
SL Xpress
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UT's next basketball coach - discussion/debate [Sean Miller Hired]
SL Xpress replied to alphahorn's topic in Basketball
How do you know we didn't make overtures? One of the things I love about Del Conte is we don't get into these get every coach we contact a pay raise sort of coaching searches. He identifies his target and then gets them. The gap between dismissal of the previous job holder and new hire is often record setting. But there's a lot of behind the scenes leg work being done to get to that point. Just because we don't see signs of Texas showing interest doesn't mean the interest wasn't shown. -
UT's next basketball coach - discussion/debate [Sean Miller Hired]
SL Xpress replied to alphahorn's topic in Basketball
The decision had been made before the Sweet 16 game was played. Once the team made it to the 2nd weekend after beating A&M the job was his. It didn't matter what the outcome of the Xavier game was. I guess the timeline we're talking about is important. But before a final decision had been made Calipari was part of the conversation. He was just going to be expensive in ways Miller never was going to be. I want to be clear. I would have dropped any interest in Texas basketball whatsoever and rooted for us to lose every game if we had hired Calipari. But Del Conte likes Calipari on a personal level. And regardless of my feelings about him as a person or a head coach, he has an incredible resume on paper. I'm just saying I don't agree with the declarative nature of the statement, while also admitting that Miller was a frontrunner in certain aspects. Mostly from the sense it would have been an easy deal to consummate. Price was right. He wanted to be at Texas. He has a decent history of success. -
UT's next basketball coach - discussion/debate [Sean Miller Hired]
SL Xpress replied to alphahorn's topic in Basketball
I liked Lloyd more, too. But one thing I'll say about Lloyd is he's not a salesman. He starts speaking and it's as exciting as watching paint dry. You'd think that how good of a basketball coach he is, is all that matters. But at Texas it's helpful to have a little huckster in you to bring out fans. Probably shouldn't be that way, but it is what it is. Always has been. -
UT's next basketball coach - discussion/debate [Sean Miller Hired]
SL Xpress replied to alphahorn's topic in Basketball
I don't know that Miller was Del Conte's first choice. Miller was openly excited about the opportunity if Texas went with someone other than Rodney Terry. Calipari had also shown some interest. There are some thoughts that Calipari was Del Conte's first choice. It doesn't matter since we went with Terry. But you're saying it declaratively here in ways I don't agree are accurate. -
UT's next basketball coach - discussion/debate [Sean Miller Hired]
SL Xpress replied to alphahorn's topic in Basketball
A ring is the ultimate goal, but those are unutterably difficult to achieve in men's basketball. Texas has one Final Four in the modern era. If we were to never again get to another Final Four, that would be disappointing for me. A string of Elite Eights would feel unsatisfying on some level. But if we can get to the Sweet 16 regularly, with not a lot of consistent first weekend flameouts, and then make it to a few Final Fours, if the head coach never won a national championship I would still think of him as an incredible success at Texas. -
I don't understand how that's the point. It feels like it's your point. I agree with that wholeheartedly. I support the firing of Beard wholeheartedly. In what way am I saying we shouldn't win with a little fucking dignity? I'm also saying our shit doesn't stink. You say we shouldn't be about winning at all costs. Okay. That's something I can agree with. But the bottom line is you better win. At the highest level. Rodney Terry would argue he won. David Pierce would argue he won. Garrido and Brown were both forced out before they were really ready and they'd argue they both won. Rick Barnes was fired. Getting results matters. A lot. And sometimes getting results means cutting some corners. We don't want to know about the corners getting cut, but they're getting cut. Sure, there are lines that can't be crossed, and getting arrested for choking your girlfriend is one of them. But there are plenty of players who have left Texas who felt mistreated. There are plenty of players who left Texas grateful for coaches who got the most out of them, even if at times it wasn't a whole lot of fun being a target. It's a matter of perspective. But I also don't think that was the point. The point was Beard is never going to have the opportunity he had at Texas, and he'll have to live with that. And my argument is he could very well have some amazing opportunities ahead of him in his career if he wins at a high enough level. And as a narcissist he's not going to look back with regret. That's not how he's wired.
