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Pipeline Problem Potentially Problematic, production possibly paralyzed


Wally Fairway

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Where is the pipeline cyberattack thread?

If 100 million gallons a day are shipped to the northeast, how long before the refineries have to cut production because there is nowhere to store it? 

Also air travel about to be fucked, because no jet-A going to a whole bunch of airports

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Guest Lobo

For your cyber-nerds, what's your guesstimate on how long an operation like this takes to plan and execute?  I know very little about crime, and less about computers.  but I would think you couldn't just up and pull this off in a matter of weeks.  

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I read the article over the weekend,  basically it says that The SHTF if its not resolved by tomorrow.    Thats the last day they can have minimal impact before we start having gas shortages....    and the Govt has waived the " permit requested no interstate gas in transit" rule    i.e.   tankers are allowed to cross state lines with pure refined gasoline without permit. 

they arent waiving that rule for the hell of it.  Govt thinks we are gonna have fuel shortages on the east coast that last a while.

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3 minutes ago, Lobo said:

For your cyber-nerds, what's your guesstimate on how long an operation like this takes to plan and execute?  I know very little about crime, and less about computers.  but I would think you couldn't just up and pull this off in a matter of weeks.  

5 seconds.

 

its literally 5 seconds for the infection to occur.... that doesnt mean the bad guys ACTIVATE the ransomware right away.   they usually try to gain access to the most sensitive data packs  (especially anything thats encrypted).    hackers cant read the information, but they know if its encrypted, its probably got some importance.

hackers can stay in a network for several months to get as many items infected, so it hurts the most when the ransomware code is activated.   Plus the more items scrambled the more they can ask for in ransom.

 

reality is, usually a few hours / day for a small company.   maybe a week for mid-size companies... and a month or so for large accounts,  unless they hit a jackpot account like a hospital, casino, govt entity, etc, and in those cases the bad guys may go for a multi-month hide and seek game to lock as much stuff as possible.

 

Or, the hackers could say fuck it,  and as soon as someone at the company clicks the wrong link, they just grab whatever that person was working on (which could be something on the main server) and lock it down.

 

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It's wild that there's so much critical infrastructure that is so vulnerable thanks to complete disregard for security best practices.

1 minute ago, Lobo said:

For your cyber-nerds, what's your guesstimate on how long an operation like this takes to plan and execute?  I know very little about crime, and less about computers.  but I would think you couldn't just up and pull this off in a matter of weeks.  

You'd be surprised honestly. If a network isn't properly segmented and/or if the victim entity has a lax security posture, these sorts of things can get out of hand quickly due to the self-replicating nature of worms/trojans. It genuinely could have been just a single dumb user downloading the wrong thing, clicking a bad link, or plugging in a found USB drive on their work machine and not specifically targeted at the pipeline company.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/ransom-group-linked-colonial-pipeline-hack-is-new-experienced-2021-05-09/

It does seem like this group is usually pretty calculated in their attacks and this was just a bad judgement call, especially now that the US government is involved

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Whoops.

Quote

In its own statement, the DarkSide group hinted that an affiliate may have been behind the attack and that it never intended to cause such upheaval. Like some other ransomware groups, DarkSide offers to sell its malware to others in what is known as “ransomware-as-a-service,” according to the cybersecurity firm Cybereason.

In a message posted on the dark web, where DarkSide maintains a site, the group suggested one of its customers was behind the attack and promised to do a better job vetting them going forward.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/white-house-creates-task-force-011812709.html

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23 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

I think that's about $69 in California dollars.

I went to a wedding in Lafayette in Nov'19.  My eyes almost fell out of my head when I saw gas for $1.93/gal.  I must've been in HS the last time it was that cheap out here.

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Hold onto your butts, Colonial saying they hope to have the lines back up and running by weeks end (from the WSJ)

Quote

The operator of the Colonial Pipeline said it hoped to substantially restore service by week’s end, raising the prospect that a cyberattack that took down the primary fuel conduit for the East Coast could last several more days.

