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(censored) video- cop straight up murders a dude


Goo Punch

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31 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Those officers requested over a dozen times for the individual to step out of the car, for almost three minutes, in a dark parking lot where that individual apparently did not belong. The suspect heightened the danger for the officers and escalated the situation.

Then, the suspect took off in a car at a high rate of speed, further escalating the dangerous situation.

At the point of the shooting it is blacked out, so it is unclear what actually happened at that moment. Yet, you’ve chosen to interpret the situation as being completely the officer’s fault.

At some point, the issue of people ignoring officer’s instructions over and over and over, and even fleeing officers, needs to be discussed. When did this become acceptable behavior? These people are helping to escalate situations unnecessarily and are contributing to these tragic events.

You have no idea how hard it is for these officers to deal with those situations. For every one of these videos where an officer appears to take action that could be interpreted as being unnecessary, there are a bunch of other events and situations where the individual does have a gun or is trying to harm the officers. I’ve worked with law enforcement for several years and I’ve seen the videos.

It is a fine line between escalation and deescalation and these people need to take partial responsibility for the tragic outcomes. Whether this particular situation was the officer’s fault or not can’t be determined until the full video is shown and the complete situation is fully reviewed. It’s bs to immediately call out the officer without understanding the full situation.

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At best, it may be a case of an amped up cop make a split-second horrific decision.

The suspect's car was pinned between two police vehicles and appears to be neutralized as a threat. The shooter's claim that there was no weapon but the guy was trying to ram another officer with his car appears to be either a lie or part of the horrific decision for the officer to fire through the windshield of a trapped car to kill a man who showed no signs of having a weapon.

Summary execution for a car chase and suspicion of a person who can still be apprehended without deadly force is a very poor standard for police action.

In the 70's I and a friend in the summer after graduating high school took a wild hair trip to Austin from Houston. We didn't have anywhere to stay, so we parked down by Ladybird Lake about a half mile from I-35. I slept in the front seat of an enormous Buick, my friend in the back.

I awoke to a tap on the window. An Austin cop was shining a flashlight on me. He asked me to get out.

I stepped out of the car into the light of 5 or 6 cruiser headlights. I could see the doors were open, but nothing else. I imagine 6-10 pistols were pointed at me. The cop who rousted me, was calm. Asked what we were doing there. My friend never did anything but hand his licence out the back window. He never even sat up.

The cop heard my story. Said it was illegal to do what we were doing, but we could finish the night there. Just don't do it again.

I'm white. That helps. But watching this video, I wonder if today, when my friend just stuck his hand out the window with his licence, if  some officer there might not have jumped to the conclusion it was a threat and opened fire. How do the odds change if I were a sleepy, black man?

I didn't take off like the guy in the video. But say I panicked and did. People do. Would I have taken one through the forehead after I was trapped by their cars? Would my parents have been okay with that? The community?

The pat answer of "these guys have a tough job and the guy did the wrong thing by not obeying" is not nearly justification for the killing of a citizen (or non-citizen). Flush that response out of your head. You're enabling the worst elements of the police force.

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56 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Then, the suspect took off in a car at a high rate of speed, further escalating the dangerous situation.

At the point of the shooting it is blacked out, so it is unclear what actually happened at that moment. Yet, you’ve chosen to interpret the situation as being completely the officer’s fault.

Can't watch the whole thing now, but assuming it's a black guy since it's WorldStar.  These days, if I'm a black guy in that situation and confronted like that, well, complying with the officers is liable to get you shot anyways.

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22 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Can't watch the whole thing now, but assuming it's a black guy since it's WorldStar.  These days, if I'm a black guy in that situation and confronted like that, well, complying with the officers is liable to get you shot anyways.

Bull.  Complying with the cops does NOT get you shot, no matter the color.  Comply from the start and you will live to see another day.

I'm a middle-aged white guy, but when I get pulled over I keep my hands on the steering wheel, say "yes sir" and "no sir", and only reach for insurance after telling the cop where it is located so he knows what I'm doing and can watch me.  My dad taught me when I was a young child that no matter how "in the right"  I may think I am, it won't matter if I'm dead because I did something stupid like reacting in a way where the cop doesn't know whether or not I'm reaching for a weapon.

I have had some seriously short-man, small-penis complex cops pull me over or interact with me in public.  No matter how in the wrong they were, I wasn't going to do anything to escalate the situation.  

You want to know why cops react the way they do?  Because there is a long, long, long list of dead cops who didn't.

