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I'm coming around to strongly supporting the Electoral Collegelec


tantric superman

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13 minutes ago, elfenix said:

That's right, "States" are an Other with their own political will separate from the people living in them. The great enlightenment thinkers certainly thought so.

Our judicial system is based largely on the very concept laid out in your sarcasm.  

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7 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

Apportionment needs to be adjusted.  The big states don't have enough representatives. Go to 1 rep per 100,000 people to start with

Right now the average is 752k.
To get to 100k, which I support, we would go from 435 House reps in DC to 3272.

7x the offices. 7x the parking spaces. 7x the staff members. 7x the meetings. 7x more people in committee hearings. Etc...

The practical impacts of that kind of change are significant and will weigh on the minds of DC rats. I think a potential solution would be to make a section of the house "virtual". Additional reps could live in the home district and essentially teleconference and televote. That way, there's no need to hand-wring about adding more House reps as the population (hopefully) grows.

It would also be good for the Congresspeople to actually be around their constituents.

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2 hours ago, Horn Dog said:

Gerrymandering is certainly about the minority political philosophy obtaining and maintaining a disproportionate political voice.  In our time that  correlates closely with rural voters maintaining a disproportionate representation over urban voters.  The point is that in an effort to make sure rural voters are not run over by urban voters, our system gives rural voters disproportionate representation in ALL 3 branches of government.  Getting rid of the EC would give urban voters ONE branch of government with PROPORTIONAL representation while maintaining rural DISPROPORTIONATE representation in the House and Senate.  The Supreme Court would then have equal influence by both rural and urban voters:

I understand your thesis.

Gerrymandering has nothing to do with it.

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3 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The EC also kinda safeguards against ballot stuffing.  Say you had some corrupt motherfuckers in Georgia running up the scoreboard with thousands of fake ballots. The effect of that manipulation wouldn’t go past influencing the outcome of that state because of the EC. 

Point is, getting rid of the EC does have a trade off but over my lifetime it’s proven to be an instrument that suppressed the will of the people and devalues my vote.  

Hugo, what are your thoughts on the Maine and Nebraska approaches?  I think they set two votes aside for whoever wins the state and the rest go by districts.  Basically allow each state to decide how they want to vote for President.  (Admit I am just starting to read up on this issue.)

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Your points are correct but there's a reason Dems suddenly love the idea.


Suddenly? Most democrats I know have been against it for going on 20 years now.

Yeah, Bush/Gore will be 20 years old as of the next election cycle.

That’s not suddenly and we’re all old.
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5 hours ago, tantric superman said:

This is kind of it in a nutshell, but again, to me it would be like a neighborhood association asking me to join, but then telling me that my voting power would be based on the number of people in my household, and I realize that my and my wife are the only childless couples in a neighborhood of mormons and catholics.  You want me to join?  Then one house, one vote. 

 

Does your household gain more in benefits from the Neighborhood Association than it contributes, and are you never shutting up about your neighbors getting "free stuff"? Perhaps the problem lies here.

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16 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

Hugo, what are your thoughts on the Maine and Nebraska approaches?  I think they set two votes aside for whoever wins the state and the rest go by districts.  Basically allow each state to decide how they want to vote for President.  (Admit I am just starting to read up on this issue.)

I don’t have much of an opinion on that but...

Bottom line, I think the States should decide how to approach the electoral college problem.  I like the idea of states choosing to give all their EC votes to the popular vote winner.  Some states are doing this.  If enough states did this it would make the electoral college problem irrelevant. 

I don’t like the idea of federalized national elections.  The decentralization of the states overseeing elections is better IMO.  I just don’t like the Electoral College. 

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If you tell me that the EC system as is has become obsolete over the past 230 years due to population growth and shifts, I can go there with you. 

If you tell me popular vote is the best solution, i don’t think I can believe that. 

If you tell me that we should change to popular vote because it’s better than Electoral and then we can come up with and evaluate other options...I don’t know that it is so why can’t we keep the EV while we evaluate?

