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SPLC on the wane?


bernorange

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Some of you old timers might remember the thread on TOS that chronicled the MIAC fiasco and the SPLC's hand in directing the DHS to target Ron Paul supporters and conservative political groups.  It looks like their influence in the DHS might be on the wane:

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Attorney General Jeff Sessions criticized the left-wing Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) by name Wednesday as he spoke at the Religious Liberty Summit of the Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF), the successful Christian public interest law firm the SPLC designates a “hate group.”

The ADF earned its SPLC “Anti-LGBT Hate Group” designation after a string of Supreme Court victories that enraged the far left, most notably the successful defense of a Christian Colorado baker who refused to adorn a cake with phrases condoning homosexual marriage in this year’s Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission.

His address to the ADF summit included Sessions first public mention of the SPLC since Fox News’s Tucker Carlson revealed the group’s ongoing, but ill-defined, relationship with the FBI last month. Just days after that report, on July 30, the attorney general seemed to make oblique reference to the SPLC as he announced his new DOJ Religious Liberty Task Force. “We have gotten to the point where … one group can actively target religious groups by labeling them a “hate group” on the basis of their sincerely held religious beliefs,” Sessions said.

On Wednesday, Sessions was much more explicit, praising the SPLC for its past work to combat racism in the South while condemning it for abandoning that legacy to attack right-leaning groups with which it disagrees. In his prepared remarks, Sessions said:

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Yet people of faith are facing a new hostility. Really, a bigoted ideology which is founded on animus towards people of faith.

    You’ll notice that they don’t rely on the facts. They don’t make better arguments.  They don’t propose higher ideals.

    No, they just call people names—like “hate group.”

    Does that sound familiar?

    You know I’m from Alabama—the home of the Southern Poverty Law Center, an organization that did important work in the South, vital work at a pivotal time. As you know well, the law is only words on paper until there are people brave enough to stand up for their rights.

    There were hate groups in the South I grew up in. They attacked the life, liberty, and the very worth of minority citizens. You may not know this, but I helped prosecute and secure the death penalty for a klansman who murdered a black teenager in my state. The resulting wrongful death suit led to a $7 million verdict and the bankruptcy of the Klu Klux Klan in the South. That case was brought by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

    But when I spoke to ADF last year, I learned that the Southern Poverty Law Center had classified ADF as a “hate group.” Many in the media simply parroted it as fact. Amazon relied solely on the SPLC designation and removed ADF from its Smile program, which allows customers to donate to charities.

    They have used this designation as a weapon, and they have wielded it against conservative organizations that refuse to accept their orthodoxy and choose instead to speak their conscience. They use it to bully and intimidate groups like yours which fight for the religious freedom, the civil rights, and the constitutional rights of others.

    You and I may not agree on everything—but I wanted to come back here tonight partly because I wanted to say this: you are not a hate group (Emphasis added).

 

It had been known that the FBI used the SPLC as a listed resource on the “hate crimes” section of its website. Amid growing criticism of the SPLC’s methods and tactics, however, the FBI stepped back from this public connection with the controversial left-wing group in 2014, removing links from its site. The Defense Department quickly followed the DOJ’s lead, ending the use of SPLC content in its “training materials on hate groups or hate crimes.”

But at the time the FBI removed public links, the SPLC itself insisted it still maintained relations with the nation’s premier federal law enforcement agency. “We have frequent contact with FBI agents on a whole range of issues and we’ve trained them in the past,” the director of SPLC’s “Intelligence Project,” Heidi Beirich, told Breitbart News at the time.

The Tucker Carlson Tonight report confirmed this last month, with an FBI representative telling the program, the Bureau “continues to have a relationship with the SPLC.” The report revealed, for the first time, that a 2009 FBI internal memo referred to the SPLC as a “well-known, established and credible” group that had, as Beirich suggested in 2014, briefed FBI field agents on what constitutes “domestic terror threats.” In light of the report, Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-FL) wrote a letter to the FBI asking for clarification.

Sessions’ spokeswoman, Sarah Flores, quickly suggested a change may be afoot. “The attorney general has directed the FBI to re-evaluate their relationships with groups like this to ensure the FBI does not partner with any group that discriminates,” she said in a statement to Carlson’s show.

Sessions’ statements at the ADF summit is the strongest indication yet that an official policy against legitimizing the SPLC with a relationship with the FBI or other DOJ element may be in the offing. ...

More:  https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/08/09/sessions-calls-out-splc-conservative-leaders-optimistic-fbi-cut-ties/

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Oh my god no way.