 

Edited by Uncle Nate
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1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

1. Refusing to obey a police officer lawful order is a misdemeanor and does not carry a penalty of execution. 

2. Fleeing and eluding a police officer is a class B misdemeanor and does not carry a penalty of execution. 

Three police officers penned this mans car on each side so the car could not escape. The office exited his vehicle and immediately shot into the driver side window killing the citizen. The citizen did not have a weapon. I agree that the job is dangerous. However, a citizen committing the two crimes listed above does not in any way warrant a penalty of execution. Even if it did, it is not the duty of the police office to carry out the penalty. Just because the job is dangerous and other encounters had a citizen trying to harm an officer does not make it okay for his action. 

Ignoring the car chase...is it convenience or obtusity?

 

Of all the bullshit the cops get wrong, and there is plenty of material-  the whiffing is mighty strong with some of the recent offerings.

 

Y'all need to stop acting as if the perps were just trying to go donate blood and sing songs at the old folks home until Johnny Law ventilated them.

Edited by slorch
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2/3rds of blacks killed by cops are not armed.

cops kill more than 1000 people every year.

the last time more than 100 cops were killed in a year by weapon or assault (not weather, not accident, not duty-related illness), with the exception of 2001 (9/11), was 1996.

killing cops is declining.

cops killing is increasing.

the number of blacks killed by cops is decreasing.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/US_law_enforcement_deaths_in_the_line_of_duty_1791-2016.png

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/nationaltrends

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1 hour ago, Uncle Nate said:

Bull.  Complying with the cops does NOT get you shot, no matter the color.  Comply from the start and you will live to see another day.

I'm a middle-aged white guy, but when I get pulled over I keep my hands on the steering wheel, say "yes sir" and "no sir", and only reach for insurance after telling the cop where it is located so he knows what I'm doing and can watch me.  My dad taught me when I was a young child that no matter how "in the right"  I may think I am, it won't matter if I'm dead because I did something stupid like reacting in a way where the cop doesn't know whether or not I'm reaching for a weapon.

I have had some seriously short-man, small-penis complex cops pull me over or interact with me in public.  No matter how in the wrong they were, I wasn't going to do anything to escalate the situation.  

You want to know why cops react the way they do?  Because there is a long, long, long list of dead cops who didn't.

 

This simply is not true. 

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1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

This simply is not true. 

It simply is.

Read the rest of my post.  I dare you to find anyone shot by a cop who did exactly what my father taught me to do every time.  FROM THE START.

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34 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

It simply is.

Read the rest of my post.  I dare you to find anyone shot by a cop who did exactly what my father taught me to do every time.  FROM THE START.

I'm not supporting either side of the opinion, but the discussion is about Comply or Die.   As pointed out above, fleeing from cops does not have a legal penalty of execution, even if choosing to not do so (i.e., not fleeing, i.e. OBEYING regardless of the legalty) is one's best chance at life.

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2 hours ago, slorch said:

Ignoring the car chase...is it convenience or obtusity?

 

Of all the bullshit the cops get wrong, and there is plenty of material-  the whiffing is mighty strong with some of the recent offerings.

 

Y'all need to stop acting as if the perps were just trying to go donate blood and sing songs at the old folks home until Johnny Law ventilated them.

#2 covers the fleeing and eluding a police officer. It is a class B misdemeanor. I don’t believe that police officers are allowed to execute citizens for misdemeanors. The citizen did not display a weapon, the car was neutralized by the three squad cards. How was the officers life in danger? 

I am not pretending like this citizen is feeding the homeless and singing peace songs. The citizen was breaking the law and there are consequence for that. Those consequences do not include death. If the officer is unable to apprehend the citizen without killing them then that office is unqualified to do his job, and should not be allowed to be a police officer. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

#2 covers the fleeing and eluding a police officer. It is a class B misdemeanor. I don’t believe that police officers are allowed to execute citizens for misdemeanors. The citizen did not display a weapon, the car was neutralized by the three squad cards. How was the officers life in danger? 

I am not pretending like this citizen is feeding the homeless and singing peace songs. The citizen was breaking the law and there are consequence for that. Those consequences do not include death. If the officer is unable to apprehend the citizen without killing them then that office is unqualified to do his job, and should not be allowed to be a police officer. 

 

fleeing like Baker Mayfield  or after having demonstrated a threat to public safety in a vehicle?

Like I said, you're ignoring the truth to chase a fairy tale ending 

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10 minutes ago, slorch said:

fleeing like Baker Mayfield  or after having demonstrated a threat to public safety in a vehicle?

Like I said, you're ignoring the truth to chase a fairy tale ending 

None of that is deserving of being shot to death.  You are bending over backward to defend cops who no longer really deserve much benefit of the doubt.  They had it for too long and abused the shit out of it.

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Just now, TwiceHorn said:

None of that is deserving of being shot to death.  You are bending over backward to defend cops who no longer really deserve much benefit of the doubt.  They had it for too long and abused the shit out of it.

The citizen was obviously demonstrating reasonable judgment.  and was trying to comply, right?

