, and braving many difficult topics. Not only have they created a piece of interdisciplinary research that will benefit future generations, they have modeled an approach to a complex and emotional issue that we can replicate across campus — indeed, across society. This model is vital because we’re not moving on from this — we’re moving forward … together.

One of the ways we’re moving forward is through the committee’s excellent set of recommendations. We can enact many of them, and a few really spoke to me — for example, leveraging alumni to build a more robust mentoring network, creating history exhibits and teaching modules, and working with the Texas Exes to establish scholarships that encourage a more diverse Longhorn Band. These ideas, along with those we committed to during the summer, show how our goal of creating a welcoming campus goes far beyond discussions of our alma mater. 

At the same time, I understand our conversations around the song will continue. Thanks to the committee, we move forward in those discussions equipped with a common set of facts. It’s now very clear to me, having read the report, that the history of our alma mater is complicated — more complicated than perhaps any of us knew. As the report’s executive summary points out, the story of “The Eyes” mirrors the greater history of this university, indeed that of our state and nation. Parts of that history are inspiring and surprising. Other parts are disappointing, even painful. 

One aspect of my decision to keep “The Eyes of Texas” as our school song leans on this concept of mirroring. There is much we would like to change about American history. But while the American story is imperfect, I believe it is positive overall, even as we need to continue to teach and learn from the imperfections. Embracing the past means embracing both the tragedy and triumphs of our history — confessing the former and celebrating the latter.

Another aspect of my decision leans on the concept of free speech. For this reason, let me be very clear: As always, no one is or will be required to sing “The Eyes of Texas.” As Professor Rich Reddick, our committee chair, has said, “Traditions do not endure through disrespect, coercion, or threat.” I wholeheartedly agree — and in the same spirit of free speech, no one should shout down those who wish to continue in the tradition of singing. My hope is that we can sing it together, mindful of our university’s past and proud of the progress we’ve made since the 19th century. 

The report makes it clear to me that “The Eyes of Texas” is a song of accountability that has been used to bring Longhorns closer together. I truly believe “The Eyes of Texas” can again be a force for accountability and unity among our students, faculty, staff and alumni. We need only look at the past for evidence. Our song started out as a request for students to do the right things at all times to protect a fledgling university from risking its future. Over time, it was sung by an increasingly diverse community of students and scholars, becoming a rallying cry for excellence as our university matured and grew into the true flagship of our state. 

Finally, on some special occasions, the song was used to fight injustice. For example, Texas suffragists deployed the song in defense of voting rights during the 1910s. In another example, students sang it during the 1940s at the Texas Capitol in defense of academic freedom and educational opportunities for Black students in our state. In those special moments Longhorns flipped the script. The eyes of Texas were no longer upon them. Instead, they became the eyes of Texas, fixing their gaze on some of society’s most pressing problems and controversies. 

I hope we can recover more fully this part of the song’s legacy. I would love to see “The Eyes” become one of our rallying cries as we hold ourselves and others accountable, fostering a welcoming campus and seeking a more just world. How do we do that? What do we set our eyes upon?

We will find the answer together. And it will come back to those three things I mentioned earlier: research, teaching and changing the world. Because that is what we do here — all the livelong day. 

Hook ‘em,

Jay Hartzell
President

 

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29 minutes ago, ousux said:

I certainly hope none of the recruits who shun a Texas offer because of the eyes goes and buys a VW product (Porsche, Audi, Lamborghini, Bugatti, Ducati) if they make it to the league and find themselves with some disposable income.

Oh, and Mercedes as well...the Nazi's chosen horseless carriage of the early 1940's.

Putting the word "recruit" into this post doesn't make this thread the right place for it.

I've read most of the report this morning, the school did a really good job in putting together the committee and report. Unless there is another shoe to drop I can't imagine much recruiting impact. Like @Michael Knight mentioned upthread, I think it could actually all be used as an example of the University taking its athletes' concerns sincerely. Good recruiters on the staff have plenty to point to if it's ever even brought up by a HS kid.

 

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Thanks to @Machinator for this -- definitely recruiting related...

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A few years ago, I stopped listening to Michael Jackson songs if I had the choice. This isn’t because I didn’t love “Thriller” or “Beat It” or “Rock With You.” Like millions of other kids who grew up in the 1980s, I wore out my copy of the Thriller cassette and begged my parents to let me buy Bad when it arrived in stores. But the more information that emerged about Jackson and his relationship with children later in life, the less I could stomach listening to those songs. Jackson 5 tunes feel different because Michael himself was a child at the time, but the songs he recorded as an adult are tough to listen to after digesting that information. I don’t think these songs should be banned from the radio. I don’t care if anyone else listens to them. But I would prefer not to.

Plenty of us have made decisions about the music of Jackson or Chris Brown or R. Kelly. Artists who make their political beliefs known have been tuned out if those beliefs differ from those of a particular listener. That isn’t limited to either side of the political spectrum. It has happened to Kid Rock, and it has happened to the Dixie Chicks. That last group is from Texas and has recently rebranded itself as just The Chicks, and that probably makes this the best place to jump off and explain why we’re talking about music in a football column. A song has become a major issue in a major football program, and what makes this so thorny is different people hear different things when they hear a song — whether it’s the lyrics, the instrumentation, the origin or the perceived intent of the artist.

