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Ukraine War


BehoId, The Underminer!

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In case anyone wants to read another view point concerning Putin’s thinking. I’ve subscribed to Russian Life for years… they sent an email out today stating they would be suspending publication out of fear for the safety of their correspondents in Russia.

https://www.russianlife.com/stories/online/why-putin-invaded-ukraine/?goal=0_2e99ba62b2-aff19223f1-191233569&mc_cid=aff19223f1&mc_eid=690e8fa84a

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Does Ukraine really have a bunch of trained fighter pilots waiting around without planes? They seem to be doing a pretty good job denying Russia air superiority with whatever air force they've got and the basically infinite stingers we're giving them. 

Typical Russian combat pilots fly 60-100 hours per year per my googling. So maybe 5-10 pilots at any one time might be cycling on each aircraft. Multiply that by the MiG 29 being in service for 40 years and you’ve got a lot of people with experience flying them in comparison to how many are in inventory.
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5 hours ago, F250 said:

All of this is irrelevant. If a nation has an underlining ideology that guides their policies then it's important to understand it. It doesn't matter if you agree with it or not.

At this point we are in the Holy Roman Empire was neither Holy nor Roman territory.

 

No one is saying it is not important to understand, but it is more important to pay attention to the actions than the rhetoric or the lofty ideal of some founder that seems to have long been cast aside by successors.    To the earlier point about the transitionary period, this undefined phase, with undefined goals, and an undefined timeline seems a rather, enduring.      

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1 hour ago, Caponata said:

 

Have some history, if your too young to remember.

Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

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6 minutes ago, Nivek said:

No one is saying it is not important to understand, but it is more important to pay attention to the actions than the rhetoric or the lofty ideal of some founder that seems to have long been cast aside by successors.    To the earlier point about the transitionary period, this undefined phase, with undefined goals, and an undefined timeline seems a rather, enduring.      

So then you agree, communist.

 

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16 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Add a couple years to that and we all get Physical Graffiti.

Add nothing and we get Dark Side of the Moon. And Wake of the Flood. And Over-Nite Sensation. And Larks’ Tongues in Aspic...

Oh! And Countdown to Ecstasy!

Edited by WhatTheBuck
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This has probably been discussed at some point, but I haven't seen it.  Why couldn't the jets be positioned some place like Austria and have the Ukranian pilots fly them from there?  Austria isn't part of NATO.  Russia isn't going to directly retaliate militarily without going through NATO airspace.  I assume someone has already looked at this and decided it would still be too provocative.  

… how exactly would one fly from Austria to Ukraine without entering NATO airspace?
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6 hours ago, Eggo said:

Oh don't be such a bitch. If you're going to post wikipedia links with no context as some sort of point, you deserve the dismissive reply you get. 

there's plenty of context in those links

i like you and don't want to go further with this if we can just move on

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8 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

The Chinese disposition was always a poor match for communism. They are hyper capitalists at heart. That's just the culture. Hell, my grandmother would haggle with McDonald's worker at the mall to get a 10 cent discount on a hamburger. 

 

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Remember former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovich? She testified at Trump’s first impeachment trial after he tried to extort Ukrainian President Zelensky by threatening to withhold Congressionally authorized military aid unless he announced an investigation into Trump’s political opponent. Remember her? Her testimony was pretty compelling, not that it held any sway with the corrupt GQP.

191115newsmarieyovanovitch-editorial.jpg

Well, she’s written a book and gotten a makeover.

9780358533313.jpg

This is her now:

F64339CF-F338-406D-9DC5-612023DD86E9.thumb.png.5abe79a9b49c43aa6182adf09b6dfdec.png

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6 hours ago, Woland said:

In case anyone wants to read another view point concerning Putin’s thinking. I’ve subscribed to Russian Life for years… they sent an email out today stating they would be suspending publication out of fear for the safety of their correspondents in Russia.

https://www.russianlife.com/stories/online/why-putin-invaded-ukraine/?goal=0_2e99ba62b2-aff19223f1-191233569&mc_cid=aff19223f1&mc_eid=690e8fa84a

Emotion Reaction GIF

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8 hours ago, gmr548 said:


… how exactly would one fly from Austria to Ukraine without entering NATO airspace?

I never claimed you would. Is that a requirement? Have we drawn a redline on any Ukrainian soldier, pilot or equipment passing through NATO countries? The concern I've heard around jets is having NATO pilots flying in Ukraine or using NATO facilities/bases to stage and launch from.  An Austrian model avoids those aspects.

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8 hours ago, gmr548 said:


… how exactly would one fly from Austria to Ukraine without entering NATO airspace?

Rereading my post, it may not have been clear.  What I meant was, if Russia wanted to retaliate against Austria they would have to go through NATO airspace and that's not something they're going to do.

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55 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

We are lucky AF that Donny isn't potus right now. 

 

8 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

Putin would be shaking hands with his puppet president in Kyiv right now if Donny was potus. 

Before he was banned, Trump had tweets mentioning Ukraine. Obviously I cannot embed them as his account is for all practical purposes not accessible. However, through the archive, here is a choice tweet or two from some years back:

AUGUST 1, 2016: "When I said in an interview that Putin is "not going into Ukraine, you can mark it down," I am saying if I am President. Already in Crimea!