This definitely needed it's own thread.

I am utterly shocked Jeff Sessions would be delegitimizing the SPLC because it disagrees with his white nationalist hate group bullshit.

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@Js1 - Sometimes bad men do good things.  Sessions is a turd.  I agree with you on that.  But the SPLC has also been abusing it's influence for several years now and a critical reassessment of their influence in the DHS is well past time.

Edited by bernorange
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I used to be a fan of the SPLC back when it was a more focused ACLU.  But it seems to have gone significantly off the rails in the last couple of decades.

 

To the extent that puts me in league with Sessions, well that's gross.  But like bernorange said  . . .

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The "articles" that the Alliance Defending Freedom puts out are dishonest and misleading. They're clickbait presumably designed to bring in donations. They rile up the reader by removing all context and distorting the truth. They are definitely part of our cultural rot.

That said, labeling them a hate group is a huge stretch to the point that hate group loses all meaning.

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The Alliance Defending Freedom is the group that helped a woman kidnap her kid from her ex-wife and then helped her leave the country, then concealed the location where she had absconded to even when the authorities came looking for the kidnapped child. They did this because the woman who kidnapped the child renounced her gayness, and they wanted her to have the kid even though the judge acknowledged custody rights to the still gay ex-wife.  They may not be a hate group, but they spend an awful lot of time doing hateful things to gay people.

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On 8/11/2018 at 12:45 AM, NameAlreadyInUse said:

The Alliance Defending Freedom is the group that helped a woman kidnap her kid from her ex-wife and then helped her leave the country, then concealed the location where she had absconded to even when the authorities came looking for the kidnapped child. They did this because the woman who kidnapped the child renounced her gayness, and they wanted her to have the kid even though the judge acknowledged custody rights to the still gay ex-wife.  They may not be a hate group, but they spend an awful lot of time doing hateful things to gay people. 

So, they don't hate the gays, they just want the gays and everything about them to go away.

Survey says:  NOT HATE!

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I am as far left as anyone on this site. A friend of mine used to be the lead writer for their magazine -- he would infiltrate hate groups and report back. About ten years ago, they were still doing great work and keeping it pertinent.  But yes, the SPLC is slipping. They have been taken over by sheltered PC children who see racism around every corner, and since the fear of racism and hate groups is what swells the SPLC's coffers, they have allowed these kids to run unchecked. 

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19 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I am as far left as anyone on this site. A friend of mine used to be the lead writer for their magazine -- he would infiltrate hate groups and report back. About ten years ago, they were still doing great work and keeping it pertinent.  But yes, the SPLC is slipping. They have been taken over by sheltered PC children who see racism around every corner, and since the fear of racism and hate groups is what swells the SPLC's coffers, they have allowed these kids to run unchecked. 

The sad part is that it's 2018 and racism is still around every corner in the United States. 

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19 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The sad part is that it's 2018 and racism is still around every corner in the United States. 

I don't think it's as bad as it seems. It's come to the fore with the asshole in chief, but I truly believe this is a fluke. Meanwhile the SPLC is branding people like Sam Harris -- who I kinda can't stand, but is no racist -- as being as bad as Klansmen and neo-Nazis. 

With the kids rising to the fore of today's media, there is no room for nuance. They are ever-vigilant to brand people as racists and toss them in the trash, and the SPLC has fallen prey to these American culture warriors. I really fear that we are going through a lite version of China's Cultural Revolution, with our youth believing that everything that came before them is terrible and worthy of destruction. 

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31 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I am as far left as anyone on this site. A friend of mine used to be the lead writer for their magazine -- he would infiltrate hate groups and report back. About ten years ago, they were still doing great work and keeping it pertinent.  But yes, the SPLC is slipping. They have been taken over by sheltered PC children who see racism around every corner, and since the fear of racism and hate groups is what swells the SPLC's coffers, they have allowed these kids to run unchecked. 

This is where I am.  They lost me when that article popped up in my feed about renaming Austin.  Come the fuck on man. 

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22 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I don't think it's as bad as it seems. It's come to the fore with the asshole in chief, but I truly believe this is a fluke. Meanwhile the SPLC is branding people like Sam Harris -- who I kinda can't stand, but is no racist -- as being as bad as Klansmen and neo-Nazis. 

With the kids rising to the fore of today's media, there is no room for nuance. They are ever-vigilant to brand people as racists and toss them in the trash, and the SPLC has fallen prey to these American culture warriors. I really fear that we are going through a lite version of China's Cultural Revolution, with our youth believing that everything that came before them is terrible and worthy of destruction. 

