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2023 Spring Practice to Fall Camp Thread - Just hook it to my veins!


BurntOrange&White

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9 hours ago, jw4381 said:

14 passes to a dude with a broken hand?

Exhibit 147 that our head coach is as dumb a jock as they come. 
 

Until he delegates offensive play calling, disappointment awaits. 
 

Rachel Dratch Snl GIF by Saturday Night Live

I couldn't believe it either, how were we not force-feeding Sanders??

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16 hours ago, closetojumping said:

2) Some buddies were there today and walked away raving. These are not the raving type and they're opinions are ... respected in this regard. One of them talked to me about the offense in ways that made me feel uncomfortable. 

This sounds like the regularly scheduled offseason post where we hear about how the team physically looks different after the offseason program. It produced nice gainz.

Edited by Mullet Free
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20 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Malik Murphy wasn't participating is interesting. Sounds like Arch is running legit #2 already.

Just doesn't seem to be a lot of info on Murphy.  I was hoping we would show something this spring.   

I guess he portals after spring ball and Wright is #3?  

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12 minutes ago, Laga4 said:

Just doesn't seem to be a lot of info on Murphy.  I was hoping we would show something this spring.   

I guess he portals after spring ball and Wright is #3?  

I am starting to think we may see a grad transfer as a “safe” backup just in case at this point. If Murphy can’t be healthy this season, Sark will need one more body just for the trash time in games for injury prevention.

 

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5 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

I am starting to think we may see a grad transfer as a “safe” backup just in case at this point. If Murphy can’t be healthy this season, Sark will need one more body just for the trash time in games for injury prevention.

 

I'm sure guys will be lining up for that. 

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17 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

I am starting to think we may see a grad transfer as a “safe” backup just in case at this point. If Murphy can’t be healthy this season, Sark will need one more body just for the trash time in games for injury prevention.

 

I agree.  

Even with Murphy there is no experience behind Quin.  

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2 hours ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

I'll hold out all opinions until I see the run-blocking of the oline.  We haven't had a road-grading oline in 16/17 years.  Last year we had a generational-type starting RB and his backup is a fucking beast, and we still couldn't get 3rd/4th & short w/out a minor miracle.  Most frustrating shit ever, football wise. 

Our Center can't run block to save his life and the run blocking we got from our Guards last year wasn't dependable. We only gained yards up the gut when Mustardson made someone miss. All of those guys are coming back but it is debatable if that is a good thing. I do think we will get consistent pass blocking. Quinn needs to be aggressive in checking down to any route run by Sanders. 

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2 hours ago, Reynolds Woodcock said:

I mean, in 2019 we were returning a veteran team after a 10 win season that included a Big 12 championship game loss and a Sugar Bowl beat down of Georgia, and two straight top 3 recruiting classes. Of course those veterans and their coach shit the bed and we spiraled back down to mediocrity, but there was much more logic for optimism than now.

tell me about our DL and OL that year though

 

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11 hours ago, jw4381 said:

14 passes to a dude with a broken hand?

Exhibit 147 that our head coach is as dumb a jock as they come. 
 

Until he delegates offensive play calling, disappointment awaits. 
 

Rachel Dratch Snl GIF by Saturday Night Live

I'm not a football expert by any means, but I have a sneaking suspicion that there were other players running routes as well on these plays. 

My gut inclination is that a freshman QB, struggling for the first time in his life, kept seeing his Freshman All-American roommate get open and felt that was his best option on each throw - logic, health, and historical results be damned.

You can argue that it's Sark's job to break that stubbornness from his QB, but blaming the failures solely on play calling is a simple argument better found on texags. 

(And for the "he should have benched Worthy" crowd... I'm not sure if we are all remembering last season the same, but Casey fucking Cain played significant minutes.  Don't think it's unreasonable to say that Worthy with a broken hand was likely a better option than whoever the fuck was next on the depth chart.)

Edited by Chuckie Finster
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1 hour ago, Mullet Free said:

This sounds like the regularly scheduled offseason post where we hear about how the team physically looks different after the offseason program. It produced nice gainz.

 

19 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

It looks like you're new here, but you've got me down pretty straight. I am sort of a resident Pollyanna who constantly makes up positive shit about the team and in praise of the coaching staff.

