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Formula 1 2022


Anton Chigurh

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Apparently Otmar says he'd be open to taking Danny back if Piastri ends up leaving for McLaren.  Would probably be the best for everyone at this point.  

I'm still unsure of what McLaren's move is here.  Are they really prepared to eat all of Danny's 2023 contract if he calls their bluff?  It's my understanding that is somewhere around $15-20 million.  Definitely losing some respect for the way Zak Brown has handled the situation so far.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/szafnauer-no-issue-in-bringing-ricciardo-back-to-alpine-f1-team/10348007/

 

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19 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Apparently Otmar says he'd be open to taking Danny back if Piastri ends up leaving for McLaren.  Would probably be the best for everyone at this point.  

I'm still unsure of what McLaren's move is here.  Are they really prepared to eat all of Danny's 2023 contract if he calls their bluff?  It's my understanding that is somewhere around $15-20 million.  Definitely losing some respect for the way Zak Brown has handled the situation so far.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/szafnauer-no-issue-in-bringing-ricciardo-back-to-alpine-f1-team/10348007/

 

I think a Piastri-Ricciardo switch makes the most sense for everyone involved, but I doubt McLaren will be willing to pay his full buyout, so Alpine would need to pay Danny Ric a market value contract to offset some of the McL buyout, and I'm not sure Alpine would be willing to make that work since I'm sure they're mad at McLaren for how all this has gone down. 

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2 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

I think a Piastri-Ricciardo switch makes the most sense for everyone involved, but I doubt McLaren will be willing to pay his full buyout, so Alpine would need to pay Danny Ric a market value contract to offset some of the McL buyout, and I'm not sure Alpine would be willing to make that work since I'm sure they're mad at McLaren for how all this has gone down. 

If Danny calls Zak's bluff, McLaren is going to pay for both Danny and Piastri next year, so them footing at least part of the bill for Danny's salary for 2023 wouldn't surprise me.

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3 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

If Danny calls Zak's bluff, McLaren is going to pay for both Danny and Piastri next year, so them footing at least part of the bill for Danny's salary for 2023 wouldn't surprise me.

Right. They'll absolutely be paying Danny something, but whatever Alpine pay Danny Ric can go towards paying Piastri so McLaren will still be paying about the same amount. I could also see Piastri taking a smaller salary next year just to get in the seat and then getting paid substantially more after 2023. 

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12 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

I think a Piastri-Ricciardo switch makes the most sense for everyone involved, but I doubt McLaren will be willing to pay his full buyout, so Alpine would need to pay Danny Ric a market value contract to offset some of the McL buyout, and I'm not sure Alpine would be willing to make that work since I'm sure they're mad at McLaren for how all this has gone down. 

at this point the best hope for Danny Ric is to move over to Alpine and get additional years on his current deal.

he has been pretty clear he doesn't want to be done with F1, so doubt they can stash him in Extreme E or Formula E or wherever

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12 minutes ago, NoName said:

at this point the best hope for Danny Ric is to move over to Alpine and get additional years on his current deal.

he has been pretty clear he doesn't want to be done with F1, so doubt they can stash him in Extreme E or Formula E or wherever

Yeah, his best shot at a seat that's not a backmarker in 2024 is to use this situation to leverage Alpine into a multi-year deal. Otherwise, his only options for 2024 might be Haas or Williams, so it would make sense for him to settle with McLaren if he can switch to Alpine. 

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3 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Yeah, his best shot at a seat that's not a backmarker in 2024 is to use this situation to leverage Alpine into a multi-year deal. Otherwise, his only options for 2024 might be Haas or Williams, so it would make sense for him to settle with McLaren if he can switch to Alpine. 

I don't think he goes to Alpine without at least a 2 year deal, but I could be wrong.

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Just now, Chewbacca said:

I don't think he goes to Alpine without at least a 2 year deal, but I could be wrong.

Right. That's what I'm saying.  Alpine have literally no one to drive for them next year now, so Danny Ric can use that as leverage to get multiple years out of them if he hops over starting next year. 

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21 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Right. That's what I'm saying.  Alpine have literally no one to drive for them next year now, so Danny Ric can use that as leverage to get multiple years out of them if he hops over starting next year. 

I still can't believe they signed Ocon to a contract through 2024.

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20 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

If Danny calls Zak's bluff, McLaren is going to pay for both Danny and Piastri next year, so them footing at least part of the bill for Danny's salary for 2023 wouldn't surprise me.

I have no real sense of budgets in F1, but was under the impression the biggest teams spend in the low hundreds of millions annually (e.g. ~$150 million) while drivers -- except for the biggest names like Max and Lewis -- make in the ones of millions. Am I way off base?

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21 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I have no real sense of budgets in F1, but was under the impression the biggest teams spend in the low hundreds of millions annually (e.g. ~$150 million) while drivers -- except for the biggest names like Max and Lewis -- make in the ones of millions. Am I way off base?

Pre-budget cap, the big teams spent about $500mm per year. There’s a lot of stuff outside the budget, including engines, so the big teams probably still spend north of $300mm. 
 

