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Original Sammy B Roberts discovered at 22,650' underwater- deepest wreck ever found


AUS-97HORN

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43 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Well, those USS Roberts swabbies certainly were gamblers. 
Even though they lost almost half their shipmates and their ship, they won the battle which saved a lot of other lives. 

Grandfather served on the USS Helena.  At their last reunion the had hats made that said Kula Gulf Swim Club.  I think there were only 3 of them left when he died a few years ago.

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On 6/24/2022 at 2:27 PM, Pato del Muerto said:

Listened to an audio book of their exploits after a rec on here. Really badass shit. 

 

11 hours ago, Macanudo said:

Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors (by James Hornfischer) is a really good account of the action .   I highly recommend it.

There it is. 

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On 6/25/2022 at 9:40 PM, Macanudo said:

Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors (by James Hornfischer) is a really good account of the action .   I highly recommend it.

Absolutely riveting book.  The image of the Hellcat and Avenger pilots doing close dry runs and firing their service pistols out of their cockpits on the Japanese ships at close range once they ran out of ordinance makes me well up every time.

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19 hours ago, RPM said:

This is a great episode of Dogfights that covers Taffy 3 and the lopsided fight they endured.

 

Good show.  The intro is kind of overstated though.  The combined Seventh/Third Fleets (or really either one) would have kicked the living shit out of the remnant of the IJN that was Center Force (and Northern and Southern Forces, for that matter), and would have gotten around to it eventually, and, in fact, did.

But due in part to Halsey's impulsiveness, Task Force 77.4.3 found itself isolated against a relatively superior force.  Had Center Force not been turned back, it probably would have fucked with the invasion quite a bit.

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On 6/25/2022 at 8:40 PM, Macanudo said:

Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors (by James Hornfischer) is a really good account of the action .   I highly recommend it.

One of the best books, period, I’ve ever read.

Talk about nuts hangin’ low.

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1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Good show.  The intro is kind of overstated though.  The combined Seventh/Third Fleets (or really either one) would have kicked the living shit out of the remnant of the IJN that was Center Force (and Northern and Southern Forces, for that matter), and would have gotten around to it eventually, and, in fact, did.

But due in part to Halsey's impulsiveness, Task Force 77.4.3 found itself isolated against a relatively superior force.  Had Center Force not been turned back, it probably would have fucked with the invasion quite a bit.

So, you’re saying Rameus was right?

Please answer me with one ping if “yes”.

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9 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Good show.  The intro is kind of overstated though.  The combined Seventh/Third Fleets (or really either one) would have kicked the living shit out of the remnant of the IJN that was Center Force (and Northern and Southern Forces, for that matter), and would have gotten around to it eventually, and, in fact, did.

 

you are forgetting the most important part about this.

IF  the "Taffy 3" group didnt turn them back, the IJN would have had 4 full size battleships (inlcuding the largest one ever made, the Yamato), 6 full size cruisers, 2 smaller cruisers and 11 destroyers shooting literally point blank into our packed landing craft and landing beaches with ZERO resistance for at least an entire day. 

We would have lost a huge percentage of our landing craft and more importantly the LST - which would have taken months, if not a year to replenish those losses. 

And the human cost... having that many massive guns firing everything into the landing beaches and the forward observation posts with literally thousands of shells, and millions of various machine gun rounds into the beaches would have probably resulted in over ten thousand casualties.... maybe more.  we would have lost more men there than we lost on the whole of D Day. 

we still lost more 1,000 men that battle from Taffy 3.   but if the Japanese had just kept their nerve, we would have lost those men, plus the rest of the Taffy squad, and all those losses taken at the beach.    even if Halsey returned and sank every single ship at that point it would have been considered a draw

and Halsey would have been fired instantly for acting so stupidly.  (Ramius was right)

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48 minutes ago, AUS-97HORN said:

you are forgetting the most important part about this.

IF  the "Taffy 3" group didnt turn them back, the IJN would have had 4 full size battleships (inlcuding the largest one ever made, the Yamato), 6 full size cruisers, 2 smaller cruisers and 11 destroyers shooting literally point blank into our packed landing craft and landing beaches with ZERO resistance for at least an entire day. 

We would have lost a huge percentage of our landing craft and more importantly the LST - which would have taken months, if not a year to replenish those losses. 

And the human cost... having that many massive guns firing everything into the landing beaches and the forward observation posts with literally thousands of shells, and millions of various machine gun rounds into the beaches would have probably resulted in over ten thousand casualties.... maybe more.  we would have lost more men there than we lost on the whole of D Day. 

we still lost more 1,000 men that battle from Taffy 3.   but if the Japanese had just kept their nerve, we would have lost those men, plus the rest of the Taffy squad, and all those losses taken at the beach.    even if Halsey returned and sank every single ship at that point it would have been considered a draw

and Halsey would have been fired instantly for acting so stupidly.  (Ramius was right)

Except that's what my last sentence said.

Also, the initial invasion force had been landed five days earlier and was well inland.  But the resupply would have been fucked, or halted.  And, I suspect the big ships would have been mostly used for shore bombardment, which probably would have been unpleasant for the troops.

Also, in the realm of speculation, the rest of Seventh Fleet would have been divided from the action in Surigao Strait, which probably would have gone less well, but it was still probably up to the task of repelling Center Force.

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On 6/25/2022 at 8:40 PM, Macanudo said:

Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors (by James Hornfischer) is a really good account of the action .   I highly recommend it.

Was coming here to post this. Great Book.

12 hours ago, Sam Lin said:

Just bought this, looking forward to the read. Thanks for the rec.

 

4 hours ago, Archer said:

Thanks for the book recommendation, I’ll add it to my Amazon list. 

You'll both enjoy the book. My Dad served on tin cans as a gunnery officer after UT and the war, but I bought him this book some years back for a Christmas present. I think he was done with it after one night. Some officers that he served under/with had been in the battle.

Dad's second ship, the USS Cowell (DD547) had been hit by a kamikaze off of Okinawa, and there is a mention of it (with I think the pilot's head scarf/ hachimaki) displayed in the Nimitz Museum in Fredericksburg.

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Battleship New Jersey YouTube put up a short video.  Their channel is fantastic if you like WWII ships - he’s done hundreds of videos pouring over every detail of the New Jersey.  For me, it’s up there with Forgotten Weapons - I’ll watch everything they put out. 

https://www.youtube.com/c/BattleshipNewJersey

 

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