It's true. You should've seen how CTJ gushed over the offensive brilliance of Greg Davis. Or how he was a staunch defender of Strong. Us oldschool folks remember him being super excited about what Mackovic was bringing to the table in 1997, especially after the close loss to UCLA that year. Also a card-holding member of the Bull Reese fan club. Back in the days of Usenet, he bemoaned the firing of McWilliams, arguing that we just needed another season with him. And his letter-writing campaign in defense of Fred's brilliant, but sometimes overly complex, offensive schemes from the 80s are now framed in the Surly museum off Riverside drive.

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14 minutes ago, Josef Pwag said:

Our Center can't run block to save his life and the run blocking we got from our Guards last year wasn't dependable. We only gained yards up the gut when Mustardson made someone miss. All of those guys are coming back but it is debatable if that is a good thing. I do think we will get consistent pass blocking. Quinn needs to be aggressive in checking down to any route run by Sanders. 

My biggest concern from last year is actually pass blocking from the guards. There were way too many free rushers from the inside last year. It might be a small exaggeration, but OL has seemed to struggle with stunts for the the last 80 years. 

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4 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

tell me about our DL and OL that year though

 

Well our starting defensive line had four future NFL players (assuming Coburn plays in the NFL). We also had a very capable offensive line that included Sam Cosmi (future second round pick), the number one grad transfer offensive lineman (if memory serves), and a multi-year returning starter at center who was better than our current center. Of course they were coached by an imbecile, so that didn't help.  

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36 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

It looks like you're new here, but you've got me down pretty straight. I am sort of a resident Pollyanna who constantly makes up positive shit about the team and in praise of the coaching staff. Oh, and I'm really slow at running.

FIFY

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1 hour ago, closetojumping said:

It looks like you're new here, but you've got me down pretty straight. I am sort of a resident Pollyanna who constantly makes up positive shit about the team and in praise of the coaching staff.

Wasn’t it you that coined the phrase 11 win Steve.  

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1 hour ago, Josef Pwag said:

Our Center can't run block to save his life and the run blocking we got from our Guards last year wasn't dependable. We only gained yards up the gut when Mustardson made someone miss. All of those guys are coming back but it is debatable if that is a good thing. I do think we will get consistent pass blocking. Quinn needs to be aggressive in checking down to any route run by Sanders. 

I think we could very easily see two new starters at guard from last season. I don't see DJ Campbell giving the job back to Hutson, and if Christian Jones does not spin inside to guard, I think Neto could also push Conner. Either scenario could be a serious upgrade in the run game. 

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1 hour ago, Rimbo said:

 

It's true. You should've seen how CTJ gushed over the offensive brilliance of Greg Davis. Or how he was a staunch defender of Strong. Us oldschool folks remember him being super excited about what Mackovic was bringing to the table in 1997, especially after the close loss to UCLA that year. Also a card-holding member of the Bull Reese fan club. Back in the days of Usenet, he bemoaned the firing of McWilliams, arguing that we just needed another season with him. And his letter-writing campaign in defense of Fred's brilliant, but sometimes overly complex, offensive schemes from the 80s are now framed in the Surly museum off Riverside drive.

We have long suspected CTJ is actually Bill Little as he waxes poetic about burnt orange sunsets bathing the players at DKR during practices, the rejuvenating sting of Quandre Diggs in the ice bath, and even regailing us with stories of how John Childs should starts. 

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13 hours ago, jw4381 said:

14 passes to a dude with a broken hand?

Exhibit 147 that our head coach is as dumb a jock as they come. 
 

Until he delegates offensive play calling, disappointment awaits. 
 

Rachel Dratch Snl GIF by Saturday Night Live

98% sure that the injury occurred after the OSU game.

Edited by Hookem2147
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19 minutes ago, Vertigo said:

We have long suspected CTJ is actually Bill Little as he waxes poetic about burnt orange sunsets bathing the players at DKR during practices, the rejuvenating sting of Quandre Diggs in the ice bath, and even regailing us with stories of how John Childs should starts. 

Huge fan of CTJ's monthly "Name the Defense!" witticisms. I was paying him $9.95/month for that.

 

 

 

 

(Hmph. Still better than giving that to ketch.)

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21 hours ago, TheContractor said:

Manny at 177 2 months into early college is not disappointing at all, he is a field CB, he can be 185 and play physical.
same with Vasek, give him an off-season, and he will grow well like his fellow Westlake EDGE. 

BJ at 207 is great, considering 3 months ago he was close to 220. 

Gavin Holmes is slightly built field CB. Hopefully he wont have to tackle too many 220 pound running backs. his strength is quickness not size.

