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Dallas officer kills man after mistaking apartment for her own, police say


'stache

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It is murder if you do it intentionally or knowingly. 
 

But it may be justified under Ch 9 of the Penal Code. Not likely but possible. 
 

Use of force, or deadly force, does not require you to be right, just reasonable. 

Edited by 4th and 5
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1 hour ago, 4th and 5 said:

It is murder if you do it intentionally or knowingly. 
 

But it may be justified under Ch 9 of the Penal Code. Not likely but possible. 
 

Use of force, or deadly force, does not require you to be right, just reasonable. 

Doesn’t the jury make the decision on if your action is reasonable?

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On 8/8/2020 at 6:13 PM, Sawbonz said:

Doesn’t the jury make the decision on if your action is reasonable?

 

2 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

That's my question. Their appeal sounds like it's arguing to a jury. 

The appeal is one of the biggest longshots in the law.  It is based on "sufficiency of the evidence," meaning that the jury could not have properly reached a guilty verdict on the evidence.

I skimmed the brief, but it also seems to contend that the jury was not instructed correctly on the mistake of fact/self defense issue, but it really soft pedals this issue.

The usual appeal is based on an error of law committed by the trial judge.  This one is based on an error by the jury.  So they have to argue the evidence and what it properly means in the context of the law of homicide, mistake of fact, and self-defense.  So this brief is very fact-intensive, unlike the usual brief.

But the basic argument is the defense limned out much earlier in this thread, which is:  she was reasonably mistaken as to whether she was in her own apartment; that mistake permitted her to act in self defense; the self-defense provisions justify the death.  The way it shook out at trial, I don't think the jury would have bought that defense and its hard to put forward in a trial context.  So they're giving it a go in the appeals court.

There's a fallback position that even if the mistake of fact/self defense doesn't work, the jury should have been instructed on criminally negligent homicide and she should have been convicted of that.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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2 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Am I wrong to think that if you kill someone on purpose and claim self defense, that the burden should shift to you to make your case?

Yes. There are very few affirmative defenses in Texas. Insanity, duress and mistake of law come to mind. 
 

I think judging Texas law, which in many cases mirrors that of the other 49 states, based on the facts of an amazingly extraordinary set of facts is foolhardy. 

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

 

The appeal is one of the biggest longshots in the law.  It is based on "sufficiency of the evidence," meaning that the jury could not have properly reached a guilty verdict on the evidence.

I skimmed the brief, but it also seems to contend that the jury was not instructed correctly on the mistake of fact/self defense issue, but it really soft pedals this issue.

The usual appeal is based on an error of law committed by the trial judge.  This one is based on an error by the jury.  So they have to argue the evidence and what it properly means in the context of the law of homicide, mistake of fact, and self-defense.  So this brief is very fact-intensive, unlike the usual brief.

But the basic argument is the defense limned out much earlier in this thread, which is:  she was reasonably mistaken as to whether she was in her own apartment; that mistake permitted her to act in self defense; the self-defense provisions justify the death.  The way it shook out at trial, I don't think the jury would have bought that defense and its hard to put forward in a trial context.  So they're giving it a go in the appeals court.

There's a fallback position that even if the mistake of fact/self defense doesn't work, the jury should have been instructed on criminally negligent homicide and she should have been convicted of that.

That’s a loser on appeal. 
 

Mistake of fact does not negate the culpability required for the defense as required by law. The mistake of fact in this case does not negate “intentionally or knowingly cause the death of an individual” but rather it is encompassed within the law of self defense, I.e., was it a reasonable belief, not necessarily a correct one. 
 

i’m sure this is difficult for a lay person to understand. But imagine in the case of a theft. That means the actor appropriated property with the intent to permanently deprive the owner of the property. Imagine a theft by check case. You wrote a check with the assumption that your wife hadn’t spent all of your money. There was an appropriation of property but it wasn’t done with the intent to permanently deprive the owner of the property. The mistake of fact, to wit: the amount of money in the account, negates the culpability required in the theft statute. 


in the Guyger case her mistake of fact (sorry, wrong apartment) does not negate the culpable mental state for murder. 

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12 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly and it was only discussed in the thread rather than in court, but I really thought her defense team already argued this same shit at trial. 

They did.  And it was a jury question, answered by the jury.  So overcoming the hurdle of the jury's verdict is a bitch.  Twice's stuff above is on target.  This is a longshot appeal.

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17 hours ago, 4th and 5 said:

Yes. There are very few affirmative defenses in Texas. Insanity, duress and mistake of law come to mind. 
 

I think judging Texas law, which in many cases mirrors that of the other 49 states, based on the facts of an amazingly extraordinary set of facts is foolhardy. 

That’s a loser on appeal. 
 

