Texas Football 2021 In-Season Thread: Can we get a redo?

[Hank Chinaski 6310]

Meh. I think you generally know what you have in a head coach by year 2. At that point, they’ve had 2 off-seasons to implement systems, get players acquainted and up to speed, 2 full recruiting cycles, etc. Year 1 miscalculations and fuckups are pretty common and it’s hard to know how to weight the apparent issues (how much is on players, schemes, coaches, etc).

Sark has a track record as a HC, and that tells us something. He was also really young when he took over a shitty Washington program, and he obviously had some other issues that can compromise performance during his first go-round as a HC. Is it reasonable to suggest that he can do better at this point in his career, that he can be a better coach now than he was then? Sure. Do we know that yet? No.

We knew Strong wasn’t going to make it by year 2. Herman had a good second season, but still lost 4 games. I think that’s about who Herman was - he’d win some big games every now and then, but was going to consistently lose 3-5 games every year. We’ll see with Sark.

The record/results is one thing. I’m more interested to see how this staff adapts and adjusts as this season goes on, and then see if they eliminate this year’s issues in ‘22.  Herman’s teams made the same mistakes year after year. He wasn’t terrible, but he wasn’t good enough and wasn’t getting better. We’ll probably know what we need to know about Sark next year. 

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2630]

5 minutes ago, Hank Chinaski said:

Meh. I think you generally know what you have in a head coach by year 2. At that point, they’ve had 2 off-seasons to implement systems, get players acquainted and up to speed, 2 full recruiting cycles, etc. Year 1 miscalculations and fuckups are pretty common and it’s hard to know how to weight the apparent issues (how much is on players, schemes, coaches, etc).

Sark has a track record as a HC, and that tells us something. He was also really young when he took over a shitty Washington program, and he obviously had some other issues that can compromise performance during his first go-round as a HC. Is it reasonable to suggest that he can do better at this point in his career, that he can be a better coach now than he was then? Sure. Do we know that yet? No.

We knew Strong wasn’t going to make it by year 2. Herman had a good second season, but still lost 4 games. I think that’s about who Herman was - he’d win some big games every now and then, but was going to consistently lose 3-5 games every year. We’ll see with Sark.

The record/results is one thing. I’m more interested to see how this staff adapts and adjusts as this season goes on, and then see if they eliminate this year’s issues in ‘22.  Herman’s teams made the same mistakes year after year. He wasn’t terrible, but he wasn’t good enough and wasn’t getting better. We’ll probably know what we need to know about Sark next year. 

Next weeks game is huge. I honestly want to see what they can do after a bye week.   If they are ever going to adjust scheme to fit personnel it’s now.  
 

My biggest rage is coaches who force square pegs into round holes.  They need to slowly mold it over time.  This week  it’s time for PK and by extension Sark, to look themselves in the mirror and realize the players aren’t there to make their ideal packages work. 
 

baylor will tell us a lot how nimble stark can get.   We lose in the same fashion we have been, it’s over. It’s Just waiting the buyout to drop and hoping we get enough decent players recruited for the next coach.  

[Longboard Horn 40006]

19 hours ago, PDX_Horn said:

Dirty martini with Bombay Sapphire  

Fuck yeah brother! 🤘🏻

[dcar00 14002]

15 hours ago, Xian said:

Next weeks game is huge. I honestly want to see what they can do after a bye week.   If they are ever going to adjust scheme to fit personnel it’s now.  
 

My biggest rage is coaches who force square pegs into round holes.  They need to slowly mold it over time.  This week  it’s time for PK and by extension Sark, to look themselves in the mirror and realize the players aren’t there to make their ideal packages work. 
 

baylor will tell us a lot how nimble stark can get.   We lose in the same fashion we have been, it’s over. It’s Just waiting the buyout to drop and hoping we get enough decent players recruited for the next coach.  

I get what you are saying but last week's game was huge and Sark and co blew it.  He needs to get a new DC that can actually compete in something other than the soft Pac 12.

maybe the KU DC would be a good hire.  he gave up half the number of points to OU, shut them out in 1st Half, and didn't give up nearly 700 yards.

 

[Treefidy 1463]

15 hours ago, Hank Chinaski said:

Meh. I think you generally know what you have in a head coach by year 2. At that point, they’ve had 2 off-seasons to implement systems, get players acquainted and up to speed, 2 full recruiting cycles, etc. Year 1 miscalculations and fuckups are pretty common and it’s hard to know how to weight the apparent issues (how much is on players, schemes, coaches, etc).

Sark has a track record as a HC, and that tells us something. He was also really young when he took over a shitty Washington program, and he obviously had some other issues that can compromise performance during his first go-round as a HC. Is it reasonable to suggest that he can do better at this point in his career, that he can be a better coach now than he was then? Sure. Do we know that yet? No.

We knew Strong wasn’t going to make it by year 2. Herman had a good second season, but still lost 4 games. I think that’s about who Herman was - he’d win some big games every now and then, but was going to consistently lose 3-5 games every year. We’ll see with Sark.

The record/results is one thing. I’m more interested to see how this staff adapts and adjusts as this season goes on, and then see if they eliminate this year’s issues in ‘22.  Herman’s teams made the same mistakes year after year. He wasn’t terrible, but he wasn’t good enough and wasn’t getting better. We’ll probably know what we need to know about Sark next year. 

