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Wolfgang Puck can’t find waiters because of labor shortage


Armybrat

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It'll be interesting what the new normal will look like if we remain unable to convince or incentivize people to do their part to combat the pandemic. That's the primary problem, and it seems that the unemployment data could be used to support an argument that dealing directly with combative and/or infectious people during the... what 3rd largest mass death event in US history is a job that you just can't fill without paying for it.

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We have had a number of 20-somethings quit on us this year, saying the job is too stressful.  I'm a Gen-Xer with the "suck it up and do your job" mentality, but it falls flat these days.  But what I will say is if they adopt the approach of wanting job satisfaction above all else, they may have a long road ahead of them.  Among my friends, the most successful are those who, while they may have bounced around early in their careers, ultimately settled into one for the long haul.  Those that have bounced around laterally for a long time have struggled.  It is hard to go vertical if you are always chasing greener grass.  So good luck to them when they are 60 and have had 10-15 jobs and have saved $10,000.   

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2 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

We have had a number of 20-somethings quit on us this year, saying the job is too stressful.  I'm a Gen-Xer with the "suck it up and do your job" mentality, but it falls flat these days.  But what I will say is if they adopt the approach of wanting job satisfaction above all else, they may have a long road ahead of them.  Among my friends, the most successful are those who, while they may have bounced around early in their careers, ultimately settled into one for the long haul.  Those that have bounced around laterally for a long time have struggled.  It is hard to go vertical if you are always chasing greener grass.  So good luck to them when they are 60 and have had 10-15 jobs and have saved $10,000.   

Do you know anything about what the folks who said the job is too stressful are doing now? Curious if they found greener pastures or have taken a step backwards in their career in order to not deal with whatever it is they were dealing with.

I'm not a person who bounces around a bunch - I was with one group for the first 12 years of my career (and am now on to the second as a result of COVID and wanting to move), and did fairly well especially given where I started. However the conventional wisdom for people my age (mid 80s millennials) which seems true from everything I've seen is that staying still is a good way to never get paid what you're worth.

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5 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

However the conventional wisdom for people my age (mid 80s millennials) which seems true from everything I've seen is that staying still is a good way to never get paid what you're worth.

I think Sbbruin was suggesting staying in the same *career*, not necessarily job. Staying in the same job is indeed a great way to never get paid what you are worth. But you can quit your job without quitting your career.

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I'd be curious to know what those folks who are quitting en masse were getting paid. If all they're getting is $15/hr, a full time employee would bring home about $32k/yr before taxes. 

That's poverty pay, and it's unsurprising that people would rather not work at all than get shit on by the public for peanuts. 

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16 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Do you know anything about what the folks who said the job is too stressful are doing now? Curious if they found greener pastures or have taken a step backwards in their career in order to not deal with whatever it is they were dealing with.

I'm not a person who bounces around a bunch - I was with one group for the first 12 years of my career (and am now on to the second as a result of COVID and wanting to move), and did fairly well especially given where I started. However the conventional wisdom for people my age (mid 80s millennials) which seems true from everything I've seen is that staying still is a good way to never get paid what you're worth.

The three went as follows: one quit to move back to AZ to work in the family biz, so not sure what I'd call that, the next just quit with no job lined up, and the 3rd (announced yesterday) got a job in the same field (commercial RE) but in a different capacity, so TBD.  

I guess everyone's situation is different, but I've been with the same company for about 18 years, and I am making roughly 3x's what I made when I started.  Not sure that would've have happened bouncing around.  

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16 hours ago, Celery Man said:

I’m curious about an in depth breakdown of the labor shortage by industry/job type and what those people are doing now. I remain convinced that a large part of this is low paying jobs where you have to interact with lunatics during a pandemic (or even reasonably well paying jobs where this is the case), but I’m sure what is happening right now is complex. I also remain convinced that getting crazy bent out of shape at theoretical slackers who are living the high life on the government dole is a coping mechanism for people who hate their lives. Broadly, people don’t want to be losers. They might rather be traveling the world than working but that requires wealth, which addresses the loser issue.

If the story is that people in shitty jobs got handed enough breathing room to break the cycle and find better employment, that’s wonderful. Sure it’s more complex, but that would be a boon to society. We should somehow replicate it with incels. Free Ubers to South Austin’s mom’s house.

Just catching up here, but what has you so convinced? Because from what I've seen and what I feel, I'm entirely unconvinced. I'm interested in hearing you tease out your conviction.

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1 hour ago, Celery Man said:

It'll be interesting what the new normal will look like if we remain unable to convince or incentivize people to do their part to combat the pandemic. That's the primary problem, and it seems that the unemployment data could be used to support an argument that dealing directly with combative and/or infectious people during the... what 3rd largest mass death event in US history is a job that you just can't fill without paying for it.