Mistake of fact does not negate the culpability required for the defense as required by law. The mistake of fact in this case does not negate “intentionally or knowingly cause the death of an individual” but rather it is encompassed within the law of self defense, I.e., was it a reasonable belief, not necessarily a correct one. 
 

i’m sure this is difficult for a lay person to understand. But imagine in the case of a theft. That means the actor appropriated property with the intent to permanently deprive the owner of the property. Imagine a theft by check case. You wrote a check with the assumption that your wife hadn’t spent all of your money. There was an appropriation of property but it wasn’t done with the intent to permanently deprive the owner of the property. The mistake of fact, to wit: the amount of money in the account, negates the culpability required in the theft statute. 


in the Guyger case her mistake of fact (sorry, wrong apartment) does not negate the culpable mental state for murder. 

It's been a long time since I took criminal law and I know most statutes differ today, but wasn't self defense originally an affirmative defense?

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I'm not clear on this:

The appeal has to argue that the jury was unreasonable in their judgement of Mistake - not whether Mistake was reasonable.  (i.e. jury instructions were tainted in a way that prevented this or that jurors ignored the standard given.)

Correct or no?

Edited by JBJ
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4 hours ago, JBJ said:

I'm not clear on this:

The appeal has to argue that the jury was unreasonable in their judgement of Mistake - not whether Mistake was reasonable.  (i.e. jury instructions were tainted in a way that prevented this or that jurors ignored the standard given.)

Correct or no?

Well not "unreasonable," but against the great weight and sufficiency of the evidence.

They don't say the jury was instructed incorrectly, but they offer an "optimal" jury instruction.

They're basically saying that in view of the evidence, the only correct verdict on murder was not guilty.

They concede that the evidence would support guilty on criminally negligent homicide on a tortured reading of the state of mind (that she recklessly created the situation where she intentionally fired on Jean), but the jury was not instructed on that "lesser included offense," only manslaughter.

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On 8/14/2020 at 8:16 PM, 4th and 5 said:

That brief is a loser. Factual sufficiency is a loser. Charge error is a loser. That's not the way mistake of fact works. Her mistake(s) of fact are embodied in the defense of self defense (or defense of property).

I've already explained how mistake of fact works above.

Self defense law contemplates that a person may not be right about the facts, they just have to be reasonable in their belief.

Example:

Husband comes home from trip two days early to surprise his wife, plane is late, gets home late, he enters home, she freaks out not expecting him and she blows him away. Mistaken but reasonable belief. Good shoot.

It works the same way for defense of others. Two knuckleheads are staging a fake aggravated robbery to post on Youtube. CHL holder approaches and blows robber away. Mistaken but reasonable belief. Good shoot.

I hear a noise in my garage at 200am, I enter the garage and shoot a shadowy figure. It is my neighbor who just wanted to borrow a screwdriver. Mistaken but reasonable belief. Good shoot.

Actually I came about 2 pounds of trigger pull from killing my neighbor once, he got so fucked up he almost got his ticket punched. I posted the story on TOS.

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2 hours ago, 4th and 5 said:

That brief is a loser. Factual sufficiency is a loser. Charge error is a loser. That's not the way mistake of fact works. Her mistake(s) of fact are embodied in the defense of self defense (or defense of property).

I've already explained how mistake of fact works above.

Self defense law contemplates that a person may not be right about the facts, they just have to be reasonable in their belief.

Example:

Husband comes home from trip two days early to surprise his wife, plane is late, gets home late, he enters home, she freaks out not expecting him and she blows him away. Mistaken but reasonable belief. Good shoot.

It works the same way for defense of others. Two knuckleheads are staging a fake aggravated robbery to post on Youtube. CHL holder approaches and blows robber away. Mistaken but reasonable belief. Good shoot.

I hear a noise in my garage at 200am, I enter the garage and shoot a shadowy figure. It is my neighbor who just wanted to borrow a screwdriver. Mistaken but reasonable belief. Good shoot.

Actually I came about 2 pounds of trigger pull from killing my neighbor once, he got so fucked up he almost got his ticket punched. I posted the story on TOS.

 

 

I think all three of those scenarios have been plots of made for tv movies. If i recall correctly, the surprise twist a the end after shooter is found not guilty in each scenario is:

a) wife knew husband was coming home early, deliberately killed him, collects insurance money, moves to Monaco with cop/prosecuter/whomever.

b) Shooter and knuckle head who was playing the victim are in on it together. Both hated the fake robber because he is the only one who can beat them at an upcoming fortnite championship.

c) Turns out, victim's wife hid her husband's favorite router in neighbor's garage, took a picture, and showed picture to drunk, angry husband, then taunted him that he wasn't man enough to go get it back. Also, wife knows neighbor is a gun nut, who always prefers to soften up a room before turning on the lights.

 

 

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Isn't the neighbor scenario not mistake of fact but castle doctrine? Who cares if their friends, if he didn't call and ask if he could enter the garage to borrow the screwdriver, he's a trespasser. I guess if they had a standing agreement that they could enter each others' garages to borrow stuff it might be necessary, but then it would seem to weigh against a mistake of fact if you didn't consider that it was the neighbor who you gave advanced permission to enter at will. Reminds me of my thought on this case that she didn't even for a second think that maybe perhaps she was on the wrong floor even though they presented evidence that it happens quite often since they look the same.

