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Wolfgang Puck can’t find waiters because of labor shortage


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1 hour ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Most people want to work. They want to provide for their families and want to have a sense of self-worth, just like you. 

Bullshit - most people don't want to work - just like me. They work because they have to work. Ask everyone on this board if they would rather be in Maui or Bocas del Toro or Madera, or Bali or Kodiak, AK right now. You know the fucking answer. Don't come here and bullshit or try to make philosophical arguments or play devil's advocate or obfuscate. Say what you want to say or get the fuck out. We're all too busy and have too little patience for that nonsense.

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1 minute ago, Bevo said:

Bullshit - most people don't want to work - just like me. They work because they have to work. Ask everyone on this board if they would rather be in Maui or Bocas del Toro or Madera, or Bali or Kodiak, AK right now. You know the fucking answer. Don't come here and bullshit or try to make philosophical arguments or play devil's advocate or obfuscate. Say what you want to say or get the fuck out. We're all too busy and have too little patience for that nonsense.

I said exactly what I wanted to say. Lay off the coffee.

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3 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

I said exactly what I wanted to say. Lay off the coffee.

Well, I'll be more succinct then. You're wrong.

Work fucking sucks. Bosses suck. Managing sucks. Dealing with customers sucks. Dealing with vendors sucks. Not being with your family sucks.

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3 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Well, I'll be more succinct then. You're wrong.

Work fucking sucks. Bosses suck. Managing sucks. Dealing with customers sucks. Dealing with vendors sucks. Not being with your family sucks.

Sorry to hear your job is miserable. Maybe find a different career.

I actually found myself effectively retired in my mid-30s. Living in the mountains, fly fishing every day, spending all day with my family. It was not a satisfying life. I think we are hard-wired to work. The caveman in the tribe that sat back at camp and played with sticks all day didn’t get laid.

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31 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Well, I'll be more succinct then. You're wrong.

Work fucking sucks. Bosses suck. Managing sucks. Dealing with customers sucks. Dealing with vendors sucks. Not being with your family sucks.

All of this. I work at the job I do to provide for my family. I save the way I save so that one day I can do the "jobs" I want to do. I'm not going to go to my wife now and say honey I want to create a video game. It won't pay any money for 3 to 4 years and isn't even assured of making money. Oh and there is a good chance I'll have to take out some sort of loan. 

Unless you are an amazing writer, artist, athlete, most of the high paying jobs in our society are stressed filled thankless jobs which require a lot of time and energy. 

My wife and I don't have to worry about money but our trade off is high stress and feeling overworked.  Hopefully it pays off in about 4 to 5 years.

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4 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

I meant it. I’m sorry that you are miserable in your career.

If you want to be mocked all day by everyone on this board, keep up with the charade that you started that "most people want to work". I don't even know why you are on this board instead of working. It makes no sense if it is taking away from what really makes you happy, work. People work because they have to work. Most don't forgo their paycheck because of the joy of working and their lack of time and desire to be able to spend it. Sure, there are some miserable fucks who live to work, but they are few and far between. And I guess there are people out there like yourself who can't enjoy fishing and hiking and camping and driving Lambos and flying Gulfstreams and enjoying museums and the arts. However, most people would rather have hobbies and families to keep busy as opposed to say getting up at 6am to go to work and dealing with traffic for the enjoyment of great bosses and co-workers and vendors and customers.

And just because you bore me, https://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/04/more-than-half-of-working-moms-would-prefer-to-be-at-home-survey-finds.html

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3 minutes ago, Bevo said:

If you want to be mocked all day by everyone on this board, keep up with the charade that you started that "most people want to work". I don't even know why you are on this board instead of working. It makes no sense if it is taking away from what really makes you happy, work. People work because they have to work. Most don't forgo their paycheck because of the joy of working and their lack of time and desire to be able to spend it. Sure, there are some miserable fucks who live to work, but they are few and far between. And I guess there are people out there like yourself who can't enjoy fishing and hiking and camping and driving Lambos and flying Gulfstreams and enjoying museums and the arts. However, most people would rather have hobbies and families to keep busy as opposed to say getting up at 6am to go to work and dealing with traffic for the enjoyment of great bosses and co-workers and vendors and customers.

