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2021-22 PGA thread


Wally Fairway

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3 minutes ago, ocugolf said:

So far, I know Phil, Rose, Adam Scott, Westwood, Poulter, Kevin Na, Bubba Watson, and Jason Kokrak have signed on to the Saudi’s. They threw a huge offer at Anthony Kim. So he may be another. From two dudes on Tour.

DeChambeau is definite. His offer is, reportedly, in excess of $135M. Even though he’s the only one to really move the needle, competitively, I don’t think many will really miss him. 

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6 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

DeChambeau is definite. His offer is, reportedly, in excess of $135M. Even though he’s the only one to really move the needle, competitively, I don’t think many will really miss him. 

Ya. They weren’t concrete on him. But i assume he’s going. Their top 10 signings get unlimited use of private jet for them and family. 
 

Only cool thing is the courses in America they have signed up. Maidstone in New York, Chicago golf club, Sand Hills, Ohoopee Match Play Club, and Philadelphia Cricket Club. 

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Ya. They weren’t concrete on him. But i assume he’s going. Their top 10 signings get unlimited use of private jet for them and family. 
 
Only cool thing is the courses in America they have signed up. Maidstone in New York, Chicago golf club, Sand Hills, Ohoopee Match Play Club, and Philadelphia Cricket Club. 

If the SGL is going to be part of the Asian tour then why would they be allowed to play in the US?
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1 hour ago, ocugolf said:

So far, I know Phil, Rose, Adam Scott, Westwood, Poulter, Kevin Na, Bubba Watson, and Jason Kokrak have signed on to the Saudi’s. They threw a huge offer at Anthony Kim. So he may be another. From two dudes on Tour.

Your best players are Kevin Na and Jason Kokrak and no one in the top 20. After that, you're looking at OWGR of 40+. This is pathetic. Even with the least watchable player eventually going to them, this has zero interest from me.

Opposite field events have more firepower than this circus.

Edited by dieucla98
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His name has not been mentioned at all, but I wonder whether a guy like Rickie Fowler would be tempted.  He's making bank with all his sponsorships, but he's not making any cuts.  Does he take what I assume would be unimaginable guaranteed money at a time when his game stinks and he's headed the way of Duval?

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12 minutes ago, field said:

His name has not been mentioned at all, but I wonder whether a guy like Rickie Fowler would be tempted.  He's making bank with all his sponsorships, but he's not making any cuts.  Does he take what I assume would be unimaginable guaranteed money at a time when his game stinks and he's headed the way of Duval?

decent chance those sponsorships go bye bye if he joins the SGL.  plus, he seems pretty image conscious.  and, i think he really wants to show he can make a comeback on the PGA Tour.  so, i don't think he leaves. 

but yeah, he's the exact kind of guy the SGL is likely targeting with $$$.  high profile name who (now) has a family and is struggling on the tour.  if the money is big enough, then he wouldn't miss that sponsorship cash.  good call on him.

 

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10 minutes ago, field said:

His name has not been mentioned at all, but I wonder whether a guy like Rickie Fowler would be tempted.  He's making bank with all his sponsorships, but he's not making any cuts.  Does he take what I assume would be unimaginable guaranteed money at a time when his game stinks and he's headed the way of Duval?

He’d have to withstand a lot of peer pressure from Justin and Jordan. They have been outspoken against. Of course, friendships don’t pay the bills so who knows. 

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If there’s no boycott on the majors for joining up (and really there shouldn’t be) you’d be crazy not to go to the Saudi tour. With the majors that makes an 18 week schedule, 14 of which you are guaranteed to cash, plus crazy appearance fees? No brainer. If you can’t play the majors that’s a different animal, but nobody’s legacy at the highest level is made by winning regular tour events. 

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43 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

^^^

Players, outside of those already  holding exemptions, are going to have a hard time qualifying for the majors if the money and results from the SGL don’t count. 

It should still count for OGWR, right?  Those tournaments the more highly rated guys you have the more you get points. Seems like if they could knock down 30 or 40 guys in the top 100 it would keep them all up there, right?  

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45 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

^^^

Players, outside of those already  holding exemptions, are going to have a hard time qualifying for the majors if the money and results from the SGL don’t count. 

It should still count for OGWR, right?  Those tournaments the more highly rated guys you have the more you get points. Seems like if they could knock down 30 or 40 guys in the top 100 it would keep them all up there, right?  I guess at the end of the day I just see no reason for the majors to fall on their sword protecting the PGA tour. That’s not where their bread is buttered and it doesn’t benefit them to not have guys like BDC in the field. Though, a lot of these guys would have lifetime exemptions to some of the majors and 5 or 10 year exemptions to others of the majors for being past major champs. 