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UT's next basketball coach - discussion/debate [Sean Miller Hired]
SL Xpress replied to alphahorn's topic in Basketball
I don't completely understand the poo pooing of this hire. Maybe expectations were too high regarding who Texas was going to be able to bring in? Sometimes there's a candidate that's such a perfect fit that there's no question they're the one. Chris Beard was that kind of hire. Folks like Roy Williams at North Carolina, Bill Self at Kansas, Calipari at Kentucky, Pitino at Louisville. But usually there are flaws with hires. How many people considered great basketball coaches were can't misses when they were hired? Hurley certainly wasn't. Oates wasn't (is he considered a "great" coach at this point without a ring? Dunno). Scheyer at Duke was a big risk. Indiana can't get their coaching hire right since Knight left decades ago. Look at UT's history. Abe Lemons wasn't a can't miss. Bob Wetlich was an assistant under Knight. Tom Penders was hired for a fun style coming from Rhode Island. Rick Barnes had some minor success at Providence and Clemson, but had already earned a reputation as not being able to win in the tournament - a rep he still enjoys today. Smart had a spectacular single season at VCU. Beard was as close to a sure thing as we've ever hired, but he's a UT grad in special circumstances. That's akin to UNC being able to hire Roy Williams from Kansas. Rodney Terry became the head coach because of circumstances more than career metrics. I'd argue Sean Miller has a better coaching resume than any head coach ever hired at Texas other than maybe Chris Beard, due to Beard having the national championship appearance. But in terms of numbers of Sweet 16s before coming to Texas, we've never had anyone of this caliber. I'm genuinely excited about this hire. I already know I'm going to be frustrated by his defense, because defense is more important to me than it is Miller, but oh well. He's going to run an explosive and exciting offense. He knows how to get people open for their shots. He has a vision for what he wants his basketball team to look like and he'll recruit to that vision. I've seen too many coaches get enamored with the talent they can bring to Austin rather than recruiting the talent that fits the scheme they're going to employ. That won't be Miller's issue. Miller has shown he's a very good coach. We'll see what he can do at 56. But I feel like he's hungry and wants a chance to compete at the highest level, and he didn't feel like he was going to get that chance at Xavier. And if he doesn't work out we'll move on and go get someone else. By then I imagine the college athletics landscape will have made some seismic shifts, so who knows what college basketball looks like at that point. But in the meantime I feel like it's an outstanding hire. It's not perfect, but very few hires are. If he has some early success with the exciting style of offense he runs and the level of financial support Texas basketball receives, I don't see any reason we can't return to the Texas basketball heydays of TJ Ford/Durant/Augustin/et al.. BTW, saying Texas basketball is a top 15 NIL school is hilarious to me. We have some very deep pockets who are emotionally connected to the success of the basketball program. It's not Phil Knight level of support for Oregon football, but it's very deep. And it's basketball specific.- 7585 replies
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UT's next basketball coach - discussion/debate [Sean Miller Hired]
SL Xpress replied to alphahorn's topic in Basketball
The way Gerry Hamilton phrased it is that international players are finding ways to get compensated through NIL. He called it being able to "navigate through those traffic cones." I have no idea exactly what that means, but I can make some educated guesses. -
I'd rather be on the journey we're on than keep Beard as the head coach after getting arrested for choking his girlfriend. You can't make that bullshit up, either. I'm glad we kept Terry as the interim coach after making the Elite Eight, because I feel like it was the right thing to do. I was firmly convinced he'd fail, and he has, but it hasn't been the 6 years it took to get rid of Smart, and so I'm grateful for that. I do not believe Sean Miller is as good of a basketball coach as Beard, but I think he's really good, and he has advantages as a coach (never mind the not choking his significant other, which also goes in the plus column) that Beard doesn't have, particularly on the offensive end and his history with international players. I believe we have a chance to win a national championship with him as our head coach. I certainly believe we can return to the Sweet 16 on a regular basis, and then we'll see what happens after that.
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We'll see. He's been at Ole Miss for two years and they're already achieving at a historical level while selling out their arena at a school that's never shown any sort of passion for basketball before. Again, I feel like you are joining others in being declarative about what the future will entail in ways that are not as obvious to me. But maybe you're right. I just find it too soon to say for sure, whereas you feel like the verdict is already out.
