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Texas Recruiting Notes 2021


Reese Bennett

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5 minutes ago, Getafix said:

 

Sooo .... question for the footbaw cognoscenti.

I'm thrilled that we have Sanders and Bowman.

Question:  How well have we done with elite recruits who came in with some versatility and position flexibility?  Have we moved them around too much, and sub optimized their development?

  • DeMarvion Overshown (247Sports 5 star):  He's going into his junior year.  
  • Tyler Owens (247Sports 5 star):  Soph, so he has time, but where is he on his development curve and his ability to contribute?  What is his official position?
  • D'shawn Jamison (Comp. high 4 star):  That year in the slot was a waste.
  • Malcolm Epps (Comp. 4 star):  Yeah, pu**y, but still ... 
  • Jordan Whittington (Comp. 5 star):  IIRC, played mostly receiver in high school.  Initially, the $9.95ers thought he would play safety.  Stuck to offense.  Moved to RB;  probably need based.  Back to receiver (mostly).  His injury obviously kibboshed his year, but I hope they leave the guy where he is now.
  • B.J. Foster? (Comp. 5 star):  Is this guy settled in?  Safety/LB/Swiss army knife?
  • Roschon Johnson (Comp. 4 star):  This was a success, and the staff should get credit (although this was initiated by Roschon, and was a pretty desperate situation).
  • Others:  There are others who have made smaller moves (within position groups), and some who moved because they probably just didn't cut it at a certain position (Leitao, Cummins).  

- Several of these guys have time, so am not writing them off, by any means.  But would they have been better served by focusing on a position?  Any individual case could be justified;  the aggregate is what makes me wonder.

- The moves of the guys named through Roschon (maybe Epps is an exception) seem like they were very much optional moves, not ones forced by poor performance in one position.  So they didn't HAVE to be made ..... 

Thoughts?

 

Off the top of my head, we've moved folks around way too much and didn't stress some positions early. That being said, in fairness, there's also mitigating circumstances for most of those dudes:

 

Overshown: A kid has to be on board with a position change, and Overshown certainly wasn't early. He's definitely behind the 8 ball learning a position many had him pegged for out of HS. Of course, injuries also factored into this situation, as him taking to longer to realize maybe he was a LB.
Owens: I don't think it's fair he's on this list. I'd have been fine keeping him at safety, honestly, but oh well. This change was made early enough
Epps: Who gives a shit, he fucking sucks dick no matter what
Whittington: It's unfair he's on this list, as his move was desperation based. He's 1 red shirt year down due to injury and going to back to a position he is at naturally. Not a big deal.
BJ Foster: See Overshown above. He's had injury problems. But he seems to have a fit, but they haven't stopped moving him around either. Cause for concern.
Roschon: See Whittington. It's unfair he's on this list, and somewhat moot considering he's a RB long term now, and will never be a QB
 

Let me help you out further with a couple others I find concerning:

Jamison: They wasted a year on offense, literally. He's supposedly a corner now.
Cook: Corner, but now moving to nickel. I realize some cross training happens naturally in the secondary, but still, it's a move 2 years in and it's not a slam dunk Cook makes sense at Nickel. Now he's competing with Foster there too?

The above two also have injury issues that have muddied the waters as well, which seems to be a real problem in our secondary.

My gut says they move guys too much and/or don't do a great job selling a position to HS recruits out of HS, and then waste development time when they switch a year or two down the road. I think it's a concern. Some mitigating factors, but I think it's a problem. Hopefully the problem was the LAST set of coaches on staff. 

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Bama 247 / Hank South / Top100 DL Shemar Turner talks latest with Tide

(Spoiler: Saban doesn't talk to him about football.  He talks to him about graduation rates.)

Spoiler

Top100 DL Shemar Turner talks latest with Tide

Hank South

Shemar Turner earned a nice bump in the Top247 Rankings on Wednesday, as the DeSoto (Texas) product now ranks No. 67 overall in the nation. Turner has a lengthy offer list that tops three dozen programs. Of late, it’s two schools he feels are recruiting him hardest.