I'm not very smart so bear with me here-- am I understanding you that you are saying we should create a job role or requisition or a policy or entitlement (call it whatever), to...pay people to combat the pandemic? Pay people to wear masks, get vax, stay home, etc.?

If so, I'm shocked and a little curious, but also think this is rewarding bad behavior so ultimately should be dismissed.

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23 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

The three went as follows: one quit to move back to AZ to work in the family biz, so not sure what I'd call that, the next just quit with no job lined up, and the 3rd (announced yesterday) got a job in the same field (commercial RE) but in a different capacity, so TBD.  

I guess everyone's situation is different, but I've been with the same company for about 18 years, and I am making roughly 3x's what I made when I started.  Not sure that would've have happened bouncing around.  

back when i took labor economics in ~2000 or so the statistics said go elsewhere every ~2 years your first ~10 years in the biz in order to get ahead. 

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11 minutes ago, elfenix said:

back when i took labor economics in ~2000 or so the statistics said go elsewhere every ~2 years your first ~10 years in the biz in order to get ahead. 

No you don't get it, you have to be LOYAL to your employer so they can continue to pay you less than what you're worth on the open market. 

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23 minutes ago, elfenix said:

back when i took labor economics in ~2000 or so the statistics said go elsewhere every ~2 years your first ~10 years in the biz in order to get ahead. 

Yes, and that's exactly what I did.  From 23-29 I bounced 5 times.  Then just once more at 36.  

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36 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I'm not very smart so bear with me here-- am I understanding you that you are saying we should create a job role or requisition or a policy or entitlement (call it whatever), to...pay people to combat the pandemic? Pay people to wear masks, get vax, stay home, etc.?

If so, I'm shocked and a little curious, but also think this is rewarding bad behavior so ultimately should be dismissed.

No, I’m not suggesting that. I think the part that you’re reading differently than how I intended is… while 15$/hr might have been enough to entice someone to do certain public facing jobs 2 years ago, it is not any longer because people are more unpleasant and dealing with them is more hazardous, because of the pandemic. I’m just saying that possibly regardless of unemployment benefits, people are going to look for different jobs than those ones at that pay scale because those jobs have become much worse.

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1 hour ago, Sbbruin said:

We have had a number of 20-somethings quit on us this year, saying the job is too stressful.  I'm a Gen-Xer with the "suck it up and do your job" mentality, but it falls flat these days.  But what I will say is if they adopt the approach of wanting job satisfaction above all else, they may have a long road ahead of them.  Among my friends, the most successful are those who, while they may have bounced around early in their careers, ultimately settled into one for the long haul.  Those that have bounced around laterally for a long time have struggled.  It is hard to go vertical if you are always chasing greener grass.  So good luck to them when they are 60 and have had 10-15 jobs and have saved $10,000.   

My daughter is in college and working retail, she's been bitching because her boss is horribly lazy but makes a lot of money. I just told her welcome to adulthood. 

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16 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

I’m just saying that possibly regardless of unemployment benefits, people are going to look for different jobs than those ones at that pay scale because those jobs have become much worse.

You can't disregard benefits because they are intertwined. Say you are a mother of 3 and have a boyfriend who has a city employee job. The mother of 3 quits because she can't find care for her kids who caught COVID and one of the kids keeps getting in trouble. Her job didn't pay great but it was decent. She liked what she did and she liked her co-workers. The customers had become a little more unpleasant. Her boss is stressed. For the time being she is fine with her boyfriend's income and benefits. She tries to make money on some sort of side business let's say screen printing that she can do from home. If her boyfriend leaves she may have to take a job. If benefits end she may need to take a job. For now, she is just trying to figure things out. My guess is that her next job will be customer service which she can do from home.

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48 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Yes, and that's exactly what I did.  From 23-29 I bounced 5 times.  Then just once more at 36.  

Yeah your 20s are good for bouncing around between companies in your career path and raising that salary. By 30 you should know what you want. 

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50 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

No, I’m not suggesting that. I think the part that you’re reading differently than how I intended is… while 15$/hr might have been enough to entice someone to do certain public facing jobs 2 years ago, it is not any longer because people are more unpleasant and dealing with them is more hazardous, because of the pandemic. I’m just saying that possibly regardless of unemployment benefits, people are going to look for different jobs than those ones at that pay scale because those jobs have become much worse.

I gotcha-- you are essentially saying that covid-19 has put a premium on this roles that is not going to be clawed back. Toothpaste out of the tube type thing. The CVS cashier is now an $18/hour baseline versus the $12 it was in 2019 (or whatever the actual numbers are) and so if you are a business trying to regress back to the former baseline (or baseline + $1 or something nominal) then it's not going to work out.

I wonder if this has a waterfall effect on the next tier jobs then the next then the next, etc.