Being a great coordination does not correlate to being a great HC, the jobs are completely different.  
 

Peope should go look up the top coaches in the current era, Saban, Meyer, Swinney and their backgrounds.   Saban was mostly a DB coach for some pretty mediocre teams.   Meyer likewise was mostly a WR coach for some pretty meh teams, or at least during mediocre periods of some great teams.  Dabo was a WR coach and only at two places, At Bama he just missed the MNC party coming in as a GA under the latter Stalling years and he was there for the Dubose desert wandering.  Then he went to Clemson under Tommy Bowden until they canned him mid season and elevated Dabo.   
 

But all 3 are badass head coaches.   So what’s the primary job of a HC?   Some say recruiting, and that’s part of it.  But really the #1 job is evaluating talent and hiring them as assistants.   Hiring guys that can work with you, who can recruit and who can coach.   That’s the job.   Sure even Saban picks up a dog from time to time (BoB come to mind) but he’s also replacing 4-7 assistants every year because they are getting elevated elsewhere or more importantly he cuts them loose if they suck.   Swinney on the other end has pieced together a good staff that has very little turnover.  
 

Strong and fuckface sucked in part because they brought their G5 staffs with them and weren’t mentally capable of cutting the dead weight before or after they showed their asses around UT.   Neither were particularly good at building a staff.   8 months ago it looked like Sark was doing a better than average job of staff building, though it was far from great.   The end of this season and what he does with his staff going forward will tell us what we need to know as long as we are willing to pay attention.  
 

I personally don’t think the HC also being a coordinator is a recipe for success, not at the highest levels anyways.  Brent Venables has proven to be a great DC, and some of the traits that make him a great DC would probably make him a terrible HC.  Riley is a great OC and maybe he can be a great HC, but I don’t know if he can be both.   It much more likely someone like a Traylor working a position for a mediocre coach somewhere has the chops to be the next great HC.   

[PDX_Horn 24]

30 minutes ago, Treefidy said:

Being a great coordination does not correlate to being a great HC, the jobs are completely different.  
 

Peope should go look up the top coaches in the current era, Saban, Meyer, Swinney and their backgrounds.   Saban was mostly a DB coach for some pretty mediocre teams.   Meyer likewise was mostly a WR coach for some pretty meh teams, or at least during mediocre periods of some great teams.  Dabo was a WR coach and only at two places, At Bama he just missed the MNC party coming in as a GA under the latter Stalling years and he was there for the Dubose desert wandering.  Then he went to Clemson under Tommy Bowden until they canned him mid season and elevated Dabo.   
 

But all 3 are badass head coaches.   So what’s the primary job of a HC?   Some say recruiting, and that’s part of it.  But really the #1 job is evaluating talent and hiring them as assistants.   Hiring guys that can work with you, who can recruit and who can coach.   That’s the job.   Sure even Saban picks up a dog from time to time (BoB come to mind) but he’s also replacing 4-7 assistants every year because they are getting elevated elsewhere or more importantly he cuts them loose if they suck.   Swinney on the other end has pieced together a good staff that has very little turnover.  
 

Strong and fuckface sucked in part because they brought their G5 staffs with them and weren’t mentally capable of cutting the dead weight before or after they showed their asses around UT.   Neither were particularly good at building a staff.   8 months ago it looked like Sark was doing a better than average job of staff building, though it was far from great.   The end of this season and what he does with his staff going forward will tell us what we need to know as long as we are willing to pay attention.  
 

I personally don’t think the HC also being a coordinator is a recipe for success, not at the highest levels anyways.  Brent Venables has proven to be a great DC, and some of the traits that make him a great DC would probably make him a terrible HC.  Riley is a great OC and maybe he can be a great HC, but I don’t know if he can be both.   It much more likely someone like a Traylor working a position for a mediocre coach somewhere has the chops to be the next great HC.   

Yes, we need to start getting the seat warmed up for a Traylor entrance in 2023/2024. 

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2630]

40 minutes ago, PDX_Horn said:

Yes, we need to start getting the seat warmed up for a Traylor entrance in 2023/2024. 

Our luck, he goes to OU when lsu hires Riley.  
🤮

[LTtxfan 48823]

 

[Horn Dog 9583]

On another thread, maybe in a recruiting thread, someone mentioned that Saban has negative recruiting against Sark by spreading some dirt on him.  Did it ever get revealed what this dirt is?  It is we’ll known he is a recovering alcoholic so I don’t think that’s it.

[CHIEF 5052]

9 hours ago, PDX_Horn said:

Yes, we need to start getting the seat warmed up for a Traylor entrance in 2023/2024. 

Traylor should have been this hire. There are several threads where Surlyites brought this up, and were "poo-pooed" about him only being 7-4 last year and Texas is too good to go after someone with a resume as short as his, and at a non-P5 school. That motherfucker has a ragtag band of San Antonio and Rio Grand Valley kids sitting at #23 this week.

CHIEF 

[Nueces River Rat 5521]

On 10/23/2021 at 12:50 AM, Harrison Bergeron said:

We hire reputations not coaches. We just Go pluck the sexiest name without regard to competence, fit, etc. That's why OU owns us - Stoops and Riley were not at the top of the "sexy coaches list." Yet they have anally violated our "hot name" coaches year end and year out.