As for Drivers Danny Ric makes $20 or $25mm, can’t remember which. Both Carlos and Charles make 8 figures per year.  Piastri could probably be signed for fairly cheap (7 figures) in 2023 since he’s a rookie who needs a seat. 

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59 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I have no real sense of budgets in F1, but was under the impression the biggest teams spend in the low hundreds of millions annually (e.g. ~$150 million) while drivers -- except for the biggest names like Max and Lewis -- make in the ones of millions. Am I way off base?

I had no idea Zak was so fond of Lando: T3 on grid along side a two-time champion.

Pos Driver Team Age Salary (GBP £) Salary (USD $) Salary (EUR €)
1 Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 37 £32m $40m €38m
2 Max Verstappen Red Bull 24 £20m $25m €23.75m
3 Fernando Alonso Alpine 40 £16m $20m €19m
Lando Norris McLaren 22 £16m $20m €19m
5 Sebastian Vettel Aston Martin 34 £12m $15m €14.25m
Daniel Ricciardo McLaren 32 £12m $15m €14.25m
7 Charles Leclerc Ferrari 24 £9.6m $12m €11.4m
8 Valtteri Bottas Alfa Romeo 32 £8m $10m €9.5m
Lance Stroll Aston Martin 23 £8m $10m €9.5m
Carlos Sainz Jnr Ferrari 27 £8m $10m €9.5m
11 Sergio Perez Red Bull 32 £6.4m $8m €7.6m
12 Kevin Magnussen Haas 29 £4.8m $6m €5.7m
13 Pierre Gasly AlphaTauri 26 £4m $5m €4.75m
Esteban Ocon Alpine 25 £4m $5m €4.75m
George Russell Mercedes 24 £4m $5m €4.75m
16 Alexander Albon Williams 26 £1.6m $2m €1.9m
17 Mick Schumacher Haas 22 £800,000 $1m €950,000
Zhou Guanyu Alfa Romeo 22 £800,000 $1m €950,000
Nicholas Latifi Williams 26 £800,000 $1m €950,000
20 Yuki Tsunoda AlphaTauri 21 £600,000 $750,000 €712,500

And contract length.

Driver Team Contract end
Max Verstappen Red Bull 2028
Lando Norris McLaren 2025
Charles Leclerc Ferrari 2024
Esteban Ocon Alpine 2024
Valtteri Bottas Alfa Romeo 2024
Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 2023
George Russell Mercedes 2023
Daniel Ricciardo McLaren 2023
Pierre Gasly AlphaTauri 2023
Kevin Magnussen Haas 2023
Sergio Perez Red Bull 2024
Carlos Sainz Ferrari 2024
Fernando Alonso Aston Martin 2025
Yuki Tsunoda AlphaTauri 2022
Piastri? Danny Ric? A fellow Surly asshole? Who knows... Alpine ????
Lance Stroll Aston Martin 2022
Alex Albon Williams 2024
Nicholas Latifi Williams 2022
Guanyu Zhou Alfa Romeo 2022
Mick Schumacher Haas 2022

 

 

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Man, lot of guys high on that list that don't seem worth the money they are earning.

Alonso through Ricciardo, WTF? And Stroll? 

Edit. Alonso may be worth it in a good ride. 

Edited by FirstTimeCaller
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41 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Man, lot of guys high on that list that don't seem worth the money they are earning.

Alonso through Ricciardo, WTF? And Stroll? 

Edit. Alonso may be worth it in a good ride. 

While not strong at all, the only argument you could make for Danny is that he is one of the most marketable drivers on the grid. He brings McLaren a ton of money outside of the track. Even then that amount is still too much for him at this point in his career. 

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1 minute ago, DoneWithit said:

While not strong at all, the only argument you could make for Danny is that he is one of the most marketable drivers on the grid. He brings McLaren a ton of money outside of the track. Even then that amount is still too much for him at this point in his career. 

Yeah definite good point. 

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2 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Man, lot of guys high on that list that don't seem worth the money they are earning.

Alonso through Ricciardo, WTF? And Stroll? 

Edit. Alonso may be worth it in a good ride. 

When you consider how much money Stroll's old man has wasted so that he can wreck or finish in the bottom 5 in Formula 1 races, $10 million more per year is a rounding error.

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On 7/24/2022 at 7:36 AM, TonyTexas said:

I didn’t get into F1 until after Nico Rosberg retired. A brief look at his Wiki page reveals an interesting guy. Smart as hell. Movie star looks.  Retired on top and now living the good life in Monaco, running an ice cream shop. What kind of driver was he?

They don't call him Brittney for nothing.

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On 7/27/2022 at 1:51 PM, Mittens said:

Does that mean Honda is 100% out of F1 now?  I'm not feeling sorry for multibillion dollar international corporations, but I definitely have a soft spot for Honda powerplants in Formula 1.  Nostalgia and whatnot.

Given that Porsche is my favorite car manufacturer ever, I might have to go all in on RBR.  Checo, of course, but still...

I guess they'd be out as soon as Porsche steps in, but iirc that's not until 2026. Officially, they're already out, but that's still a Honda PU in that car. It just doesn't say Honda on it.

I also read a rumor the other day about Honda already wanting back into F1. I guess in 2026 also.