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You're right that I'm missing that point, because I feel like he specifically says Beard is never climbing back to those heights. And so are other people. And I'm disagreeing with that. The joy about being an abusive narcissist is that what happens is never your fault. Plenty of very successful people are and have been abusive. That's not anything new, by the way. I'm convinced it goes back to the dawn of our species. Certainly to when homo sapiens first successfully left Africa. It's hilarious to see the quality dismissed as if it's not constantly rewarded and a part of our fundamental make up as human beings. BTW, abusive narcissists can use vulnerability as a manipulative tool, so it's something they're often at least capable of in a convincing fashion, even if it's not real. Our standard is winning at an extremely high level. We don't actually know how the sausage gets made. And people who have their performance lifted to levels they'd never otherwise achieve because of abusive behavior can become grateful for it. It's all well and good to say at UT we're above all that, but it's not actually true. Beard would still be the head coach at UT - and I'd be glad for it - if he'd made very simple decisions that prevented him from getting arrested that night. And he'd still be abusive in all kinds of different ways. There's an attitude that our shit doesn't stink in your post that I fundamentally disagree with. Our shit still stinks. We have standards, and I'm grateful for it, but there's more latitude within those standards than I think you're giving. Those standards still matter to me. But I find your halo fitting really tight in ways that I don't feel UT athletics actually achieves in reality.
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Is that what I'm doing? Enjoying living in that world? I'm saying it's a possibility in ways that you're dismissing. I'm hoping he falls on his face, and I do believe that's a possibility, too. But he's a very good basketball coach with a compelling personality who has shown an ability to galvanize fan bases. What does it win me if I'm right? If there's anything I've learned, is that being right better be its own reward, because it certainly has very little outside of that. Beyond that, though, you are way off base in how you view abusive people and how they're rewarded in our society.
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I couldn't disagree more. Being a drunk at work around young people doesn't get the same kind of exoneration you're implying. Someone who is a functional alcoholic but keeps their shit together on the job gets a lot of forgiveness. Sarkisian isn't back at a head job just because he won at a high level. Sarkisian is back at a head job because he transformed who he is in terms of how he deals with his addiction to alcohol. If tomorrow he showed up drunk at a practice it's my opinion he'd be fired for cause shortly thereafter. Maybe not. He'd probably need to show a pattern of behavior, rather than just a one time thing. But maybe. It is morally abhorrent to come to work supervising 18 to 22 year olds completely drunk, especially when no one is really all that surprised about it. It's simply crossing another line in already exhibited behavior. You are extremely naive IMO about how much being abusive to the people around us is rewarded in our society. You saying it's incongruent with virtually any and all positions of leadership is almost unfathomably laughable. I'm not even sure what planet you live on. Did you play on any championship level sports teams? At any level? Do you have any idea how many of them are led by abusive people? How many ultra successful organizations are led by abusive people? It's a ton. I'm not saying it's what we should aspire to as a species, but it's reality. The reason why it's rewarded is because it works. People who are abusive often compel a higher level of productivity versus people who aren't. And at the end of the day winning - in whatever form that takes - is a fundamental aspect of our survival in all sorts of ways. I'm going to try to avoid going cloak room here, but I'll imply that you can look at the leadership at all levels of our society and see how much being abusive is rewarded.
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And it's not just their success on the court. He's doing to their fan base exactly what he did at Tech and Texas. It's what he does. That's going to be extremely appealing at all kinds of places. This idea he's going to be untouchable because of dropped domestic abuse charges from years ago is extremely myopic, IMO.
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Well, it's an alleged domestic abuser whose victim dropped the charges and later got back together with him (which is such a horrible miscalculation of judgement on all sides). No one questions what happened at Baylor. There are questions over how directly involved Art Briles was, but as the head coach, few people are questioning his responsibility regardless (personally, I believe he was balls deep in the cover ups and creation of the overall culture in order to win). I've found my piece of shit metric has lowered over the years. I was all in on Saban being Mack Brown's replacement even though I knew Saban was a cheating son of a bitch who was IMO morally reprehensible in terms of how he approached recruiting. I still find non committable offers to be something of an abortion. But I really really wanted to win and he was the surest thing ever. But I had HUGE problems when Tom Herman even brought in someone from Briles's staff to be a behind the scenes support person. The situation at Baylor was beyond the pale. I'm glad Beard was fired. I feel betrayed as a fan by his personal decision making that led to him being arrested in the first place. I want to also point out that if anyone judged my personal decision making the way I'm judging Beard I would fall far short of any kind of ideal as well. I don't think it's going to be the albatross around his neck for the rest of his career some of the rest of you seem to, IF he wins at the level he's capable of.
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I don't see UNC being an option. They can't seem to get over having a UNC tie in. And they're just as snooty as Texas is about certain optics. But if he wins at Ole Miss the way he's capable of, someone is going to come calling. I hope it all goes south, either at Ole Miss or his next destination, but that doesn't mean it's going to happen. My preference is that he takes Gillispie's job at Tarleton State.