And all of those things matter when we’re talking about “The Eyes of Texas” as it relates to the Texas football team.

On Tuesday morning, a committee commissioned by the University of Texas released a 57-page report examining the history of the school song, which for decades has been sung by fans and by the members of the Texas football team following games. Last year, Black students from across the campus — including some athletes — demanded that the song be replaced as part of a list of desired actions by the university. Many of these were taken by the school, including stripping the name of unabashed racist Robert Lee Moore from a campus building and erecting a statue of Julius Whittier, the football program’s first Black letterman. But “The Eyes” remains the alma mater. The argument predictably spilled into sports because the most prominent playing of the song is after football games. It mushroomed when a large group of players decided to remain in the locker room following the loss to Oklahoma. Never mind that this was not a normal game and there was a significant delay because a healthy chunk of time passed while Oklahoma players remained on the field to celebrate their four-overtime rivalry win. A photo endured. That photo enraged the Texas fans who believe the team should stand and sing the song. The ensuing debate brought donors to their keyboards, and the Texas Tribune last week offered a sampling of what Texas administrators were told by their fans and contributors. Meanwhile, several players said they were warned not staying on the field for the song would result in donors pulling money or post-college job opportunities evaporating.

The findings of the report attempt to contradict the belief that the song has racist origins. According to previously accepted lore, the phrase “the eyes of Texas are upon you” was first uttered during Texas president William Prather’s inaugural speech in 1899. According to the tales passed down by the university and by the alumni association, the phrase was an homage to a postbellum statement attributed to Confederate commanding general Robert E. Lee while Prather was a student at Washington College in Virginia. A few years later, some students wrote a song referencing the phrase and poking fun at Prather. The song was first performed in 1903 at a minstrel show where white performers likely wore blackface. What makes this case particularly interesting is that the recent pushback against the song didn’t emerge from anyone providing new information. The song’s defenders decry “the narrative” that has made the song controversial, but that narrative was established over decades by the university itself.

The report released Tuesday attributes this to mistakes in the memory of former engineering dean T.U. Taylor, from whose 1938 memoir emerged the previously accepted tale of the song’s provenance. The committee finds no evidence that Lee, while president of Washington College while Prather was a student, said “the eyes of the South are upon you.” But the report does use Prather’s own words in a 1900 speech — which may have included the actual first utterance of the phrase “the eyes of Texas are upon you” — to trace the phrase back to Confederate general Maxcy Gregg. This excerpt of that speech, according to the report, was printed in the University Record.

“I recall reading an incident during the battle of the Wilderness at a time when it looked as if the day was lost,” he said. “General Robert E. Lee rode up and felt the emergency was upon him ‘What brigade is this?’ he asked of the commanding officer, Gen. Gregg. ‘The Texas brigade,’ was the answer. ‘When you strike the enemy, charge them,’ said Gen. Lee. ‘Texans always move them.’ Then taking off his hat, he rode forward and proposed to lead them. General Gregg gave the command: ‘Attention, Texas Brigade! Forward! The eyes of General Lee are upon you!’ This day, young ladies and gentlemen of the College, I give you your marching orders for the session, ‘Forward! The eyes of Texas are upon you!’”

Holding up any act by the Confederate army as heroic would have been considered completely normal among a group of white people in Texas in 1900. Back then, most of those people never would have considered that a Black person might have a completely different perspective. But in 2021, we do understand that. So saying “it wasn’t Robert E. Lee; it was this other Confederate general talking about Robert E. Lee” isn’t going to make the song any more attractive to people who have every right to be offended by anything involving the Confederacy. The report is exhaustive, and it does an excellent job of providing context for the singing of the song throughout its history — including the times when it has been a protest song. But this only underscores the issue. There is no one-size-fits-all way to feel about a piece of music.

By its very nature, music affects everyone differently. At Texas, the various constituencies have spent far too much time arguing about the song itself and not about what actually matters specifically in this case, which is this: It is generally inadvisable to force someone to participate in the singing of a song that person believes to be inappropriate, and it is objectively foolish to try to force football players to stand on the field for a song they dislike when the acquisition of the best players requires those players to choose your institution over similar ones that will not require them to do that.

Think of it this way. I left Sports Illustrated in 2019 to work at The Athletic. If The Athletic forced me to sing “Dirty Diana” in public every time I filed a story as a condition of my employment, I would have stayed at SI or gone to a different company. It wouldn’t have mattered to me if the founders of The Athletic considered “Dirty Diana” to be a sacred song because it isn’t a sacred song to me. And that’s really what we’re talking about here. At its core, “The Eyes of Texas” is a spoof of a Dean Wormer-esque university president set to the tune of “I’ve Been Working On The Railroad,” a song that — seriously checkered history notwithstanding — is one of the dumbest things we were forced to sing in preschool. None of that is in dispute. So why waste so much time worrying about it?

