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Realignment talk not going away


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7 hours ago, Crockett said:

Is your burdened, broken-down example supposed to represent UT? I had no idea it's been so hard for you. My deepest sympathies.  

I can't wait to see all of you sitting on each other's coattails, wondering why the gravy train ain't moving...

No, the Big 12 members did step up after aggy left.  That one got their attention, but the writing was on the wall, and neither OU or Texas could let the money divide keep getting wider. Texas probably would've set right a little longer, but OU couldn't afford to. Which at that time, Texas couldn't afford to have lost both aggy and OU....  The benefits of moving outweighed those of staying. 

 

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10 minutes ago, Gaffords said:

I can't wait to see all of you sitting on each other's coattails, wondering why the gravy train ain't moving...

Texas' very existence is due to an incredible gravy train.

#onlystateschool

#wediditourselves

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42 minutes ago, Cuernavaca said:

Yes, oil money is responsible for a bulk of the endowment, but the thing is.... we still would have been your big brother even if we never extracted a drop. 

PUF doesn’t even make up half of the endowment anymore. They raised over $3 billion nearly a decade ago just from bugging the shit out of our alumni.

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Sorry if this has already been posted...I didn't see it, but that doesn't mean it wasn't.

You know it's bad when they have to issue this statement.  That's akin to an AD releasing a statement that they fully support a coach.  

EDIT:  I see now it was posted with subsequent conversations.  My bad.  I missed Monday altogether apparently.

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1 minute ago, Uncle Nate said:

Sorry if this has already been posted...I didn't see it, but that doesn't mean it wasn't.

You know it's bad when they have to issue this statement.  That's akin to an AD releasing a statement that they fully support a coach.  

 

That's a kiss of death if I've ever seen one.

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2 hours ago, TKthunder2 said:

PUF in 2022 was valued at $24billion. Only 2/3 of that is for UT so $16 billion for the entire UT system.

The endowment for the entire UT system is $43 billion as of 2021.

So the PUF only makes up 37% of the UT System endowment.

I always thought that the other $27 billion is mostly $ that came from the PUF that was re-invested into various other things. Is that not accurate? 

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4 hours ago, Josef Pwag said:

I always thought that the other $27 billion is mostly $ that came from the PUF that was re-invested into various other things. Is that not accurate? 

No, most of that was raised. The PUF doesn’t get dispersed to the general endowment. The AUF gets distributed annually to pay interest on PUF bonds pulled for capital improvements and cannot go towards operational costs.

Most of the non PUF endowment comes from fund raising. 2006-2014 $3billion was raised. 2016-2022 $3.3 billion was raised.

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/03/05/university-texas-fundraising-endowment/

https://www.texastribune.org/2014/09/02/ut-austin-mission-accomplished-forh-3-billion-camp/

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OSU flaking on the UW game is such a bitch move. They don't want 2 WC games in the same season but USC & UCLA are about to have 4-5 trips to the Midwest/EC every year? Pussies.

I have a hard time believing the big dogs in the ACC are going to stand pat for the next 10+ years while the B1G & SEC schools are making 3X what they're making from the TV deals. I know there are a lot of hurdles for those schools, but I give it 5 years max before announcements start to be made about FSU, Clemson, UNC, Virginia, ND, & Miami

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10 minutes ago, camel at sea said:

That map also makes me think the Big 12's eastern flank will eventually end up backfilling the ACC after it loses a few to the SEC.  

This has always been the case.

The ACC is not really in danger of falling out of the P5 because they have many quality backfill options.

WVU, Cincy, UConn, Memphis and if they lose FSU/Miami they’d take UCF/USF and still have a pretty solid conference.

Worse case example: BC, UConn, Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, Cincy, Lville, Memphis, Duke, Wake, UCF, USF

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28 minutes ago, TKthunder2 said:

This has always been the case.

The ACC is not really in danger of falling out of the P5 because they have many quality backfill options.

WVU, Cincy, UConn, Memphis and if they lose FSU/Miami they’d take UCF/USF and still have a pretty solid conference.

Worse case example: BC, UConn, Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, Cincy, Lville, Memphis, Duke, Wake, UCF, USF

Yeah.  The ACC also has an advantage of having fewer schools that move the financial needle for the B1G or SEC than people seem to think.  If Oregon and Washington weren't takes...  which ACC schools are Big Ten takes?  FSU and Clemson would both be in the bottom half of the SEC with respect to fan support and financial resources.  Do they add enough to split the pie into more slices?  