Was Sark really a hot name?   I know most of Surly was focused on Urban and the interior features at Horseshoe Bay when the the search was on.  Did I miss the hype?   And what I mean is the ESPN/ football media hype that made us look at one hit wonders Charlie and Tom.

[Helobious 9465]

4 hours ago, Horn Dog said:

On another thread, maybe in a recruiting thread, someone mentioned that Saban has negative recruiting against Sark by spreading some dirt on him.  Did it ever get revealed what this dirt is?  It is we’ll known he is a recovering alcoholic so I don’t think that’s it.

That doesn’t sound true. I imagine Sagan’s recruiting pitch at Bama is just here’s a list of guys we’ve put in the NFL, here’s all the championships we’ve won, here’s our nice facilities. And oh yeah we’ll pay you too. Everything else probably takes care of itself. Don’t see them needing to do much negative recruiting.

[NYBevo 1699]

10 hours ago, Xian said:

Our luck, he goes to OU when lsu hires Riley.  
🤮

Riley may dip for the NFL if the spread offense keeps showing success with Kingsbury running it in Az

[Thatguy 8393]

On 10/23/2021 at 8:26 PM, Xian said:

Next weeks game is huge. I honestly want to see what they can do after a bye week.   If they are ever going to adjust scheme to fit personnel it’s now.  
 

My biggest rage is coaches who force square pegs into round holes.  They need to slowly mold it over time.  This week  it’s time for PK and by extension Sark, to look themselves in the mirror and realize the players aren’t there to make their ideal packages work. 
 

baylor will tell us a lot how nimble stark can get.   We lose in the same fashion we have been, it’s over. It’s Just waiting the buyout to drop and hoping we get enough decent players recruited for the next coach.  

  You guys can get quite ridiculous at times. Change schemes? What OC or DC you know changes schemes? Coaches spend years, sometimes decades learning what they run. They go to conferences for it. They drill it and drill it until it is who they are. Think about it. A coach has to be able to pull a play for a particular situation in 10-15 seconds that will work against the defense/offense he is seeing. That requires whatever you are running to be ingrained in you, so coaches run what they know until the game passes it by. Buddy Ryan didn't evolve the game passed by his 46 defense. Monte Kiffin didn't evolve people figured out the Tampa2. They don't change schemes they change coaches.

  Secondly, we are 7 games into the season and you guys are already calling for the coach's head. Its like you haven't learned. You will be calling for the next coach and the coach after that too until you finally realize that what makes coaches successful at this level is recruiting, not what plays they are calling. Nick Saban ran a shitty, predictable offense for years. Didn't matter. Urban Meyer's offense is shit too. Didn't matter either. Meanwhile, Lincoln Riley and Kingsbury's offenses were amazing and they haven't won shit. Dabo has the same coaches he won titles with, but he's losing this year. That's because players make plays not coaches, and when Texas had better players Texas was better. Recruits aren't going to come here if the constant feel around the 40 is the coach is on his way out. We all laughed at Aggy for giving Jimbo an extension but that was a power move to solidify their recruiting.

  Go look at the Aggy D-line. 6'4, 6'4, 6'6, and 6'5. They all look like basketball players. Linebackers are both 6'3, and all their starting secondary is over 6'. Look at their line. No one under 6'4 and no one under 300lbs. Now go look at OUR defense. Shorter. Fatter. Less athletic. 3 walk-ons. Coburn is 6'1 346. One end of the D-line is two guys who couldn't cut it at their prior schools, the other is a guy by size who should be playing inside and a walk-on. Two of our receivers weigh less than 170lbs, with one of those being a true freshman who has no idea how to run routes. You see the O-line. Our high recruiting classes weren't in the trenches where it matters and most of the big recruits from those either left early, transferred, or are hurt. We just are not good. Now since you guys forgot, go look at the 09 defense. Kindle, Randall, Okafor, both Achos, Robinson, Muck, the Browns, A-Will, Houston, and ET all NFL level players. That's every starter but one. Go look at the 05 defense. Same thing. We are never going to be BACK until we get BACK on the recruiting trail, and that won't happen while you guys are steadily firing coaches.

[Tex Pete 20121]

1 hour ago, Thatguy said:

Secondly, we are 7 games into the season and you guys are already calling for the coach's head. Its like you haven't learned.

Or maybe they have. 

[TwiceHorn 31085]

1 hour ago, Thatguy said:

You guys can get quite ridiculous at times. Change schemes? What OC or DC you know changes schemes? Coaches spend years, sometimes decades learning what they run.

This is kind of an interesting concept.  We've been frustrated in the past both by coaches that stuck to a scheme seemingly without regard to talent or the opponents (Herman, several coordinators) and by those with seemingly no schematic preference (Mack, except for a partiality to the run game).  At times, like these, we've pined for the coach that can "make chicken salad out of chicken shit."  And, we thought Mack would have been a better coach if he picked a scheme and recruited to it.

On the one hand, the adaptability of the "chickenshit" coach seems desirable; on the other, it does seem that some of the best coaches have their schemes, use them pretty rigidly, and recruit to them.

However, should a HFC be that rigid?  