As long as the prison population is as disproportionately black and brown as the general population and as long as leading economic indicators show a frustratingly wide gap between whites and non-whites, it's pretty bad.

In my opinion.

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22 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

This is where I am.  They lost me when that article popped up in my feed about renaming Austin.  Come the fuck on man. 

I am Gen X and work in the media with a bunch of twenty and thirtysomethings and they are just insufferable about racism: overeducated and underexperienced. By which I mean, most of them live in white hipster ghettos in white hipster towns and went to white hipster schools and white hipster colleges and have about zero black friends, unless it was that African kid who was adopted into a white family. They are the people who drive up rents in black and brown communities, and then demand that the streets be renamed to something more PC just as the last black and brown people are forced out of the 'hood. 

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23 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

As long as the prison population is as disproportionately black and brown as the general population and as long as leading economic indicators show a frustratingly wide gap between whites and non-whites, it's pretty bad.

In my opinion.

I absolutely agree, but playing "Racist Gotcha!" seems to be more what some of these twentysomethings in the media are about. 

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19 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I absolutely agree, but playing "Racist Gotcha!" seems to be more what some of these twentysomethings in the media are about. 

I see your point. I also think a lot of it is highly educated minorities looking around and being extremely pissed off that they still have to put up with the same old bullshit that has been going on in this country for centuries. The everyday petty racism that occurs in this country has to be frustrating. See: white people calling the cops on black people for every little thing.

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1 hour ago, Mole said:

I hadn't heard about that one and google isn't coming up with answers from that description. Is there a link?

Sorry I got it wrong.  Too many of these groups and I get confused periodically.  It was actually the Liberty Counsel and the Liberty University Law School that was involved in this one.  

http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/04/23/32045

Apologies for the mixup.  ADF does a lot of representing of people who try really hard to deny the rights of gays, but they weren't involved in the conspiracy in this case. 

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22 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I see your point. I also think a lot of it is highly educated minorities looking around and being extremely pissed off that they still have to put up with the same old bullshit that has been going on in this country for centuries. The everyday petty racism that occurs in this country has to be frustrating. See: white people calling the cops on black people for every little thing.

No, I am glad to see that, and am happy to foster reporting against that that wherever it is. What I am seeing is white kids going overboard on the "woke" front. 

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19 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

No, I am glad to see that, and am happy to foster reporting against that that wherever it is. What I am seeing is white kids going overboard on the "woke" front. 

Remember how passionate, and also inexperienced and lacking wisdom of the ways of the world, you were when you were 25?

Yeah.  Same story, different generation.  Passion that will need some tempering with wisdom and experience.

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18 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Remember how passionate, and also inexperienced and lacking wisdom of the ways of the world, you were when you were 25?

Yeah.  Same story, different generation.  Passion that will need some tempering with wisdom and experience.

Yep, but the problem is, they are given positions of authority right out of college now, thanks to the diminished status of the media. Most of my bosses are now 25 -- somehow I fell between the cracks, and here I am, taking orders from people with fancy degrees, no experience, and zero skins on the wall. I am far from alone in this industry. 

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18 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Yep, but the problem is, they are given positions of authority right out of college now, thanks to the diminished status of the media. Most of my bosses are now 25 -- somehow I fell between the cracks, and here I am, taking orders from people with fancy degrees, no experience, and zero skins on the wall. I am far from alone in this industry. 

Fair observation.

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20 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Yep, but the problem is, they are given positions of authority right out of college now, thanks to the diminished status of the media. Most of my bosses are now 25 -- somehow I fell between the cracks, and here I am, taking orders from people with fancy degrees, no experience, and zero skins on the wall. I am far from alone in this industry. 

It could be worse. They could be in charge of fixing your brakes.

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27 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Remember how passionate, and also inexperienced and lacking wisdom of the ways of the world, you were when you were 25?

Man, I wish. At 19 I was working in a ghetto convenience store next to the Food Stamp Office on Jeff Davis Avenue in Selma Alabama. That is not an Onion Article, that happened.

Mama sends the child in with the food stamp, buy candy, get 97 cents change. Three children get candy, then Mama gets beer with change. Winos reeking death, mobs of teen shoplifters, great big Dude in Red Dress (freaked me out first time, then I noticed he scared the hell out of the shoplifters so I'd try to get him to hang out longer), various little scrappers wanting to fight, one dude I made the mistake of buying a Buffalo Nickel from once so he started trucking in all sorts of things to fence, selling Bugler rolling paper to pissed-off stoners when we were out of Zig-Zag, and Loose Kools to minors. Shooting craps with my buddies behind the counter and playing blues guitar with this dude who wandered up from the neighborhood.