And just because you bore me, https://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/04/more-than-half-of-working-moms-would-prefer-to-be-at-home-survey-finds.html

You deserve to be happy. Good luck 👍 

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46 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

You deserve to be happy. Good luck 👍 

Summary: Only 13 percent of people worldwide actually like going to work  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-leadership/wp/2013/10/10/only-13-percent-of-people-worldwide-actually-like-going-to-work/

 

And btw, I actually like what I do but I would rather be doing lots of other things. You would too. You are just full of shit and continue to type nonsense because you don't like being wrong. But ask yourself this, "Why are you on this board"?

 

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8 hours ago, elfenix said:

Anyway, the whole point of ending enhanced UI early was to force people back into work, and that just doesn't seem to have happened.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/politics/expiration-enhanced-unemployment-has-not-led-more-applications%C2%A0%C2%A0-194149

Because they did nothing to address childcare issues and peoples COVID fears. 

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Bullshit - most people don't want to work - just like me. They work because they have to work. Ask everyone on this board if they would rather be in Maui or Bocas del Toro or Madera, or Bali or Kodiak, AK right now. You know the fucking answer. Don't come here and bullshit or try to make philosophical arguments or play devil's advocate or obfuscate. Say what you want to say or get the fuck out. We're all too busy and have too little patience for that nonsense.

That is just wrong. Many people introduce themselves and find their identity through their vocation. The reality is that we like to be industrious and when we are no longer able to do so we have a tendency to suffer. Check out the rates of depression and how it increases post retirement.

You will also find that those who can afford to retire often do not. Our resident big cigars work. Gates, Bezos, Buffet and others like him all work. And when they exit the rat race they get involved in charities.

You are also painting an inaccurate picture of domestic life and it’s monotony along with the psychological impact of changing your social network.

Being out of a job doesn’t mean zero work. It means waking up the family and getting them going. It means planning food for the weeks, it means being on call when there are illnesses and it means you are surrounded by children and people talking about children all day long. It means you forgo listening to your favorite podcast about the history of Ancient Greece because you cannot appreciate it. It means you don’t read to learn complicated subjects because you cannot pay attention, instead you get an occasional Sedaris while you shit. You get bored and try to take a class at the local university and you get interrupted 5x inside of 5 minutes while you are trying to solve a problem because no one respects your time. After all, you have all day to do this.

It means washing the same clothes and the same dishes over and over. You are constantly listening to the hum of machines or the noise of whatever electronic babysitter you employed so you can take a shit without being interrupted. You realize you have less time, because now your kids are growing and they need help with school, and so in the evenings after trying to unfuck the house all day, you get one kids ready for ballet, another for baseball, and you get to make and clean up dinner. Then read them stories and put them to bed.

Then your spouse decides this is the time to tell you about their hard day, because some doofus made an error and their culture of poor communication and planning caused your spouse a headache at work. Poor spouse gets to talk to adults about interesting projects and that is so stressful for them. They remind you they put in 40-50 hours a week, and you quietly sit there thinking, I would do that job for free to escape from this. Then you realize you might want to unretire.

The grass is greener my friend.
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28 minutes ago, Nivek said:


That is just wrong. Many people introduce themselves and find their identity through their vocation. The reality is that we like to be industrious and when we are no longer able to do so we have a tendency to suffer. Check out the rates of depression and how it increases post retirement.

You will also find that those who can afford to retire often do not. Our resident big cigars work. Gates, Bezos, Buffet and others like him all work. And when they exit the rat race they get involved in charities.

You are also painting an inaccurate picture of domestic life and it’s monotony along with the psychological impact of changing your social network.

Being out of a job doesn’t mean zero work. It means waking up the family and getting them going. It means planning food for the weeks, it means being on call when there are illnesses and it means you are surrounded by children and people talking about children all day long. It means you forgo listening to your favorite podcast about the history of Ancient Greece because you cannot appreciate it. It means you don’t read to learn complicated subjects because you cannot pay attention, instead you get an occasional Sedaris while you shit. You get bored and try to take a class at the local university and you get interrupted 5x inside of 5 minutes while you are trying to solve a problem because no one respects your time. After all, you have all day to do this.