[LTtxfan 48823]

On Texas Football: Longhorns' Season at a Crossroads      (4 hours ago)  

[LTtxfan 48823]

 

[LTtxfan 48823]

 

[DigglerontheHoof 20963]

7-5...maybe 8-4 is this team's ceiling.  Without serviceable line play, we're toast.   Next year here we come....again. 

[NoName 16265]

3 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

7-5...maybe 8-4 is this team's ceiling.  Without serviceable line play, we're toast.   Next year here we come....again. 

S&P+ win projections

• 30% chance 8 wins
• 38% 7 wins
• 33% <7 wins

[pyrohornIII 4783]

20 hours ago, Treefidy said:

Being a great coordination does not correlate to being a great HC, the jobs are completely different.  
 

Peope should go look up the top coaches in the current era, Saban, Meyer, Swinney and their backgrounds.   Saban was mostly a DB coach for some pretty mediocre teams.   Meyer likewise was mostly a WR coach for some pretty meh teams, or at least during mediocre periods of some great teams.  Dabo was a WR coach and only at two places, At Bama he just missed the MNC party coming in as a GA under the latter Stalling years and he was there for the Dubose desert wandering.  Then he went to Clemson under Tommy Bowden until they canned him mid season and elevated Dabo.   
 

But all 3 are badass head coaches.   So what’s the primary job of a HC?   Some say recruiting, and that’s part of it.  But really the #1 job is evaluating talent and hiring them as assistants.   Hiring guys that can work with you, who can recruit and who can coach.   That’s the job.   Sure even Saban picks up a dog from time to time (BoB come to mind) but he’s also replacing 4-7 assistants every year because they are getting elevated elsewhere or more importantly he cuts them loose if they suck.   Swinney on the other end has pieced together a good staff that has very little turnover.  
 

Strong and fuckface sucked in part because they brought their G5 staffs with them and weren’t mentally capable of cutting the dead weight before or after they showed their asses around UT.   Neither were particularly good at building a staff.   8 months ago it looked like Sark was doing a better than average job of staff building, though it was far from great.   The end of this season and what he does with his staff going forward will tell us what we need to know as long as we are willing to pay attention.  
 

I personally don’t think the HC also being a coordinator is a recipe for success, not at the highest levels anyways.  Brent Venables has proven to be a great DC, and some of the traits that make him a great DC would probably make him a terrible HC.  Riley is a great OC and maybe he can be a great HC, but I don’t know if he can be both.   It much more likely someone like a Traylor working a position for a mediocre coach somewhere has the chops to be the next great HC.   

So Flood came from Saban's staff and our OL is bad.  Bad hire there?  

I get what you are saying about hiring poor assistants, we have lived through so much of that it makes us very impatient for results.  This is a good staff, and I feel much better about Sark being bright enough to right the ship than either of the last two hires.   

I wanted Traylor for this hire, but too many here were ready to sell off first borns to get Urban.  I never liked him, he just represented as slime to me.  But I also understood the argument for avoiding hiring unproven coaches.   So Sark was a compromise hire.    

Personally, I want to give Sark a couple more years to show out here.  I think he'll get it right.    I do agree he needs help keeping his finger on the pulse of the overall game if he wants to continue calling plays.  

[jinx 2635]

4 hours ago, Thatguy said:

  Go look at the Aggy D-line. 6'4, 6'4, 6'6, and 6'5. They all look like basketball players. Linebackers are both 6'3, and all their starting secondary is over 6'. Look at their line. No one under 6'4 and no one under 300lbs. Now go look at OUR defense. Shorter. Fatter. Less athletic. 3 walk-ons. Coburn is 6'1 346. One end of the D-line is two guys who couldn't cut it at their prior schools, the other is a guy by size who should be playing inside and a walk-on. Two of our receivers weigh less than 170lbs, with one of those being a true freshman who has no idea how to run routes. You see the O-line. Our high recruiting classes weren't in the trenches where it matters and most of the big recruits from those either left early, transferred, or are hurt. We just are not good. Now since you guys forgot, go look at the 09 defense. Kindle, Randall, Okafor, both Achos, Robinson, Muck, the Browns, A-Will, Houston, and ET all NFL level players. That's every starter but one. Go look at the 05 defense. Same thing. We are never going to be BACK until we get BACK on the recruiting trail, and that won't happen while you guys are steadily firing coaches.

I'm not calling for anyone's head, but I am significantly less interested in following this season.  Mainly due to the horrific ways in which we have decided to lose games this season. That gives me major concern that we have hired the wrong guy once again.

Your last paragraph is spot on, and one of the best reasons for joining the SEC. The SEC as monopolized the game on recruiting in the trenches, with the Big 10 being the only other conference in the same neighborhood.

I do have to say it has been tough to watch Rhule and now Aranda turn Baylor into a tough fundamentally sound team to contrast the soft baby shit that we put on the field. Baylor / Okie State / Iowa State does not have better talent than us. They are just better coached.

But there is something to be said for continuity. Let's hope Sark and crew have the ability to turn this thing around. 

[Zeus 5923]

5 hours ago, Thatguy said:

  You guys can get quite ridiculous at times. Change schemes? What OC or DC you know changes schemes? Coaches spend years, sometimes decades learning what they run. They go to conferences for it. They drill it and drill it until it is who they are. Think about it. A coach has to be able to pull a play for a particular situation in 10-15 seconds that will work against the defense/offense he is seeing. That requires whatever you are running to be ingrained in you, so coaches run what they know until the game passes it by. Buddy Ryan didn't evolve the game passed by his 46 defense. Monte Kiffin didn't evolve people figured out the Tampa2. They don't change schemes they change coaches.

