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Rich people don't pay much in taxes (now in CR) - ProPublica


Wally Fairway

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2 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Well since I wasn’t talking to you maybe you should have either ignored it then or made a substantive response instead of just bashing me instead. Hope it made you feel temporarily better.

You quoted a question I asked someone else and as usual added nothing to it other than a smart ass response taking a potshot at me which I then responded to and then you responded to. It’s not that difficult to look back up a few posts.

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2 minutes ago, Brew said:

You quoted a question I asked someone else and as usual added nothing to it other than a smart ass response taking a potshot at me which I then responded to and then you responded to. It’s not that difficult to look back up a few posts.

We’ve had this same discussion before when talking about the trump tax cuts, which you seemed to support. We just apparently fundamentally disagree on the fairness of our current tax system which I believe benefits the top 1 percent (really more like top .001 percent) owners of capital which based on your posts you seem to have no problem with. I took issue with you asking a non accountant how can they possibly do this when I think you already know how or at least should know how.

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A wealth tax is likely unconstitutional. But how hard would it be to implement a graduated lifetime capital gains tax? Not hard at all. But it will never happen, cuz both parties are in the pocket of the wealthy.

Example. 1st million 15%

2-5 million 20%

5-10 million 30%

over 10 million:  50%

This would also take care of those hedge fund guys that get to claim their income is capital gains.  I'm all for sticking it to Bill Gates and Warren Buffett.

 

 

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26 minutes ago, JohnLocke said:

A wealth tax is likely unconstitutional. But how hard would it be to implement a graduated lifetime capital gains tax? Not hard at all. But it will never happen, cuz both parties are in the pocket of the wealthy.

Example. 1st million 15%

2-5 million 20%

5-10 million 30%

over 10 million:  50%

This would also take care of those hedge fund guys that get to claim their income is capital gains.  I'm all for sticking it to Bill Gates and Warren Buffett.

 

 

Hmm. There might actually be something to the unconstitutional argument. https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/12/17/787476334/is-a-wealth-tax-constitutional

Edited by TwiceHorn
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  • 2 years later...

Well well well...look who is trying to get out of paying taxes. Shocked.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/12/jeff-bezos-move-to-miami-will-save-him-over-600-million-in-taxes.html

Jeff Bezos will save over $600 million in taxes by moving to Miami

Don’t worry about picking up a bottle of wine for Jeff Bezos’s housewarming parties—he can buy his own. The billionaire saved around $288 million in taxes after selling 24 million Amazon shares (about $4 billion worth) over the last week from his new Florida address instead of his former Washington one.

When he first announced he was moving in November, Bezos said he wanted to be closer to family and Blue Origin, but his financial records hint at other possible reasons:

The Amazon founder had been slowly selling off company stock since 1998, but he stopped in 2022, when Washington’s 7% capital gains tax went into effect.

Bezos became a Florida man—and the state doesn’t have capital gains taxes (or income taxes).

Bezos has said he plans to offload about 50 million Amazon shares in total over the next year, worth ~$8.7 billion currently. With a Florida zip code, he could save at least $610 million when he does.

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9 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

If he’s “saving” 600mm, how much is he paying in taxes over that same timeframe?

they are coming to the $610 million by multiplying 7% by the current market value of the 50 million shares he stated he intends to sell - 24 million of which he has already sold.

the 7% is the capital gains tax for the state of washington that began in 2022.

florida does not have a capital gains tax so all of that is saved with no alternative taxes paid.

that is, of course, all notwithstanding the federal capital gains tax he would pay, as well as the article not considering what portion of the current market value of those shares is comprised of the cost basis (if any) which would affect the taxable basis.

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2 minutes ago, sidis said:

they are coming to the $610 million by multiplying 7% by the current market value of the 50 million shares he stated he intends to sell - 24 million of which he has already sold.

the 7% is the capital gains tax for the state of washington that began in 2022.

florida does not have a capital gains tax so all of that is saved with no alternative taxes paid.

that is, of course, all notwithstanding the federal capital gains tax he would pay, as well as the article not considering what portion of the current market value of those shares is comprised of the cost basis (if any) which would affect the taxable basis.

Right. It’s just back of the envelope math. Federal long term cap gains on this would be basically 20%. The tax bill has three commas. 

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correct.  i think it is probably most wrong because i suspect that a material amount of the shares were acquired through compensation after amazon had taken off and had some market value so there would be a cost basis...not just all the shit he gave himself when he started the company.

but it is not wrong to say he eliminated a hundred million plus tax liability by realizing the gain while a resident of florida instead of washington.  it is, of course, the individually smart thing to do but the ethics of it given the importance of washington's infrastructure contributing to the success of amazon's formative years could certainly be debated.

as is the fact that he is definitely paying a tres comas club federal tax bill.

russ-hanamen-non-billionaire.gif

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2 hours ago, sidis said:

but it is not wrong to say he eliminated a hundred million plus tax liability by realizing the gain while a resident of florida instead of washington.  it is, of course, the individually smart thing to do but the ethics of it given the importance of washington's infrastructure contributing to the success of amazon's formative years could certainly be debated.