“Really right now Texas and Bama, they’re on me pretty hard, those two schools,” Turner told BamaOnLine.

It was Tuscaloosa where Turner visited in early February for Junior Day. Since that trip — Turner’s first to the Capstone — the staff has kept in frequent contact with the four-star defensive lineman.

“Really me and Coach (Freddie) Roach, we’ve been talking a lot,” Turner said. “I’ve been doing a few FaceTime calls with Coach (Nick) Saban. Me and Coach Roach have pretty much been talking about where he’s going to play me, how he’s going to play me, stuff like that.”

Turner was actually supposed to Zoom with the Tide staff on Wednesday, but that meeting got put on hold after his workout ran late.

“They said I’ll play in the base defense,” he said of what Roach has pitched to him. “They said they look at me as a D-end they can bring in on third downs, rush the passer. They can put me in to exploit mismatches on the field, stuff like that. They said when they run their three-man front, I’ll have to be a four-technique, stuff like that. They’re going to teach me to play that.”

Turner and Roach have hit it off.

“We’re cool,” Turner said. “We talk a lot of football. I like the fact that he’s a young coach. Coach Saban is gonna keep him up there.”

When Turner has spoken with Saban, the conversation hasn’t centered much on football.

“He was talking about the graduation rate, all the different alumni, stuff like that, and the image name and likeness deal,” Turner said. “He also talked about the business program. He talked to my mother pretty much about the same thing, name image and likeness with her. Me and him haven’t really talked too much football, but he did tell me pretty much what Coach Roach was telling me, what he wanted me to play and stuff like that.”

Turner looked back on his trip to UA and what he likes best about the program.

“I like that go and get it (mentality),” he said. “All the players there, they’re dialed in. I know they were dogs in high school, but the coaches they got around them, all the strength and conditioning coaches, they really bring that out of them and make them better. It’s real cool. Everybody is cool. I talked to a few of the players, they’re cool.”

As for where things stand in his recruitment, Turner is looking to narrow his list down shortly.

“I’ll drop a top five soon,” he said, adding Alabama will make that list.

Each of the top five will receive official visits depending on how the recruiting calendar shapes up.

“That’s if I don’t commit before I can take officials because I don’t know if we’re going to be able to take OVs,” he said.

For now, Turner says there’s no one team on top as he sorts through his finalists to release a top five.

At 6-foot-3.5, 260 pounds, Turner is rated the No. 10 strong-side defensive end and the No. 122 overall player in the country, per the industry-generated 247Sports Composite Rankings.

 

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8 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Off the top of my head, we've moved folks around way too much and didn't stress some positions early. That being said, in fairness, there's also mitigating circumstances for most of those dudes:

 

Overshown: A kid has to be on board with a position change, and Overshown certainly wasn't early. He's definitely behind the 8 ball learning a position many had him pegged for out of HS. Of course, injuries also factored into this situation, as him taking to longer to realize maybe he was a LB.
Owens: I don't think it's fair he's on this list. I'd have been fine keeping him at safety, honestly, but oh well. This change was made early enough
Epps: Who gives a shit, he fucking sucks dick no matter what
Whittington: It's unfair he's on this list, as his move was desperation based. He's 1 red shirt year down due to injury and going to back to a position he is at naturally. Not a big deal.
BJ Foster: See Overshown above. He's had injury problems. But he seems to have a fit, but they haven't stopped moving him around either. Cause for concern.
Roschon: See Whittington. It's unfair he's on this list, and somewhat moot considering he's a RB long term now, and will never be a QB
 

Let me help you out further with a couple others I find concerning:

Jamison: They wasted a year on offense, literally. He's supposedly a corner now.
Cook: Corner, but now moving to nickel. I realize some cross training happens naturally in the secondary, but still, it's a move 2 years in and it's not a slam dunk Cook makes sense at Nickel. Now he's competing with Foster there too?

The above two also have injury issues that have muddied the waters as well, which seems to be a real problem in our secondary.