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A notable feature of the 2016 Electoral College vote was the record number of so-called “faithless electors” – electors who cast their ballots for someone other than the official nominee of the party they’re pledged to represent. The five Democratic electors who voted for people other than Clinton included three from Washington State who chose Colin Powell and another who chose Yankton Sioux tribal elder Faith Spotted Eagle, and one from Hawaii who voted for Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, Clinton’s rival in the primaries. In addition, the two Texas electors who spurned Trump voted instead for Ohio Gov. John Kasich (whom Trump had defeated in the primaries) and former U.S. Rep. Ron Paul

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/12/20/why-electoral-college-landslides-are-easier-to-win-than-popular-vote-ones/

 

so a dozen EC electors could choose the popular vote winner outdoing the EV 

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19 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

If you tell me that the EC system as is has become obsolete over the past 230 years due to population growth and shifts, I can go there with you. 

If you tell me popular vote is the best solution, i don’t think I can believe that. 

If you tell me that we should change to popular vote because it’s better than Electoral and then we can come up with and evaluate other options...I don’t know that it is so why can’t we keep the EV while we evaluate?

the primary system needs a massive overhaul, but that's a different problem.  you could do both at the same time. 

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27 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

tyranny of the majority many of you are for and not for the intended design of our republic.  please, read the federalist papers as to why things are the way they are.  makes complete since.  this is all by masterful design.  

I’ve read them. Found them shallow and pedantic.

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10 hours ago, Royalfan5 said:

The smaller states already get disproportionate representation in that senate, how much more to they need to be coddled?

This.

There isn't one good reason to have anything other than a majority vote nationwide for president.

Several million Texans voted for Hillary and several million Californians voted for Trump and their votes did not matter.  Who knows how many more didn't bother because they knew their votes didn't matter?

As it is now, we have elections decided by people in Florida and Ohio, and those are cesspools.  Brilliant.

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52 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

tyranny of the majority many of you are for and not for the intended design of our republic.  please, read the federalist papers as to why things are the way they are.  makes complete since.  this is all by masterful design.  

to protect the institution of slavery, it certainly worked for ~70 years

Edited by Michael Knight
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6 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I don’t have much of an opinion on that but...

Bottom line, I think the States should decide how to approach the electoral college problem.  I like the idea of states choosing to give all their EC votes to the popular vote winner.  Some states are doing this.  If enough states did this it would make the electoral college problem irrelevant. 

I don’t like the idea of federalized national elections.  The decentralization of the states overseeing elections is better IMO.  I just don’t like the Electoral College. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact

I like it a lot.  Though I think it needs Texas to really become a reality.  And good fucking luck there.  Our state is dumb.

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1 hour ago, tjhooker said:

tyranny of the majority many of you are for and not for the intended design of our republic.  please, read the federalist papers as to why things are the way they are.  makes complete since.  this is all by masterful design.  

It was designed to protect minority interests with the understanding that the majority would always have some power. Instead, it permits a tyrannical minority to shit all over majority interests. 

And I know you prefer tyranny of the minority. The problem that you have there is that it always leads to revolution when the majority finally has enough. 

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The idea that the electoral college was part of a master design is hilariously stupid. It was a last-minute compromise between factions that couldn’t agree on anything but everyone wanted to get home so figured it was good enough.

It was so “masterfully designed” we had to amend the Constitution to fix it after our first election of a president not named George Washington turned into a complete and total clusterfuck.

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6 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

The idea that the electoral college was part of a master design is hilariously stupid. It was a last-minute compromise between factions that couldn’t agree on anything but everyone wanted to get home so figured it was good enough.

It was so “masterfully designed” we had to amend the Constitution to fix it after our first election of a president not named George Washington turned into a complete and total clusterfuck.

The 12th Amendment fixed a technical defect regarding votes for President and Vice President.  The state-by-state counting of electoral votes and its basic structure were preserved.