How much has Amazon paid into Washington state directly over its run? No idea myself, but I am sure that they have more than acknowledged the states infrastructure via their tax payments.

 

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1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

How much has Amazon paid into Washington state directly over its run? No idea myself, but I am sure that they have more than acknowledged the states infrastructure via their tax payments.

 

How much has Amazon avoided paying thanks to tax incentives?

 

On the national level, Amazon pays a lower percentage than you, or I.

In 2021, Amazon avoided $5B, paying 6% on profits of $35B.

 

You really scrape your forehead on the rocks for oligarchs, huh?

 

https://itep.org/amazon-avoids-more-than-5-billion-in-corporate-income-taxes-reports-6-percent-tax-rate-on-35-billion-of-us-income/

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26 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

How much has Amazon avoided paying thanks to tax incentives?

 

On the national level, Amazon pays a lower percentage than you, or I.

In 2021, Amazon avoided $5B, paying 6% on profits of $35B.

 

You really scrape your forehead on the rocks for oligarchs, huh?

 

https://itep.org/amazon-avoids-more-than-5-billion-in-corporate-income-taxes-reports-6-percent-tax-rate-on-35-billion-of-us-income/

You didn’t answer the question. 

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1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

You didn’t answer the question. 

In 2017, for example, they paid 250M.

And, at that rate, it will take close to thirty years for the state and counties to recoup the subsidies they have been given, which, as of this year, is 6.8B

 

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazon-paid-250-million-in-washington-state-and-local-taxes-in-2017-source-says/#:~:text=Share story&text=Amazon paid about %24250 million,on their number of employees.

https://goodjobsfirst.org/amazon-tracker/#:~:text=Subsidies Awarded to Amazon%3A over,to Amazon.com%2C Inc.

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11 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

From your own links, 250MM into washington state and local taxes in 2017 vs. 55.9MM in tax subsidies in WA in 2017. I think that WA and Seattle probably did ok given there are also some odd 60k employees they get to tax. 

 

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33 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

I don’t know.  Amazon is owned by the public - the vast majority anyway.  I totally get the frustration but it would be negligent to not fight for a better deal from varying states and to limit taxes where they can - legally.  
 

Is the system fucked?  Sure.  But corporations are just acting rationally here.  Capitalism run amok.  

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11 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Imagine how stupid you have to be to cite state specific tax revenues and juxtapose them against national subsidy data that includes all states. 

Stupid? Again your narcissism insists you demean others, wormtongue.

I read state and county, after a hurried, and specific, query. If I took the subsidy out of context, then mea culpa. I appreciate the correction. 
 

I answered your question, please answer mine. Why do raging NPDs suck oligarch ass? 

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11 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I don’t know.  Amazon is owned by the public - the vast majority anyway.  I totally get the frustration but it would be negligent to not fight for a better deal from varying states and to limit taxes where they can - legally.  
 

Is the system fucked?  Sure.  But corporations are just acting rationally here.  Capitalism run amok.  

Capitalism is a good thing, until it is not. General motivation and innovation, building wealth among many? That’s beneficial to our society. Grifting on a individual or corporate scale? Not good. 

If a corporation grows while the environment it exists within withers, is that rational?
 

The extreme funneling of money into the hands of a very few is a threat to our national security, however. The examples are many. Peter Thiel, Timmy Dunn, the Kochs. These folks have dangerously oversized influence on the decisions made by state and federal entities, and the future they envision is not a future that fulfills our national values, nor one that promotes peace and general prosperity.

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1 minute ago, Willfully Horn said:

Capitalism is a good thing, until it is not. General motivation and innovation, building wealth among many? That’s beneficial to our society. Grifting on a individual or corporate scale? Not good. 

If a corporation grows while the environment it exists within withers, is that rational?
 

The extreme funneling of money into the hands of a very few is a threat to our national security, however. The examples are many. Peter Thiel, Timmy Dunn, the Kochs. These folks have dangerously oversized influence on the decisions made by state and federal entities, and the future they envision is not a future that fulfills our national values, nor one that promotes peace and general prosperity.

Agreed.  But it’s insane to argue publicly traded stocks should try not to mitigate taxes or negotiate what’s best for them, financially, when moving to other states.  

That’s not how any of this is set up.  Again - close the loopholes or take away some states rights to negotiate…not saying I’m for that, but that’s what may be needed to stop some of the games.  

Chicago is getting crushed with people and corporations leaving for lower taxes.  I think it sucks.  I also would be a moron to ask them to stay under the current varying tax laws/%’s 

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2 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Agreed.  But it’s insane to argue publicly traded stocks should try not to mitigate taxes or negotiate what’s best for them, financially, when moving to other states.  

That’s not how any of this is set up.  Again - close the loopholes or take away some states rights to negotiate…not saying I’m for that, but that’s what may be needed to stop some of the games.  

Chicago is getting crushed with people and corporations leaving for lower taxes.  I think it sucks.  I also would be a moron to ask them to stay under the current varying tax laws/%’s 

I certainly see your point, which is yet another reason conflating corporations and individuals is so fucked. It is not insane to value loyalty in an individual, not moronic to expect an individual to act toward the common good.

 

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