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CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk


Mrs Whiggins

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14 hours ago, Bullneck said:

Stupid is as stupid does.

Biden in his speech said 75% of the population has received at least one dose of the vaccine. Of the 25% who are unvaccinated a decent % knowingly or unknowingly have antibodies from prior infection. 

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2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Also, until I see a concerted effort to direct unused vaccines from the US to other countries, I'm not going to worry about a run on things that stand a good chance of being thrown away.

What is the shelf life for these vaccines when kept at whatever cold storage is necessary?  If vaccines can feasibly be used more effectively around the world I'm all in favor of getting doses where they'll be used.  Doses going bad here or there do no one any good, whether they are the first, second, or third.

 

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4 minutes ago, lmao said:

Biden in his speech said 75% of the population has received at least one dose of the vaccine. Of the 25% who are unvaccinated a decent % knowingly or unknowingly have antibodies from prior infection. 

Why didn't you say something earlier!? I'll call the ICUs and let them know that everything's cool.

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9 minutes ago, lmao said:

Biden in his speech said 75% of the population has received at least one dose of the vaccine. 

Nope.  It's 75% of the adult population.  Approximately 75% of Americans are 18 YO or older, so that would translate to 56% of the total American population.

 

Quote

Of the 25% who are unvaccinated a decent % knowingly or unknowingly have antibodies from prior infection. 

Most likely a bit less than half of them, so maybe another 12%, giving us 68% of Americans with some degree of protection.  Again, one dose or more, so that includes J&J (which appears to be the least effective vaccine), but beyond that some of the 68% would not be fully vaccinated via Pfizer or Moderna.  I don't have those data handy.

Now comprehend the fact that science seems to indicate the threshold for herd immunity against delta is quite high, in the range of 90%, so we're a long way away.

Edited by jimmyjazz
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29 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

What is the shelf life for these vaccines when kept at whatever cold storage is necessary?  If vaccines can feasibly be used more effectively around the world I'm all in favor of getting doses where they'll be used.  Doses going bad here or there do no one any good, whether they are the first, second, or third.

 

This. If we can prevent version Epsilon or whatever from spinning up in India or Africa or or some other place with a large population and low vaccination rates, I'm in favor of getting as many shots in arms as possible wherever possible. 

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So I just found out today why my Dad would only get the J&J vaccine. Apparently the Pfizer and moderna vaccines cause major organ damage and fauci is well aware of this fact. Not to worry though, Ayn Rand is on the case. So if you got Pfizer or moderna, Oh well, too late now. 
 

It’s not easy being me sometimes. 

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12 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

So I just found out today why my Dad would only get the J&J vaccine. Apparently the Pfizer and moderna vaccines cause major organ damage and fauci is well aware of this fact. Not to worry though, Ayn Rand is on the case. So if you got Pfizer or moderna, Oh well, too late now. 
 

It’s not easy being me sometimes. 

Of course.  You have to trust the company that’s been making your shampoo for 40 years!

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1 minute ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Of course.  You have to trust the company that’s been making your shampoo for 40 years!

No more tears!

Actually that was a total lie. Or maybe my eyes are just sensitive. 
 

Also didn’t they supposedly have some satanic symbol in their logo or was that some other company. Is nobody worried about Satan anymore? 

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36 minutes ago, Captainant said:

eat a bag of donkey dicks. America has done measurably worse at containing COVID and minimizing the number of per-capita deaths compared to other first world countries. Your boy trump has been at the spearhead of minimizing the virus and building a culture war around defying public health practices like vaccination and facemask usage. It ain't china that's killing Americans. It's our own goddamn stupidity.

I agree that we ("Americans") have been one of our own worst enemies once the fire was started, but I'll never not be confused with how quick and easy some of you people want to let CCP off the hook and eat all the culpability. While hyperbolic, the intent was to "never forget" the bull crap CCP and how they brought this to our doorstep.

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2 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

No more tears!

Actually that was a total lie. Or maybe my eyes are just sensitive. 
 

Also didn’t they supposedly have some satanic symbol in their logo or was that some other company. Is nobody worried about Satan anymore? 

You're thinking Proctor & Gamble.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/procter-gamble-satan-conspiracy-theory

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7 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

No more tears!

Actually that was a total lie. Or maybe my eyes are just sensitive. 
 

Also didn’t they supposedly have some satanic symbol in their logo or was that some other company. Is nobody worried about Satan anymore? 

 

2 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Wasn't there a rumor in the 80s that J&J was owned by the Moonies or something equally ridiculous?

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Just now, JimmyJames said:

Yep that’s it.

Just imagine if they came out with a vaccine.  It’s the mark of the devil! 

