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ERCOT Urging For Energy Conservation


Vic Mackey

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3 hours ago, HornOnTheBayou said:

Yep, the Luddites had the right idea

image.thumb.png.31a579dc30d9de385ea2257492579ce1.png

Big difference is that a bitcoin mine is not producing anything of value or "taking" a job from a person. It's just sucking up electricity to prop up what has developed into an extremely elaborate ponzi scheme

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  • 2 weeks later...

This is 99.999999% chance that this is going nowhere. I'm probably way wrong but I doubt the state's energy companies want to expand the State market to outside competitors. 

 

https://www.kxan.com/news/texas-politics/greg-casar-aoc-to-propose-connecting-ercot-to-other-power-grids/

Two Democratic members of Congress are planning to put forward a plan that would require Texas to connect to other larger power grids in the nation, potentially upending the state’s standalone approach to producing and overseeing its own energy market.

U.S. Rep. Greg Casar, D-Austin, announced he’ll author a bill called the “Connect the Grid Act” alongside U.S. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York. While his office is not sharing many details yet about the proposed legislation, the lawmakers said they’ll speak more in-depth about the particulars during a news conference planned for Wednesday afternoon.

According to a news release, though, the progressive lawmakers said the legislation “would require the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) to connect to the nation’s major electric grids.” However, the proposal may not gain much traction in the Republican-controlled U.S. House of Representatives amid a major election year.

“By connecting the ERCOT grid, all Texans and Americans would have more reliable electricity, saving lives in future natural disasters,” the release continued. “The U.S. would also be better-able to reach its climate goals with Texas’s clean energy production.”

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29 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

This is 99.999999% chance that this is going nowhere. I'm probably way wrong but I doubt the state's energy companies want to expand the State market to outside competitors. 

 

https://www.kxan.com/news/texas-politics/greg-casar-aoc-to-propose-connecting-ercot-to-other-power-grids/

Two Democratic members of Congress are planning to put forward a plan that would require Texas to connect to other larger power grids in the nation, potentially upending the state’s standalone approach to producing and overseeing its own energy market.

U.S. Rep. Greg Casar, D-Austin, announced he’ll author a bill called the “Connect the Grid Act” alongside U.S. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York. While his office is not sharing many details yet about the proposed legislation, the lawmakers said they’ll speak more in-depth about the particulars during a news conference planned for Wednesday afternoon.

According to a news release, though, the progressive lawmakers said the legislation “would require the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) to connect to the nation’s major electric grids.” However, the proposal may not gain much traction in the Republican-controlled U.S. House of Representatives amid a major election year.

“By connecting the ERCOT grid, all Texans and Americans would have more reliable electricity, saving lives in future natural disasters,” the release continued. “The U.S. would also be better-able to reach its climate goals with Texas’s clean energy production.”

I'm sure they'll get that knocked out and passed in no time. 

Chelsea Peretti Eye Roll GIF by Brooklyn Nine-Nine

 

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30 minutes ago, Smax said:

Thought this was pretty cool

 

 

Now just imagine if we were banking that power in storage rather than giving it to Chinese bitcoin miners and then paying them to turn off when there's a pinch. 

Really exciting to see so much growth in renewable energy though

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16 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

This is legitimately fucking awesome.  And flies in the face of everything this state does politically.

Abbott knows that another grid failure is just about the only way he gets unelected. I don't care the motivations. I'm just glad ERCOT/PUC/the lege/Abbott are on board. It was inexcusable what happened during the 2021 shitstorm. They all should've been fired and unelected after that bullshit.

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They are onboarding more alternative energy to blame this coming summer and winter.  So as an excuse to roll it back and pay more for LNG.  There’s also a side angle play to permit new SMRs which I’m cool with.  I’ll go a typical long diatribe about it all later.  But it’s a mid-term con game with regard to batteries.  

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1 hour ago, YGIFS said:

They are onboarding more alternative energy to blame this coming summer and winter.  So as an excuse to roll it back and pay more for LNG.  There’s also a side angle play to permit new SMRs which I’m cool with.  I’ll go a typical long diatribe about it all later.  But it’s a mid-term con game with regard to batteries.  

I disagree. No politician on either side of the aisle wants another grid failure. It would be beyond gross incompetence if it happened, again. That's a quick way to get the full ire of the voting public. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, YGIFS said:

They are onboarding more alternative energy to blame this coming summer and winter.  So as an excuse to roll it back and pay more for LNG.  There’s also a side angle play to permit new SMRs which I’m cool with.  I’ll go a typical long diatribe about it all later.  But it’s a mid-term con game with regard to batteries.  

What? No. They are onboarding more renewable energy because that is what private entities are offering to build. The projects coming online now have been in the works for years. This is not some secret plan, it is the market doing its work despite the political rhetoric. The economics of renewables are simply better. 

Edited by Dahobbs
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

What? No. They are onboarding more renewable energy because that is what private entities are offering to build. The projects coming online now have been in the works for years. This is not some secret plan, it is the market doing its work despite the political rhetoric. The economics of renewables are simply better. 

Like I said...