  Secondly, we are 7 games into the season and you guys are already calling for the coach's head. Its like you haven't learned. You will be calling for the next coach and the coach after that too until you finally realize that what makes coaches successful at this level is recruiting, not what plays they are calling. Nick Saban ran a shitty, predictable offense for years. Didn't matter. Urban Meyer's offense is shit too. Didn't matter either. Meanwhile, Lincoln Riley and Kingsbury's offenses were amazing and they haven't won shit. Dabo has the same coaches he won titles with, but he's losing this year. That's because players make plays not coaches, and when Texas had better players Texas was better. Recruits aren't going to come here if the constant feel around the 40 is the coach is on his way out. We all laughed at Aggy for giving Jimbo an extension but that was a power move to solidify their recruiting.

  Go look at the Aggy D-line. 6'4, 6'4, 6'6, and 6'5. They all look like basketball players. Linebackers are both 6'3, and all their starting secondary is over 6'. Look at their line. No one under 6'4 and no one under 300lbs. Now go look at OUR defense. Shorter. Fatter. Less athletic. 3 walk-ons. Coburn is 6'1 346. One end of the D-line is two guys who couldn't cut it at their prior schools, the other is a guy by size who should be playing inside and a walk-on. Two of our receivers weigh less than 170lbs, with one of those being a true freshman who has no idea how to run routes. You see the O-line. Our high recruiting classes weren't in the trenches where it matters and most of the big recruits from those either left early, transferred, or are hurt. We just are not good. Now since you guys forgot, go look at the 09 defense. Kindle, Randall, Okafor, both Achos, Robinson, Muck, the Browns, A-Will, Houston, and ET all NFL level players. That's every starter but one. Go look at the 05 defense. Same thing. We are never going to be BACK until we get BACK on the recruiting trail, and that won't happen while you guys are steadily firing coaches.

This

Pro football is about the Xs and Os

College football is about the Jimmies and Joes

[CurlyDumps 4430]

11 hours ago, Helobious said:

That doesn’t sound true.

Agree. The notion of Saban gossiping about non-football related "dirt" with teenage boys sounds fucking laughable to me.

Caveat: I don't really follow recruiting beyond lurking on threads so maybe I'm naive.

Edited October 25, 2021 by CurlyDumps

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

12 hours ago, Nueces River Rat said:

Was Sark really a hot name?   I know most of Surly was focused on Urban and the interior features at Horseshoe Bay when the the search was on.  Did I miss the hype?   And what I mean is the ESPN/ football media hype that made us look at one hit wonders Charlie and Tom.

I think he probably was the hottest name out there when we hired him outside of Urban. Maybe I'm wrong, but IIRC he was usually listed as the biggest name hire of all the guys that got HC jobs last year.

[dcar00 14002]

5 hours ago, Thatguy said:

  You guys can get quite ridiculous at times. Change schemes? What OC or DC you know changes schemes? Coaches spend years, sometimes decades learning what they run. They go to conferences for it. They drill it and drill it until it is who they are. Think about it. A coach has to be able to pull a play for a particular situation in 10-15 seconds that will work against the defense/offense he is seeing. That requires whatever you are running to be ingrained in you, so coaches run what they know until the game passes it by. Buddy Ryan didn't evolve the game passed by his 46 defense. Monte Kiffin didn't evolve people figured out the Tampa2. They don't change schemes they change coaches.

  Secondly, we are 7 games into the season and you guys are already calling for the coach's head. Its like you haven't learned. You will be calling for the next coach and the coach after that too until you finally realize that what makes coaches successful at this level is recruiting, not what plays they are calling. Nick Saban ran a shitty, predictable offense for years. Didn't matter. Urban Meyer's offense is shit too. Didn't matter either. Meanwhile, Lincoln Riley and Kingsbury's offenses were amazing and they haven't won shit. Dabo has the same coaches he won titles with, but he's losing this year. That's because players make plays not coaches, and when Texas had better players Texas was better. Recruits aren't going to come here if the constant feel around the 40 is the coach is on his way out. We all laughed at Aggy for giving Jimbo an extension but that was a power move to solidify their recruiting.

  Go look at the Aggy D-line. 6'4, 6'4, 6'6, and 6'5. They all look like basketball players. Linebackers are both 6'3, and all their starting secondary is over 6'. Look at their line. No one under 6'4 and no one under 300lbs. Now go look at OUR defense. Shorter. Fatter. Less athletic. 3 walk-ons. Coburn is 6'1 346. One end of the D-line is two guys who couldn't cut it at their prior schools, the other is a guy by size who should be playing inside and a walk-on. Two of our receivers weigh less than 170lbs, with one of those being a true freshman who has no idea how to run routes. You see the O-line. Our high recruiting classes weren't in the trenches where it matters and most of the big recruits from those either left early, transferred, or are hurt. We just are not good. Now since you guys forgot, go look at the 09 defense. Kindle, Randall, Okafor, both Achos, Robinson, Muck, the Browns, A-Will, Houston, and ET all NFL level players. That's every starter but one. Go look at the 05 defense. Same thing. We are never going to be BACK until we get BACK on the recruiting trail, and that won't happen while you guys are steadily firing coaches.

you are correct.  Sark hired the wrong Pac12 DC.