Swanson and Ross are concerns, if those numbers dont change, i dont think they are around in 12 months. They are both interiors, defensive lineman they can’t play other positions. 

This is definitely not right. Ross has the athleticism to play strongside edge where Sorrell plays now. 

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29 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

98% sure that the injury occurred after the OSU game.

I am going to just blow this story off. I didnt see any kind of protective gear on Worthy late in the year. Maybe it was some kind of hairline fracture or something. Not to mention both deep drops in the Washington game were more about Worthy's eyes, than his hands. He has had issues with drops throughout his career. I will steal from Gerry on this and say the main culprit is focus. This being Worthy's "contract year", we should see the best version of Worthy. 

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7 minutes ago, NoName said:

sometimes i forget it's the football board i am on and that logic doesn't apply to those people. if Jake Majors is such shit, why has he started i think 27 games in a row and not displaced?

regarding the OL being shit:

Youre Wrong John C Mcginley GIF

now was it amazing, nope. it wasn't Joe Moore Award winning (that was Michigan, who finished 25th in avg line yards btw.) it wasn't phenomenal but people keep acting like it was shit when it objectively wasn't.

Texas finished last year 31st in Average Line Yards, 30th in standard downs line yards, 33rd in passing down line yards, 8th in opportunity rate, all per football outsiders.

  • Line Yards per Carry: the line gets credit for rushing yardage between 0-3 yards (instead of 0-4) and 50% credit for yards 4-8 (instead of 5-10). Anything over 8 yards is quantified as a highlight opportunity, and credit goes to the runner. As with the pro definition, lost yardage still counts for 125%. (Garbage time is filtered out for all line yardage averages.)
  • Standard Downs Line Yards per Carry: The raw, unadjusted per-carry line yardage for a team on standard downs (first down, second-and-7 or fewer, third-and-4 or fewer, fourth-and-4 or fewer).
  • Opportunity Rate: The percentage of carries (when four yards are available) that gain at least four yards, i.e. the percentage of carries in which the line does its job, so to speak.

passing wise they finished 25th in sack rate, 31st in standard down sack rate and 41st in passing downs sack rate.

  • Sack Rate: Unadjusted sack rate for all non-garbage time pass attempts.
  • Standard Downs Sack Rate: Unadjusted sack rate for standard downs pass attempts.
  • Passing Downs Sack Rate: Unadjusted sack rate for passing downs pass attempts.

sorry it doesn't fit your narrative.

also this is one of the absolute worst takes ever posted on the internet.

100% of the time it is good for you to return your entire OL. period. here was the 2 deep for the bowl game:

image.png.dffe8203af2e87d33c49a2459cf80f43.png

you really are going to question if a team with the 31st best Line Yards, who return a 3 year starter at RT (35 straight starts) and 2 year starter at C (27 straight starts) + a true sophomore LT who started every game last year, a true SO who started every game last year and another true freshman who started 13 games at RG is a good thing?!

that's without considering a full year in the program for OLs like Neto, Agbo, Connor Robertson, DJ Campbell and Cam Williams.

but sure, it's absolutely debatable for a team to return all 10 players from their offensive line 2 deep.

head no GIF

I really wish they would use pressure rate to measure OL pass blocking. Sack rate is highly dependent on QB play. Sack rate and completion percentage are the 2 most predictable stats for QBs (NFL study). 

Edited by Codaxx
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5 minutes ago, NoName said:

sorry it doesn't fit your narrative.

 

We had the best RB, in terms of making people miss, that I've seen since Barry Sanders. I am pretty sure he led the country in generating missed tackles last season. You are giving the o-line credit for Bijan's magic. I don't know if any of our RBs will have anything close to that this season.

I keep thinking back to our first TD this past season against OU. We had the ball on the 2. We run Bijan up the gut. He has to make a cut 3 yards deep in the backfield to dodge 1, maybe 2 guys. Three guys, 2 that were unblocked, converge on him at the 1 1/2. He spins out of their tackles and runs into the EZ. He makes it look easy. It's not. 

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2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I think the backs inflated the line yards but our pass protection last season was mostly fine. 

i think it helps but either way, it wasn't like the RBs took it from #31 to #100. the OL was absolutely fine last year, with huge opportunity as the LT/LG/RG get older/better.

if Cam Williams beats out Christian Jones it makes the IOL better. if he doesn't then the RT is going to be just fine.