But truthfully, my buddy (is a longhorn and) is in the renewables space. He was at a conventional generator for most of his career in various capacities and the stories he told me about trying to build generation plants was crazy...  From acquiring land to permits to materials and labor, everybody involved wanted their lagniappe. Not shit got built in many many years.

I don't know how wind farms come together so easily, but I just landed at IAH from the west coast, and there are turbines everywhere once you hit the Texas border. The money must be good and easy (relative to LNG power gen).

I'll have to ask him about the major differences. He's all in on renewables... Even bought himself an electric truck.

Edited by Slacks
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They are onboarding more alternative energy to blame this coming summer and winter.  So as an excuse to roll it back and pay more for LNG.  There’s also a side angle play to permit new SMRs which I’m cool with.  I’ll go a typical long diatribe about it all later.  But it’s a mid-term con game with regard to batteries.  

What the fuck are you talking about? Rolling back renewables to pay more for LNG? Last I checked no one in Ercot is buying LNG. & no one is rolling back renewables any time soon, they are more of the grid everyday.
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Horns99 said:


What the fuck are you talking about? Rolling back renewables to pay more for LNG? Last I checked no one in Ercot is buying LNG. & no one is rolling back renewables any time soon, they are more of the grid everyday.

There was a proposed rule change by ERCOT to penalize batteries as energy storage for having less energy available as they discharge. 

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/ercot-battery-capacity-rule-NPRR-1186-state-of-charge-SOC/697653/

https://www.eenews.net/articles/how-a-grid-rule-change-could-derail-texas-renewables/

It's effectively just rote applying the generation rules for fossil fuels generation over onto renewables, which have a fundamentally different operating cycle. Such moves by ERCOT are strong evidence of an intent to kneecap renewables. 

Plus ya know, their whole blaming of the entire February 2021 outage on renewables. 

Edited by Captainant
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16 hours ago, Captainant said:

There was a proposed rule change by ERCOT to penalize batteries as energy storage for having less energy available as they discharge. 

Wait, what?  A battery is an energy bucket.  It can store a fixed amount of energy.  That energy gets doled out as power (watts = joules/sec) and over time the stored energy depletes.  At that point the battery must be recharged.  It is literally analogous to the gas tank in a car.

It doesn't matter what form of energy the battery stores -- electrochemical (lead-acid, lithium-ion, hot salt, etc.), potential (pumped hydro, etc.), kinetic (flywheels, etc.).  Maximum stored energy is fixed and it can eventually be drained.  This is not a "failure mode" or even a flaw.  It's physics.

(Not that you don't know this @Captainant, but I get pissed off when politicians misconstrue fundamental physics to help line the pocketbooks of their supporters.)

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Wait, what?  A battery is an energy bucket.  It can store a fixed amount of energy.  That energy gets doled out as power (watts = joules/sec) and over time the stored energy depletes.  At that point the battery must be recharged.  It is literally analogous to the gas tank in a car.
It doesn't matter what form of energy the battery stores -- electrochemical (lead-acid, lithium-ion, hot salt, etc.), potential (pumped hydro, etc.), kinetic (flywheels, etc.).  Maximum stored energy is fixed and it can eventually be drained.  This is not a "failure mode" or even a flaw.  It's physics.
(Not that you don't know this [mention=51]Captainant[/mention], but I get pissed off when politicians misconstrue fundamental physics to help line the pocketbooks of their supporters.)

Do batteries run directly on Dino juice 100% of the time…which is what puts the money in the pockets of rich donors, who then transfer some of that money to the politicians they have bought? No? Well then, now you understand why they are proposing rules that would penalize batteries. They want to incentivize one thing and one thing only: fossil fuel generation. They regret like hell the lurch towards renewables.
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Not sure where else this goes since it's going to be more and more of an issue. Maybe start a "What the fuck is wrong with you, Bitcoin miners?" thread.

Y'all see the recent Bitcoin lawsuit against the DOE?

tldr; Department of Energy initiates an emergency survey on just how much energy Bitcoin mining is utilizing. Texas easily has the most mining operations in the U.S.

So Big Bitcoin says "no, that could reveal proprietary shit" and/or "you need to follow standard procedures" (can agree with that, if that part is true)

So Department of Energy backs off as of a couple days ago and we're no closer to a real picture and facts as of now.

 

So ... do they follow through with a formal "official" request? Will Bitcoin energy vampires companies reveal true data or not?

If Bitcoin did fuck-all for anyone other than make adopters rich doing nothing but running glorified WOPR computers, while generating more digital bullshit I couldn't care less about, then maybe I'd listen to their side.

With energy demand increasing and Texas' inability to meet it, I'm more interested in all the info, because my hunch is these are "get rich at all costs (to others)" types of individuals and businesses.

From Texas Monthly (SIAP)

Quote

The Department of Energy estimates that between 0.6 percent and 2.3 percent of all electricity in the U.S. goes toward mining Bitcoin, Ethereum, and other cryptocurrency. (On the low end, that’s roughly equivalent to all the electricity used in Colorado homes; on the high end, California.) The percentage is likely higher in Texas.  