Actually, hell no. I wouldn't give up any of that to be some little woke hipster fuck, especially if I had to always tell MaybeACoordinator to quit playing on Surly and finish the article.

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43 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Yep, but the problem is, they are given positions of authority right out of college now, thanks to the diminished status of the media. Most of my bosses are now 25 -- somehow I fell between the cracks, and here I am, taking orders from people with fancy degrees, no experience, and zero skins on the wall. I am far from alone in this industry. 

Wait. I was told millennials can't get jobs because of the depredations of GenX and others. 

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42 minutes ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

Sorry I got it wrong.  Too many of these groups and I get confused periodically.  It was actually the Liberty Counsel and the Liberty University Law School that was involved in this one.  

http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2011/04/23/32045

Apologies for the mixup.  ADF does a lot of representing of people who try really hard to deny the rights of gays, but they weren't involved in the conspiracy in this case. 

What a messy, strange, and terrible situation. And it's still apparently unresolved 8 years later. Digging around, there's also a very tangential connection to Roy Moore. Wheel within a wheel.

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20 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

It could be worse. They could be in charge of fixing your brakes.

 

37 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

Man, I wish. At 19 I was working in a ghetto convenience store next to the Food Stamp Office on Jeff Davis Avenue in Selma Alabama. That is not an Onion Article, that happened.

Mama sends the child in with the food stamp, buy candy, get 97 cents change. Three children get candy, then Mama gets beer with change. Winos reeking death, mobs of teen shoplifters, great big Dude in Red Dress (freaked me out first time, then I noticed he scared the hell out of the shoplifters so I'd try to get him to hang out longer), various little scrappers wanting to fight, one dude I made the mistake of buying a Buffalo Nickel from once so he started trucking in all sorts of things to fence, selling Bugler rolling paper to pissed-off stoners when we were out of Zig-Zag, and Loose Kools to minors. Shooting craps with my buddies behind the counter and playing blues guitar with this dude who wandered up from the neighborhood.

Actually, hell no. I wouldn't give up any of that to be some little woke hipster fuck, especially if I had to always tell MaybeACoordinator to quit playing on Surly and finish the article.

Had to eat a frozen vindaloo with a bonus shot of sriracha. MaC is BaCK, baby 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm not at my computer, so I'm not posting a quote/snippet, but the SPLC is still at it.

https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2018/08/23/david-horowitz-visa-mastercard-cut-off-payments-to-my-think-tank-based-on-splc-hate-group-label/

I don't care much for Horowitz, but this is wrong and another portend of things to come with the cashless society.

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I'm not at my computer, so I'm not posting a quote/snippet, but the SPLC is still at it.
https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2018/08/23/david-horowitz-visa-mastercard-cut-off-payments-to-my-think-tank-based-on-splc-hate-group-label/
I don't care much for Horowitz, but this is wrong and another portend of things to come with the cashless society.
lulz, Breitbart

You might not want to throw around that "derangement syndrome" label at Hugo. Interesting that Visa has already completely denied the story.
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Ah, it wasn't there when I read the page last night.  So VISA claims, "we didn't know you were blocked, but if you were, it totally wasn't for the reasons reported."  Maybe, maybe not.  Horowitz could be lying or making shit up.  He's a grade A asshole, so that is possible.  But it's also possible that he has connections in DC and is giving a good faith account of what's happening with the SPLC, Sen. Warner and corporate institutions (VISA, Mastercard in this case, social media platforms and Mastercard in the case of his anti-Muslim propaganda outlet).

Edited by bernorange
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While it tickles me that you are now on board with "We don't serve your kind" liberty and strong adherence to property rights for private parties (even if they are public companies), if corporate policy is being directed by political pressure (from actual politicians), then yes, that's pretty much textbook fascism.

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you are predicating this on david horowitz's account and conveyed by breitbart.  putting aside the disappointment that you would ever scurry over here to post a breitbart link, you're heavy on conjecture here and an accusation of fascism levied at visa who has denied the account and mastercard with nothing but the wild speculation of less than reputable character who thrives on imaginary victimhood.

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13 minutes ago, bernorange said:

While it tickles me that you are now on board with "We don't serve your kind" liberty and strong adherence to property rights for private parties (even if they are public companies), if corporate policy is being directed by political pressure (from actual politicians), then yes, that's pretty much textbook fascism.