The announcement Monday by Colonial Pipeline Co., which runs the 5,500-mile pipeline from the Gulf Coast to Linden, N.J., provided its first timeline for restoring service following the ransomware attack. The pipeline transports 45% of the fuel consumed on the East Coast, according to the company’s website.

and ...

The cybersecurity recovery for the Colonial pipeline could take a few more days and possibly longer, said Marc Ayala, a director of industrial control system security at consulting firm 1898 & Co., part of Burns & McDonnell in Houston.

“Given the breadth of the unknowns, the discovery, containment, decontamination and remediation effort will be lengthy and likely result in a gradual return to operations,” Mr. Ayala said.

 

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Seems like having massive slices of our infrastructure in entirely private hands, with patchwork security and contingency planning, has some downsides that maybe we should try to ameliorate.  Just like having it all run under one umbrella would have downsides.  Whatever the case, the risks are real, and it's literally in our national security interest to try to minimize them.  With some foresight and such.

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2 hours ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

The NSA ought to be able to track fuckers like these down and then we should put a drone strike/cruise missile on their ass.  If certain countries choose to allow this to occur within their borders they should expect repercussions.

This. Make the repercussions so painful that you don’t consider something this massive for a split second. This attack on infrastructure, our electric grid and attacks on hospitals actually lead to consequences that include people dying because of delays in care. 

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it's delusional to think that hackers haven't already hacked into all of the US infrastructure. i know we have and/or are trying to hack into iran, china, russia, north korea infrastructure. russia and china creating firewalls around their natitional networks puts them in a much better security position than our wide open networks. democracy and freedom has it's downfalls.

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30 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

it's delusional to think that hackers haven't already hacked into all of the US infrastructure. i know we have and/or are trying to hack into iran, china, russia, north korea infrastructure. russia and china creating firewalls around their natitional networks puts them in a much better security position than our wide open networks. democracy and freedom has it's downfalls.

It's not the edge of our network that is the vulnerability, it's the endpoints and systems. And that we have extremely lax regulatory requirements for security posture relative to the threat landscape - both digitally and physically

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7 hours ago, Lobo said:

For your cyber-nerds, what's your guesstimate on how long an operation like this takes to plan and execute?  I know very little about crime, and less about computers.  but I would think you couldn't just up and pull this off in a matter of weeks.  

Depends on whether there was social engineering involved, how they entered (did they get lucky and somebody brought something in from home, did they have to target emails of employees, etc.).  There are so many ways this could have played out, including off-the-shelf tools that are not hard to deploy.  

If true, the most surprising thing to me is that the systems that manage the pipeline had external access of some sort. I would think those would be a lot more tightly controlled than that.

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5 hours ago, Captainant said:

It's not the edge of our network that is the vulnerability, it's the endpoints and systems. And that we have extremely lax regulatory requirements for security posture relative to the threat landscape - both digitally and physically

Disagree. Weak security regulatory requirements are not the problem. I did ICS/OT security consulting for several years and there is plenty of regulatory requirements, they are up to their necks in that shit. More of it isn't going to make a difference. 

Critical infrastructure like government infrastructure has systemic issues and there isn't really one or two solutions to fix it.

 

Edited by F250
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10 hours ago, F250 said:

Disagree. Weak security regulatory requirements are not the problem. I did ICS/OT security consulting for several years and there is plenty of regulatory requirements, they are up to their necks in that shit. More of it isn't going to make a difference. 

Critical infrastructure like government infrastructure has systemic issues and there isn't really one or two solutions to fix it.

 

My old man is a long-time pipeline guy.  He has long suggested a simple backup plan: have critical stations able to run on backup dispatching and valve operation manually, done by human beings, with orders etc. dispatched over analog telephone lines.  The old-fashioned way -- shut off all electronics, and do it by hand.  But....having personnel trained and able and available to do that costs money.