And as mentioned upthread, Bitcoin companies are gettin' paid for NOT drinking everyone else's milkshake:

Quote

When it is very hot or very cold, ERCOT pays large users to power down. Riot Platforms, a large miner in the Central Texas town of Rockdale, said it earned $189 million mining Bitcoin last year and $71.2 million from ERCOT. This isn’t pocket change. Riot told investors this was “integral to our overall strategy.”

 

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2 minutes ago, gofuckyourself said:

Not sure where else this goes since it's going to be more and more of an issue. Maybe start a "What the fuck is wrong with you, Bitcoin miners?" thread.

Y'all see the recent Bitcoin lawsuit against the DOE?

tldr; Department of Energy initiates an emergency survey on just how much energy Bitcoin mining is utilizing. Texas easily has the most mining operations in the U.S.

So Big Bitcoin says "no, that could reveal proprietary shit" and/or "you need to follow standard procedures" (can agree with that, if that part is true)

So Department of Energy backs off as of a couple days ago and we're no closer to a real picture and facts as of now.

 

So ... do they follow through with a formal "official" request? Will Bitcoin energy vampires companies reveal true data or not?

If Bitcoin did fuck-all for anyone other than make adopters rich doing nothing but running glorified WOPR computers, while generating more digital bullshit I couldn't care less about, then maybe I'd listen to their side.

With energy demand increasing and Texas' inability to meet it, I'm more interested in all the info, because my hunch is these are "get rich at all costs (to others)" types of individuals and businesses.

From Texas Monthly (SIAP)

And as mentioned upthread, Bitcoin companies are gettin' paid for NOT drinking everyone else's milkshake:

 

You'll have to ask the latest reincanation of comrade GRUhorn, @Cum Rocket if you'd like to know "wtf is wrong with you, bitcoiners?"

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I am really curious at how fast the next energy revolution is going to come.  I've been involved in some sort of energy my entire adult life.  I recently jumped into data centers and those things are energy hungry.  They now are planning to go all in on AI stuff and the limitation is going to be energy.  They are pouring a lot of money to do energy.  Wouldn't be surprised if Google and Facebook ended up with an energy subsidiary.

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9 hours ago, gofuckyourself said:

So ... do they follow through with a formal "official" request? Will Bitcoin energy vampires companies reveal true data or not?

China won’t reveal the true data - too much of a risk of people/companies seeing how profitable things can be if they see the energy used and wanting to jump on the bandwagon, or locals getting pissed and driving them out of town.  ERCOT will probably fight the data being revealed as well.

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9 hours ago, Captainant said:

You'll have to ask the latest reincanation of comrade GRUhorn, @Cum Rocket if you'd like to know "wtf is wrong with you, bitcoiners?"

Don’t know why this has got your goat right now, but the known benefits of large flexible loads to electric grids have been discussed here before.  
 

47 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

I am really curious at how fast the next energy revolution is going to come.  I've been involved in some sort of energy my entire adult life.  I recently jumped into data centers and those things are energy hungry.  They now are planning to go all in on AI stuff and the limitation is going to be energy.  They are pouring a lot of money to do energy.  Wouldn't be surprised if Google and Facebook ended up with an energy subsidiary.

Correct. Bye bye energy transition. 
 

 

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1 hour ago, Cum Rocket said:

Don’t know why this has got your goat right now, but the known benefits of large flexible loads to electric grids have been discussed here before.  

Lol yeah it's super beneficial to throw $71,000,000 at a bunch of chinese nationals so they can crash our grid

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15 hours ago, gofuckyourself said:

Not sure where else this goes since it's going to be more and more of an issue. Maybe start a "What the fuck is wrong with you, Bitcoin miners?" thread.

Y'all see the recent Bitcoin lawsuit against the DOE?

tldr; Department of Energy initiates an emergency survey on just how much energy Bitcoin mining is utilizing. Texas easily has the most mining operations in the U.S.

So Big Bitcoin says "no, that could reveal proprietary shit" and/or "you need to follow standard procedures" (can agree with that, if that part is true)

So Department of Energy backs off as of a couple days ago and we're no closer to a real picture and facts as of now.

 

So ... do they follow through with a formal "official" request? Will Bitcoin energy vampires companies reveal true data or not?

If Bitcoin did fuck-all for anyone other than make adopters rich doing nothing but running glorified WOPR computers, while generating more digital bullshit I couldn't care less about, then maybe I'd listen to their side.

With energy demand increasing and Texas' inability to meet it, I'm more interested in all the info, because my hunch is these are "get rich at all costs (to others)" types of individuals and businesses.

From Texas Monthly (SIAP)

And as mentioned upthread, Bitcoin companies are gettin' paid for NOT drinking everyone else's milkshake:

 

The lawsuit and resulting order stopping the survey were honestly pretty meritorious. DOE tried to justify requiring the survey as an emergency measures to bypass normally required formal rule making. But, as important as tracking Bitcoin mining energy usage use is, it isn't an emergency that justifies throwing away normal procedures. Frankly, if the DOE had gotten away with it, it would have set a precedent ripe for future abuse. 

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