My gut says they move guys too much and/or don't do a great job selling a position to HS recruits out of HS, and then waste development time when they switch a year or two down the road. I think it's a concern. Some mitigating factors, but I think it's a problem. Hopefully the problem was the LAST set of coaches on staff. 

Regarding Jamison:

He played in all 13 games at corner last season and started 9 of those - and is the likely starter this season.  When Jamison came in as a freshman they knew they were going to use him as a returner, and that he wouldn't get any time playing defensive snaps, so they asked him about a move to WR a position where he could get playing time as a freshman.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

Regarding Jamison:

He played in all 13 games at corner last season and started 9 of those - and is the likely starter this season.  When Jamison came in as a freshman they knew they were going to use him as a returner, and that he wouldn't get any time playing defensive snaps, so they asked him about a move to WR a position where he could get playing time as a freshman.

 

 

Thanks bud. I'm quite aware of the history involved with Jamison. He also wasted that entire year of PRACTICE taking offensive snaps and on that side of the ball. That's an entire year's worth of practices doing WR shit that could have been applied to him doing defensive back drills in practice, going against our WRs and getting reps against college ready players. Etc. 

Sure, maybe he was going to burn that shirt. But he didn't have to spend an entire lost year playing out of his eventual and obvious position. And he did it all for what, 5 fucking offensive snaps the entire year, almost all of which were for losses or no gain? Yeah, I'd call that a big fucking waste of time and talent. 

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1 minute ago, SydneyCarton said:

Thanks bud. I'm quite aware of the history involved with Jamison. He also wasted that entire year of PRACTICE taking offensive snaps and on that side of the ball. That's an entire year's worth of practices doing WR shit that could have been applied to him doing defensive back drills in practice, going against our WRs and getting reps against college ready players. Etc. 

Sure, maybe he was going to burn that shirt. But he didn't have to spend an entire lost year playing out of his eventual and obvious position. And he did it all for what, 5 fucking offensive snaps the entire year, almost all of which were for losses or no gain? Yeah, I'd call that a big fucking waste of time and talent. 

It was an awful decision by what has proven to be a below average coaching staff. Let's see what the new guys can do, I think Jamison will shine in this new scheme.

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1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

Off the top of my head, we've moved folks around way too much and didn't stress some positions early. That being said, in fairness, there's also mitigating circumstances for most of those dudes:

 

Overshown: A kid has to be on board with a position change, and Overshown certainly wasn't early. He's definitely behind the 8 ball learning a position many had him pegged for out of HS. Of course, injuries also factored into this situation, as him taking to longer to realize maybe he was a LB.
Owens: I don't think it's fair he's on this list. I'd have been fine keeping him at safety, honestly, but oh well. This change was made early enough
Epps: Who gives a shit, he fucking sucks dick no matter what
Whittington: It's unfair he's on this list, as his move was desperation based. He's 1 red shirt year down due to injury and going to back to a position he is at naturally. Not a big deal.
BJ Foster: See Overshown above. He's had injury problems. But he seems to have a fit, but they haven't stopped moving him around either. Cause for concern.
Roschon: See Whittington. It's unfair he's on this list, and somewhat moot considering he's a RB long term now, and will never be a QB
 

Let me help you out further with a couple others I find concerning:

Jamison: They wasted a year on offense, literally. He's supposedly a corner now.
Cook: Corner, but now moving to nickel. I realize some cross training happens naturally in the secondary, but still, it's a move 2 years in and it's not a slam dunk Cook makes sense at Nickel. Now he's competing with Foster there too?

The above two also have injury issues that have muddied the waters as well, which seems to be a real problem in our secondary.

My gut says they move guys too much and/or don't do a great job selling a position to HS recruits out of HS, and then waste development time when they switch a year or two down the road. I think it's a concern. Some mitigating factors, but I think it's a problem. Hopefully the problem was the LAST set of coaches on staff. 

I forgive Jamison because we had 2 Sr CBs, and they realized his talent wasn't best served buried on the depth chart.. so they tried to give him some run at WR.  Did it really hurt Jamison?