1 minute ago, Codaxx said:

I really wish they would use pressure rate to measure OL pass blocking. Sack rate is highly dependent on QB play. Sack rate and completion percentage are the 2 most predictable stats for QBs (NFL study). 

i wish there was a way to measure this, PFF does it for the NFL but not CFB I don't think? forget who around here has a PFF sub

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I was going to find a 

8 minutes ago, NoName said:

Texas finished last year 31st in Average Line Yards, 30th in standard downs line yards, 33rd in passing down line yards, 8th in opportunity rate, all per football outsiders.

  • Line Yards per Carry: the line gets credit for rushing yardage between 0-3 yards (instead of 0-4) and 50% credit for yards 4-8 (instead of 5-10). Anything over 8 yards is quantified as a highlight opportunity, and credit goes to the runner. As with the pro definition, lost yardage still counts for 125%. (Garbage time is filtered out for all line yardage averages.)
  •  

I love these stats, but I decided to find a run where the line gets credit for Bijan's effort. The first play of the most popular 2022 highlight vid on (my) youtube the LG misses his block almost completely and Bijan makes him miss (youtube https://youtu.be/5Mmtfmqb0MI?t=17  won't embed).

 

I don't know that I disagree with that analysis overall but it is obviously not perfectly objective.

 

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5 minutes ago, GringoSalado said:

I was going to find a 

I love these stats, but I decided to find a run where the line gets credit for Bijan's effort. The first play of the most popular 2022 highlight vid on (my) youtube the LG misses his block almost completely and Bijan makes him miss (youtube https://youtu.be/5Mmtfmqb0MI?t=17  won't embed).

 

I don't know that I disagree with that analysis overall but it is obviously not perfectly objective.

 

Here is embedded shot from game tube

 

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13 minutes ago, GringoSalado said:

I was going to find a 

I love these stats, but I decided to find a run where the line gets credit for Bijan's effort. The first play of the most popular 2022 highlight vid on (my) youtube the LG misses his block almost completely and Bijan makes him miss (youtube https://youtu.be/5Mmtfmqb0MI?t=17  won't embed).

 

I don't know that I disagree with that analysis overall but it is obviously not perfectly objective.

 

You have to be careful with that. 300+ rushes last year, so you can snip 1 play out as evidence of anything. I think the OL was solid at run blocking. They struggled vs better defenses. They also proved they could wear out a DL over the course of a game. The top 3 RBs in carries were all around 6 yards per carry. If it is was all Bijan, you would expect a much larger spread between the RBs. 

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23 minutes ago, Josef Pwag said:

We had the best RB, in terms of making people miss, that I've seen since Barry Sanders. I am pretty sure he led the country in generating missed tackles last season. You are giving the o-line credit for Bijan's magic. I don't know if any of our RBs will have anything close to that this season.

I keep thinking back to our first TD this past season against OU. We had the ball on the 2. We run Bijan up the gut. He has to make a cut 3 yards deep in the backfield to dodge 1, maybe 2 guys. Three guys, 2 that were unblocked, converge on him at the 1 1/2. He spins out of their tackles and runs into the EZ. He makes it look easy. It's not. 

i think this is a totally reasonable way to try and measure how much is on the OL vs the rusher. give the OL credit, generally, for 0-3, then partial credit for 4-8 and then no credit for 8+ and give them negative credit for lost yardage at a higher weight. ignore garbage time plays.

Line Yards per Carry: the line gets credit for rushing yardage between 0-3 yards (instead of 0-4) and 50% credit for yards 4-8 (instead of 5-10). Anything over 8 yards is quantified as a highlight opportunity, and credit goes to the runner. As with the pro definition, lost yardage still counts for 125%. (Garbage time is filtered out for all line yardage averages.)

idk how you want to quantify offensive line play otherwise without charting literally every single play of the year - sorry that this doesn't fit what you want it to fit, but it is a fine general measurement of an offensive line.

here is the first TD vs OU, ball on the 2. here is a link to the actual video:

he does indeed make a cut in the backfield but do you think this was a play that was supposed to go to the left? it's not.

note the TE (Sanders) pulling inside. his first two steps after being handed the ball are towards where the center snapped the ball, then he ducks his shoulder, cuts through the line, gets hit at the goal line by those 3 guys and scores.

