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HBO's Watchmen series


mdmost

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28 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Did Manhattan state his "life" ends or just that there is a tragedy? I can't recall.

He also says they are going to transport him against his will and destroy him. 
 

However he’s already been destroyed, twice. Once as Jon Osterman (in the original accident) and once as Dr. Manhattan (by Adrian Veidt). He came back both times. It’s one of the best quotes from the book, along the lines of “if it didn’t destroy Jon Osterman; why would it destroy Dr. Manhattan.” 
 

So even if the 7th Kalvary does succeed in destroying him, I doubt he stays destroyed. 

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I’ll play along, but I don’t like timeline plots because of the paradoxes that arise. 

DM talks about the future he is experiencing as if it cannot be changed. Angela will have dinner with him, they will be together for 10 years, etc. either that or he is manipulating the timeline to go where he chooses. 
 

I need to watch the ep again, as I’m still a bit confused about how he knows Angela is will’s granddaughter, and when he tells will what’s going on such that Angela can have drm ask about the robe, and why he does it and allows for future events to affect the past. 

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26 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I’ll play along, but I don’t like timeline plots because of the paradoxes that arise. 

DM talks about the future he is experiencing as if it cannot be changed. Angela will have dinner with him, they will be together for 10 years, etc. either that or he is manipulating the timeline to go where he chooses. 
 

I need to watch the ep again, as I’m still a bit confused about how he knows Angela is will’s granddaughter, and when he tells will what’s going on such that Angela can have drm ask about the robe, and why he does it and allows for future events to affect the past. 

because from his perspective, it is all happening at the same time and what must be is inevitable.

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Yes, it's difficult to think through all of the possibilities of how time is impacted if someone basically experienced everything from ~1955-2009, 2019+ at the same moment.  

If that is the truth, then this creates some inconsistencies in the movie since DM learns things throughout the movie that he didn't know earlier in the movie.  If the TV show is correct, then basically if he learns someone in the future, then his past knows it as well. In the movie, he should have know what Adrian would eventually do since he (DM) experiences it.

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1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Yes, it's difficult to think through all of the possibilities of how time is impacted if someone basically experienced everything from ~1955-2009, 2019+ at the same moment.  

If that is the truth, then this creates some inconsistencies in the movie since DM learns things throughout the movie that he didn't know earlier in the movie.  If the TV show is correct, then basically if he learns someone in the future, then his past knows it as well. In the movie, he should have know what Adrian would eventually do since he (DM) experiences it.

In the comic, and I’m pretty sure in the movie, his perception of time is affected by the tachyons. That’s why he wasn’t aware of Ozy’s plan. His perception of time in the movie is consistent with the TV show. 

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3 hours ago, Dark Horse said:

In the comic, and I’m pretty sure in the movie, his perception of time is affected by the tachyons. That’s why he wasn’t aware of Ozy’s plan. His perception of time in the movie is consistent with the TV show. 

I was thinking more that he didn’t know that comedians was lauries father.  Later he discovered it, but wouldn’t that mean he knew that before as well?

Edited by Nice Guy Eddie
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13 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Oxy and his punishment, and how he can potentially escape. The cake makes an appearance with what I think was 7 candles. Previously it was mentioned that he disappeared 7 years from the main story timeline so the cake would represent that his story is now caught up. Sets it up that the comet crashing to earth may be him.

who eats a egg made by Dr. M? Angela, Senator Joe? 

 

22 hours ago, hornian said:

Dr. Manhattan said he could put his powers into some organic matter, and a person could ingest that matter and absorb his powers. 

This whole season has a theme with eggs. 

He told Angela to watch the eggs in the kitchen he was making waffles, but she crushed them. 

That has to be a Chekhov’s Gun. He put his powers in an egg. Who is going to eat it and become the new Dr. Manhattan?

Angela seems too obvious. I doubt it is actually Bob Benson, I mean Senator Bob Benson. 

My money’s on Will Reeves. 

I bet it’s his oldest adopted son. Remember he was doing something crazy with the castle Toy thing earlier?  Maybe after he gets his Powers he will always have had his powers?  Time is a flat circle and all that jazz  

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7 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I’ll play along, but I don’t like timeline plots because of the paradoxes that arise. 

DM talks about the future he is experiencing as if it cannot be changed. Angela will have dinner with him, they will be together for 10 years, etc. either that or he is manipulating the timeline to go where he chooses. 
 

The paradoxes are fascinating, but only seem impossible when you think of time as linear, as we experience it.

And you're right:  It's impossible for anyone/anything to have knowledge of future of events without the universe being completely deterministic.  If the future can unfold differently, then he didn't "know" what would occur.

At least, I've never been able to think my way out of that unavoidable conclusion.  And I've tried.  

If the multiverse really exists, and everything possible actually does happen, then it doesn't matter anyway.  Because it all happens.

Edited by Augustus
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7 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Yes, it's difficult to think through all of the possibilities of how time is impacted if someone basically experienced everything from ~1955-2009, 2019+ at the same moment.  

If that is the truth, then this creates some inconsistencies in the movie since DM learns things throughout the movie that he didn't know earlier in the movie.  If the TV show is correct, then basically if he learns someone in the future, then his past knows it as well. In the movie, he should have know what Adrian would eventually do since he (DM) experiences it.

DMs deterministically/fatalistic loophole is that it's already happened (and happening at the same time).  What he knows in the (linear) past, because he learned it from the (linear) future, already happened.  Therefore he already knew it in the past

It's a convenient loophole

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7 hours ago, Lurch said:

 


I missed this. What was the significance of the horseshoe

 

First episode, first scene we meet Veidt. His servants give him a cake and a horseshoe to cut the cake with. Veidt gets frustrated & says “this is a horseshoe, not a knife”. It was the first hint that something was off with his servants, in addition to just being super random.