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8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

My old man is a long-time pipeline guy.  He has long suggested a simple backup plan: have critical stations able to run on backup dispatching and valve operation manually, done by human beings, with orders etc. dispatched over analog telephone lines.  The old-fashioned way -- shut off all electronics, and do it by hand.  But....having personnel trained and able and available to do that costs money.

Good plan, but look at Austin during the Big Freeze... didn’t know where the manual switch was to start up an emergency backup generator at the water plant.

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1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

My old man is a long-time pipeline guy.  He has long suggested a simple backup plan: have critical stations able to run on backup dispatching and valve operation manually, done by human beings, with orders etc. dispatched over analog telephone lines.  The old-fashioned way -- shut off all electronics, and do it by hand.  But....having personnel trained and able and available to do that costs money.

My last gig was consulting on the planning and installation of a large offshore export facility (85,000 bbl/hr capacity).   I’m not a scada expert by any means, but we had them as part of the team for the design on the scada.  Anyhow, there was several manual backups, all the way down to a secondary communication system.  Even manual (assist) valves, which is a difficult task when you are talking 42” gate valves. Due to the amount of potential surge with a runaway pump etc it was critical we could control it before it went into the drink.  So while it is tremendously automated, I’m certain there are still many manual points of access.  But a bonafide midstream guy could probably explain it in more detail.  I only know we planned it that way and the guys in the know made it sound routine. 

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Meanwhile, the idiot governor of Michigan is still planning on shutting down another major pipeline tomorrow:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/11/michigan-governor-enbridge-line5-shutdown

The state of Michigan has told a Canadian energy company it must shut down a controversial oil and gas pipeline by Wednesday amid growing fears that a spill would be catastrophic to the region, in a feud which threatens to strain relations between Canada and the United States.

The company’s refusal to comply with the order, and swift support from top Canadian officials, highlights the politicized nature of pipelines, which campaigners have used as a target in the fight against climate change.

For nearly 67 years, Enbridge has moved oil and natural gas from western Canada through Michigan and the Great Lakes to refineries in the province of Ontario.

But Michigan says that one section to the pipeline – Line 5 – is too risky to continue operating.

In November, the Michigan governor, Gretchen Whitmer, announced a plan to revoke the easement granted to Enbridge, which permits Line 5 to cross under the Straits of Mackinac. Whitmer set 12 May as the deadline for the Canadian energy giant to shut down the pipeline...

Spoiler

...“These oil pipelines in the Straits of Mackinac are a ticking timebomb, and their continued presence violates the public trust and poses a grave threat to Michigan’s environment and economy,” Whitmer’s office said in a statement.

The company says it has never experienced a leak in the underwater section of Line 5 and is currently working to tunnel beneath the lake bed to further improve the safety of the pipeline. But in the last two years, the pipeline has been struck by boat anchors and cables. And in 2010, a separate Enbridge pipeline spilled 3.2m litres of oil into Michigan’s Kalamazoo River.

Whitmer, who campaigned on shutting down the pipeline, has received support from Democratic attorneys general as well environmental campaigners and Indigenous communities on both sides of the border.

“Should anything that’s being transported in these 67-year-old pipelines get into the Great Lakes, it would have devastating effects and irreparable consequences,” said the Anishinabek Nation grand council chief, Glen Hare, who represents 39 First Nations across Ontario.

In February, a federal court ordered Michigan and Enbridge to enter mediation. Recently, Michigan has argued that the case should be heard by a state court, which could give it a more favourable judgment.

But international trade lawyer Lawrence Herman says that the United States, not Michigan, is legally bound to keep the pipeline running.

He points to the 1977 Transit Pipelines Treaty between Canada and the United States, which was ratified by the US congress.

“Regardless of what the state of Michigan may or may not want to do, the treaty is binding on the United States as a whole,”said Herman. “It’s a matter between the two governments: Canada and the United States.”

Both governments intended the deal to be a long-term arrangement, said Herman, pointing out the treaty requires either side give 10 years notice to withdraw.