[Doc Reeves 6434]

On 10/23/2021 at 3:35 PM, PDX_Horn said:

Dirty martini with Bombay Sapphire  

 

Ftmfw. That was my drink back in the day although i would alternate with Plymouth Have given them up since I’ve had the kid a few years ago, I just can’t bounce back the way i used to.  

[Nueces River Rat 5521]

16 minutes ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

I think he probably was the hottest name out there when we hired him outside of Urban. Maybe I'm wrong, but IIRC he was usually listed as the biggest name hire of all the guys that got HC jobs last year.

You might be right...   I guess he and others got lost in the  Urban Mania, Mc Ribs, the drapes at Horseshoe Bay, etc. here on Surly.

 

But I don't recall the media really spinning Sark like they did Charlie and Tom.

[CurlyDumps 4430]

18 minutes ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

I think he probably was the hottest name out there when we hired him outside of Urban. Maybe I'm wrong, but IIRC he was usually listed as the biggest name hire of all the guys that got HC jobs last year.

So, hindsight bias on top of an article that retroactively ranked him as the biggest name relative to other offseason hires.

The collective reaction to the hire was "WTF?" There was literally one guy in the Urban thread saying he was hearing it's Sark, and from what I recall, pretty much everyone hated the idea and wanted to believe he was full of shit. I disagree that we just went after the hot name a la Herman.

[Horn Dog 9583]

23 hours ago, Treefidy said:

But all 3 are badass head coaches.   So what’s the primary job of a HC?   Some say recruiting, and that’s part of it.  But really the #1 job is evaluating talent and hiring them as assistants.   Hiring guys that can work with you, who can recruit and who can coach.   That’s the job.   Sure even Saban picks up a dog from time to time (BoB come to mind) but he’s also replacing 4-7 assistants every year because they are getting elevated elsewhere or more importantly he cuts them loose if they suck.   Swinney on the other end has pieced together a good staff that has very little turnover.  

I personally don’t think the HC also being a coordinator is a recipe for success, not at the highest levels anyways.  Brent Venables has proven to be a great DC, and some of the traits that make him a great DC would probably make him a terrible HC.  Riley is a great OC and maybe he can be a great HC, but I don’t know if he can be both.   It much more likely someone like a Traylor working a position for a mediocre coach somewhere has the chops to be the next great HC.   

I agree with all this but I think it only really represents about 60-70% of the success formula.  The other 40-30% is your key conference rivals being down.  Ina large part this  is why OU has had a recent successful run.  If Texas was strong for the last decade, they certainly would not have the success they have enjoyed regardless of coaching staff.  The additional problem is once the inertia gets going, especially in the negative direction, it is very difficult to change it since you are swimming upstream while teams with recent successful have a nice current to float on.  Bottom line is a lot of this is luck and waiting for the roulette wheel to land on our number.  A good coach can increase the odds a bit, that effect is going to be extremely limited for the first few years.

[torre 1284]

6 hours ago, Thatguy said:

  You guys can get quite ridiculous at times. Change schemes? What OC or DC you know changes schemes? Coaches spend years, sometimes decades learning what they run. They go to conferences for it. They drill it and drill it until it is who they are. Think about it. A coach has to be able to pull a play for a particular situation in 10-15 seconds that will work against the defense/offense he is seeing. That requires whatever you are running to be ingrained in you, so coaches run what they know until the game passes it by. Buddy Ryan didn't evolve the game passed by his 46 defense. Monte Kiffin didn't evolve people figured out the Tampa2. They don't change schemes they change coaches.

  Secondly, we are 7 games into the season and you guys are already calling for the coach's head. Its like you haven't learned. You will be calling for the next coach and the coach after that too until you finally realize that what makes coaches successful at this level is recruiting, not what plays they are calling. Nick Saban ran a shitty, predictable offense for years. Didn't matter. Urban Meyer's offense is shit too. Didn't matter either. Meanwhile, Lincoln Riley and Kingsbury's offenses were amazing and they haven't won shit. Dabo has the same coaches he won titles with, but he's losing this year. That's because players make plays not coaches, and when Texas had better players Texas was better. Recruits aren't going to come here if the constant feel around the 40 is the coach is on his way out. We all laughed at Aggy for giving Jimbo an extension but that was a power move to solidify their recruiting.

  Go look at the Aggy D-line. 6'4, 6'4, 6'6, and 6'5. They all look like basketball players. Linebackers are both 6'3, and all their starting secondary is over 6'. Look at their line. No one under 6'4 and no one under 300lbs. Now go look at OUR defense. Shorter. Fatter. Less athletic. 3 walk-ons. Coburn is 6'1 346. One end of the D-line is two guys who couldn't cut it at their prior schools, the other is a guy by size who should be playing inside and a walk-on. Two of our receivers weigh less than 170lbs, with one of those being a true freshman who has no idea how to run routes. You see the O-line. Our high recruiting classes weren't in the trenches where it matters and most of the big recruits from those either left early, transferred, or are hurt. We just are not good. Now since you guys forgot, go look at the 09 defense. Kindle, Randall, Okafor, both Achos, Robinson, Muck, the Browns, A-Will, Houston, and ET all NFL level players. That's every starter but one. Go look at the 05 defense. Same thing. We are never going to be BACK until we get BACK on the recruiting trail, and that won't happen while you guys are steadily firing coaches.