The fact that its basic function was preserved in the amendment process 20 years after ratification kinda indicates that everyone thought it was important.  They could have just repealed it in favor of a popular vote.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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21 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

The 12th Amendment fixed a technical defect regarding votes for President and Vice President.  The state-by-state counting of electoral votes and its basic structure were preserved.

The fact that its basic function was preserved in the amendment process 20 years after ratification kinda indicates that everyone thought it was important.  They could have just repealed it in favor of a popular vote.

Stop with facts.

 

MOAR LEFTIST TALKING POINTS !!!!!!’

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25 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

The 12th Amendment fixed a technical defect regarding votes for President and Vice President.  The state-by-state counting of electoral votes and its basic structure were preserved.

The fact that its basic function was preserved in the amendment process 20 years after ratification kinda indicates that everyone thought it was important.  They could have just repealed it in favor of a popular vote.

I think it’s likely more indicative of the fact that they couldn’t get enough people to agree on anything better. The southern states were never going to ratify an amendment that reduced their power.

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hypothetical -- what is the highest percentage of votes for a losing candidate?

ie , can someone get 70% of the popular vote but still lose the EC?  Seems like an interesting Excel project (for me). That's how bad the EC can get, completely subvert the will of the people. 

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1 hour ago, NowThis said:

hypothetical -- what is the highest percentage of votes for a losing candidate?

ie , can someone get 70% of the popular vote but still lose the EC?  Seems like an interesting Excel project (for me). That's how bad the EC can get, completely subvert the will of the people. 

That's easy, you just take the fewest amount of states needed to get to 270  have that candidate win by 1-2 votes in each of those states, and then get completely swept in the rest. In this experiment, we'll presume it to be a true 2-person race

So here they are for 2016: California,Texas, Florida, New York, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Georgia, Michigan, North Carolina, and then Wyoming (because the preceding 10 give you 267, so we just need the smallest state that allocates 3 EC votes):

Candidate A carries those 11 states with 35,317,784 votes, and has crossed the 270 EC barrier
Candidate B: Sweeps the other 39 states plus DC with a grand total of 101,351,492 votes, yet he only has 269 EC votes

So the answer to your question is about 3/4ths of the total vote.

Edited by hpslugga
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6 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

That's easy, you just take the fewest amount of states needed to get to 270  have that candidate win by 1-2 votes in each of those states, and then get completely swept in the rest. In this experiment, we'll presume it to be a true 2-person race

So here they are for 2016: California,Texas, Florida, New York, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Georgia, Michigan, North Carolina, and then Wyoming (because the preceding 10 give you 267, so we just need to smallest state that allocates 3 EC votes):

Candidate A carries those 11 states with 35,317,784 votes, and has crossed the 270 EC barrier
Candidate B: Sweeps the other 39 states plus DC with a grand total of 101,351,492 votes, yet he only has 269 EC votes

It can be worse. All states have 2 electors reflecting their senators, so voting power per vote is much higher in low population states. So you have to run the numbers in the other direction. The winner takes all the lowest population states by 1 vote to get to 270. Loser sweeps the rest. 

Edited by FondrenRoad
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2 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

That's easy, you just take the fewest amount of states needed to get to 270  have that candidate win by 1-2 votes in each of those states, and then get completely swept in the rest. In this experiment, we'll presume it to be a true 2-person race

So here they are for 2016: California,Texas, Florida, New York, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Georgia, Michigan, North Carolina, and then Wyoming (because the preceding 10 give you 267, so we just need to smallest state that allocates 3 EC votes):

Candidate A carries those 11 states with 35,317,784 votes, and has crossed the 270 EC barrier
Candidate B: Sweeps the other 39 states plus DC with a grand total of 101,351,492 votes, yet he only has 269 EC votes

266 103,202,348 272

         33,466,889

 

i did an Excel scenario where the R guy had just 33.4 million votes about 24.6% and won with 272 EVs.  Presumption was barely winning states with 50.1% of the vote and getting swept in the Dem states with large populations.  it could be slightly worse if only 1 or 2 votes per state decided the winner instead of 5000 as in most of my 'close' states.  I think the max % for the loser is around 77-78%, based on 2016 total votes by state. Still, the system can produce some bizarre scenarios.  Five POTUS elections have had the popular winner lose. 