The Trumper fundies are one step ahead of you. One of the Trumpers I haven't blocked on social media is big mad about the possible mandate and was lamenting that he would have to find a new job because he wouldn't "Wear the mark of the beast". 

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1 minute ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

 

Wasn't there a rumor in the 80s that J&J was owned by the Moonies or something equally ridiculous?

I don't remember that one. The P&G one caused my teenage Southern Baptist tainted brain to hesitate a bit on getting that moon watch.

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2 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

The Trumper fundies are one step ahead of you. One of the Trumpers I haven't blocked on social media is big mad about the possible mandate and was lamenting that he would have to find a new job because he wouldn't "Wear the mark of the beast". 

Looks like Mack brown was right about social media, sorry to say. 

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2 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I don't remember that one. The P&G one caused my teenage Southern Baptist tainted brain to hesitate a bit on getting that moon watch.

I think I'm confusing it with the P&G controversy. They had a moon in their logo, right? All part of the crazy conspiracy theories of the 80s. 

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6 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

The Trumper fundies are one step ahead of you. One of the Trumpers I haven't blocked on social media is big mad about the possible mandate and was lamenting that he would have to find a new job because he wouldn't "Wear the mark of the beast". 

And he announced that on the tracking device he voluntarily carries everywhere?

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what's going to happen when the pandemic is over and all these ladies have been chanting "my body, my choice" for a few years when it is applicable to . . . uh . . . some other political topic?  my guess is they'll all just say, "no, it's entirely consistent. i was chanting 'my body my choice.' that has nothing to do with whether i get to choose for your body.  that is also my choice."

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16 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

I think I'm confusing it with the P&G controversy. They had a moon in their logo, right? All part of the crazy conspiracy theories of the 80s. 

It’s pretty hilarious how big fear of “Satanism” was in the 80s until you actually look at some of the real harm that irrational fear ultimately caused. Also it was a huge distraction from what was really going on which was a bunch of psychopaths going around killing women, children and gay dudes with impunity. 

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1 hour ago, DonkeyCigars said:

FIFY

So let me make sure I'm understanding your argument.  Your argument is that this was a virus unleashed on the world by China and that it is their fault it has killed ~677K people in the US so far.  Am I reading that right?  Or are you saying that China has actually had that many people die but they are underreporting their own deaths?  There's a discussion to be had here, but I don't know which discussion before understanding what you are getting at.  Can you clarify so that we can talk about whichever one it is?

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7 minutes ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

So let me make sure I'm understanding your argument.  Your argument is that this was a virus unleashed on the world by China and that it is their fault it has killed ~677K people in the US so far.  Am I reading that right?  Or are you saying that China has actually had that many people die but they are underreporting their own deaths?  There's a discussion to be had here, but I don't know which discussion before understanding what you are getting at.  Can you clarify so that we can talk about whichever one it is?

My argument is that China is the arsonist that started the fire across the globe and in America. America is of course guilty of mismanaging the conflagration here at home which has ultimately resulted in 677k domestic deaths. How you want to slice and dice the accountability is up to you. I was being hyperbolic in setting all the deaths at the feet of CCP, as stated, as a jarring reminder to those who would ignore or dismiss CCP's culpability in this worldwide pandemic.

Edited by DonkeyCigars
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40 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

My argument is that China is the arsonist that started the fire across the globe and in America. America is of course guilty of mismanaging the conflagration here at home which has ultimately resulted in 677k domestic deaths. How you want to slice and dice the accountability is up to you. I was being hyperbolic in setting all the deaths at the feet of CCP, as stated, as a jarring reminder to those who would ignore or dismiss CCP's culpability in this worldwide pandemic.

 

let us also not forget the culpability of the USRP in the 677k deaths here at home

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4 minutes ago, elfenix said:

 

let us also not forget the culpability of the USRP in the 677k deaths here at home

Fair. There are lots of fingerprints on the murder weapon. Let's just not forget about the Chinese ones when divvying out anger, resentment, and pain. I feel like too many people are politically dismissive under the guise "What good is it to fret about how the Chinese started this even if they are our biggest global and geopolitical enemy not named Russia!"

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The 18 authors include Philip Krause and Marion Gruber, F.D.A. scientists who resigned from the agency, at least in part because they disagreed with the Biden administration’s push for boosters before federal scientists could review the evidence and make recommendations.

 

I really wonder how Krause and Gruber stood by last years while an Administration that handled this like monkey's flinging shit at each other was in charge but now take such umbrage with the current one being too aggressive?

As for Donkey's Arson/China analogy.....   When an arsonist starts a fire in the forest, do we fight it and try to contain it from spreading or just whine that the fire started?  Because that's what Republicans want to do.