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2 hours ago, 'stache said:

Isn't the neighbor scenario not mistake of fact but castle doctrine? Who cares if their friends, if he didn't call and ask if he could enter the garage to borrow the screwdriver, he's a trespasser. I guess if they had a standing agreement that they could enter each others' garages to borrow stuff it might be necessary, but then it would seem to weigh against a mistake of fact if you didn't consider that it was the neighbor who you gave advanced permission to enter at will. Reminds me of my thought on this case that she didn't even for a second think that maybe perhaps she was on the wrong floor even though they presented evidence that it happens quite often since they look the same.

neighbor scenario is self defense, of which castle doctrine is a part that may or may not apply 

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  • 8 months later...
26 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Thought I had seen that the arguments had already occurred.  Probably have an opinion in a month or so.  Maybe two.

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  • 3 months later...

Conviction affirmed.  https://search.txcourts.gov/SearchMedia.aspx?MediaVersionID=2609f9f9-f341-45d7-a9b3-450d5a3c2eaf&coa=coa05&DT=Opinion&MediaID=f8b5a622-b5c6-4e75-be18-e18c6293f915

Despite the kind of muddle of an appellant's brief, the Dallas Court of Appeals took up the mistake of fact argument.  That is, the possibly legitimate fact that she believed herself to be in her own apartment (the mistake of fact) gave her the justification (self defense) to shoot Jean.

As I think 4th and Five pointed out, the problem here is that the mistake of fact defense must negate the criminal state of mind of the defendant, here the intention to kill or to do serious bodily injury (from the murder statute).  The mistake of fact in this case does not do that.

The court analyzed separately the possible defense of justification/self defense.  There, the court held that "mistake of fact" played no role:  that under self defense, the jury properly analyzed the reasonableness of her use of deadly force.

All of this is about at pp. 12-16.

Good, clear reasoning.  Solid opinion.

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On 8/7/2021 at 8:17 AM, TwiceHorn said:

Conviction affirmed.  https://search.txcourts.gov/SearchMedia.aspx?MediaVersionID=2609f9f9-f341-45d7-a9b3-450d5a3c2eaf&coa=coa05&DT=Opinion&MediaID=f8b5a622-b5c6-4e75-be18-e18c6293f915

Despite the kind of muddle of an appellant's brief, the Dallas Court of Appeals took up the mistake of fact argument.  That is, the possibly legitimate fact that she believed herself to be in her own apartment (the mistake of fact) gave her the justification (self defense) to shoot Jean.

As I think 4th and Five pointed out, the problem here is that the mistake of fact defense must negate the criminal state of mind of the defendant, here the intention to kill or to do serious bodily injury (from the murder statute).  The mistake of fact in this case does not do that.

The court analyzed separately the possible defense of justification/self defense.  There, the court held that "mistake of fact" played no role:  that under self defense, the jury properly analyzed the reasonableness of her use of deadly force.

All of this is about at pp. 12-16.

Good, clear reasoning.  Solid opinion.

Yes, the mistake of fact defense applies when the defendant’s mistaken belief, if accepted as true, negates the culpable mental state for the crime charged.

For instance, in a theft case the culpable mental state is intent to permanently deprive the owner of the property. If you took an umbrella, thinking it was your umbrella, but it in fact was not, the mistake of fact (ownership of umbrella) negates the required intent (permanently deprive the owner of the property).

The confusion (and really the blur between the two defenses) comes from the fact that one can be mistaken about facts, and use force, or deadly force, and be justified under Ch. 9 of the Penal Code. Use of force, or deadly force, does not require one to be right, just reasonable. There was clearly a mistake of fact in this case. Not one that negates the culpable mental state of the crime charged, but one that is relevant to use of force or deadly force to protect self or property. Was her belief, although mistaken, still reasonable? The jury answered that question.

Her attorneys did a bad job. This case should have been a not guilty.

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If it was a mistake of fact, it was not reasonable. Know you're own goddamned apartment. The testimony that the floors look similar actually hurt her case, in my opinion, regarding reasonableness. There was evidence showing it was a different door (the floor mat, the door being slightly ajar or unlocked, something like that), these readily observable things would make a reasonable person question if they are on the right floor, including the knowledge that the floors look alike and that it makes total sense that you might just be on the wrong floor. What is totally unreasonable in that situation to just start blasting some dude in his own apartment. I don't care how tired, drunk, high, whatever you are, know you're own goddamned apartment, or at a bare minimum, don't take a person's life after several clues that maybe you're at the wrong door. There is only one way a jury could rule in her favor, and thankfully they did not concede to that horrible impulse.

Edited by 'stache
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I don't know if I remember correctly, but I think the biggest thing that hurt her case (imo) was that she was on alert because she noticed the door was ajar, so that kind of took the reasonableness of the missed details of the door out of the equation.  It probably would have been better for her had she just sheepishly walked into the apartment and then was surprised.  

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