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2 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

It can be worse. All states have 2 electors reflecting their senators, so voting power per vote is much higher in low population states. So you have to run the numbers in the other direction. The winner takes all the lowest population states by 1 vote to get to 270. Loser sweeps the rest. 

Ah then I stand corrected...that IS worse.

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4 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

It can be worse. All states have 2 electors reflecting their senators, so voting power per vote is much higher in low populatuon states. So you have to run the numbers in the other direction. The winner takes all the lowest population states by 1 vote to get to 270. Loser sweeps the rest. 

run the numbers then, see what you get. I'd be interested to see if the worst case scenario breaks 80%. 

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2 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

Ah then I stand corrected...that IS worse.

Actually, one possible compromise reform to the electoral college is to have it reflect the population and to eliminate the 2 senate based electors. It would still allow small states to be heard and swing states to still exist while also making every person's vote be closer to equal. 

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3 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

No patience to manually do that. Where are you running your numbers?

on my super computer  ... lol no , my desktop with Excel. 

I had to give the Dems the small states and all their votes, otherwise it wasn't close enough, ie the Rep would have close to 300.  So the best I could do was 272-266 and the Dem with 75.51% of the popular vote. 

only took abotu 25 minutes, used Wiki as my source. 

Edited by NowThis
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38 states regardless of size needed to amend the constitution and modify/remove/replace the EC—-right?   So having a bunch of big population centers in states like California and Texas aren’t enough?   So there’d be these ‘swing states’ of you will, where you’d need a 50%+1 strategy of their legislature, eh?  Hmmm, as if they were a sort of college of elected folks?   Hmmmmm 

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  2016 POTUS  Dem Rep
  Total EV Total Votes EV Votes EV Votes
Alabama 9 2,123,372   1,059,563 9            1,063,809
Alaska 3 318,608   158,985 3                159,623
Arizona 11 2,573,165   1,284,009 11            1,289,156
Arkansas 6 1,130,635   564,187 6                566,448
California 55 14,181,595 55 14,181,595    
Colorado 9 2,780,247 9 2,780,247    
Connecticut 7 1,644,920 7 1,644,920    
Delaware 3 443,814 3 443,814    
District of Columbia 3 311,268 3 311,268    
Florida 29 9,420,039   4,700,599 29            4,719,440
Georgia 16 4,114,732   2,053,251 16            2,061,481
Hawaii 4 428,937 4 428,937    
Idaho 4 690,255   344,437 4                345,818
Illinois 20 5,536,424 20 5,536,424    
Indiana 11 2,734,958   1,364,744 11            1,370,214
Iowa 6 1,566,031 6 1,566,031    
Kansas 6 1,184,402   591,017 6                593,385
Kentucky 8 1,924,149   960,150 8                963,999
Louisiana 8 2,029,032   1,012,487 8            1,016,545
Maine (at-lg) 4 747,927 4 747,927    
Maryland 10 2,781,446 10 2,781,446    
Massachusetts 11 3,325,046 11 3,325,046    
Michigan 16 4,799,284 16 4,799,284    
Minnesota 10 2,944,813 10 2,944,813    
Mississippi 6 1,209,357   603,469 6                605,888
Missouri 10 2,808,605   1,401,494 10            1,407,111
Montana 3 497,147   248,076 3                249,071
Nebraska (at-lg) 5 844,227   421,269 5                422,958
Nevada 6 1,125,385   561,567 6                563,818
New Hampshire 4 744,296 4 744,296    
New Jersey 14 3,874,046 14 3,874,046    
New Mexico 5 798,319 5 798,319    
New York 29 7,721,453 29 7,721,453    
North Carolina 15 4,741,564   2,366,040 15            2,375,524
North Dakota 3 344,360   171,836 3                172,524
Ohio 18 5,496,487   2,742,747 18            2,753,740
Oklahoma 7 1,452,992   725,043 7                727,949
Oregon 7 2,001,336 7 2,001,336    
Pennsylvania 20 6,165,478 20 6,165,478    
Rhode Island 4 464,144 4 464,144    
South Carolina 9 2,103,027   1,049,410 9            1,053,617
South Dakota 3 370,093   184,676 3                185,417
Tennessee 11 2,508,027   1,251,505 11            1,256,522
Texas 38 8,969,226   4,475,644 38            4,493,582
Utah 6 1,131,430   564,584 6                566,846
Vermont 3 315,067 3 315,067    
Virginia 13 3,984,631   1,988,331 13            1,996,300
Washington 12 3,317,019 12 3,317,019    
West Virginia 5 714,423   356,497 5                357,926
Wisconsin 10 2,976,150 10 2,976,150    
Wyoming 3 255,849   127,669 3                128,180
U.S. Total 538 136,669,237 266 103,202,348 272          33,466,889
        75.51%   24.49%
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3 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