“My point is, a deal is a deal,” he said.

Enbridge’s president, Al Monaco, has warned that a shutdown would have disastrous consequences for the country’s two most populous provinces, calling it a “very bad outcome”.

Line 5 delivers nearly half of the oil needs of both Ontario and Quebec, as well as propane for the state of Michigan.

Earlier this month, Canada’s natural resources minister said the continued operation of the pipeline was “non-negotiable” and warned that in addition to thousands of job losses, a shutdown would require 800 tanker rail cars and 2,000 trucks each day to move oil.

Canada and the United States have pledged to reduce emissions, but the two countries remain heavily reliant on oil. The precariousness of energy access was highlighted earlier this weekend after a key pipeline in the US was shut down following a ransomware attack....

...In addition to lobbying by diplomats, the Canadian prime minister, Justin Trudeau, has raised Line 5 with Joe Biden, who has not yet commented publicly on the issue.

Edited by clapclapclap
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19 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

Meanwhile, the idiot governor of Michigan is still planning on shutting down another major pipeline tomorrow:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/11/michigan-governor-enbridge-line5-shutdown

The state of Michigan has told a Canadian energy company it must shut down a controversial oil and gas pipeline by Wednesday amid growing fears that a spill would be catastrophic to the region, in a feud which threatens to strain relations between Canada and the United States.

The company’s refusal to comply with the order, and swift support from top Canadian officials, highlights the politicized nature of pipelines, which campaigners have used as a target in the fight against climate change.

For nearly 67 years, Enbridge has moved oil and natural gas from western Canada through Michigan and the Great Lakes to refineries in the province of Ontario.

But Michigan says that one section to the pipeline – Line 5 – is too risky to continue operating.

In November, the Michigan governor, Gretchen Whitmer, announced a plan to revoke the easement granted to Enbridge, which permits Line 5 to cross under the Straits of Mackinac. Whitmer set 12 May as the deadline for the Canadian energy giant to shut down the pipeline...

  Reveal hidden contents

...“These oil pipelines in the Straits of Mackinac are a ticking timebomb, and their continued presence violates the public trust and poses a grave threat to Michigan’s environment and economy,” Whitmer’s office said in a statement.

The company says it has never experienced a leak in the underwater section of Line 5 and is currently working to tunnel beneath the lake bed to further improve the safety of the pipeline. But in the last two years, the pipeline has been struck by boat anchors and cables. And in 2010, a separate Enbridge pipeline spilled 3.2m litres of oil into Michigan’s Kalamazoo River.

Whitmer, who campaigned on shutting down the pipeline, has received support from Democratic attorneys general as well environmental campaigners and Indigenous communities on both sides of the border.

“Should anything that’s being transported in these 67-year-old pipelines get into the Great Lakes, it would have devastating effects and irreparable consequences,” said the Anishinabek Nation grand council chief, Glen Hare, who represents 39 First Nations across Ontario.

In February, a federal court ordered Michigan and Enbridge to enter mediation. Recently, Michigan has argued that the case should be heard by a state court, which could give it a more favourable judgment.

But international trade lawyer Lawrence Herman says that the United States, not Michigan, is legally bound to keep the pipeline running.

He points to the 1977 Transit Pipelines Treaty between Canada and the United States, which was ratified by the US congress.

“Regardless of what the state of Michigan may or may not want to do, the treaty is binding on the United States as a whole,”said Herman. “It’s a matter between the two governments: Canada and the United States.”

Both governments intended the deal to be a long-term arrangement, said Herman, pointing out the treaty requires either side give 10 years notice to withdraw.

“My point is, a deal is a deal,” he said.

Enbridge’s president, Al Monaco, has warned that a shutdown would have disastrous consequences for the country’s two most populous provinces, calling it a “very bad outcome”.

Line 5 delivers nearly half of the oil needs of both Ontario and Quebec, as well as propane for the state of Michigan.