OU has 7 guys in the tackle box and another 3 guys very, very close to it. 9 of the 11 guys on the field crash into the backfield, one follows JWhitt running across the formation (#25 below/#10 in the circle) and the other guy stays on Worthy at the top of the screen (1)

image.png.1dac187e105423794b170a192b5762c4.png

this is 1 play out of the entire season. the definition of a tiny sample size.

glad you agree that returning the entire 2 deep on the OL is a good thing btw.

Edited by NoName
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1 minute ago, Codaxx said:

They also proved they could wear out a DL over the course of a game.

It helps when your back makes unblocked DL miss in the backfield. That is really my only point, I only posted the video because the very first play from the first and most popular search result showed a missed block and Bijan negating it in a way very few players did last year, for a result where the stats posted gave our LG credit for a successful play when he whiffed completely.

 

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1 minute ago, GringoSalado said:

It helps when your back makes unblocked DL miss in the backfield. That is really my only point, I only posted the video because the very first play from the first and most popular search result showed a missed block and Bijan negating it in a way very few players did last year, for a result where the stats posted gave our LG credit for a successful play when he whiffed completely.

...a bijan robinson highlight video is going to start out with bijan robinson making a highlight play.

side note but using that adjusted line information above the OL got zero out of that play because it was 9+ yards, so all credit went to the rusher not the OL.

 

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39 minutes ago, NoName said:

sometimes i forget it's the football board i am on and that logic doesn't apply to those people. if Jake Majors is such shit, why has he started i think 27 games in a row and not displaced?

regarding the OL being shit:

Youre Wrong John C Mcginley GIF

now was it amazing, nope. it wasn't Joe Moore Award winning (that was Michigan, who finished 25th in avg line yards btw.) it wasn't phenomenal but people keep acting like it was shit when it objectively wasn't.

Texas finished last year 31st in Average Line Yards, 30th in standard downs line yards, 33rd in passing down line yards, 8th in opportunity rate, all per football outsiders.

  • Line Yards per Carry: the line gets credit for rushing yardage between 0-3 yards (instead of 0-4) and 50% credit for yards 4-8 (instead of 5-10). Anything over 8 yards is quantified as a highlight opportunity, and credit goes to the runner. As with the pro definition, lost yardage still counts for 125%. (Garbage time is filtered out for all line yardage averages.)
  • Standard Downs Line Yards per Carry: The raw, unadjusted per-carry line yardage for a team on standard downs (first down, second-and-7 or fewer, third-and-4 or fewer, fourth-and-4 or fewer).
  • Opportunity Rate: The percentage of carries (when four yards are available) that gain at least four yards, i.e. the percentage of carries in which the line does its job, so to speak.

passing wise they finished 25th in sack rate, 31st in standard down sack rate and 41st in passing downs sack rate.

  • Sack Rate: Unadjusted sack rate for all non-garbage time pass attempts.
  • Standard Downs Sack Rate: Unadjusted sack rate for standard downs pass attempts.
  • Passing Downs Sack Rate: Unadjusted sack rate for passing downs pass attempts.

sorry it doesn't fit your narrative.

also this is one of the absolute worst takes ever posted on the internet.

100% of the time it is good for you to return your entire OL. period. here was the 2 deep for the bowl game:

image.png.dffe8203af2e87d33c49a2459cf80f43.png

you really are going to question if a team with the 31st best Line Yards, who return a 3 year starter at RT (35 straight starts) and 2 year starter at C (27 straight starts) + a true sophomore LT who started every game last year, a true SO who started every game last year and another true freshman who started 13 games at RG is a good thing?!

that's without considering a full year in the program for OLs like Neto, Agbo, Connor Robertson, DJ Campbell and Cam Williams.

but sure, it's absolutely debatable for a team to return all 10 players from their offensive line 2 deep.

head no GIF

Star Trek Spock GIF

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29 minutes ago, Josef Pwag said:

We had the best RB, in terms of making people miss, that I've seen since Barry Sanders. I am pretty sure he led the country in generating missed tackles last season. You are giving the o-line credit for Bijan's magic. I don't know if any of our RBs will have anything close to that this season.

I keep thinking back to our first TD this past season against OU. We had the ball on the 2. We run Bijan up the gut. He has to make a cut 3 yards deep in the backfield to dodge 1, maybe 2 guys. Three guys, 2 that were unblocked, converge on him at the 1 1/2. He spins out of their tackles and runs into the EZ. He makes it look easy. It's not. 

200.gif

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  • BurntOrange&White changed the title to 2023 Spring Practice to Fall Camp Thread - Just hook it to my veins!
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