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2020 Presidential Election -- Biden v Trump: Sleepy Joe vs Dopey Don [Results begin on page 409]


Patrick Bateman

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5 minutes ago, Scheiss Meister said:

My concern is that one of the court cases, whether it has merit or not, gets to the Supreme Court, and they vote on party lines to throw the election to Trump.  There was a reason that Trump was in a hurry to get the Stepford wife on the court.

Courses without merit don't get to the Supreme Court, even if the President asks really, really nicely.

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13 minutes ago, Scheiss Meister said:

My concern is that one of the court cases, whether it has merit or not, gets to the Supreme Court, and they vote on party lines to throw the election to Trump.  There was a reason that Trump was in a hurry to get the Stepford wife on the court.

As I think the most pessimistic-about-the-Supreme Court lawyer here on Surly, I can tell you there's like a 99.9% chance that concern is gone. That's not to say that 5 (or 6) conservative justices wouldn't steal an election from the GOP in the right scenario, but this is pretty damned far from the right scenario. They'd want something like the 2000 Florida recount with an extremely close race in one state that had a bunch of fucked up ballot issues, not an insurmountable lead spread across 4 different states, with only one of those having anything resembling a conceivable reason to throw out certain votes (and those votes were separated before the count and Biden's lead in PA is big enough that they don't matter). 

Also, Trump's legal team is nothing but clowns. It's basically a 50/50 guess whether any particular lawsuit these guys file even states a claim for which legal relief can be granted. 

Edited by wildcat09
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3 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

The problem Trump and the GOP have is that unlike Florida in 2000 - its not just one county in one state.  Trump would need the Supreme Court to toss out election results in three states.  And even if they 'tossed' those state results (and with it the 47 electoral votes for PA, AZ, and GA) it could be argued that Biden would only need to win the majority (246) of the rest of the 491 electoral votes.  Which he would have.

Even a corrupt Supreme Court isn't overturning this election.

 

The reason Trump (but really McConnell) was in such a hurry to get the Stepford wife on the court was because there was a real fear that it might come down to just one state (PA) and just a few votes like Florida in 2000.  Id didn't.  This vote isn't close.  A court isn't going to be able to steal it.

 

I hope that this is how it plays out, and it is how it should play out.  But what convention, legal or otherwise, have Trump and Co. respected to this point?

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9 hours ago, Tuco said:

It’s an elected position. He won as a Republican. I would be more disturbed if he didn’t acknowledge his bias. And it provides context for the importance to having loyalty to the system over loyalty to a political preference.

Agreed. People are misinterpreting what he said. He's a Republican and didn't like the fact that the Republican lost in his state. 

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19 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

They can't win these cases.  They just want to sow enough doubt and misinformation that states don't certify their votes, and the House decides the "election."  We're watching an attempted coup in real time.  

Whether they'll be successful is another story, but either way they're taking a sledgehammer to our democracy.

This. It’s hilarious and scary that people keep underestimating Trump, but they do. “He won’t win in the courts!” Okay, but have you seen what he’s trying to do with the electors and the state certifications? 

Hopefully it won’t work. But the fact that Trump is actually trying it should be a huge wake-up call.

That the GOP leaders are not stepping in to quash this immediately is terrifying. This will be our reality going forward. Our politics are so fractured and polarized that leaders on the right no longer need respect the rule of law or norms. Their only mandate is “Win, by any means necessary.” I fear every election from now on will pose a constitutional crisis.

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What everyone needs to be concerned about are the conditions that are currently allowing this to happen. From where I'm sitting, the country seems to be sitting on the knife edge of being lost. None of the people that are throwing tantrums right now are going to change their minds when Biden makes it through to the other side on 1/20/21. The Republicans are going to obstruct and throw shit around and send their base into a frenzy and we'll be here again in four years from now, if we're lucky. 

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1 minute ago, Ted Lange said:

I think the main reason Mitch rushed through Barrett is because he knew Trump was gonna lose, not election related lawsuits. 

Yes - I wasn't clear - Trump wanted her appointed because he thought he needed her to protect his election.  Mitch needed her to finish off his 'pack the courts' plan before Biden became president.  

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4 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

 Their only mandate is “Win, by any means necessary.” I fear every election from now on will pose a constitutional crisis.

On 537 votes (HBO), Roger Stone and one other person whose name escapes me essentially said this has been their goal from the get go. That was two decades ago. Nothing has changed other than the transparency and the public's obliviousness to it as long as their team wins.

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26 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

This will get smacked down like everything he does in court (or against all available apparent optics right now the Trumpsters will provide the receipts for what they are alleging)

This is the thing that bugs me the post about all of this - why aren't any of my Trumper friends asking this very question? If the evidence is so overwhelming, then why hasn't it appeared in any case they've submitted to this point? They are just taking Trump's word at face value and whatever the conservative bloggers come up with as gospel. 

I've been wanting to ask them about this, but since they all ran off to Pardner or whatever the hell it is I haven't had the chance. Oh well.