Yet these undersized, walkon misfits you describe led OU and OKSt by substantial margins only to lose - and you say we don't have cause to question a defensive coordinator who is apparently married to a scheme over the players on his roster ?     Whose defense set a record for permitting the greatest comeback in the Texas/OU series ?

The defensive coordinator who had a OU freshman QB with a 3rd and 19 and chose not to pressure with even a corner blitz  ? 

[Tex Pete 20121]

33 minutes ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

I think he probably was the hottest name out there when we hired him outside of Urban. 

He wasn't. It was completely out of left field. No one was talking about him at all. 

Maybe we can overcome the problematic hire. Texas Football most of my lifetime says we won't.

[tx 3 putt 75959]

He’s not wired right to be a HC

great oc 

[Nivek 16771]

Really? Come on.
Sark came into a damn good situation personnel and coaching wise. Nobody here was saying playoffs, but conference champs and/or sugar bowl berth was definitely realistic.
Dude just has not delivered as a head coach here similarly to his stints at SC and UDub. I’m fine with the Arkansas loss, but OU and OSU came down to coaching. 

Great personnel wise? You saw the offensive line and thought Great! I saw them and thought graaaaaattte.

OU loss came down to officiating. Osu was coaching plus officiating.

[Nivek 16771]

You can’t blame the players bro (I tried already haha). The rankings bro, the rankings. Herman signed top 3 classes constantly so we should win. It’s our lack of QA and QC coaches, 10 months in and our S&C coach already sucks ass. Sark has failed, it’s obvious by 7 games. I’ve just given you all the bullshit people are going to fling at you lol. It doesn’t matter that herman chased stars and didn’t find scheme fits. It doesn’t matter that all those stars he recruited progressively got worse over their careers at Texas thanks to the shit coaching staff they had before sark and Co. came along. It’s over, come back in 3 years when we hire Traylor and steal all the QA/QC guys from bama and win a title in his first season. 

Rankings don’t play football.

[Nivek 16771]

This is kind of an interesting concept.  We've been frustrated in the past both by coaches that stuck to a scheme seemingly without regard to talent or the opponents (Herman, several coordinators) and by those with seemingly no schematic preference (Mack, except for a partiality to the run game).  At times, like these, we've pined for the coach that can "make chicken salad out of chicken shit."  And, we thought Mack would have been a better coach if he picked a scheme and recruited to it.
On the one hand, the adaptability of the "chickenshit" coach seems desirable; on the other, it does seem that some of the best coaches have their schemes, use them pretty rigidly, and recruit to them.
However, should a HFC be that rigid?  

High functioning coach?

[WinningIsHard 4002]

1 minute ago, Nivek said:

Rankings don’t play football.

The whole rant was sarcasm lol. I can't deal with the "talent is there" crowd anymore so I went full regarded. All those stars mean shit since Herman ruined them all over his 4 years. 

[closetohumping 17354]

26 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Rankings don’t play football.

Speaking of rankings, here's Tom Herman's vaunted 2019 class, rated #3:

 

https://247sports.com/college/texas/Season/2019-Football/Commits/?fbclid=IwAR3zoYAANlKLl5xtniIcmenopKmiRpvidxYANibY0yPiXvI3_R6JPzBzBaI

[WinningIsHard 4002]

5 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Speaking of rankings, here's Tom Herman's vaunted 2019 class, rated #3:

 

https://247sports.com/college/texas/Season/2019-Football/Commits/?fbclid=IwAR3zoYAANlKLl5xtniIcmenopKmiRpvidxYANibY0yPiXvI3_R6JPzBzBaI

You have to get alllllll the way down to the 13th highest rated recruit before you find a guy who has done shit for Texas and he started out as a QB. lulz 

[TwiceHorn 31085]

3 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Speaking of rankings, here's Tom Herman's vaunted 2019 class, rated #3:

 

https://247sports.com/college/texas/Season/2019-Football/Commits/?fbclid=IwAR3zoYAANlKLl5xtniIcmenopKmiRpvidxYANibY0yPiXvI3_R6JPzBzBaI

Someone did this on another thread.  Tons of attrition, what's left is JAGs.  The 2018 class didn't have nearly as much attrition, supplies many of today's starters, but you can't help but think most of them are pretty much JAGs, but might have been better with better coaching/development.  Very few/no sure-fire stars.

I bet you can do this all day with our "top ranked" classes for the last 10 years or so.

[closetohumping 17354]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Someone did this on another thread.  Tons of attrition, what's left is JAGs.  The 2018 class didn't have nearly as much attrition, supplies many of today's starters, but you can't help but think most of them are pretty much JAGs, but might have been better with better coaching/development.  Very few/no sure-fire stars.

I bet you can do this all day with our "top ranked" classes for the last 10 years or so.

 

2 minutes ago, WinningIsHard said:

You have to get alllllll the way down to the 13th highest rated recruit before you find a guy who has done shit for Texas and he started out as a QB. lulz 

That's not to say we don't have talent.  We do, but it may not be as good as some believe.  That class is ass.  We can't have nice things apparently.  