What politicians are putting on the political pressure to make sure that Visa and Mastercard don't do business with these groups?

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On 8/13/2018 at 11:17 AM, MaybeACoordinator said:

Yep, but the problem is, they are given positions of authority right out of college now, thanks to the diminished status of the media. Most of my bosses are now 25 -- somehow I fell between the cracks, and here I am, taking orders from people with fancy degrees, no experience, and zero skins on the wall. I am far from alone in this industry. 

For the "most far left person on the board" you sure seem happy to spout all the same cliches as my most die hard Trumpkin relatives in West Texas.

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4 hours ago, sidis said:

you are predicating this on david horowitz's account ...

Yes, and I acknowledge that it could be bullshit.  But Horowitz said this:

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... The reason Mastercard and Visa gave us for cutting us off and thus sabotaging our online fund-raising operation is that the SPLC told them that we were a hate group.  ...

If he has documented proof from the companies (letter, email, recorded conversation), hopefully it will be released/published to verify the claim.

4 hours ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

What politicians are putting on the political pressure to make sure that Visa and Mastercard don't do business with these groups?

Horowitz claimed:

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... They have been threatened by Senator Mark Warner and other Democrats ...

 

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So there is a follow up report published Saturday with more details:

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The David Horowitz Freedom Center has had its ability to accept credit card donations restored after the initial decision to financially blacklist the organization was made by payment processor Worldpay allegedly at the request of Mastercard. ...
...
Breitbart News’ investigation into the story uncovered communications allegedly between Mastercard and Worldpay which indicated the David Horowitz Freedom Center “may be advocating for violence.” It also referenced the website bloodmoney.org, which is published by far-left pressure group Color of Change. Breitbart News has reached out to Mastercard for comment on this story and about the credit card giant’s relationship with the SPLC and Color of Change.

While the Freedom Center was preparing for a legal battle with Mastercard and Worldpay, following coverage by Breitbart News, the Drudge Report, and other conservative outlets, WorldPay restored the Freedom Center’s ability to accept donations.

A Worldpay spokesperson told Breitbart News in a statement:

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    Recently, we became aware of some merchants that had processing services inadvertently disabled without the proper internal reviews. Which was the case in this situation. These merchants have had or are in the process of having their services re-enabled.

After the publication of this story, Mastercard responded to Breitbart News with the following statement:

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    We understand that the acquirer — the merchant’s bank — has reinstated acceptance. As part of our normal process, the acquirer reviews each case to determine what action to take.

...
It was initially reported that Visa had blocked the Freedom Center’s ability to receive payments as well, but it appears that Worldpay’s decision at the behest of Mastercard to shut off payment processing access to the Freedom Center may have resulted in Visa cards being denied as well, without Visa specifically requesting this action. ...
...
David Horowitz reached out to Breitbart News with an exclusive statement on the events of the past week, which can be read in full below:

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    Here is what happened.  Last Tuesday the Freedom Center was informed by WorldPay, which handles its online donations, that Mastercard would no longer complete  transactions for the Freedom Center because it had been labeled a “hate group” by the Southern Poverty Law Center and a similarly leftist organization  called ColorofChange.org. This is what we were told by MasterCard: “The organization Color of Change has published an updated website named bloodmoney.org and within it has listed a number of merchants that purport to accept Mastercard and have content which is hateful in nature. .. [and] which may be advocating for violence. We have identified the sites below as belonging to your institution…”
...

...

https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2018/08/25/david-horowitz-wins-credit-card-donation-showdown-credits-breitbart-drudge/

So the actual text of the statements from Worldpay were not published, but assuming that Horowitz is providing an accurate description of the communication, the original story got some facts wrong, but the gist was true.

1. SPLC & Color of Change pressured MasterCard to cancel processing/account for Freedom Center.

2. MasterCard told WorldPay it wouldn't process transactions for Freedom Center.

3. WorldPay canceled Freedom Center account (which also canceled ability to process VISA transactions).

4. There is documentation to these claims and the issue was going to end up in court where, presumably, the evidence would have been presented.

Less clear are Horowitz's claims about Sen. Mark Warner.  Not sure what, if any, role he might have played in the issue.  But what stood out to me when I read the initial report remains true.  The SPLC (and it's piggybackers) abuse their influence (falsely targeting some groups for political reasons).  Separately, it's a portend of things to come when the age of digital banking chokes out the last vestiges of the cash economy and monopoly control over transactions can be weaponized for political purposes.

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