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21 minutes ago, Magus Ossis said:

Can the Big12 schools left behind or joining now afford to pay the exit penalty with the money they'd get for going ACC? GOR aside, there is a significant payment ostensibly required to depart.

Everything is negotiable.  If the Big 12 didn't mind them going, the exit money would be low.   

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7 minutes ago, camel at sea said:

Yeah.  The ACC also has an advantage of having fewer schools that move the financial needle for the B1G or SEC than people seem to think.  If Oregon and Washington weren't takes...  which ACC schools are Big Ten takes?  FSU and Clemson would both be in the bottom half of the SEC with respect to fan support and financial resources.  Do they add enough to split the pie into more slices?  

Yeah none, and the two everyone wants, UVA/UNC, are the core of the ACC and its biggest power brokers.   The rest of the conference kind of orbits around that relationship and, if you think the Pac looks down on the Big 12, UVA/UNC feel that way about all the other conferences, except maybe the Ivy.   I can't see how they'd be pried away unless the rest of the conference fractures.  But, outside them, all anyone else is going to want is FSU or Clemson, so it won't fracture enough.   And, while money is more, I am pretty sure both AD's run off massive trusts.

They're also both basketball heavy schools.  UVA students earn points for each sporting event they attend, but not to get them better seats at football games - points they get going to football games (or women's soccer or LAX, or whatever) gets them priority seats at men's basketball games.

I see the ACC thing being a Clemson/FSU issue, not an ACC issue.

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On 2/15/2023 at 6:30 PM, Crockett said:

It certainly won't hurt, but you make a fair point. What may end up having the most positive impact is that we are now in a power conference with better access to the playoff (theoretically) and the 4 and 5 star Mormon/LDS recruits that would often pick P5 schools will be more willing to go to BYU. 

Utah's coach said about 1/3 of his athletes were Samoan.  BYU will start getting more of those.

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It feels like the PAC is f***ed, right now. Amazon wants a GOR which Washington and Oregon won’t sign, right now. I think there’s enough local pressure to make UDub sign. That leaves Oregon. I think if it’s 9 against 1, they’ll eventually come on board. Their PAC alternatives are ugly. 
 

ESPN is smart to just hang around the basket to pick up the PAC Friday night and Saturday late night windows. For once, they’re not bidding against themselves. 

I think the SEC money will be fine, but I don’t expect it to stupid good. ESPN seems to using some fiscal discipline now. 

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1 hour ago, billfromlaketravis said:

It feels like the PAC is f***ed, right now. Amazon wants a GOR which Washington and Oregon won’t sign, right now. I think there’s enough local pressure to make UDub sign. That leaves Oregon. I think if it’s 9 against 1, they’ll eventually come on board. Their PAC alternatives are ugly. 
 

ESPN is smart to just hang around the basket to pick up the PAC Friday night and Saturday late night windows. For once, they’re not bidding against themselves. 

I think the SEC money will be fine, but I don’t expect it to stupid good. ESPN seems to using some fiscal discipline now. 

That 9 to 1 situation doesn't matter too much if Oregon knows that leaving will guarantee several of those 9 decide to follow.  It's just a question of whether Nike wants to bury its investment in Oregon athletics on Amazon Prime, or not.  Maybe they'll do it but I have a hard time believing it.  

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10 hours ago, Josef Pwag said:

I always thought that the other $27 billion is mostly $ that came from the PUF that was re-invested into various other things. Is that not accurate? 

Only if and until an Amendment to the Constitution of The State of Texas is adopted, passed and memorialized, which finally and formally separates the Agricultural and Mechanical Department from it's current parent, The University, only if and until the Department is severed from it's parasitic attack on it's host, only then can the PUF be accurately and formally subdivided BY LAW.

aggy steals 1/3rd of the AUF every year, but it is entirely by tradition that UTIMCO documents refer to the agroid's annual AUF payment.

BY LAW, aggy do not own any endowment managed by UTIMCO, regardless of anything one can read on their website or in their charter.

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24 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

Only if and until an Amendment to the Constitution of The State of Texas is adopted, passed and memorialized, which finally and formally separates the Agricultural and Mechanical Department from it's current parent, The University, only if and until the Department is severed from it's parasitic attack on it's host, only then can the PUF be accurately and formally subdivided BY LAW.

aggy steals 1/3rd of the AUF every year, but it is entirely by tradition that UTIMCO documents refer to the agroid's annual AUF payment.

BY LAW, aggy do not own any endowment managed by UTIMCO, regardless of anything one can read on their website or in their charter.

aggy was a concession to protect the PUF from all Texas public school comers. I would have offered them something at or under 20%, but... here we are. I guess a third motivates them to get off their asses when Coug High and Tech try to take a bite. 