The idea that the electoral college was part of a master design is hilariously stupid. It was a last-minute compromise between factions that couldn’t agree on anything but everyone wanted to get home so figured it was good enough.

It was so “masterfully designed” we had to amend the Constitution to fix it after our first election of a president not named George Washington turned into a complete and total clusterfuck. 

Yep, that's how shit liked that worked.

The interesting thing is, it's still better than simple majority where we are asking states to give up power to a federal government.

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34 minutes ago, NowThis said:

on my super computer  ... lol no , my desktop with Excel. 

I had to give the Dems the small states and all their votes, otherwise it wasn't close enough, ie the Rep would have close to 300.  So the best I could do was 272-266 and the Dem with 75.51% of the popular vote. 

only took abotu 25 minutes, used Wiki as my source. 

Why 300?  Are you giving Texas to the GOP or something?  This is a hypothetical to determine the maximum possible discrepancy.  Parties don't even matter.  You can't make any assumptions based on past votes.  You can get to exactly 268 with the top population states if you swap NJ and WA.

So popular vote winner sweeps:  CA 55, TX, 38, NY 29, FL 29, PA 20, IL 20, OH 18, GA 16, MI 16, NC 15, WA 12 for 268.

EC winner wins all the rest by 1 vote each for 270.

That will give you the biggest difference in popular vote.

Edited by FondrenRoad
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so redid it purely by biggest states first, loser takes all those votes. VA actually had 13 EVs with WA 12, so that was a minor adjustment.