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49 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

It should still count for OGWR, right?

I would think that players from both the PGA and European tours would have a problem with that. It wouldn’t be a level playing field having to compete for points against golfers playing solely in small, shallow field, no cut tournaments. Even WGC events have much bigger fields, usually 72 players. And invitations to those are based on OWGR. Players have to earn their way into them so they are competing against the best in the world. 

Edited by TonyTexas
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19 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

I would think that players from both the PGA and European tours would have a problem with that. It wouldn’t be a level playing field having to compete for points against golfers playing solely in small, shallow field, no cut tournaments. Even WGC events have much bigger fields, usually 72 players. And invitations to those are based on OWGR. Players have to earn their way into them so they are competing against the best in the world. 

Tigers 15 person Hero tournament counts for OWGR rankings. The WGC 64 person match play and the 60 and 80 no cut tourneys count. The fed ex 60 and 30 no cut playoff tournaments count. That’s pretty similar to what it looks like they are going to be doing. 
I understand your sentiment and don’t necessarily disagree, but there’s ample precedent for similar type stuff counting and if the fields are good enough there’s not a ton of justification not to count them. Especially since it’s paired with the Asian tour. 

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54 minutes ago, Mileslong said:


There are European tour events held in the US?

Wtf are you talking about? There are 10,000 courses in the US. You don't need the PGA Tour's permission to host a tournament at any of them. 

Are you aware that the Euro tour plays it's end of season championship in Dubai? Or that the 4 majors count as an event on the PGA, Euro and Japan tours?

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Wtf are you talking about? There are 10,000 courses in the US. You don't need the PGA Tour's permission to host a tournament at any of them. 
Are you aware that the Euro tour plays it's end of season championship in Dubai? Or that the 4 majors count as an event on the PGA, Euro and Japan tours?

I don’t follow the fucking schedules of every tour, I asked a fucking question about it since I didn’t know. That’s doesn’t mean Phil didn’t make one of the biggest sick moves ever by trashing the PGA Tour that made him rich.

Go listen to what other pros like JT are saying about it. The PGA could ban him for comments but won’t, however, if he and his lawyers really are involved with structuring the SDL tour then they might very well ban him and I wish they would.

So now go suck your boy BDC’s dick…

8202eaf458390296e9b3f69bfd757efd.jpg
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25 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Tigers 15 person Hero tournament counts for OWGR rankings. The WGC 64 person match play and the 60 and 80 no cut tourneys count. The fed ex 60 and 30 no cut playoff tournaments count. That’s pretty similar to what it looks like they are going to be doing. 
I understand your sentiment and don’t necessarily disagree, but there’s ample precedent for similar type stuff counting and if the fields are good enough there’s not a ton of justification not to count them. Especially since it’s paired with the Asian tour. 

The Hero is a much stronger field than the rumored SGL would be. 

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7 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

The Hero is a much stronger field than the rumored SGL would be. 

Yeah- that’s why my hypothetical that started this was “if you could lock down 30 or 40 of the top 100…”

This tour would kill it if they really could get most of the top 50 players.  And I think those guys actually would love that set up and tour. 
Nobody is passing on this (imo) bc of loyalty toward the tour, but rather because they aren’t sure this thing will get off the ground so why rock the boat if the thing fails. 
it’s crazy to me that the tour owns all their digital rights when they are in essence 1099 employees. 
I don’t care one way or another what happens as long as the majors aren’t messed up, but the tour sitting on almost 3 commas worth of loot is pretty incredible of Phil is to be believed. 

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3 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

That’s the big issue. The fields are going to be weak. 

Yeah. For now. If those checks actually get cashed, the Saudi’s actually out on the tournaments and don’t stiff people we will see how weak the field will be in 5 years. I have no idea if this will be a thing or not that happens but I’m not dismissing it out of hand. 
In some ways I think it could really work if they got really good fields and played 14 times a year. Add 4 majors and Ryder Cup or presidents cup and if you had the top 30 or 50 guys on the same course 20 times a year that would be about perfect from a spectator standpoint, and that is about all those guys really want to play anyway. 
I don’t know that anyone other than an in his prime Tiger could have really made this happen. BDC, old man Mickeltits, Justin Rose, Jason K and DJ does not a viable break away tour make, obviously. 