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1 hour ago, Helobious said:

First episode, first scene we meet Veidt. His servants give him a cake and a horseshoe to cut the cake with. Veidt gets frustrated & says “this is a horseshoe, not a knife”. It was the first hint that something was off with his servants, in addition to just being super random.

I believe he also says "I don't need that yet". I'm probably getting confused though 

Edited by seven
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4 minutes ago, seven said:

I heard on a podcast that Lindelof has said this is supposed to be a self contained season and didn't have plans for additional seasons and if there are additional seasons he doesn't think he'll be involved. 

Yup. He’s finishing his story In 9 episodes. If someone else wants to continue he’s ok with that 

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One thing that has stood out to me is that Dr. M seems resigned to his fate. No urgency at all to save himself from the 7K. He only intervenes to save Angela. 

It’s been pointed out on podcasts that Dr. M constantly feels the pain and fear of his creation. He also feels all of his emotions, all the time, all at once. This doesn’t seem like a very enjoyable existence. Maybe he wants to die? 

Fogdancer is about a super solider that constantly feels regret and sorrow about his actions during the Vietnam War. It’s thesis:  the only escape is death.

Also one more small thing, I didn’t see a man behind the canon immediately before or after it captured Dr. M. Maybe it was locked on to him and set to fire automatically? 

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1 hour ago, Lurch said:

Somebody is about to get paid.

I think the showrunner Damon Lindelof is being sincere when he says he just wants to do one season. Right this minute, he probably is done. 

He’s expressed regret at how long Lost went on. He’s also a Watchmen super fan that wrote a lengthy letter to the fans explaining his motives. 

I do agree that HBO is going to back the Brinks truck up for him.

Something that’a been hinted at is an anthology like show. Theoretically, Season 2 would be Watchmen, but with completely different characters. The Minute Men source material would make sense, but I’m not sure Lindelof would do a period piece set in the 30s and 40s. The Comedian in Vietnam would also be a darned good show, but again period piece. Maybe Lindelof’s writing partner Jeff Jensen would be interested? Lindelof has said repeatedly that Jensen is a much bigger Watchmen fan than even himself. Jensen would be jumping from writing Lost recaps to running a show. It would be a huge leap, but everybody starts somewhere. 

I think Lindelof is a really bright guy that will have plenty of opportunities to do whatever he wants creatively. 

Edited by billfromlaketravis
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37 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

One thing that has stood out to me is that Dr. M seems resigned to his fate. No urgency at all to save himself from the 7K. He only intervenes to save Angela. 

It’s been pointed out on podcasts that Dr. M constantly feels the pain and fear of his creation. He also feels all of his emotions, all the time, all at once. This doesn’t seem like a very enjoyable existence. Maybe he wants to die? 

Fogdancer is about a super solider that constantly feels regret and sorrow about his actions during the Vietnam War. It’s thesis:  the only escape is death.

Also one more small thing, I didn’t see a man behind the canon immediately before or after it captured Dr. M. Maybe it was locked on to him and set to fire automatically? 

But as Angela points out, why would he have fear since he knows what happens from the time of his accident until his destruction, minus the decade as cal. And normally I’d say the missing decade would be filled in by learning of things afterward, but it seems so far that his destruction might be right after he “wakes up,” in which case he probably knows very little about the last 10 years of his life. 

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9 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

But as Angela points out, why would he have fear since he knows what happens from the time of his accident until his destruction, minus the decade as cal. And normally I’d say the missing decade would be filled in by learning of things afterward, but it seems so far that his destruction might be right after he “wakes up,” in which case he probably knows very little about the last 10 years of his life. 

My understanding is that Dr. M experiences   everything all at once. The future, the past, and the present. When he feels fear in the present, he’s experiencing his creation in 1959. 

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On 12/9/2019 at 2:49 PM, 52-80 said:

this show has  lot of dong

This. Great show but when you see the “Nudity” advisory at start of episode be aware that 90% of it is dong or dude’s asses. NTTIAWWT. 
 

But if you’re expecting  gratuitous boob shots a la “Game of Thrones” you’ll be sorely disappointed. 
 

I dig the Looking Glass character, my favorite part of the show by far. Keep waiting for him to start breaking out in song. 

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2 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

How come no one knows what Veidt did at the end of the book/movie? Wasn’t that in Rorshach’s journal?

The only people who knew were Dr Manhattan, Rorschach, Nite Owl, and Laurie. Rorschach mailed his journal off to a conspiracy paper. So it's out there but no one believes the lunatic fringe. Veidt's confession to President Redford is the only reason anyone else would know. 

Edited by mdmost
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There are so many great moments in this series, but one of my favorites so far was Veidt in the boat, pulling babies from the water.  Looks one over, and with some exasperation just tosses it back in the lake.

Struck my funny bone I guess, because I rarely have genuine LOL moments watching anything.

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5 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

How come no one knows what Veidt did at the end of the book/movie? Wasn’t that in Rorshach’s journal?

Rorschach sent his journal before traveling to Veidt’s lair with the others, so the it could only contain whatever he had figured out up to that point.

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10 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

How come no one knows what Veidt did at the end of the book/movie? Wasn’t that in Rorshach’s journal?

Uh, did you miss the part where the US Government knows? And basically all the 7th kalvary because of Bob Benson? And Looking Glass now?

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Uh, did you miss the part where the US Government knows? And basically all the 7th kalvary because of Bob Benson? And Looking Glass now?


I meant the general public. The implication at the end of the book and film was that R’s journal would bring everything to light. I think they knew Veidt was up to something before they headed to Antarctica or they wouldn’t have gone.
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