Someone can become President with only 22.76% of the popular vote

  2016 POTUS  Dem Rep
  Total EV Total Votes EV  Votes  EV  Votes 
California 55 14,181,595 55               14,181,595    
Texas 38 8,969,226 38                 8,969,226    
New York 29 7,721,453 29                 7,721,453    
Florida 29 9,420,039 29                 9,420,039    
Illinois 20 5,536,424 20                 5,536,424    
Pennsylvania 20 6,165,478 20                 6,165,478    
Ohio 18 5,496,487 18                 5,496,487    
Georgia 16 4,114,732 16                 4,114,732    
Michigan 16 4,799,284 16                 4,799,284    
North Carolina 15 4,741,564 15                 4,741,564    
Washington 12 3,317,019 12                 3,317,019    
New Jersey 14 3,874,046                   1,937,022 14            1,937,024
Virginia 13 3,984,631                   1,992,315 13            1,992,317
Tennessee 11 2,508,027                   1,254,013 11            1,254,015
Arizona 11 2,573,165                   1,286,582 11            1,286,584
Indiana 11 2,734,958                   1,367,478 11            1,367,480
Massachusetts 11 3,325,046                   1,662,522 11            1,662,524
Maryland 10 2,781,446                   1,390,722 10            1,390,724
Missouri 10 2,808,605                   1,404,302 10            1,404,304
Minnesota 10 2,944,813                   1,472,406 10            1,472,408
Wisconsin 10 2,976,150                   1,488,074 10            1,488,076
South Carolina 9 2,103,027                   1,051,513 9            1,051,515
Alabama 9 2,123,372                   1,061,685 9            1,061,687
Colorado 9 2,780,247                   1,390,123 9            1,390,125
Kentucky 8 1,924,149                       962,074 8                962,076
Louisiana 8 2,029,032                   1,014,515 8            1,014,517
Oklahoma 7 1,452,992                       726,495 7                726,497
Connecticut 7 1,644,920                       822,459 7                822,461
Oregon 7 2,001,336                   1,000,667 7            1,000,669
Nevada 6 1,125,385                       562,692 6                562,694
Arkansas 6 1,130,635                       565,317 6                565,319
Utah 6 1,131,430                       565,714 6                565,716
Kansas 6 1,184,402                       592,200 6                592,202
Mississippi 6 1,209,357                       604,678 6                604,680
Iowa 6 1,566,031                       783,015 6                783,017
West Virginia 5 714,423                       357,211 5                357,213
New Mexico 5 798,319                       399,159 5                399,161
Nebraska (at-lg) 5 844,227                       422,113 5                422,115
Hawaii 4 428,937                       214,468 4                214,470
Rhode Island 4 464,144                       232,071 4                232,073
Idaho 4 690,255                       345,127 4                345,129
New Hampshire 4 744,296                       372,147 4                372,149
Maine (at-lg) 4 747,927                       373,963 4                373,965
Wyoming 3 255,849                       127,924 3                127,926
District of Columbia 3 311,268                       155,633 3                155,635
Vermont 3 315,067                       157,533 3                157,535
Alaska 3 318,608                       159,303 3                159,305
North Dakota 3 344,360                       172,179 3                172,181
South Dakota 3 370,093                       185,046 3                185,048
Delaware 3 443,814                       221,906 3                221,908
Montana 3 497,147                       248,573 3                248,575
U.S. Total 538 136,669,237 268            105,566,229 270          31,103,008
        77.24%   22.76%
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4 hours ago, NowThis said:

hypothetical -- what is the highest percentage of votes for a losing candidate?

ie , can someone get 70% of the popular vote but still lose the EC?  Seems like an interesting Excel project (for me). That's how bad the EC can get, completely subvert the will of the people. 

As it relates to the President, its the will of the states.  why even have a Senate? 

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20 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

It wouldn’t shock me to see some Democrat inspired “Move to Texas” campaign in the next decade, to help push our state to the blue side.

And it’s fucking stupid that something like that could matter when electing the leader of our country.

That started 183 years ago...

and has been ramped up like a motherfucker in the past 20 years.

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4 hours ago, Scooter Monzingo said:

So, someone tell me who had the popular vote but lost the election due to the EC going back to, let’s say FDR’s first term?

The current system started before the Civil War. In 1824, Andrew Jackson won the popular vote but received less than half of the electoral votes. He lost out to John Quincy Adams.

A few decades later, in 1876, Samuel Tilden won the popular vote but lost the election by one electoral vote to Rutherford B Hayes.

In 1888, Grover Cleveland also clinched the most popular votes in the country but conceded his 168 electoral college votes to Benjamin Harrison’s 233 electoral votes 

2000 Al Gore

2016 HR Clinton

 

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8 hours ago, NowThis said:

so redid it purely by biggest states first, loser takes all those votes. VA actually had 13 EVs with WA 12, so that was a minor adjustment.