JUNE 20, 2017: It was a great honor to welcome President Petro Poroshenko of Ukraine to the @WhiteHouse today with @VP Pence

 

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3 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

We were shocked and astounded that Russia invaded Ukraine, a country that it had already partially invaded twice in eight years.  Few of us even at the heights of power saw another actual military operation except for the American president who warned us about it for over a month. And also the Secretary of State and the NATO Secretary General. Other than them, who are not at the highest levels, no one saw this coming. 

 

 

Putin’s nationalist ravings and post-hoc justifications— propaganda or real? It’s a mystery, destined to be lost to the sands of time. 
 

Were Russian troops and equipment in eastern Ukraine? Another mystery lost to the sands of time, no one know for sure. Just like how no one knows for sure that a Russian missile in that region shot down a civilian airliner. On the one hand we have an extensive and carefully crafted investigation including eyewitnesses, satellite imagery, debris from the crash site,  and communications between the Russian military and separatists. On the other hand, Russia says it wasn’t them.

Skirmeshes erupted. Like a volcano, a true tragedy that no one could have foreseen or stopped. Along the border of Ukraine and these regions, which are also Ukraine, but lets call it a border.

Many Ukrainians opted to join forces with the Nazis, and Russia never forgot that. Just like many Russians decided to fight with the Nazis, and Russia did forget that. But they weren’t Ukrainians, so that’s important. Also, the USSR was homegrown in Ukraine, like the wheat from its black soil or Kievan Rus, it is known that the Soviet regime was birthed and nurtured in Ukraine, except for the Ukrainians who fought against it and declared i dependence. But they later became Nazis and therefore, foreign. 

 

250,000 fought for the Nazis. 4.5 million for the Soviets. 

 

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12 hours ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

For time frame reference, 1973 is closer to this than is today. 

Also, I'm old. 

The time increment involved is also similar to that between the overthrow of Mohammad Mosaddegh and the Iranian revolution. 

 

Edited by Anastasis
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1 hour ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

Putin would be shaking hands with his puppet president in Kyiv right now if Donny was potus. 

So much this.  I don't understand how Trumpaloos can say with a straight face "This never would have happened if TFG were still president." 

I mean, I can, because brain worms, but it takes an extraordinary amount of mental gymnastics/cognitive dissonance to be of the opinion that Putin would have been so afraid of Dotard that he never would have thought to invade Ukraine again.

Do you even Helsinki bro?

Trump-Putin-16-July-2018.jpg

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2 hours ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

Putin would be shaking hands with his puppet president in Kyiv right now if Donny was potus. 

And Trump would be flying over, to meet with the Puppet.  Lots of cheap available real estate in Novorossiya, to gild.

Edited by horn4life
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33 minutes ago, The Royal We said:

So much this.  I don't understand how Trumpaloos can say with a straight face "This never would have happened if TFG were still president." 

I mean, I can, because brain worms, but it takes an extraordinary amount of mental gymnastics/cognitive dissonance to be of the opinion that Putin would have been so afraid of Dotard that he never would have thought to invade Ukraine again.

Do you even Helsinki bro?

Trump-Putin-16-July-2018.jpg

All it takes is the ability to copy and paste. Thinking takes effort. They don’t do that. 

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17 hours ago, cactusflinthead said:

Rot in hell Putin

Total war terrorism. I don't know that Putin can find a way to conduct this war in an any worse manner.

Bomb civilians or children's hospitals anywhere and you don't make them want to capitulate. You make them furious with rage. They don't want to wave a white flag. They want revenge.

It's a mistake we make over and over because we think every war is WWII where our boys will be cheered as liberators. We have a hard time with the simple lesson that people don't much like invaders of any kind. 

The number of Ukraine patriots willing to seriously risk their lives to launch a missile or shoot a soldier has just gone up. 

I don't think Putin is insane. I think he just keeps compounding the bad decision to invade Ukraine with increasingly horrific decisions. He's completely undone whatever he'd achieved in making NATO less stable and the democracies of the world less resolved.

 

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1 hour ago, The Royal We said:

So much this.  I don't understand how Trumpaloos can say with a straight face "This never would have happened if TFG were still president." 

I mean, I can, because brain worms, but it takes an extraordinary amount of mental gymnastics/cognitive dissonance to be of the opinion that Putin would have been so afraid of Dotard that he never would have thought to invade Ukraine again.

Do you even Helsinki bro?

Trump-Putin-16-July-2018.jpg

To be capable of cognitive dissonance, one first must practice cognition.

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One can suffer from a variety of mental disorders without being "insane".  The term is largely a matter of law.

More than any other diagnoses from afar, it seems most psychologists and psychiatrists I've seen discussing Donald Trump land on narcissistic personality disorder.  Putin could be in a similar boat.  It doesn't mean that, by definition, he can't distinguish reality from fantasy.  Most likely, he simply doesn't care.  He certainly doesn't seem to possess any high-level concern for the lives of others.

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