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On 7/28/2022 at 8:54 AM, ConferenceRoom said:

The low point for me with Seb was Multi 21, but he's come such a long way from that. Smart and conscientious with pretty good senses of humor and humility. He'll be a big miss on the grid. But new blood is always welcome, so here's hoping we get a good one. 

I heard his replacement is pretty decent.

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On 7/28/2022 at 7:44 AM, utee94 said:

I never liked him much but he was growing on me in recent years.  I'd rather he stayed but it's probably time for some of the older guys to move on and make some room.

Except for Fred.  I hope he stays forever. 

Maybe he won't be there forever, unfortunately, but 3 more years isn't bad.

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On 8/1/2022 at 7:08 AM, PittsburghTiger said:

Nor did I. I was just thinking a few hours ago about asking if anyone heard of any replacements for Vettel, you know, young guys on the rise. Now this.This quote from Alonso, from the Formula 1 website, though I just don't see it. I wanted it to be true for Vettel but, even though they have hired a ton of people the results are sparse.

...

IMHO the key hire for them was when they pulled Dan Fallows from RBR. He only started with AM in April, after the car was done.

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On 8/1/2022 at 7:12 AM, utee94 said:

Alpine seems more competitive than AM.   Another in a long string of bad Fred choices?

 

They are, atm, but imho the upside at AM is higher. Alpine are also a clown show on the business side. They painted themselves into a corner by extending Ocon too soon, which limited  their options severely, then tried to keep Alonso on a 1 year deal and farm Piastri out. They could have had Alonso in one seat, with Piastri learnbing from him in the other. Instead, it appears they managed to lose them both.

So Alpine were limited by the early extension of Ocon, and tried to offer Alonso a 1 year deal when they knew he wanted more. AM offered 3, and more money. So he took it.

Re: the long string of 'bad' Fred choices, it's only with 20/20 hindsight that we can say they were bad choices. At the time, nobody was saying he shouldn't go to Renault, McLaren the first time, or Ferrari. Nobody saw RBR coming as a dominant team. His second stint at McLaren, he was rolling the dice on Honda, having seen more than enough of the Ferrari clown show to know that a championship wasn't happening there anytime soon. Honda shit the bed, so that didn't work out. 

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On 8/1/2022 at 7:37 AM, Anton Chigurh said:


Sounds like he wanted more than a 1 year deal which Alpine wouldn’t do because of Piastri. Which is fair, since they aren’t fighting for wins anyway and he wants a big salary, and Alpine does want Piastri in the car sooner rather than later.

I'm not sure how big of a salary Alonso wanted, but I'm sure he wanted to be paid more than the teammate he's consistently quicker than. And they could have had Alonso and Piastri had they not stupidly extended Ocon months ago. Now they have ... Ocon. And that's it.

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@utee94 I see you qualified that, and I agree it was often just timing and the whole 'not having a crystal ball' thing. He could have gone to RBR right before their run started, but instead he chose Ferrari. Nobody at the time was telling him he should have gone to RBR.

BTW, y'all ... sorry for 50 posts in a row. Been in Europe since 7/20 & just got back. Tryna catch up.

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On 8/1/2022 at 8:34 AM, kevwun said:

I doubt they came to an agreement that fast.  I would bet it's been in the works since Vettel announced he was retiring.  It probably played in to Alonso not giving a shit and letting Ocon know about it though.

I read somewhere that AM were already talking to Alonso, and knew Vettel was waivering, so they asked him what he wanted to do, which led to his retirement announcement. AM also tried to pull Alonso first before they hired Vettel.

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On 8/1/2022 at 9:24 AM, NoName said:

close racing != passing though

doing away with DRS leads to fewer passes, which leads to less interesting races, which makes the technical job teams do WAY more important

at the Azerbaijan GP, Red Bull was 25km/h faster than FER on the long straight:

  • FERRARI 321 km/h
  • RBR 331 km/h
  • MER 317 km/h
  • ALPINE 329 km/h
  • AT 328 km/h
  • HAAS 318 km/h
  • ALFA 316 km/h

that isn't going to make for interesting races or growth of the sport.

i agree that medium to long term, getting away from DRS is the right move. but right now? no thanks.

I disagree that taking it away would make the races less interesting. More passing doesn't automatically make for a better race. I'd rather see 1 great battle that ends with no passes than 10 easy DRS drivebys. And DRS also deprives us of many good battles that do end in passes.

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On 8/3/2022 at 1:55 PM, NoName said:

I still can't believe they signed Ocon to a contract through 2024.

Yeah it's pretty fucking bizarre. "Ocon is our 2nd or 3rd best driver, so we better lock him up & then let the Piastri/Alonso chips fall where they may". Fucking idiots.

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5 hours ago, wood said:

Yeah it's pretty fucking bizarre. "Ocon is our 2nd or 3rd best driver, so we better lock him up & then let the Piastri/Alonso chips fall where they may". Fucking idiots.

I could understand if they were like Williams or Alfa and wanted to lock in a decent dude for a while. Or even if they were Haas and they believed in Ocon a ton. Just seems super strange and not like a good strategic decision

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