Earlier this month, Canada’s natural resources minister said the continued operation of the pipeline was “non-negotiable” and warned that in addition to thousands of job losses, a shutdown would require 800 tanker rail cars and 2,000 trucks each day to move oil.

Canada and the United States have pledged to reduce emissions, but the two countries remain heavily reliant on oil. The precariousness of energy access was highlighted earlier this weekend after a key pipeline in the US was shut down following a ransomware attack....

...In addition to lobbying by diplomats, the Canadian prime minister, Justin Trudeau, has raised Line 5 with Joe Biden, who has not yet commented publicly on the issue.

She is hated by a substantial number of her constituents, particularly small business owners.

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1 hour ago, Parliament said:

How would you not? Dedicated hard wires?

What do you mean “how would you not”? I’ll give you an example of something I’m somewhat familiar with: a wastewater plant (a.k.a. where poop goes). You are a city and you operate a wastewater plant. There are lift pumps, screens, digestors, etc. All of this stuff is managed by a SCADA (a specialized program running on a computer connected to the sensors and actuators). The computer where SCADA runs is NOT connected to the internet. The only way for the operator to manage the system is sitting in front of the computer where the software is running. There is no remote login. There is no remote technical support. If the operating system or the software need to be updated, the update must be done in person. The only way for a hacker to shut it down is to be physically there. The end.

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2 hours ago, clapclapclap said:

Meanwhile, the idiot governor of Michigan is still planning on shutting down another major pipeline tomorrow:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/11/michigan-governor-enbridge-line5-shutdown

The state of Michigan has told a Canadian energy company it must shut down a controversial oil and gas pipeline by Wednesday amid growing fears that a spill would be catastrophic to the region, in a feud which threatens to strain relations between Canada and the United States.

The company’s refusal to comply with the order, and swift support from top Canadian officials, highlights the politicized nature of pipelines, which campaigners have used as a target in the fight against climate change.

For nearly 67 years, Enbridge has moved oil and natural gas from western Canada through Michigan and the Great Lakes to refineries in the province of Ontario.

But Michigan says that one section to the pipeline – Line 5 – is too risky to continue operating.

In November, the Michigan governor, Gretchen Whitmer, announced a plan to revoke the easement granted to Enbridge, which permits Line 5 to cross under the Straits of Mackinac. Whitmer set 12 May as the deadline for the Canadian energy giant to shut down the pipeline...

  Reveal hidden contents

...“These oil pipelines in the Straits of Mackinac are a ticking timebomb, and their continued presence violates the public trust and poses a grave threat to Michigan’s environment and economy,” Whitmer’s office said in a statement.

The company says it has never experienced a leak in the underwater section of Line 5 and is currently working to tunnel beneath the lake bed to further improve the safety of the pipeline. But in the last two years, the pipeline has been struck by boat anchors and cables. And in 2010, a separate Enbridge pipeline spilled 3.2m litres of oil into Michigan’s Kalamazoo River.

Whitmer, who campaigned on shutting down the pipeline, has received support from Democratic attorneys general as well environmental campaigners and Indigenous communities on both sides of the border.

“Should anything that’s being transported in these 67-year-old pipelines get into the Great Lakes, it would have devastating effects and irreparable consequences,” said the Anishinabek Nation grand council chief, Glen Hare, who represents 39 First Nations across Ontario.

In February, a federal court ordered Michigan and Enbridge to enter mediation. Recently, Michigan has argued that the case should be heard by a state court, which could give it a more favourable judgment.

But international trade lawyer Lawrence Herman says that the United States, not Michigan, is legally bound to keep the pipeline running.

He points to the 1977 Transit Pipelines Treaty between Canada and the United States, which was ratified by the US congress.

“Regardless of what the state of Michigan may or may not want to do, the treaty is binding on the United States as a whole,”said Herman. “It’s a matter between the two governments: Canada and the United States.”

Both governments intended the deal to be a long-term arrangement, said Herman, pointing out the treaty requires either side give 10 years notice to withdraw.