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1 minute ago, The Dog said:

This is the thing that bugs me the post about all of this - why aren't any of my Trumper friends asking this very question? If the evidence is so overwhelming, then why hasn't it appeared in any case they've submitted to this point? They are just taking Trump's word at face value and whatever the conservative bloggers come up with as gospel. 

I've been wanting to ask them about this, but since they all ran off to Pardner or whatever the hell it is I haven't had the chance. Oh well.

Trumpers believe the deep state courts are holding all this down 

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1 minute ago, ConferenceRoom said:

What everyone needs to be concerned about are the conditions that are currently allowing this to happen. From where I'm sitting, the country seems to be sitting on the knife edge of being lost. None of the people that are throwing tantrums right now are going to change their minds when Biden makes it through to the other side on 1/20/21. The Republicans are going to obstruct and throw shit around and send their base into a frenzy and we'll be here again in four years from now, if we're lucky. 

Were you a "Donald Trump isn't MY PRESIDENT" idiot the first few months after the election? What happened to those idiots when they realized that Donald Trump was actually THEIR PRESIDENT? Reality sets in for everyone, it may take a few hours, days, weeks, and for the stubborn maybe even a few months. There is no way in 2022 people will be claiming that Joe Biden is not the President of the United States (or someone in his line of succession). Facts are easy to dispute before the end of the game. 

Losing 72-3 with 3 minutes left in the fourth quarter doesn't mean you have lost the game, even though losing is almost certain. Having lost 72-3 when the clock hits 00:00 at the end of the fourth quarter and heading back to the locker room. 

Easier to understand losing 72-3. Now imagine WINNING with 1 second left in the 4th quarter up by 2 and having a field goal kicked by the other team that started way left, but arcs back in and sails through the center of the uprights. No time left on the clock, game is over. The realization that you have just lost for some doesn't set in immediately, it sets in minutes, sometimes hours, and for the really weak minded sometimes days later before they come to terms with the loss. The people that take days to get over a loss are at a significant disadvantage for the game next saturday/sunday/whenever because they spent too much time reflecting/replaying/figuring out how they couldn't steer the ball in the air.

Trump, the GOP and the entire Republican Party lost by 10 and are bitching about a touchdown that got called back in the 3rd quarter and if they would have scored it they would have won, even though touchdowns are only worth 6 and it was only 1 touchdown and it was in the 3rd quarter. These people you will never convince that they lost, but you can convince them they ran out of time! (lulz aggy joke from the aggie)

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6 minutes ago, ConferenceRoom said:

What everyone needs to be concerned about are the conditions that are currently allowing this to happen. From where I'm sitting, the country seems to be sitting on the knife edge of being lost. None of the people that are throwing tantrums right now are going to change their minds when Biden makes it through to the other side on 1/20/21. The Republicans are going to obstruct and throw shit around and send their base into a frenzy and we'll be here again in four years from now, if we're lucky. 

That's been the concern here all along. Welcome to the ledge! Have a drink. I've switched from a Moscow Mule to a Lime Rickey (in honor of its DC origins) but depending upon how things go, a Blow My Skull Off may be how the day ends.

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7 minutes ago, The Dog said:

This is the thing that bugs me the post about all of this - why aren't any of my Trumper friends asking this very question? If the evidence is so overwhelming, then why hasn't it appeared in any case they've submitted to this point? They are just taking Trump's word at face value and whatever the conservative bloggers come up with as gospel. 

I've been wanting to ask them about this, but since they all ran off to Pardner or whatever the hell it is I haven't had the chance. Oh well.

The thing that troubles me the most about this situation is the willingness of Republicans to go along with Trump in this. He is destined to lose in court.  Are they willing to risk civil unrest for 2 senate seats in Georgia?  Or are they going along because they have no intention of giving up power and are willing to whatever is necessary to keep it?  This country is a powder keg right now and the Republicans are chain smoking and throwing their butts at it one after the other.  With each passing day, I lose a little more hope that this is going to be settled peacefully.

Edited by kevwun
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4 minutes ago, immamac said:

Were you a "Donald Trump isn't MY PRESIDENT" idiot the first few months after the election? What happened to those idiots when they realized that Donald Trump was actually THEIR PRESIDENT? Reality sets in for everyone, it may take a few hours, days, weeks, and for the stubborn maybe even a few months. There is no way in 2022 people will be claiming that Joe Biden is not the President of the United States (or someone in his line of succession). Facts are easy to dispute before the end of the game. 

Losing 72-3 with 3 minutes left in the fourth quarter doesn't mean you have lost the game, even though losing is almost certain. Having lost 72-3 when the clock hits 00:00 at the end of the fourth quarter and heading back to the locker room. 