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Just now, Macanudo said:

As for Donkey's Arson/China analogy.....   When an arsonist starts a fire in the forest, do we fight it and try to contain it from spreading or just whine that the fire started?  Because that's what Republicans want to do.

This is common fucking sense and should not have to be extrapolated for anyone. Trump admin negligence/GQP toadying led to untold numbers of unnecessary deaths and human suffering here in the US. 

Marisa Tomei Movie GIF

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5 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

The 18 authors include Philip Krause and Marion Gruber, F.D.A. scientists who resigned from the agency, at least in part because they disagreed with the Biden administration’s push for boosters before federal scientists could review the evidence and make recommendations.

 

I really wonder how Krause and Gruber stood by last years while an Administration that handled this like monkey's flinging shit at each other was in charge but now take such umbrage with the current one being too aggressive?

As for Donkey's Arson/China analogy.....   When an arsonist starts a fire in the forest, do we fight it and try to contain it from spreading or just whine that the fire started?  Because that's what Republicans want to do.

they're doing way more than that. they're starting the fire, burning the bridges across town, and slashing the tires to the firetrucks. we're basically fighting a forest fire with buckets

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7 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Fair. There are lots of fingerprints on the murder weapon. Let's just not forget about the Chinese ones when divvying out anger, resentment, and pain. I feel like too many people are politically dismissive under the guise "What good is it to fret about how the Chinese started this even if they are our biggest global and geopolitical enemy not named Russia!"

You're more than welcome to blame the Chinese Communist Party up to Trump's phone call with Xi on February 7, 2020. Everything after that, not so much. We still had time to act, and Trump chose not to.

President Donald Trump acknowledged the “deadly” nature of the coronavirus earlier this year in a series of recorded interviews with The Washington Post’s Bob Woodward, even as Trump publicly sought to dismiss the disease’s threat to Americans.

Recounting a conversation with Chinese President Xi Jinping, Trump told Woodward on Feb. 7 that the coronavirus is “more deadly than your, you know, your — even your strenuous flus.”

“This is more deadly,” he said. “This is five per — you know, this is 5 percent versus 1 percent and less than 1 percent, you know. So, this is deadly stuff.”

Woodward conducted 18 on-the-record interviews with the president between last December and July to gather material for the veteran journalist’s forthcoming book on the Trump White House.

Excerpts of those conversations were published Wednesday by the Post, including an exchange between Trump and Woodward in which the president revealed he was eager to downplay the coronavirus outbreak so as not to alarm Americans.

“I wanted to always play it down. I still like playing it down,” Trump said on March 19. “Because I don’t want to create a panic.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/09/trump-coronavirus-deadly-downplayed-risk-410796

 

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1 minute ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

they're doing way more than that. they're starting the fire, burning the bridges across town, and slashing the tires to the firetrucks. we're basically fighting a forest fire with buckets

So a disease that started in China MONTHS ago and is spreading like crazy here now because of the actions/inactions of Americans is China's fault how?   American politicians and American pundits and American media outlets are sabotaging us now.   Not the Chinese, you thick-headed doofus.

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1 minute ago, Macanudo said:

The 18 authors include Philip Krause and Marion Gruber, F.D.A. scientists who resigned from the agency, at least in part because they disagreed with the Biden administration’s push for boosters before federal scientists could review the evidence and make recommendations.

 

I really wonder how Krause and Gruber stood by last years while an Administration that handled this like monkey's flinging shit at each other was in charge but now take such umbrage with the current one being too aggressive?

As for Donkey's Arson/China analogy.....   When an arsonist starts a fire in the forest, do we fight it and try to contain it from spreading or just whine that the fire started?  Because that's what Republicans want to do.

You do both in parallel, when the fire rages for 18 months especially. And especially if we can't beat the arsonist 1 v 1 and that arsonist is cooking up more plans to ruin and set fire to other areas in advancement of geographic and geopolitical power at our direct expense.

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1 minute ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

they're doing way more than that. they're starting the fire, burning the bridges across town, and slashing the tires to the firetrucks. we're basically fighting a forest fire with buckets

You forgot the part where they are CONTINUING with a solid 1-2 punch strategy of 1) insisting that there really isn't a fire, it's all a hoax cooked up for population control or some bullshit, and 2) the ACTUAL way to fight fires isn't with water, but with individual Heinz ketchup packets, squeezed directly onto the flames.  In fact, water makes fire burn WORSE, and if you propose using water, you are part of an evil cabal suppressing the truth about Heinz ketchup packets for personal gain and to fulfill an evil (((agenda))).

One of our two main political parties is literally -- I mean, falls right on top of the definition -- FUCKING INSANE.