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1 minute ago, Thiefery said:

I forgive Jamison because we had 2 Sr CBs, and they realized his talent wasn't best served buried on the depth chart.. so they tried to give him some run at WR.  Did it really hurt Jamison?

Would rather have 4 years of corner play like last year than him burn his freshman year on running random end arounds and playing special teams

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3 minutes ago, Thiefery said:

I forgive Jamison because we had 2 Sr CBs, and they realized his talent wasn't best served buried on the depth chart.. so they tried to give him some run at WR.  Did it really hurt Jamison?

We had two senior CBs, so we wasted a talented freshman’s practice reps at a position he sucked st on the field instead of at the spot where we had almost no experience in the wings after those seniors left? Yeah, I think you just helped make my case for me. 
 

pretty sure the idea is everyone should be better with an extra year learning the position and getting reps. We all like Jamison, but he was feast or famine last year and got burned a share. Yeah, is say we we hurt him and us the first half of the season. 

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I think Tyler Owens will fill out, and if he keeps his speed, can work himself into a first rounder at linebacker. At safety, he might have been a day two pick. He is gonna get as big as Evil Roy Williams, but be faster.

CHIEF

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2 minutes ago, Bob Lives! said:

Didn't Evil Roy Williams play safety? 

Yes, but at 242 lbs. He was too big at Dallas, lost his speed as he got older. Tyler could play either position, I just think he will be "special" at linebacker.

CHIEF

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1 hour ago, RGBIII said:

Would rather have 4 years of corner play like last year than him burn his freshman year on running random end arounds and playing special teams

Well his return made a huge difference in netting win #2 in Manhattan since the formation of the Big 12.

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1 hour ago, CHIEF said:

I think Tyler Owens will fill out, and if he keeps his speed, can work himself into a first rounder at linebacker. At safety, he might have been a day two pick. He is gonna get as big as Evil Roy Williams, but be faster.

CHIEF

If he's good at football, he appears to have the physical freakiness to slide into the Shaq Thompson, Derwin James, Isaiah Simmons sort of role that NFL teams currently have huge boners for. Just need to confirm the first part. I actually thought he looked pretty good against TCU despite giving up a big play or two. 

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30 minutes ago, TommyGufano said:

If he's good at football, he appears to have the physical freakiness to slide into the Shaq Thompson, Derwin James, Isaiah Simmons sort of role that NFL teams currently have huge boners for. Just need to confirm the first part. I actually thought he looked pretty good against TCU despite giving up a big play or two. 

Part of me wants to slight Owens for that game, but I have to remember that not only was he a true freshmen, it was his first game with meaningful PT on defense, and not even our upper classmen DBs knew what the fuck they were supposed to be doing in that defense either. He's got a lot of potential but potential never won a ring.

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1 hour ago, Bob Lives! said:

Didn't Evil Roy Williams play safety? 

Evil Roy was the epitome of "in the box safety."

He was always making plays at the line of scrimmage, blitzing the quarterback. The passes he would defend were more like a linebacker dropping back into a deep zone.

He was a safety in name only because they used him like a linebacker. A sideline to sideline linebacker.

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1 hour ago, TommyGufano said:

If he's good at football, he appears to have the physical freakiness to slide into the Shaq Thompson, Derwin James, Isaiah Simmons sort of role that NFL teams currently have huge boners for. Just need to confirm the first part. I actually thought he looked pretty good against TCU despite giving up a big play or two. 

Owens seemed out of place covering downfield passes last year. With his frame he seems better suited closer to the line...

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16 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

Owens seemed out of place covering downfield passes last year. With his frame he seems better suited closer to the line...

He was a freshman who didn't get much playing time.

Underclassmen DB's who play well are the exception, not the rule.

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Mike Roach: Three-star Longhorns who surpassed expectations in last decade

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Recruiting is an inexact science. Finding elite talent is the easiest part. Recruiting it is much harder, but finding and developing hidden gems is crucial for any program. The Texas program is often in the headlines for a failure to develop talent, but there's another side to that coin. Often times, the Longhorns have harvested the underrated talent from the high school ranks and they've seen some of those players go on to productive careers.