The big news this summer was Goldman, Morgan Stanley, JPMC, Citi, etc. all bumping the salaries and pay of associate Wall St. bankers due to the burn out and attrition/brain-drain to the cushier sector of tech which pays the same or better, but also has an obviously better quality of life. I guess that's not directly related to hourly workers getting paid more, but I wouldn't doubt it if that wasn't a factor.

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I always tell her I had to work hard when I was young to be able to fuck around at work when I'm old. Her boss isn't even 30 yet, she's totally cutting in line.

I had a desk job before my flying career. I invented all the stuff Costanza did. I'd look annoyed so people would think I was busy. I'd constantly call time and temperature, or the sports line to check scores so people would think I actually worked. This was pre internet kids.
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1 minute ago, DaysOff said:


I had a desk job before my flying career. I invented all the stuff Costanza did. I'd look annoyed so people would think I was busy. I'd constantly call time and temperature, or the sports line to check scores so people would think I actually worked. This was pre internet kids.

my first job out of college i was making $24k/yr. i sat at a desk all day watching the most fucked up videos i could find on ebaum's world. right up until my computer got a virus and shat the bed. the IT guy comes to my office and does a few things and ends up opening a window with basically the cookie data from my browser. he starts reading through it and just freezes, collects himself, and then prints off dozens of pages worth of cookies...it read like this:

One Armed Girl Uses Construction Cone to Anal Fist

Watch Massive Centipede Crawl Out of Man's Skull

Flying Debris From Sawmill Impales Worker's Face

Two Women Insert Louisville Slugger in Their Ass

and on and on and on.

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4 minutes ago, Foosters said:

My first office job, I'd take a 10 minute cigarette break every 20 minutes.

Holy crap! When I was a cigarette smoker it only took me 5 minutes for a smoke and I only took a smoke break every hour or so. And the non-smokers complained about the smokers getting smoke breaks.

When I was in school I worked part time in telemarketing for the local cable company and we could smoke in our cubicles. They weren’t really cubicles, more like little nooks separated by tiny dividers. Maybe five feet wide and four feet deep? That might be generous. But I’d be on a call and wouldn’t hesitate to fire up in the middle of my patter. Flick, puff, exhale, “But if you don’t have that much free time then that’s all the more reason why you should have cable so that, when you do have time to watch tv, you’ll have more quality tv to watch.”

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4 hours ago, Bevo said:

Nivek and Captainant, please re-read. No one is bitching at employees and no one is bitching at the S&P. I've read tons on the subject with a bunch of biases in them with conservative and liberal slants that distort the issues. Then I read several articles that were specifically industry related which BTW had minimal bias. And then, I've spoken with a bunch of applicants, potential applicants, friends, experts, headhunters and providers and consolidated the info. You are welcome.

Go ahead and cite the sources.   

 

 

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3 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

We have had a number of 20-somethings quit on us this year, saying the job is too stressful.  I'm a Gen-Xer with the "suck it up and do your job" mentality, but it falls flat these days.  But what I will say is if they adopt the approach of wanting job satisfaction above all else, they may have a long road ahead of them.  Among my friends, the most successful are those who, while they may have bounced around early in their careers, ultimately settled into one for the long haul.  Those that have bounced around laterally for a long time have struggled.  It is hard to go vertical if you are always chasing greener grass.  So good luck to them when they are 60 and have had 10-15 jobs and have saved $10,000.   

For many people bouncing from company to company was the only way to advance and increase your earnings.  I found that promotions from within did not pay as well as moving to another firm.   

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5 minutes ago, Nivek said:

For many people bouncing from company to company was the only way to advance and increase your earnings.  I found that promotions from within did not pay as well as moving to another firm.   

this has been my experience. you climb the salary and title ladder much faster by jumping companies. 2-3 years at each job. recruiters and hiring managers used to care about multiple companies every few years. not anymore. if you look good on paper and interview well, no one gives a fuck how long you stayed at your previous job.

 

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2 hours ago, Captainant said:

I'd be curious to know what those folks who are quitting en masse were getting paid. If all they're getting is $15/hr, a full time employee would bring home about $32k/yr before taxes. 

That's poverty pay, and it's unsurprising that people would rather not work at all than get shit on by the public for peanuts. 

Not that $32k is great, but so strange to me that someone would and/or can choose to make $0 instead.

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10 minutes ago, Nivek said:

For many people bouncing from company to company was the only way to advance and increase your earnings.  I found that promotions from within did not pay as well as moving to another firm.   

 

Just now, crash_davis said:

this has been my experience. you climb the salary and title ladder much faster by jumping companies. 2-3 years at each job. recruiters and hiring managers used to care about multiple companies every few years. not anymore. if you look good on paper and interview well, no one gives a fuck how long you stayed at your previous job.