[DanTheHorn 4884]

This season is so over that presser threads are not being started anymore or at least I did not see one so I will put this here. One thing that was not coach speak that I found interesting this week is that Sark was asked about Bijan becoming a more vocal leader. Sark said that was great since vocal leaders should only be those players doing their job. Players that practice hard, put in the time and make plays in games. He said players that are not doing their job have no business being vocal leaders. I wonder whom on the team that was directed at since there must be someone that is being loud that is doing a shit job. Anyone on the OL, DL, LBs or safeties are candidates. I say that because we have at least one WR and a nickle back that are doing decent work. My top candidate is Coburn.

Edited October 25, 2021 by DanTheHorn

[DanTheHorn 4884]

2 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

 

That's not to say we don't have talent.  We do, but it may not be as good as some believe.  That class is ass.  We can't have nice things apparently.  

I am tired on the folks that say it is because we don't have the talent or talent is ruined. That "nonexistent talent" did a hell of a job for 3 quarters in 2 games and was blowing the folks in-front of them out. In the 4th quarter by Sark's own words today he went vanilla and it cost the team.

[Blotto 23366]

2 hours ago, jinx said:

I'm not calling for anyone's head, but I am significantly less interested in following this season.  Mainly due to the horrific ways in which we have decided to lose games this season. That gives me major concern that we have hired the wrong guy once again.

 

That’s pretty much where I'm at. I’ll acknowledge that Sark is going to at least get the 3 years that Strong got before we can entertain firing him, so I'm not calling for his head. Just don't expect me to drink the koolaid. I thought it was a shit hire, and I haven’t seen anything to change my mind. Everyone keeps harping on the talent discrepancy, but this team had enough talent to be leading after 3 quarters against two undefeated teams, before losing the 4th qtr by a combined score of 41-7. and in our other loss, the team was flat out asswhipped by a decent, but not great arky team. They were unprepared mentally for that one.

You know when I was out on Herman? It was the second loss to MD (finished at 5-7). That should have never fucking happened. The loss at home the previous year was bad enough, but if he was worth a shit, we would have won that game with a team that would go onto notch some good wins. I knew something was fucked right then. I'm getting the same vibe with Sark. Could we have better talent? Sure. But that wasn’t the primary reason we lost our last two games. Not in my mind, anyway.

Usually the risk when hiring coordinators is you don't  know how they will perform having to run the entire show. But with Sark there was a data set to evaluate. His Washington team in year 5 was basically the same as in year 1. He didnt figure shit out. My friends that went to school there weren't mad at all  when he bolted for USC. The good news is my opinion is worthless.... CDC doesnt care what I think, nor should he. He had his rationale for choosing Sark.  Prove me wrong, CDC/Sark. I'll be f'n thrilled. 

[Codaxx 5552]

On 10/23/2021 at 8:26 PM, Xian said:

Next weeks game is huge. I honestly want to see what they can do after a bye week.   If they are ever going to adjust scheme to fit personnel it’s now.  
 

My biggest rage is coaches who force square pegs into round holes.  They need to slowly mold it over time.  This week  it’s time for PK and by extension Sark, to look themselves in the mirror and realize the players aren’t there to make their ideal packages work. 
 

baylor will tell us a lot how nimble stark can get.   We lose in the same fashion we have been, it’s over. It’s Just waiting the buyout to drop and hoping we get enough decent players recruited for the next coach.  

Texas is 2nd in scoring offense (41.6, OU is at 41.8). 3rd in Total offense and 4th in yards per play. All that is in the backdrop of having a bad OL, poor QB play (Casey is 8th in QBR in the Big 12), and a very mediocre WR corp. Say what you want about the defense, but really hard to get on Sark and his ability to scheme up an offense. The 2nd half should be better, but the numbers dont lie. 

[Nivek 16771]

All Sark has to be is competent to average as a coach to win at Texas.   Part of that competency is in evaluating the players he has and their ability to perform to expectations.   Bijan is great.  But I would trade his ass for 3 average o-line men in the blink of an eye.  

[DanTheHorn 4884]

My take on Sark's ability so far:

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2021 by DanTheHorn

[immamac 42389]

1 hour ago, DanTheHorn said:

This season is so over that presser threads are not being started anymore or at least I did not see one so I will put this here. One thing that was not coach speak that I found interesting this week is that Sark was asked about Bijan becoming a more vocal leader. Sark said that was great since vocal leaders should only be those players doing their job. Players that practice hard, put in the time and make plays in games. He said players that are not doing their job have no business being vocal leaders. I wonder whom on the team that was directed at since there must be someone that is being loud that is doing a shit job. Anyone on the OL, DL, LBs or safeties are candidates. I say that because we have at least one WR and a nickle back that are doing decent work. My top candidate is Coburn.

Josh Thompson. Keondre Coburn. D'Shawn Jamison to name a few who need to shut the fuck up and play right before they can talk. 

[Knighthawk 284]

2 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

My take on Sark's ability so far:

 

 

 

It’s a bandwidth problem.   Sark can’t be HC, OC, and playcaller.   It takes singular focus to counter the defensive adjustments during a game.   We go from dictating the action early in games to getting behind the chains late in games.   Eventually the defense cracks 

The 2nd half offensive stall happened against frog, much worse against okie, and then a disaster against ok st (last six possession, 9 total yards and no 1st downs)