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9 minutes ago, Lurch said:

Still on Team Fuck Phil, but this is a good explainer thread despite his conclusion
 

Yep. This is totally and completely true. When I read Phil had to pay the tour 7 figures to have the right to put on “the match” with Tiger I didn’t understand where that was coming from. 
these guys on tour aren’t guaranteed anything. They pay to enter tournaments and might make 0, on top of travel costs and coaching costs etc. It takes big money to play a tour schedule and those guys are justifiably pissed in a lot of ways I’m sure when the tour clamps down on their ability to earn.

his point about Tiger and Phil subsidizing the tour and making lots of guys tons of money at their own expense isn’t wrong. 
now, it’s not like Phils 90,000,000 earnings is remotely close to what he got out of being a professional golfer. Inwoukdninaginenaooeranxe fees, outings, sponsorships and endorsements have him making what- 250 million?  500 million?  I imagine Tiger is also around a billion as well, but most of it didn’t come from competition on the tour and some of it came despite the tour not because of it. 
Compare this to the MLB players union where they sell the rank and file out all the time to chase biggest possible dollars for the top stars, in a world where travel and costs are paid for and contracts are guaranteed and you can understand where he’s coming from. 

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The PGA isn’t the NFL or even the NBA though. The average tournament doesn’t equal shit compared to every Sunday NFL game. Michael Jordan never made what he was worth either while he was subsidizing lesser players. 
 

I tend to agree with Rory. How much do you really need?

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4 hours ago, Mileslong said:


I don’t follow the fucking schedules of every tour, I asked a fucking question about it since I didn’t know. That’s doesn’t mean Phil didn’t make one of the biggest sick moves ever by trashing the PGA Tour that made him rich.

Go listen to what other pros like JT are saying about it. The PGA could ban him for comments but won’t, however, if he and his lawyers really are involved with structuring the SDL tour then they might very well ban him and I wish they would.

So now go suck your boy BDC’s dick…

8202eaf458390296e9b3f69bfd757efd.jpg

I'm not pro-Saudi golf league. I think it's fucking stupid. And I would hope most people here are aware of where the Euro tour championship is played and that majors count as events on multiple tours. That isn't a high bar of golf knowledge. 

But, hey, sounds like you learned a few things today. 

Edited by ztejas
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14 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

I tend to agree with Rory. How much do you really need?

I love Rory. He's been my favorite golfer for over a decade. But I'm not sure he's the right person to be asking others how much money they need. I'm guessing he's banked more than everyone but Tiger and Phil. 

Also - professional athletes are professional athletes to an extent. Some of these guys could have blown a ton of cash in ways that other pros haven't. 

Edited by ztejas
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It’s not like some fat cat owners are pocketing all the money. It’s the distribution that some players are bitching about.  And the tour is attempting to address that in various ways.
You can look at tax returns and get a good idea of the financial structure. 
https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/520999206

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10 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Yep. This is totally and completely true. When I read Phil had to pay the tour 7 figures to have the right to put on “the match” with Tiger I didn’t understand where that was coming from. 
these guys on tour aren’t guaranteed anything. They pay to enter tournaments and might make 0, on top of travel costs and coaching costs etc. It takes big money to play a tour schedule and those guys are justifiably pissed in a lot of ways I’m sure when the tour clamps down on their ability to earn.

his point about Tiger and Phil subsidizing the tour and making lots of guys tons of money at their own expense isn’t wrong. 
now, it’s not like Phils 90,000,000 earnings is remotely close to what he got out of being a professional golfer. Inwoukdninaginenaooeranxe fees, outings, sponsorships and endorsements have him making what- 250 million?  500 million?  I imagine Tiger is also around a billion as well, but most of it didn’t come from competition on the tour and some of it came despite the tour not because of it. 
Compare this to the MLB players union where they sell the rank and file out all the time to chase biggest possible dollars for the top stars, in a world where travel and costs are paid for and contracts are guaranteed and you can understand where he’s coming from. 

Phil didn't pay one cent of that million. Turner Sports paid it. And the PGA Tour could have just flat out said no. That's just how media rights work.

 

Phil lying about that should probably be a clue that he's full of it. Insider trading scumbag.

 

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/mickelsons-statements-inaccurate-and-ironic-obnoxious-greed-et-tu-phil?amp

Edited by Pam Cummings
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2 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

Phil didn't pay one cent of that million. Turner Sports paid it. And the PGA Tour could have just flat out said no. That's just how media rights work.

 

Phil lying about that should probably be a clue that he's full of it. Insider trading scumbag.