 

look, I get it that the excessive force thing and wrongful death cases are real.  I have posted many times in the Houston 5 thread about wanting people above the officers to lose their jobs.  The bosses are negligent and it needs to stop.  In that we are likely in very strong agreement.  However, I am equally mindbottled over the Surly reaction to every incident being a qualifier for outrage.  While it is absolutely tragic, I do not agree that this is misuse of force or negligence by the police.  'Twill be interesting to hear what the courts say.

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23 minutes ago, slorch said:

That the threat was not necessarily neutralized.  Until it was.

That is fair. I believe the threat was neutralized. You do not. That is something that will be decided in court.

I also believe the best course of action would have been to let the person leave the scene. They had his plates. They could easily find him another time and charge him for evading. They did not need to force a confrontation over loitering. Which illuminates one of the core issues with police today as you stated above. Excessive force. This all stems from loitering. It’s not worth the confrontation. 

I think most people have trouble with the “not obeying a police officer”, including many police officers, which leads to many confrontations. Some people believe the consequences of the action to disobey an officer are justified, even if it includes harm. I do not 

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4 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Derka said there is no defending this one. Why are you arguing?  Disregard the police chase. 

lol, classic Rex Kramer contribution to a thread.

I agree with Roma and Neon- absolutely no justification for this one. The dude was neutralized and there was no sign of a weapon. Nothing in that video came close to warranting a bullet in the head. 

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3 hours ago, David Dennison said:

This simply is not true. 

particularly in the instances we see all too often where some confused and terrified (and usually black) person has 7 different cops with guns pointed at them, all screaming different orders. "Put your hands up!" "Don't fucking move!" "Get in the ground now!" "Show me your fucking hands or i'll cap your ass!" But hey, just comply, right?

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question- instead of the actual scenario in the video, let's say that our perp has stolen some property from someone, and instead of cops chasing him down it was citizens in vehicles. everything else about the video remains the same, only the guy who pulls the trigger is a citizen who was trying to reclaim his stolen property. is that considered a "good shoot"? would any sort of "stand your ground" law or castle doctrine apply? would the shooter be charged, and if so, with what? honest questions for those who know more about this stuff than i do. 

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3 hours ago, Uncle Nate said:

It simply is.

Read the rest of my post.  I dare you to find anyone shot by a cop who did exactly what my father taught me to do every time.  FROM THE START.

it's simply dumbfounding to me that so many people *believe* this when we have so much footage that proves otherwise. surely you've seen the video of the black dude who was murdered by the cops in the hotel hallway despite 100% following their directions FROM THE START. this idea that simply doing what the police say will prevent any harm coming to you is so undeniably false that it hurts my heart to know so many people actually believe that crap. 

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51 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

it's simply dumbfounding to me that so many people *believe* this when we have so much footage that proves otherwise. surely you've seen the video of the black dude who was murdered by the cops in the hotel hallway despite 100% following their directions FROM THE START. this idea that simply doing what the police say will prevent any harm coming to you is so undeniably false that it hurts my heart to know so many people actually believe that crap. 

Truth

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#2 covers the fleeing and eluding a police officer. It is a class B misdemeanor. I don’t believe that police officers are allowed to execute citizens for misdemeanors. The citizen did not display a weapon, the car was neutralized by the three squad cards. How was the officers life in danger? 

I am not pretending like this citizen is feeding the homeless and singing peace songs. The citizen was breaking the law and there are consequence for that. Those consequences do not include death. If the officer is unable to apprehend the citizen without killing them then that office is unqualified to do his job, and should not be allowed to be a police officer. 

 

 

Was it neutralized? How do you know that? It wasn’t neutralized when he failed to comply with the simple request. It wasn’t neutralized when he sped away at high speed and put innocent lives at risk. Maybe it was neutralized when the police cars rammed it. Or maybe it wasn’t. You all decided already.

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it's simply dumbfounding to me that so many people *believe* this when we have so much footage that proves otherwise. surely you've seen the video of the black dude who was murdered by the cops in the hotel hallway despite 100% following their directions FROM THE START. this idea that simply doing what the police say will prevent any harm coming to you is so undeniably false that it hurts my heart to know so many people actually believe that crap. 


It’s so easy to watch a video after the fact when the threat has been neutralized. But what about the one second before that? It amazes me that so many people immediately jump to the conclusion that the officer was at fault when they themselves in the same situation would have shit their pants with fear.
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particularly in the instances we see all too often where some confused and terrified (and usually black) person has 7 different cops with guns pointed at them, all screaming different orders. "Put your hands up!" "Don't fucking move!" "Get in the ground now!" "Show me your fucking hands or i'll cap your ass!" But hey, just comply, right?