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Calipari was underperforming at Kentucky. I thoroughly enjoyed every minute of it. I would have been extremely upset as a Kentucky fan at what the team had been doing under him over the last few years. I think it's fair to say it will be an extreme challenge to have a long career as the men's basketball coach at Kentucky. Ask David Pierce about the standards of being the head coach for UT baseball, and I was all in favor of him being replaced. You have to win at the highest levels at Kentucky, and then do it again year after year. But if you make the Sweet 16 they're not going to fire you, even at Kentucky. Calipari's early exits made him want to get out of there. I hope he falls on his face at Arkansas, too. This year's run is creating severe issues for me. It's Calipari, AND it's Arkansas. Having them in the Sweet 16 completely sucks.
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It's an example. They have their guy until he's not any more. Calipari was their guy until he wasn't. It doesn't have to be Kentucky. Just somewhere a little more high profile than Oxford. But Kentucky chases off coaches who win national championships, so nothing you say will make me believe Mark Pope is guaranteed to retire there.
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We'll see what happens. Those are a lot of declaratives for a future I find more uncertain than you. I hope you're right, but the future has yet to be written. Winning sure makes people overlook a lot of things. Hasn't worked for Art Briles, and Bobby Petrino is still trying to get back to a top job, but Beard already has Ole Miss doing things they've never done before. He has the whole Rebel fan base galvanized around basketball in a way they never have been before. Because that's what he does. And basketball is different than football, with different dynamics. It's more transactional than it ever has been, but it's always been transactional in a way that football wasn't. You're also not looking at a massive 100 person roster, so while the individual players can make more, the overall payroll simply isn't the same. It's my opinion Kentucky is going to be able to compete in basketball in ways they're never going to be able to in football. More NIL dollars helps, but you don't have to be Oregon/Ohio State/Texas to fill your roster with top athletes the way you do in football. I'll also say that it's even more important to be skilled in roster construction in basketball than in football, just because of the amount of players involved (it's also important in football, though). Knowing who can be the right kind of role player on a 7 or 8 man rotation is way more important than in football. Having a vision for what kind of team you're going to build, and then finding the right pieces for that vision, is more important in many cases than being able to field the very best talent. Especially when the best talent leaves after a year. The 3 pointer is also an equalizer in basketball that doesn't have an equivalent in other sports. The bottom line is I hope Beard implodes and his career plummets like a meteor. But I'm not as convinced that's his future as much as you are. We'll see.
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The petty sports fan in me hopes that's the case. My worst case scenario - and I think it's an entirely possible one - is that he overachieves at Ole Miss, gets a job at a blueblood school like Kentucky, goes on to win multiple national championships, and what happened at Texas ends up being part of a redemptive story, much like being fired for being drunk at football practice as the head coach, caused Sarkisian to get fired from his dream job. The best side of me hopes for redemptive arcs for all of us. But the redemptive side of me is not posting on the Texas basketball message boards. I think it's easy to back seat drive. I'm quite adept at it. A big part of the issue is that she acted ridiculous on the trip to Madison Square Garden to the point plenty of people took Beard aside to tell him her behavior was unacceptable and he'd have to do something about it. That's why he was living/sleeping in the guest bedroom. She knew how to press his buttons. She got him worked up. He knew what she was doing so he recorded the conversation. She escalated and called the police. He had no concerns about it and felt like he'd be able to talk to them about the situation to deescalate. She told the police he grabbed her around the throat which was an immediate trip to the local jail. Whether that actually occurred or whether that was partially engineered by the police I don't think it's clear, but when someone in an organization has a tool that they think can help solve situations they're going to use it, even if at times it ends up being an abuse of it. That's not unique to law enforcement. Once he was arrested the priority became not having it go to trial, NOT appeasing UT about keeping his job. He probably thought he could do both. But wherever there was a conflict between the two he chose the advice of his lawyer over requests from Texas. In the end, it doesn't matter. He was arrested for choking his girlfriend, whether it happened or not. How many other head basketball coaches are getting arrested for choking their girlfriends every year? You simply can't have that happen to you at UT. You just can't. You can be an assistant. You can be a player. But you can't be the head coach of one of the major revenue sports and expect to keep your job in that situation. The optics aren't going to allow for it. There were a million and one decisions that led to the police appearing at his door to follow up on his girlfriend's phone call. A different decision anywhere along the line that didn't create the situation where he was answering the door trying to explain the circumstances that led to the phone call would have kept him in his job. But that's not where we are and that's just how it is.
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