It means washing the same clothes and the same dishes over and over. You are constantly listening to the hum of machines or the noise of whatever electronic babysitter you employed so you can take a shit without being interrupted. You realize you have less time, because now your kids are growing and they need help with school, and so in the evenings after trying to unfuck the house all day, you get one kids ready for ballet, another for baseball, and you get to make and clean up dinner. Then read them stories and put them to bed.

Then your spouse decides this is the time to tell you about their hard day, because some doofus made an error and their culture of poor communication and planning caused your spouse a headache at work. Poor spouse gets to talk to adults about interesting projects and that is so stressful for them. They remind you they put in 40-50 hours a week, and you quietly sit there thinking, I would do that job for free to escape from this. Then you realize you might want to unretire.

The grass is greener my friend.

Look at the numbers and get back with me. 13% of people like going to work. And of those 13% most work because they have to provide for their families and/or themselves not because it fulfills some intrinsic need. It is called work for a reason. Volunteering is called volunteering for a reason. I know very few volunteers who work over 40hrs per week. Volunteers on average work 2.6hrs per week. Most people would prefer volunteering over work. They would not volunteer very much though as evidence shows.

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2 hours ago, Bevo said:

Summary: Only 13 percent of people worldwide actually like going to work  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-leadership/wp/2013/10/10/only-13-percent-of-people-worldwide-actually-like-going-to-work/

 

And btw, I actually like what I do but I would rather be doing lots of other things. You would too. You are just full of shit and continue to type nonsense because you don't like being wrong. But ask yourself this, "Why are you on this board"?

 

I know a lot of older guys who could either retire and don't, or retire and find another job to do. Because sitting around all day not working, kinda sucks.

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Just now, Pam Cummings said:

I know a lot of older guys who could either retire and don't, or retire and find another job to do. Because sitting around all day not working, kinda sucks.

question. how many of these dudes are married? perchance, these married dudes want to get the fuck out of the house because something something.

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1 minute ago, crash_davis said:

question. how many of these dudes are married? perchance, these married dudes want to get the fuck out of the house because something something.

You may be on to something, but most of their wives work too. There's a group of retired guys that hangs out at the golf course that i frequent. Guess what their favorite activity is, you guessed it, sitting around bitching.

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3 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

You may be on to something, but most of their wives work too. There's a group of retired guys that hangs out at the golf course that i frequent. Guess what their favorite activity is, you guessed it, sitting around bitching.

when i retire, it sure the fuck wont be to sit around with a bunch of other dudes whining about shit. i'll be traveling, fishing, and playing golf sans the 19th hole circle jerk bitching about shit.

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1 hour ago, Incredulity said:

I have seen a few guys retire with grand plans to fish, hunt, travel... spend about 6 months doing that and then drink themselves to death over a few years out of boredom.

i've traveled enough of this country to know that i haven't seen nearly enough of this beautiful country. have plans to buy a built out van or build out a van/tahoe/truck/jeep and do some traveling. i'm not a huge drinker so don't have to worry about becoming an alcoholic out of boredom or because my wife nags me to drink.

outdoors is where i'll spend my retirement. 

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Look at the numbers and get back with me. 13% of people like going to work. And of those 13% most work because they have to provide for their families and/or themselves not because it fulfills some intrinsic need. It is called work for a reason. Volunteering is called volunteering for a reason. I know very few volunteers who work over 40hrs per week. Volunteers on average work 2.6hrs per week. Most people would prefer volunteering over work. They would not volunteer very much though as evidence shows.

Like going to work is different from like going to their job.

What is the poll for the people who are unemployed or retired?

What are the rates for those whom have enough money to retire? That last one is the real indicator because well, they can.
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“Contrary to what we usually believe, moments like these, the best moments in our lives, are not the passive, receptive, relaxing times—although such experiences can also be enjoyable, if we have worked hard to attain them. The best moments usually occur when a person’s body or mind is stretched to its limits in a voluntary effort to accomplish something difficult and worthwhile. Optimal experience is thus something that we
make happen. For a child, it could be placing with trembling fingers the last block on a tower she has built, higher than any she has built so far; for a swimmer, it could be trying to beat his own record; for a violinist, mastering an intricate musical passage. For each person there are thousands of opportunities, challenges to expand ourselves.”
 Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi,

TLDR:  pay the man....