And yet the officers have to display an infinite higher level of coolness under pressure because they are cops and the person is not. How high of a coolness under pressure do they have to display? Infinite? Until they themselves are shot and killed? Why aren’t you a cop displaying such incredible coolness under pressure? It’s a lot easier being an armchair QB than the person in the situation isn’t it?
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24 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:


And yet the officers have to display an infinite higher level of coolness under pressure because they are cops and the person is not. How high of a coolness under pressure do they have to display? Infinite? Until they themselves are shot and killed? Why aren’t you a cop displaying such incredible coolness under pressure? It’s a lot easier being an armchair QB than the person in the situation isn’t it?

How would they get shot if there is no gun?

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How would they get shot if there is no gun?

How do they know there’s no gun? What is the amount of time between when no gun is brandished and when a gun is brandished? How long does it take to brandish and fire a gun? One second? Half a second? Have there been instances where someone brandished a gun so fast that an officer was shot? I’ll give you a hint. Google that and you will find it happened two weeks ago and it’s on body camera and was a national story. An officer was shot as a result of it. It came out of nowhere.

I’m not saying these officers are innocent. I’m saying that jumping to this conclusion without fully understanding the seriousness of the situation is a stupid and reckless viewpoint. Are there bad cops who display bad judgement? Sure. But the pendulum of public opinion has swung way too far against officers.
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49 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

 


It’s so easy to watch a video after the fact when the threat has been neutralized. But what about the one second before that? It amazes me that so many people immediately jump to the conclusion that the officer was at fault when they themselves in the same situation would have shit their pants with fear.

 

video response:

in summation: Sean had a REAL reason to believe that the person/vehicle coming towards him wanted to kill him, and yet he still didn't pull the trigger, because he had enough to courage and bravery to do the job he signed up for. cops want to be treated like heroes, but act like cowards. if you want to be deemed a hero then act like one. if the job is too scary for you then don't sign up for it. 

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1 hour ago, Dbeasy said:


And yet the officers have to display an infinite higher level of coolness under pressure because they are cops and the person is not. How high of a coolness under pressure do they have to display? Infinite? Until they themselves are shot and killed? Why aren’t you a cop displaying such incredible coolness under pressure? It’s a lot easier being an armchair QB than the person in the situation isn’t it?

i wish that rocko were here to give the world's biggest YAWN to this ridiculous post full of inane hypotheticals that doesn't even approach addressing the actual specific situation that this thread is about. it's just the go-to response for the blue lives matter crowd. can't defend a video of cops killing someone? challenge the manhood of anyone questioning the cops and then blather on about how hard the job is, as if these guys were born into police servitude and didn't have a choice. come on. 

Edited by Goo Punch
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1 hour ago, Dbeasy said:

 

Was it neutralized? How do you know that? It wasn’t neutralized when he failed to comply with the simple request. It wasn’t neutralized when he sped away at high speed and put innocent lives at risk. Maybe it was neutralized when the police cars rammed it. Or maybe it wasn’t. You all decided already.

Speeding puts innocent lives at risk? So every person speeding needs to barricaded in by three police cars? This wasn’t a known murderer, was it? No. He was loitering. They are not saving lives but chasing him. That is the problem. Police think they are saving lives every second of every day so any order not followed is life or death. It’s not. 

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6 hours ago, slorch said:

Ignoring the car chase...is it convenience or obtusity?

 

Of all the bullshit the cops get wrong, and there is plenty of material-  the whiffing is mighty strong with some of the recent offerings.

 

Y'all need to stop acting as if the perps were just trying to go donate blood and sing songs at the old folks home until Johnny Law ventilated them.

In a way he did donate blood. 

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3 hours ago, Dbeasy said:


And yet the officers have to display an infinite higher level of coolness under pressure because they are cops and the person is not. How high of a coolness under pressure do they have to display? Infinite? Until they themselves are shot and killed? Why aren’t you a cop displaying such incredible coolness under pressure? It’s a lot easier being an armchair QB than the person in the situation isn’t it?

Yeah, it's part of the job description. Kinda like firefighters are required to run into a burning building. The difference is that firefighters will do their job whether or not you genuflect to their ego.

Cops aren't heroes. They're public servants and they suck at their job.

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Not nearly so clear cut. I think it would be justified at trial. 

There are use of force statutes in Chapter 9 of the Penal Code for peace officers related to fleeing felons, and he is one when he attempted to evade in a motor vehicle. In some situations force can be justified to terminate a pursuit that endangers others. As there should be  

Did you all notice the guy was accelerating heavily when he was boxed in? You can hear his tires squealing. That situation may not last long. That truck can push those cars out of the way and run over a cop. The use of deadly force would be justified when the guy is committing an aggravated assault. Accelerating a car at a person is most definitely an aggravated assault. 

Y’all may not like it but that’s the way it would play out in court. In fact I think a grand jury would no bill the cop..

 

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