I looked back over the last ten years to find the examples of three-star prospects who exceeded expectations. Most of these players ranked in the bottom half of their class while several ended up as the lowest-ranked player in their class. Here are ten Texas three-star prospects who surpassed expectations at the college level.

QB Case McCoy (2010)

Ranking: No. 655 overall, No. 23 dual-threat QB, No. 106 in Texas

When Case McCoy first arrived, he didn’t have many expectations. Though it didn’t always look pretty, McCoy was present for some big moments during his college career. Two of the biggest moments of McCoy’s career came against two of the Longhorns’ biggest rivals. In his sophomore season, McCoy led Texas to a win during their final matchup with Texas A&M in the Big 12 era and his senior season featured a big upset over Oklahoma. McCoy finished his career with 3,689 yards and 24 touchdowns on 59.8% passing. Though he had some ups and downs during his career, his status in big moments earned him a spot on this list.

RB D'onta Foreman (2014)

Ranking: No. 1,060 overall, No. 64 RB, No. 135 in Texas

When Foreman arrived as a part of a packaged deal with his brother Armanti Foreman, he was thought of as an add-on. He changed that perception quickly showing flashes during his sophomore season running for 672 yards and 5 touchdowns. In his Junior season, Foreman had an incredible season with 2,028 yards on 323 carries and 15 touchdowns. His performance earned him a Doak Walker Award and the Earl Campbell Tyler Rose Award. Foreman was selected by the Houston Texans in the third round of the 2017 NFL Draft and moved on to the Indianapolis Colts after being placed on waivers. He missed the 2019 season with an injury.

S Jason Hall (2014)

Ranking: No. 930 overall, No. 75 safety, No. 120 in Texsa

Hall arrived during Charlie Strong’s transition class in 2014. Despite his low ranking, Hall appeared in 48 games with 32 starts. Hall was moved around to several different positions and was a mainstay in the Texas defense from 2014-2017. He finished his career with 152 tackles, 7 tackles for loss, 5 sacks and 3 interceptions. Hall wasn’t drafted but he did sign a free agent deal with the Seattle Seahawks. Hall wasn’t able to stay on in the NFL, but he made significant contributions to the program while on campus.

DT Chris Nelson (2014)

Ranking: No. 830 overall, No. 57 defensive tackle, No. 123 in Florida

Nelson came to Texas as a last minute addition to Charlie Strong’s transition class. In a five-year career with the Longhorns, Nelson played in 45 games with 29 career starts. He totaled 109 tackles, 15.5 tackles for loss and 3.5 sacks. Nelson was named honorable mention All-Big 12 following his senior season and played in the East-West Shrine Game. Nelson was not drafted but caught on with the Steelers as a free agent. He was cut following the conclusion of the rookie mini-camp.

TE Andrew Beck (2014)

Ranking: No. 521 overall, No. 24 inside linebacker, No. 76 in Florida

Beck actually committed to Mack Brown in the 2014 class before he left Texas and stayed on during the transition with Charlie Strong. In a five-year career, Beck played in 51 games with 30 starts. While he only collected 40 receptions for 440 yards and four touchdowns during his career, Beck was an important piece of the offense as a blocker and served as a captain during his time in Austin. Beck wasn’t drafted but signed with the New England Patriots as a free agent. The Patriots waived Beck during final roster cuts, and he was claimed by the Broncos. Beck scored his first NFL touchdown in a 16-15 win over the Raiders in December of 2019.

DE Breckyn Hager (2015)

Ranking: No. 1546 overall, No. 74 weak-side defensive end, No, 184 in Texas

Hager’s four-year career saw him play in 48 games with 22 career starts. Over the course of his time in Austin, Hager tallied 136 career tackles, 12.5 sacks, seven pass break ups, two forced fumbles, two fumble recoveries and nine hurries. Hager was named to the All-Big12 team in 2016 and honorable mention in 2017. Hager wasn’t drafted but signed with the New York Giants as a free agent.