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What is thread even about now?

First there were too many jobs, which was bad because people were too lazy to work and just wanted the UI benefits to sit at home and get paid. 

Then they took the UI benefits away and people still aren't going back to work but now it's okay because jobs are stupid and everyone hates them. 

150,000 of the 600,000 COVID deaths are from working age people (18-64)
2.4 million works 55+ have retired since the pandemic started

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14 minutes ago, Js1 said:

What is thread even about now?

First there were too many jobs, which was bad because people were too lazy to work and just wanted the UI benefits to sit at home and get paid. 

Then they took the UI benefits away and people still aren't going back to work but now it's okay because jobs are stupid and everyone hates them. 

150,000 of the 600,000 COVID deaths are from working age people (18-64)
2.4 million works 55+ have retired since the pandemic started

this has probably been address up thread but i would think the lack of immigration is direct factor in unskilled labor shortage. i would think fast food and restaurant industry is the hardest hit by this. if you have ever worked in a restaurant, you know the kitchen, prep, and cleaning staff are mostly latino immigrants. whoda thunk cutting off the supply to that labor market would impact the very industry which relies on that labor. 

so what about non-latinos making up the labor shortage difference? fucking lulz. it's beneath most of them. shit is hard work. 

Edited by crash_davis
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11 minutes ago, Js1 said:

What is thread even about now?

First there were too many jobs, which was bad because people were too lazy to work and just wanted the UI benefits to sit at home and get paid. 

Then they took the UI benefits away and people still aren't going back to work but now it's okay because jobs are stupid and everyone hates them. 

150,000 of the 600,000 COVID deaths are from working age people (18-64)
2.4 million works 55+ have retired since the pandemic started

Plus there aren’t enough child care workers so parents have to stay home. 
Plus people sick and most those jobs don’t pay nearly enough to deal with the, while also being in danger of catching Covid. 
Plus a whole lot of jobs filled by immigrants are empty because there aren’t enough immigrants currently. 
Plus people realize they can do gig work, be their own boss, and come out close enough to be fine without having to slave away under someone else’s thumb.  

The recession in 2008 should’ve reshuffled the job market. It didn’t. Now it’s being reshuffled to the extreme. 

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10 minutes ago, The Ace of Aces said:


Plus people sick and most those jobs don’t pay nearly enough to deal with the, while also being in danger of catching Covid. 

i wonder how much of this factors into it. hourly jobs, especially those in retail and restaurants, have to deal with the added risk of covid. hourly jobs do not pay for/offer health insurance. i wonder how many people thought, yea fuck that risk working for shitty wages, dealing with entitled assholes and karens, all the while worrying about catching covid and dying due to no insurance, or not being able to pay off the medical bills if they survive. 

this whole shitshow may be a blip and everything goes back to "normal" in a year, or this shitshow exposed the shitty system which exploited cheap labor and the cheap labor said fuck it, they're done being shit on by everyone.

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14 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Both valid points as well.  

I'm just y'know, curious how unemployment/job growth not substantially changing after taking away the extended UI benefits now fits a different narrative that was being peddled about lazy welfare queens. 

maybe purely anecdotal but the population of homeless seems to have exploded during covid. it was batshit crazy before. maybe many of these unskilled workers would rather be homeless than working in shitty, dead end jobs. this trend started before covid because there was a labor shortage in the austin restaurant industry. covid is the just icing on that shit cake.

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1 hour ago, The Ace of Aces said:

Plus there aren’t enough child care workers so parents have to stay home. 
Plus people sick and most those jobs don’t pay nearly enough to deal with the, while also being in danger of catching Covid. 
Plus a whole lot of jobs filled by immigrants are empty because there aren’t enough immigrants currently. 
Plus people realize they can do gig work, be their own boss, and come out close enough to be fine without having to slave away under someone else’s thumb.  

The recession in 2008 should’ve reshuffled the job market. It didn’t. Now it’s being reshuffled to the extreme

image.png.e6233c9cfc6cd112735064a5852a0e0d.png

Edited by elfenix
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53 minutes ago, Js1 said:

What is thread even about now?