 

Yup.  "Salary Compression."

I work at a very large computer manufacturing corporation.  It's not uncommon for people to work here for a few years, bounce to a higher-paying but similar-level job at a competitor or adjacent-technology company, and then come back 2-3 years later, getting hired back at a higher salary than they would have earned through normal merit increases had they stayed.

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1 minute ago, utee94 said:

 

Yup.  "Salary Compression."

I work at a very large computer manufacturing corporation.  It's not uncommon for people to work here for a few years, bounce to a higher-paying but similar-level job at a competitor or adjacent-technology company, and then come back 2-3 years later, getting hired back at a higher salary than they would have earned through normal merit increases had they stayed.

that happened in telecom and in the manufacturing company i'm at now. leave for a few years, come back with a huge title and salary bump, much much better than if you would have gotten had you stayed and tried to get promoted from within.

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Anyway, for any 20-something  GenZ girls who are looking to escape the rat race, I've heard there's a recent job opening for a social media influencer.

Must like vlogging about cross-country camping in vans.  Van and camera equipment will be provided.

Bring your own bullet-proof vest.

Inquiries can be sent to attorneys in Florida...

 

 

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1 hour ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

my first job out of college i was making $24k/yr. i sat at a desk all day watching the most fucked up videos i could find on ebaum's world. right up until my computer got a virus and shat the bed. the IT guy comes to my office and does a few things and ends up opening a window with basically the cookie data from my browser. he starts reading through it and just freezes, collects himself, and then prints off dozens of pages worth of cookies...it read like this:

One Armed Girl Uses Construction Cone to Anal Fist

Watch Massive Centipede Crawl Out of Man's Skull

Flying Debris From Sawmill Impales Worker's Face

Two Women Insert Louisville Slugger in Their Ass

and on and on and on.

go on.....

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I’m not big on the job movement in my industry. Been at the same place since I interned in college and it’s worked out well. I don’t really have people leaving chasing more money, I have people leaving chasing less than 40 hour work weeks for the same or less money. We’ve had potential partners leave and go to nonprofits recently to work 32-36 hours a week for good money because they don’t want to put in the hours any more and the earnings potential wasn’t the driving factor at this point.

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19 minutes ago, Brew said:

I’m not big on the job movement in my industry. Been at the same place since I interned in college and it’s worked out well. I don’t really have people leaving chasing more money, I have people leaving chasing less than 40 hour work weeks for the same or less money. We’ve had potential partners leave and go to nonprofits recently to work 32-36 hours a week for good money because they don’t want to put in the hours any more and the earnings potential wasn’t the driving factor at this point.

Good for them. We recently implemented an alternating 4-day work week to help folks find more work-life balance. Productivity has gone up, employee satisfaction is up as well. Hopefully it translates into higher retention.

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Swabbin' the deck.

I don’t know what’s right or wrong, but I do know what is. And what is is that our society needs people to swab the deck for it to function well. If the deck swabbers can’t make enough to live and have a life, long term it’s going to be a problem.

Who knows what the solution is but the trend has been in the wrong direction for a while.
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9 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Good for them. We recently implemented an alternating 4-day work week to help folks find more work-life balance. Productivity has gone up, employee satisfaction is up as well. Hopefully it translates into higher retention.

That's fucking awesome for your staff that y'all can do 4 day work weeks. Are y'all doing Friday or Monday off?

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1 hour ago, utee94 said:

 

Yup.  "Salary Compression."

I work at a very large computer manufacturing corporation.  It's not uncommon for people to work here for a few years, bounce to a higher-paying but similar-level job at a competitor or adjacent-technology company, and then come back 2-3 years later, getting hired back at a higher salary than they would have earned through normal merit increases had they stayed.

I'm on my 3rd tour of duty. First two times I stayed 7 years. I'm on 4 years right now. 7 years felt like the point where your title promotions got out of whack with your comp compared to the market. A 20% raise always sounds good on paper until you find out the market rate for that title/experience should have been more like an 80% raise, and you've done that twice. 

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12 minutes ago, tbone_ said:


I don’t know what’s right or wrong, but I do know what is. And what is is that our society needs people to swab the deck for it to function well. If the deck swabbers can’t make enough to live and have a life, long term it’s going to be a problem.

Who knows what the solution is but the trend has been in the wrong direction for a while.

It doesn't make matters any better that they are forced to listen to Ambrosia's One Eighty on loop while @Sbbruin closely monitors from behind a cheese board.

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23 minutes ago, tbone_ said:


I don’t know what’s right or wrong, but I do know what is. And what is is that our society needs people to swab the deck for it to function well. If the deck swabbers can’t make enough to live and have a life, long term it’s going to be a problem.

Who knows what the solution is but the trend has been in the wrong direction for a while.

Well, the world needs deck swabbers too.

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