S P.J. Locke (2015)

Ranking: No. 600 overall, No. 39 safety, No. 81 in Texas

Locke joined Texas after being offered on the eve on signing day, but he made a big impact during his time at Texas. Locke played in 47 career games with 31 career starts. Locke’s career concluded with 160 tackles, 11 tackles for loss, 1.5 sacks, 3 interceptions 12 pass break ups and 1 fumble recovery. Locke signed with the Steelers as an undrafted free agent but didn’t make the team. He was selected by the Tampa Bay Vipers in the XFL supplemental draft.
(Photo: Tim Warner, Getty)

C Zach Shackelford (2016)

Ranking: No. 1050 overall, No. 52 offensive guard, No. 131 in Texas

Shackelford came to Texas as one of the lowest-rated members of the 2016 class but he played in 43 games and started 40 of them. A team captain during his senior season, Shackelford’s presence was an anchor on the offensive line. Shackelford was named to the preseason All-Big 12 team in 2019 and named a second-team preseason All-American by Athlon Sports. Shackelford went undrafted in 2020, but he signed with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers as an undrafted free agent this spring.

DE Malcolm Roach (2016)

Ranking: No. 589 overall, No. 28 strong-side defensive end, No. 30 in Louisiana

Roach moved all over the field for Texas during his career. In 47 games with 23 starts, Roach bounced between linebacker and defensive end with some time at defensive tackle in certain packages. In a four-year career, Roach registered 130 tackles, 22.5 tackles for loss and 8 sacks. He was also named a team captain for his senior season. Roach was not drafted, but he was able to return to Louisiana as an undrafted free agent with the New Orleans Saints.

OL Samuel Cosmi (2017)

Ranking: No. 1123 overall, No. 104 offensive tackle, No. 155 in Texas

Cosmi was one of the lowest rated players in Tom Herman’s transition class and he’s developed into a stellar offensive tackle at Texas. A fourth year offensive lineman, Cosmi was named second-team All-Big 12 in 2019. Cosmi played in 27 games so far and started in 26. He was named a Freshman All-American by USA Today and has been tabbed as a candidate to leave early for the NFL Draft with a strong junior season.

 

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3 minutes ago, satyanash said:

Mike Roach: Three-star Longhorns who surpassed expectations in last decade

 

How the fuck is LJ Humphrey not on this list?

 

34 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

Owens seemed out of place covering downfield passes last year. With his frame he seems better suited closer to the line...

I'm not saying he was Derek Stingley Jr. in coverage or anything, but the way I remember it (it's quite possible I've changed things to TO's favor in the months since the game) he put himself in pretty good position to make the plays and just got beat by what must have been the only 2 well thrown balls a TCU qb delivered all year.

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Dang a great tight end would really help the Texas offense. Since some of you recruiting folks don't wander to the football board, I'm cross-posting this great info from @satyanash 

NFL 2019 stats for frequency of personnel groupings (below Tweet)

The entire NFL spent the better part of the 2019 season in 11 personnel. That’s five offensive linemen, one quarterback, one running back (first digit in 11), one tight end (second digit in 11), and three wide receivers. Texas fans will recognize that as the preferred personnel grouping for Tom Herman’s offense and many have started to develop an irrational distaste for it that mirrors the decades-old hatred for “bubble screens.”  A major aspect of pro-spread is an emphasis on 11 personnel. It also means an emphasis on pro-style schemes and the use of drop back passing where the quarterback goes through progressions behind an offensive line executing pass protections. 

 

For the complete write-up, here's post by Saty

 

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3 hours ago, TommyGufano said:

If he's good at football, he appears to have the physical freakiness to slide into the Shaq Thompson, Derwin James, Isaiah Simmons sort of role that NFL teams currently have huge boners for. Just need to confirm the first part. I actually thought he looked pretty good against TCU despite giving up a big play or two. 

Agree with this completely.  I said when Overshown signed that I hoped we'd get Darren Woodson come in and talk to him about how he was a LB in college and turned into one of the best NFL safeties ever.  Same for Owens.

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