Apparently outing all the Gen Xers. No wonder there was so much hostility earlier in the thread. People were getting to quit jobs they felt trapped in and found greener pastures. Buncha green-eyed monsters showed up after. I have a good friend who is a Gen Xer and he has been absolutely miserable in his work life the entire time I've known him. He laments about how he wishes he could do something else, about how it's too late for him, about how he has too many liabilities now and that too many people rely on him financially. A prison of his own making, to be honest. In this day and age, with the technology and resources available to anyone willing to learn, there is zero reason to work a job that you don't enjoy with people you don't get along with. I've only worked one job after college that I didn't enjoy and I moved on after 18 months of trying to make it work.

The rat race really is over for a lot of millenials, but especially for the generations after. The workplace is changing. People aren't chained to their desks or really have any co-workers they interact with on a daily basis. The internet lets you monetize literally anything you can imagine. It's a whole new world out there if you're willing to break out of your comfort zone. If you're miserable, out there, I promise that you can find a solution if you really sit down and problem solve it. It won't be immediate, but it takes some of that hard work, consistency, and grit that some of you claim us younger generations don't have.

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On 7/2/2021 at 12:15 PM, tbone_ said:


Ok I just read that whole thing. A) holy shit that was long, and b) it was very well done IMO.

Actually that article is class warfare trash. Getting the middle class and poor to blame the professional class and excusing the top  1 percent is ridiculous but not new. But hey the article was long and had a lot of big words and thoughts.

https://slate.com/business/2018/05/forget-the-atlantics-9-9-percent-the-1-percent-are-still-the-problem.html

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I’m curious about an in depth breakdown of the labor shortage by industry/job type and what those people are doing now. I remain convinced that a large part of this is low paying jobs where you have to interact with lunatics during a pandemic (or even reasonably well paying jobs where this is the case), but I’m sure what is happening right now is complex. I also remain convinced that getting crazy bent out of shape at theoretical slackers who are living the high life on the government dole is a coping mechanism for people who hate their lives. Broadly, people don’t want to be losers. They might rather be traveling the world than working but that requires wealth, which addresses the loser issue.

If the story is that people in shitty jobs got handed enough breathing room to break the cycle and find better employment, that’s wonderful. Sure it’s more complex, but that would be a boon to society. We should somehow replicate it with incels. Free Ubers to South Austin’s mom’s house.

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Actually that article is class warfare trash. Getting the middle class and poor to blame the professional class and excusing the top  1 percent is ridiculous but not new. But hey the article was long and had a lot of big words and thoughts.
https://slate.com/business/2018/05/forget-the-atlantics-9-9-percent-the-1-percent-are-still-the-problem.html

Read your article. What’s its point again?
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If your child care costs 1200/month or 2k/month for two kids, then you need a job that pays at least 20k just to break even for a single kid and you need flexibility with that job as well or 30k to break even for two kids. Meaning, you are just working to pay child care and taxes.

So if you have 2 kids and there is a job that pays you 35k, your actually trading 5k of benefit for not seeing your kids full time. Is that worth it to you?

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12 hours ago, Celery Man said:

I’m curious about an in depth breakdown of the labor shortage by industry/job type and what those people are doing now. I remain convinced that a large part of this is low paying jobs where you have to interact with lunatics during a pandemic (or even reasonably well paying jobs where this is the case), but I’m sure what is happening right now is complex. I also remain convinced that getting crazy bent out of shape at theoretical slackers who are living the high life on the government dole is a coping mechanism for people who hate their lives. Broadly, people don’t want to be losers. They might rather be traveling the world than working but that requires wealth, which addresses the loser issue.

If the story is that people in shitty jobs got handed enough breathing room to break the cycle and find better employment, that’s wonderful. Sure it’s more complex, but that would be a boon to society. We should somehow replicate it with incels. Free Ubers to South Austin’s mom’s house.

Here is a summary of what is happening in healthcare:

There already was a mild shortage of nurses pre-COVID. This is because more people are accessing care because the baby boomer generation is needing more care. The job is stressful and demanding and can't be done from home. The pay is decent but not outstanding ranging from $15 to $25 for assistants and $35 to $50 for registered nurses.