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I would seriously be considering packing up and heading east...

FOX had no interest in renewing. ESPN is only interested in filling it's 10pm EST slot. CBS and Turner only came for the coffee and donuts. NBC didn't even do that...  I'd say that PAC stocks are in the dirt. 

Do you stay out west for obviously less money, while using the years you make the playoffs to make up for the exposure Prime isn't going to get you?

Or do you head east for more money and the amount exposure that playing in timezones where college football is relevant will get you? 

Bringing in SMU and SDSU doesn't fix the lack of interest in the Pac, any more than one game against SMU (for some) help with getting you exposure.

I wonder if Amazon really understands college football fans? I don't know what kinds of returns Amazon is banking on, but I have a suspicion it's going to fall way short, and this will be yet another Prime project that cost them millions...  Well they probably won't lost money, because it's going to go for clearance prices... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I think ESPN’s B12 contract will be a good i brand Fox’s not. When ESPN is broadcasting a (for example) UH-TT game, it won’t have a TAMU-Ole Miss game opposite it. When Fox broadcasts a Baylor-TCU game, ESPN will make sure a Texas-Arkansas is on at the same time. 

Edited by statsman
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Front Office Sports' Latest:

As Networks Pull Out, Amazon ‘Playing Hardball’ With Pac-12

The silk gloves have come off in media rights negotiations between Amazon and the Pac-12 Conference. And here comes the steel fist that’s helped make Amazon the country’s dominant e-commerce company.  

Amazon is “playing hardball” in media rights negotiations with the hapless college conference, sources told Front Office Sports.

The tech giant is holding out for the best game matchups and best financial terms, sources said. 

Founder Jeff Bezos’ Amazon didn’t grow to $513 billion in annual revenue by playing nice. If the Pac-12 thinks it’s going to get rich from Amazon, they’re mistaken, sources said.  

And the more bidders who drop out of negotiations, the more leverage Amazon has over the conference. 

Both CBS Sports and Warner Bros. Discovery Sports are out of bidding, according to Brett McMurphy of Action Network.

All this comes, of course, just days after the conference issued a statement saying they expected to ink a new media rights package “in the near future” — and characterized the negotiations as “positive.”

That leaves Amazon, Fox Sports, NBC, and ESPN among a dwindling list of suitors for the Conference of Champions.

The problem for the Pac-12 is most of the big media entities have inked football deals in recent years. Or they’re hoarding cash as the U.S. advertising market weakens and an economic recession looms. 

In August, the Big Ten finalized a seven-year rights deal with Fox, NBC, and CBS worth a record $7 billion. So put down Fox as a longshot.

NBC is all-in with the Big Ten and Notre Dame. 

The Peacock network’s new Big Ten deal runs through the 2029-2030 season. Its longtime deal for Fighting Irish home games runs through the 2025 season. So they can probably be counted out, too. 

Amazon already has its big pro football deal in place with the NFL, paying $1 billion a year to exclusively stream “Thursday Night Football” through 2033. Do they need the Pac-12? Probably only on their own terms.

Then there’s Walt Disney Co. The majority owner of ESPN has outbid competitors over the decades for college football rights. But Disney has suddenly discovered the virtues of frugality. 

During a conference call with analysts, returning chief executive officer Bob Iger warned the entertainment giant will be more “selective” about expensive sports rights.

“I’ve had long conversations about this with (ESPN president) Jimmy Pitaro. And we’ve got some decisions that we have to make coming up — not anything particularly large, but on a few things, and we’re simply going to have to get more selective,” Iger said.

After all, ESPN already re-upped with the Big 12. And the network has expressed interest in retaining NCAA championship media rights, sources previously told FOS. The NCAA Division I women’s basketball tournament alone will likely be worth more than twice the $34 million a year that ESPN is currently paying.

The Pac-12’s current 12-year deals with Fox and ESPN run until 2024 and carry an average annual value of $250 million. 

But USC and UCLA are bolting for the rival Big Ten in 2024. The loss of those two prominent schools, and most of the Los Angeles TV market, is weighing heavily on Commissioner George Kliavkoff’s negotiating options.

Both the Pac-12 and Amazon declined to comment.

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There’s really no point to the Pac going forward.  You have two programs with fanbases and facilities that are MWC level, and two that are completely disinterested in revenue sport success.  The other 6 have a seat waiting in the Big 12 that will pay more and give them better exposure, as well as partners that care a lot about sports

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