Someone can become President with only 22.76% of the popular vote

  2016 POTUS  Dem Rep
  Total EV Total Votes EV  Votes  EV  Votes 
California 55 14,181,595 55               14,181,595    
Texas 38 8,969,226 38                 8,969,226    
New York 29 7,721,453 29                 7,721,453    
Florida 29 9,420,039 29                 9,420,039    
Illinois 20 5,536,424 20                 5,536,424    
Pennsylvania 20 6,165,478 20                 6,165,478    
Ohio 18 5,496,487 18                 5,496,487    
Georgia 16 4,114,732 16                 4,114,732    
Michigan 16 4,799,284 16                 4,799,284    
North Carolina 15 4,741,564 15                 4,741,564    
Washington 12 3,317,019 12                 3,317,019    
New Jersey 14 3,874,046                   1,937,022 14            1,937,024
Virginia 13 3,984,631                   1,992,315 13            1,992,317
Tennessee 11 2,508,027                   1,254,013 11            1,254,015
Arizona 11 2,573,165                   1,286,582 11            1,286,584
Indiana 11 2,734,958                   1,367,478 11            1,367,480
Massachusetts 11 3,325,046                   1,662,522 11            1,662,524
Maryland 10 2,781,446                   1,390,722 10            1,390,724
Missouri 10 2,808,605                   1,404,302 10            1,404,304
Minnesota 10 2,944,813                   1,472,406 10            1,472,408
Wisconsin 10 2,976,150                   1,488,074 10            1,488,076
South Carolina 9 2,103,027                   1,051,513 9            1,051,515
Alabama 9 2,123,372                   1,061,685 9            1,061,687
Colorado 9 2,780,247                   1,390,123 9            1,390,125
Kentucky 8 1,924,149                       962,074 8                962,076
Louisiana 8 2,029,032                   1,014,515 8            1,014,517
Oklahoma 7 1,452,992                       726,495 7                726,497
Connecticut 7 1,644,920                       822,459 7                822,461
Oregon 7 2,001,336                   1,000,667 7            1,000,669
Nevada 6 1,125,385                       562,692 6                562,694
Arkansas 6 1,130,635                       565,317 6                565,319
Utah 6 1,131,430                       565,714 6                565,716
Kansas 6 1,184,402                       592,200 6                592,202
Mississippi 6 1,209,357                       604,678 6                604,680
Iowa 6 1,566,031                       783,015 6                783,017
West Virginia 5 714,423                       357,211 5                357,213
New Mexico 5 798,319                       399,159 5                399,161
Nebraska (at-lg) 5 844,227                       422,113 5                422,115
Hawaii 4 428,937                       214,468 4                214,470
Rhode Island 4 464,144                       232,071 4                232,073
Idaho 4 690,255                       345,127 4                345,129
New Hampshire 4 744,296                       372,147 4                372,149
Maine (at-lg) 4 747,927                       373,963 4                373,965
Wyoming 3 255,849                       127,924 3                127,926
District of Columbia 3 311,268                       155,633 3                155,635
Vermont 3 315,067                       157,533 3                157,535
Alaska 3 318,608                       159,303 3                159,305
North Dakota 3 344,360                       172,179 3                172,181
South Dakota 3 370,093                       185,046 3                185,048
Delaware 3 443,814                       221,906 3                221,908
Montana 3 497,147                       248,573 3                248,575
U.S. Total 538 136,669,237 268            105,566,229 270          31,103,008
        77.24%   22.76%

Nah, it can still be worse if you adjust turnout. Winner gets to 270 in states where only 1 person votes.  Loser hits 268 in states where every eligible voter votes. So a candidate could win with only 11 votes. 

And looking at your numbers, Florida and Montana really turn out, don't they?  Florida I get. Swing state, but why does Montana show up at the polls?

Edited by FondrenRoad
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2 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Nah, it can still be worse if you adjust turnout. Winner gets to 270 in states where only 1 person votes.  Loser hits 268 in states where every eligible voter votes. So a candidate could win with only 11 votes. 

well i was using actual 2016 data. 

How about if no one voted? Who wins then?

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