Since Covid, it is common currently in most cities where there are 4X as many individuals needed to work as there are people seeking work. Trade schools have closed during COVID and the ones that are open have fewer students because of COVID. So, supply of new, untrained workers is down. Women have left the workforce for multiple reasons:

1. temporarily due to the dangers of COVIDs and/or due to unemployment benefits and other government benefits (food stamps, Medicaid, child support), home schooling and at home learning for kids make working difficult because no one is home to watch the kids for many women, cost and access to day care has been exacerbated by COVID, elderly family friends and parents are unwilling to watch unvaccinated children, etc.

2. permanently due to early retirement of older workers who didn't want to catch COVID and reassessment of goals of younger workers who were already secondary breadwinners and switching to careers that allow more flexibility where it is possible to work from home

Doctors cannot increase fees easily because of the third payer system and the reliance on pricing by insurance companies. Meanwhile, supply costs have skyrocketed as international supply chains have been broken. So, doctors cannot easily absorb the higher cost of workers. Therefore, like you see at the grocery store, there are longer waits, shorter hours, and fewer workers to take care of the same number of people. It will take time to correct the problem. Prices to consumers will need to increase. Benefits to unemployed potential workers will need to be limited. The stresses on the system due to COVID need to decline. And new workers need to be trained so they can enter the workforce. I am confident over the next few years that this will occur. Otherwise, doctors too will leave the workforce as the longer hours and declining pay and increased liabilities take a toll on the body. Currently, we are getting about 2 shitty job applicants a week vs about 150 prior to the pandemic.

 

 

 

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49 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Here is a summary of what is happening in healthcare:

There already was a mild shortage of nurses pre-COVID. This is because more people are accessing care because the baby boomer generation is needing more care. The job is stressful and demanding and can't be done from home. The pay is decent but not outstanding ranging from $15 to $25 for assistants and $35 to $50 for registered nurses.

Since Covid, it is common currently in most cities where there are 4X as many individuals needed to work as there are people seeking work. Trade schools have closed during COVID and the ones that are open have fewer students because of COVID. So, supply of new, untrained workers is down. Women have left the workforce for multiple reasons:

1. temporarily due to the dangers of COVIDs and/or due to unemployment benefits and other government benefits (food stamps, Medicaid, child support), home schooling and at home learning for kids make working difficult because no one is home to watch the kids for many women, cost and access to day care has been exacerbated by COVID, elderly family friends and parents are unwilling to watch unvaccinated children, etc.

2. permanently due to early retirement of older workers who didn't want to catch COVID and reassessment of goals of younger workers who were already secondary breadwinners and switching to careers that allow more flexibility where it is possible to work from home

Doctors cannot increase fees easily because of the third payer system and the reliance on pricing by insurance companies. Meanwhile, supply costs have skyrocketed as international supply chains have been broken. So, doctors cannot easily absorb the higher cost of workers. Therefore, like you see at the grocery store, there are longer waits, shorter hours, and fewer workers to take care of the same number of people. It will take time to correct the problem. Prices to consumers will need to increase. Benefits to unemployed potential workers will need to be limited. The stresses on the system due to COVID need to decline. And new workers need to be trained so they can enter the workforce. I am confident over the next few years that this will occur. Otherwise, doctors too will leave the workforce as the longer hours and declining pay and increased liabilities take a toll on the body. Currently, we are getting about 2 shitty job applicants a week vs about 150 prior to the pandemic.

 

 

 

Outstanding summary that my wife is seeing play out where she works.  They are severely understaffed on Medical Assistants.  For her office, they furloughed a bunch of people for just 1 month last year, and that was the trigger for the shitshow they're in now.  Government assistant was close enough to what they were getting paid minus childcare, plus they are more available to the family.  The office manager says they get very few good applicants, and even when they hire someone, there is always someone else quitting, so you're in a constant cycle of turnover and training average to below average MAs.

Add on top of that people generally suck, so patient complaints are on the rise.  Office morale isn't great to say the least.

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Nivek and Captainant, please re-read. No one is bitching at employees and no one is bitching at the S&P. I've read tons on the subject with a bunch of biases in them with conservative and liberal slants that distort the issues. Then I read several articles that were specifically industry related which BTW had minimal bias. And then, I've spoken with a bunch of applicants, potential applicants, friends, experts, headhunters and providers and consolidated the info. You are welcome.

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