“The Eyes of Texas” is a very important piece of music only if you graduated from Texas and loved your four years in Austin. For the rest of us — and this includes the vast majority of the football players the Texas coaching staff would like to choose Texas instead of Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Alabama, LSU or Ohio State — it’s a meaningless ditty at best. Depending on your own experience and how the history of the song hits you, it may feel like an insult that so many people happily sing it. So when new Longhorns coach Steve Sarkisian stands and says players will “sing that proudly,” coaches at programs that recruit the players Texas wants take notice. They’ve already added this to their recruiting pitch: “Do you really want to go to a place where they’re going to force you to stay on the field for a song you think is racist?” This is the lowest hanging recruiting-battle fruit imaginable.

Some of you may be yelling at your screens now. The song, you’re saying, isn’t racist. But here’s the problem. In terms of the business of winning football games, it doesn’t matter if you think it’s racist. It only matters what recruits think. And it really only matters what the best recruits think. Some may have no issue with the song. They’ll sign with Texas. They’ll stand for the song and sing. But not every prospect will feel that way. Expect coaches of the Longhorns’ rivals to offer versions of the song’s history with a message that Texas will force them to sing it, and expect Sarkisian and athletic director Chris Del Conte to have to swallow hard when a player they really want asks “So I have to stand there for that song?” Because in that moment, it only matters how that player feels about the song. And just as he probably can’t make you feel the way he feels about it, you probably can’t make him feel the way you feel about it. This is the part where a little empathy could go a long way.

Unless you write seven-figure checks to the Texas athletic department, that elite recruit’s opinion matters a lot more than yours. And even if you write seven-figure checks, that recruit’s opinion might still matter more. How much was Ricky Williams’ attendance at Texas worth? How about Vince Young’s? Is it worth missing out on the next such player because you want to make him sing the same song you sing and have it mean the same thing it means to you?

This is the part where the song’s defenders bemoan “cancel culture.” But what is cancel culture if not the market reacting to new information or a change in societal mores? Some of you may threaten to cancel your subscription to this very site because you disagree with what I’ve written here. Are you participating in cancel culture by literally canceling something? If that’s what you want to call it. But the truth is you’re entitled to feel however you want about what I write, and you shouldn’t pay for it if you don’t feel it’s worth your $6.99 a month. Someone tries to cancel Chick-fil-a every other week. Yet the lines continue to wrap around the block. Why? The answer isn’t entirely ideological. Those waffle fries are delicious, and nobody else can serve that many diners that efficiently in one lunch rush. So Chick-fil-a endures. If the song packs enough meaning for enough people, it will survive this. But if it doesn’t, then it probably wasn’t worth all this hand-wringing in the first place.

The solution in terms of the football program has been obvious all along, but the Texas administration keeps getting in its own way because the Texas administration almost always gets in its own way. The leaders at Texas fail to understand what the administrations at Alabama, Oklahoma and Ohio State grasp completely. Want donors to donate? Win championships. Want donors to complain? Don’t win championships.

No matter what a donor might say in an e-mail, that person would much rather have a national championship football team than a team that sings a particular song after the game. And the way you win national titles is by not playing yourself when it comes to the pursuit of championship-level players. Yes, Texas A&M has its players sing a song after games. But its most controversial aspect is a call to saw off the horns of the Texas mascot. Only aspiring PETA members are going to object. (Texas A&M players did object to a statue of Sul Ross on campus, but the difference between that statue and this song is that they don’t have to ever have anything to do with that statue if they don’t want to.) Ohio State players sing, too. But only those offended by lavishing praise on our nation’s 17th state (“Carmen Ohio”) or by catchy 60s jams (“Hang On Sloopy”) would complain. If Alabama players had to stick around and sing “Rammer Jammer” (they don’t), a word from Nick Saban about how the two-minute delay harms the preparation for the next opponent would put an end to the practice without complaint. Besides, Alabama fans are just happy to once again be allowed a second-half singalong of “Dixieland Delight,” a song from a native band (Alabama, naturally) about having sex in a truck on the side of the road in Tennessee that was banned for several years because fans made the lyrics even bawdier.

The solution for Texas is simple. Play the song after each game. Whoever wants to sing it can sing it. But if some players head to the locker room instead of raising the Hook ’em sign and singing, don’t get mad. Don’t give it another thought. Worry about whether they can beat Oklahoma and win the Big 12 for the first time since 2009.

Ultimately, the Longhorns who don’t want to sing the song and the fans who want everyone to sing it do have at least one desire in common — for Texas to win football games. Ripping current players and making the program tougher to sell to future players doesn’t help Texas win football games. The best way to handle this and win more is to respect how the players feel about the song. Those who wish to sing can sing. They can stay on the field and celebrate with the fans or they can go to the locker room and celebrate with one another. Or Longhorns leadership can keep getting in its own way by trying to dictate how a song should make another person feel. If they continue, they’ll probably wind up on the wrong side of history and the wrong side of the win-loss column.

 

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Quan says negative recruiting about the EOT may backfire on other schools since TEXAS has made great efforts related to the work of this Committee and change...

Hasn't seen as much from other schools.

 

 

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