“My point is, a deal is a deal,” he said.

Enbridge’s president, Al Monaco, has warned that a shutdown would have disastrous consequences for the country’s two most populous provinces, calling it a “very bad outcome”.

Line 5 delivers nearly half of the oil needs of both Ontario and Quebec, as well as propane for the state of Michigan.

Earlier this month, Canada’s natural resources minister said the continued operation of the pipeline was “non-negotiable” and warned that in addition to thousands of job losses, a shutdown would require 800 tanker rail cars and 2,000 trucks each day to move oil.

Canada and the United States have pledged to reduce emissions, but the two countries remain heavily reliant on oil. The precariousness of energy access was highlighted earlier this weekend after a key pipeline in the US was shut down following a ransomware attack....

...In addition to lobbying by diplomats, the Canadian prime minister, Justin Trudeau, has raised Line 5 with Joe Biden, who has not yet commented publicly on the issue.

 

2 hours ago, Armybrat said:

She is hated by a substantial number of her constituents, particularly small business owners.

I don't agree with all that she has done, but to put this in some local perspective. Enbridge, in 2010, had a pipeline leak for over 17 hours in Michigan. There were warning lights that lit up in the control room, but the operators didn't understand what it meant. So over a million gallons of a heavy bitumen leaked into a tributary of a river that flows into Lake Michigan. The only good new is that since it was a heavy liquid they were able to contain the spill after it only went 35 miles, before it got the big lake.

 

The line they want to shut down sits on the floor of Lake Michigan, and drowning in wind and weather, a spill there could floor into Lake Huron and down there Erie, Niagara Falls, Ontario and into the St Lawrence river. With a fault load of over 20 million gallons a day, through 60 year old pipes.

And just do you know, of course Canada support keeping the line open. 90-95% of the refined products go back into Canada.

I support replacing the lines with tunnels that are under the lake, not testing on the bottom. This is what Enbridge proposes, but it will take years, first for permits, then to build.

 

Brat, send like all politicans are hates by a lot of their constituents, I'm waiting to see if we can ever elect a moderate again in my lifetime.

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I work in Cybersecurity for a US refiner.  We are hearing that their business network was completely compromised.  OT allegedly was not, but was shutdown as a precaution.  Down since Friday morning, supposed to be back online by this Friday.  The places that are fucked now are from panic buying.  There are imminent supply issues for almost every SE state though.  GA TN SC NC AL MS VA are most at risk and roughly in that order.

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2 hours ago, XYZ said:

What do you mean “how would you not”? I’ll give you an example of something I’m somewhat familiar with: a wastewater plant (a.k.a. where poop goes). You are a city and you operate a wastewater plant. There are lift pumps, screens, digestors, etc. All of this stuff is managed by a SCADA (a specialized program running on a computer connected to the sensors and actuators). The computer where SCADA runs is NOT connected to the internet. The only way for the operator to manage the system is sitting in front of the computer where the software is running. There is no remote login. There is no remote technical support. If the operating system or the software need to be updated, the update must be done in person. The only way for a hacker to shut it down is to be physically there. The end.

This is a blast from the past. One of my first post-High-School jobs was to be the teen flunky at the sewage plant. It was 99% automated, and my job was to take care of the remaining 1%. They always had a teen flunky on site because it was easier than training a monkey.

My main take-away was a bunch of A's in my freshman year of college (so bored that I studied,) and an abiding hatred of Nyquil bottle caps.

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I work in Cybersecurity for a US refiner.  We are hearing that their business network was completely compromised.  OT allegedly was not, but was shutdown as a precaution.  Down since Friday morning, supposed to be back online by this Friday.  The places that are fucked now are from panic buying.  There are imminent supply issues for almost every SE state though.  GA TN SC NC AL MS VA are most at risk and roughly in that order.

In-laws in NC saying they can’t get gas in Charlotte or Raleigh. Picture from a small station near their house.
8941bfa03c801a523d8b9a1e5b7896a3.jpg
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