 

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/mickelsons-statements-inaccurate-and-ironic-obnoxious-greed-et-tu-phil?amp

I don’t know the inner details or workings of everything going on at a tour level detail or all the issues involved. I’m merely a guy that once played at a high-ish high school level (4 year letterman, played in the state tournament once, was alternate on a team that won a state title) and was teammates and friends with a couple guys that played professionally including one who won a PGA tournament but would otherwise probably be considered a rabbit or dew sweeper and another guy who kicked around mini tours for a long time and is friends/contemporaries with guys like Chad Campbell for one that people on here who really follow golf should have heard of. 

I don’t know what Phil is saying that’s true or not, or what details have been embellished. I do know that he’s done waaaaaay more for the tour than 98% of guys out there, and a ton of people owe tons of money to him and, more specifically Tiger. 

Presumably, if Tuner was willing to pay the money to the tour on Phil’s behalf they would have also been willing to give it to him instead, either in the form of prize money or an appearance fee, so I don’t know that that particular criticism of Phil not paying is persuasive or particularly valuable. 
 

I think it’s instructive to note that the talk of many tour players swearing fealty to the tour, guys like Rory, isn’t necessarily that the tour is doing everything right but that going over to a fledgling organization is “too risky”. that makes me think that some of these guys are more risk averse than loyal, and if the competing tour gets up and running and demonstrates stability they might then be willing to move. 

The fact that it’s Phil and BDC that are the face of this thing, seemingly, is instructive. Both of those guys have their fans but are well known by people who have any glimpse beyond public persona as egotistical Dbags. There’s a reason Phil is known as Figjam around tour. He might be almost as good as he thinks he is. He might not be the messenger that is sympathetic because of those issues, but that also doesn’t mean that he is wrong about what he’s saying. Hell, I thought the PIP thing was a terrible idea as a give away to the big stars not based upon performance, until I started reading up on it and it made a lot of sense. 


Maybe, as a guy like Pat Perez said, we should be looking at some guaranteed money for these guys at the lower level and bigger money for the guys at the top of the food chain. Maybe appearance fees at tournaments on the PGA tour are appropriate for the bigger stars.  Hell, maybe how they have it designed is absolutely perfect and can’t be changed or improved upon. I don’t know well enough to have a super strong opinion one way or another on this. 


I think it’s likely, however, that there is truth and legitimacy to all stakeholders opinions. The stars are the vehicles that prop up the tour. If someone wants to come up with a champions league type set up for those stars for them to fully capitalize and bank on their marketability while they collect huge and guaranteed money I guess I can’t say I blame them one way or another if they decide that’s an appealing option. 

the Saudi’s are shit bags. that doesn’t mean there isn’t a market or opportunity for something more that can be done to cater to the guys that move the needle. The fall schedule sucks. Does anyone like the wrap around nature of the tour now where the season starts in October? Maybe the answer is moving the WGC events from 3 or 4 to 8 or 10 and counting them as tour events with smaller fields and bigger guaranteed money, and/or appearance fees. Maybe nothing should be done. I like the idea of every guy having to play somewhere over a 5 year period. If you did that it might improve some of the smaller tournaments. Trade that for appearance fees, or no cut exclusive fields, or limited requirements of total number of overall dates. 
 

 

Edited by Wulaw Horn
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20 hours ago, TonyTexas said:

DeChambeau is definite. His offer is, reportedly, in excess of $135M. Even though he’s the only one to really move the needle, competitively, I don’t think many will really miss him. 

Ya. They weren’t concrete on him. But i assume he’s going. Their top 10 signings get unlimited use of private jet for them and family. 
 

Only cool thing is the courses in America they have signed up. Maidstone in New York, Chicago golf club, Sand Hills, Ohoopee Match Play Club, and Philadelphia Cricket Club. 

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3 hours ago, ztejas said:

Rory apparently playing the Valero this year. Usually or has always taken the week prior to the Masters off. I'm sure the tournament organizers are happy to hear that. 

Rory is a savvy dude. He realized that match play rounds as a warm up before the masters is not smart.

Downside is, per him, he may skip Austin.

 

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6 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

Big blow to this nonsense. FIGJAM, BDC and the Saudis might have the lowest Q score in the history of Q scores. 

Had to look up "Figjam" nickname...

"But not everyone is a Mickelson fan. Earlier in his career, he acquired the unflattering nickname "Figjam," which is an acronym that begins with a profanity: "F---, I'm good, just ask me."   

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