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Just now, Macanudo said:

So a disease that started in China MONTHS ago and is spreading like crazy here now because of the actions/inactions of Americans is China's fault how?   American politicians and American pundits and American media outlets are sabotaging us now.   Not the Chinese, you thick-headed doofus.

you sure you quoted the correct post? I was agreeing with you and adding extra layers. and I know I'm a thick-headed doofus, but you don't need to tell everyone

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1 minute ago, Macanudo said:

So a disease that started in China MONTHS ago and is spreading like crazy here now because of the actions/inactions of Americans is China's fault how?   American politicians and American pundits and American media outlets are sabotaging us now.   Not the Chinese, you thick-headed doofus.

You missed the post that agreed that the blame should be divvied up accordingly to a variety of stakeholders and not just CCP (or Americans). 

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1 minute ago, DonkeyCigars said:

You do both in parallel, when the fire rages for 18 months especially. And especially if we can't beat the arsonist 1 v 1 and that arsonist is cooking up more plans to ruin and set fire to other areas in advancement of geographic and geopolitical power at our direct expense.

I’m in. Let’s draw up the battle plans.  I propose strict sanctions including going pee pee in their coke. 

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14 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

The 18 authors include Philip Krause and Marion Gruber, F.D.A. scientists who resigned from the agency, at least in part because they disagreed with the Biden administration’s push for boosters before federal scientists could review the evidence and make recommendations.

 

I really wonder how Krause and Gruber stood by last years while an Administration that handled this like monkey's flinging shit at each other was in charge but now take such umbrage with the current one being too aggressive?

Yeah, I would like some more background info on those 2.  There have been countless missteps and fuckups over the last year and a half, but it's this argument that is too much for them to take?  Seems rather strange.

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5 minutes ago, bolverk said:

You're more than welcome to blame the Chinese Communist Party up to Trump's phone call with Xi on February 7, 2020. Everything after that, not so much. We still had time to act, and Trump chose not to.

President Donald Trump acknowledged the “deadly” nature of the coronavirus earlier this year in a series of recorded interviews with The Washington Post’s Bob Woodward, even as Trump publicly sought to dismiss the disease’s threat to Americans.

Recounting a conversation with Chinese President Xi Jinping, Trump told Woodward on Feb. 7 that the coronavirus is “more deadly than your, you know, your — even your strenuous flus.”

“This is more deadly,” he said. “This is five per — you know, this is 5 percent versus 1 percent and less than 1 percent, you know. So, this is deadly stuff.”

Woodward conducted 18 on-the-record interviews with the president between last December and July to gather material for the veteran journalist’s forthcoming book on the Trump White House.

Excerpts of those conversations were published Wednesday by the Post, including an exchange between Trump and Woodward in which the president revealed he was eager to downplay the coronavirus outbreak so as not to alarm Americans.

“I wanted to always play it down. I still like playing it down,” Trump said on March 19. “Because I don’t want to create a panic.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/09/trump-coronavirus-deadly-downplayed-risk-410796

 

I agree 100% with everything you said in this post. 

Where I'm getting in trouble with people here is that some of you are refusing to acknowledge CCP's role prior to 2/7/2020, as you time boxed, and/or pretending that it's irrelevant or not a part of the perpetrators that need to be prosecuted in the court of public and political opinion. 

My whole point in the cheeky "FIFY" was to remind you people that the CCP started this mess. What we don't know is if they started it knowing how fragile and divided and balkanized we are as a country and the fracturing and death was intentional or just a lucky result for the Chinese. Regardless, Americans have been our own worst enemies the last 18 months once the powder keg was lit. I think we are all in agreement there.

TL;DR: My only point and ask is let's not forget to assign the Chinese a slice of the blame pie chart.

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6 minutes ago, hookemATL said:

You still won’t say Trump/Republicans. 

Trump/Republicans own some blame for making COVID-19 worse domestically than it could have been, in hindsight. I'm not running away from that truth and don't know why you think I am.

Edited by DonkeyCigars
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1 minute ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I agree 100% with everything you said in this post. 

Where I'm getting in trouble with people here is that some of you are refusing to acknowledge CCP's role prior to 2/7/2020, as you time boxed, and/or pretending that it's irrelevant or not a part of the perpetrators that need to be prosecuted in the court of public and political opinion. 

My whole point in the cheeky "FIFY" was to remind you people that the CCP started this mess. What we don't know is if they started it knowing how fragile and divided and balkanized we are as a country and the fracturing and death was intentional or just a lucky result for the Chinese. Regardless, Americans have been our own worst enemies the last 18 months once the powder keg was lit. I think we are all in agreement there.

TL;DR: My only point and ask is let's not forget to assign the Chinese a slice of the blame pie chart.

No one's doing that. We're just focusing on the millions of Americans intentionally adding kindling to the active fire, versus the guy with the match 18 months ago.

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