Easier to understand losing 72-3. Now imagine WINNING with 1 second left in the 4th quarter up by 2 and having a field goal kicked by the other team that started way left, but arcs back in and sails through the center of the uprights. No time left on the clock, game is over. The realization that you have just lost for some doesn't set in immediately, it sets in minutes, sometimes hours, and for the really weak minded sometimes days later before they come to terms with the loss. The people that take days to get over a loss are at a significant disadvantage for the game next saturday/sunday/whenever because they spent too much time reflecting/replaying/figuring out how they couldn't steer the ball in the air.

Trump, the GOP and the entire Republican Party lost by 10 and are bitching about a touchdown that got called back in the 3rd quarter and if they would have scored it they would have won, even though touchdowns are only worth 6 and it was only 1 touchdown and it was in the 3rd quarter. These people you will never convince that they lost, but you can convince them they ran out of time! (lulz aggy joke from the aggie)

While I agree with your point, my point was the mindset in general is not going to change. The tactics aren't going to change. It's not just about this election, it's the sick nature of the politics in this country that are allowing the election to play out the way that it's playing out. It's not going anywhere. 

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Can someone explain the software glitches that somehow changed Biden votes to Trump votes?  The Hail Mary attempt here seems to be that if it affected some votes in one county, then the small effect in one county extrapolated to all counties in WI and MI would result in a huge swing.

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7 minutes ago, immamac said:

Were you a "Donald Trump isn't MY PRESIDENT" idiot the first few months after the election? What happened to those idiots when they realized that Donald Trump was actually THEIR PRESIDENT? Reality sets in for everyone, it may take a few hours, days, weeks, and for the stubborn maybe even a few months. There is no way in 2022 people will be claiming that Joe Biden is not the President of the United States (or someone in his line of succession). Facts are easy to dispute before the end of the game. 

 

I think a better one to look at is the 2000 election. That truly was a disputed election that had to be settled by the Supreme Court. Gore didn't fully concede until the middle of December (he did initially concede then withdraw the concession after this campaign told him how close Florida was). The entire process was front and center. This one appears to be more of a sideshow and even Fox News is having a hard time taking it seriously anymore. 

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5 minutes ago, ryskey said:

Can someone explain the software glitches that somehow changed Biden votes to Trump votes?  The Hail Mary attempt here seems to be that if it affected some votes in one county, then the small effect in one county extrapolated to all counties in WI and MI would result in a huge swing.

There was no software glitch. It was user error by GOP election officials in Antrim County, Michigan. 

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Just now, The Dog said:

I think a better one to look at is the 2000 election. That truly was a disputed election that had to be settled by the Supreme Court. Gore didn't fully concede until the middle of December (he did initially concede then withdraw the concession after this campaign told him how close Florida was). The entire process was front and center. This one appears to be more of a sideshow and even Fox News is having a hard time taking it seriously anymore. 

everyone wants to make parallels to 2000, even before the election. This election is not close. This is 2020. I will repeat, this election is not close. 

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1 minute ago, immamac said:

everyone wants to make parallels to 2000, even before the election. This election is not close. This is 2020. I will repeat, this election is not close. 

Agreed but that's the point I was trying to make. I was doing a bad job of agreeing with your take that people will move on. If they can move on after 2000 then they will after this.

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7 minutes ago, ryskey said:

Can someone explain the software glitches that somehow changed Biden votes to Trump votes?  The Hail Mary attempt here seems to be that if it affected some votes in one county, then the small effect in one county extrapolated to all counties in WI and MI would result in a huge swing.

 

2 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

There was no software glitch. It was user error by GOP election officials in Antrim County, Michigan. 

Not only that, it was caught early in the process, the ballots were recounted BY HAND, and never made it into the official tally. Ronna McDaniel as the Party head should be dragged over the coals for this, because she knew this and parroted the conspiracy theories anyway. Not that the GOP thinks it's wrong.

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6 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

 

Nate seems to think that people answer polling questions based on deeply seated beliefs.  They don't.  They are just parroting whatever right wing is saying. 

If right wing media started saying that China is our friend, you'd see huge poll swings that way.  Just like you saw with "conservative" opinions on Russia.  

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21 minutes ago, ryskey said:

Can someone explain the software glitches that somehow changed Biden votes to Trump votes?  The Hail Mary attempt here seems to be that if it affected some votes in one county, then the small effect in one county extrapolated to all counties in WI and MI would result in a huge swing.

 

15 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

There was no software glitch. It was user error by GOP election officials in Antrim County, Michigan. 

Yup. No glitch. GOP officials in the county screwed up their data mapping. The software worked exactly as intended. 

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4 minutes ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

 

Disenfranchising military voters in a futile attempt to maintain power. There is no bottom for Trump (other than Pence).

A large number of Nevada's APO addresses are for people with ATS clearances.  People in the black world have an "address" in Nevada for banking/tax/voting purposes regardless of military or civilian.

These fucktards are going after those votes because by definition those voters can't be "confirmed" in that you can't go to their house or call them because they live "off the grid."

An APO address is not a physical place.

The boys will not be happy.

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