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The Sopranos


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I am happy to announce that sufficient time has elapsed since our last re-watch that we have officially begun another run through the series.  I love it for a lot of reasons, but one of those is that I always notice stuff that I haven't noticed before.  From details to nuances to you name it.

I don't know how on earth I never noticed this, but in the pilot episode they are gathered outside "Centanni's" instead of Satriale's, and it's on a corner lot, not between other shops on both sides.

The floorplan of Livia's home is different in the pilot, as well, from the remaining episodes.  For all the episodes after the pilot, it's a straight shot from her living room, then dining area, to kitchen in the rear of the home. In the pilot, there's a left turn to get to the kitchen.

I think I may have noticed a floor-plan impossibility in Melfi's office, as well, similar to the hotel mgr's office in the Shining.  It seemed to me like a window offered a view outside that shouldn't be possible, given that we've seen a shot down the hallway outside her waiting area.  If I have the energy, I'll re-check that.

Silvio seems surprised to run into the crew outside Centanni's, suggesting they weren't envisioning him as consigliere or someone who would be spending time with the gang every day.  And his question suggests that Artie is someone they haven't seen or talked about in a long time.

I love how absolutely everybody and his dog--including Hesh--knows that Pussy Malanga is going to get whacked (and where), except, apparently, Malanga.  I mean, it's like the entire cast mentioned at some point, "So I hear your Uncle Jun is gonna whack lil Pussy." It's like they read it in the "upcoming events" section of NJ Mob Daily.

Tony telling his mom about Green Grove, after Melfi compares it to Cap D'Antibes:

"Green Grove is a retirement community! it's more like a luxury hotel at Captain Teebs!"

"Who's he?"

"A captain who owns luxury hotels or something!"

I'm so happy to be back in this world.  

 

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11 minutes ago, Augustus said:

I am happy to announce that sufficient time has elapsed since our last re-watch that we have officially begun another run through the series.  I love it for a lot of reasons, but one of those is that I always notice stuff that I haven't noticed before.  From details to nuances to you name it.

I don't know how on earth I never noticed this, but in the pilot episode they are gathered outside "Centanni's" instead of Satriale's, and it's on a corner lot, not between other shops on both sides.

The floorplan of Livia's home is different in the pilot, as well, from the remaining episodes.  For all the episodes after the pilot, it's a straight shot from her living room, then dining area, to kitchen in the rear of the home. In the pilot, there's a left turn to get to the kitchen.

I think I may have noticed a floor-plan impossibility in Melfi's office, as well, similar to the hotel mgr's office in the Shining.  It seemed to me like a window offered a view outside that shouldn't be possible, given that we've seen a shot down the hallway outside her waiting area.  If I have the energy, I'll re-check that.

Silvio seems surprised to run into the crew outside Centanni's, suggesting they weren't envisioning him as consigliere or someone who would be spending time with the gang every day.  And his question suggests that Artie is someone they haven't seen or talked about in a long time.

I love how absolutely everybody and his dog--including Hesh--knows that Pussy Malanga is going to get whacked (and where), except, apparently, Malanga.  I mean, it's like the entire cast mentioned at some point, "So I hear your Uncle Jun is gonna whack lil Pussy." It's like they read it in the "upcoming events" section of NJ Mob Daily.

Tony telling his mom about Green Grove, after Melfi compares it to Cap D'Antibes:

"Green Grove is a retirement community! it's more like a luxury hotel at Captain Teebs!"

"Who's he?"

"A captain who owns luxury hotels or something!"

I'm so happy to be back in this world.  

 

Centanni’s is the name of the actual butcher shop in Elizabeth, NJ. 
 

I assume they changed the name so they wouldn’t have to pay royalties. 
 

Yeah the interaction between Tony’s crew and Silvio in the pilot is odd. 

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2 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Centanni’s is the name of the actual butcher shop in Elizabeth, NJ. 
 

I assume they changed the name so they wouldn’t have to pay royalties. 
 

Yeah the interaction between Tony’s crew and Silvio in the pilot is odd. 

I figured it was something like that (with Centanni's).

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If I recall correctly, Silvio wasn’t originally intended to be a central character when they made the pilot. Steven Van Zandt auditioned for the part of Tony and Chase like him so much that they created the Silvio character for him.

After the pilot, they realized that the character was great and needed to be a key part of Tony’s crew.

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17 hours ago, hornmpa96 said:

If I recall correctly, Silvio wasn’t originally intended to be a central character when they made the pilot. Steven Van Zandt auditioned for the part of Tony and Chase like him so much that they created the Silvio character for him.

After the pilot, they realized that the character was great and needed to be a key part of Tony’s crew.

Yeah, but that doesn't explain why Silvio would ask Tony, "you know a guy named Artie Bucco?"  

 

Later in the series Arti, Silvio and Tony all act like they have known each other forever.

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19 hours ago, Augustus said:

The Cap D'Antibes confusion on Tony's part reminded me of Melfi describing his relationship (I can't recall whom with) as "amour fou" -- "mad love."

Which Tony, of course, later refers to as "Our Mo-fo!"

Goddammit I love him.

I think this is the same episode where Carmela starts crying during the Pedigree commercial. That always cracks me up.

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The pilot was shot six months before the show got picked up and subsequent episodes were filmed. It stands to reason that there would be some continuity errors since the first episode was an audition for HBO and the remainder of the season was fleshed out after the pilot was shot.

At least that's my recollection from the Talking Sopranos episode covering the pilot.

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Yeah, but that doesn't explain why Silvio would ask Tony, "you know a guy named Artie Bucco?"  
 
Later in the series Arti, Silvio and Tony all act like they have known each other forever.

For some reason I always thought Silvio and Tony went to high school together. I had not caught the discrepancy with the pilot. But in Many Saints Silvio is probably ten years older than Tony.
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1 hour ago, Genco said:

The pilot was shot six months before the show got picked up and subsequent episodes were filmed. It stands to reason that there would be some continuity errors since the first episode was an audition for HBO and the remainder of the season was fleshed out after the pilot was shot.

At least that's my recollection from the Talking Sopranos episode covering the pilot.

And I think it was a year between actual filming dates. Meadow is noticeably slimmer in episode 2.

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Has anybody posted this video.  It's hard to argue Chase didn't intend for us to understand that Tony's dead.
 

I always thought the sharp black cut was a pair of bullets at the back of the brain. Tony was whacked. The one thing that gives me doubts was him being killed in front of his wife and kids. I can’t think of that happening in real or movie gangsterdom.
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2 hours ago, Texzilla58 said:


For some reason I always thought Silvio and Tony went to high school together. I had not caught the discrepancy with the pilot. But in Many Saints Silvio is probably ten years older than Tony.

Yeah, Many Saints basically screwed up any cohesive Sopranos timeline. David Chase doesn’t care, so it’ll never be resolved. 

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17 minutes ago, Texzilla58 said:


I always thought the sharp black cut was a pair of bullets at the back of the brain. Tony was whacked. The one thing that gives me doubts was him being killed in front of his wife and kids. I can’t think of that happening in real or movie gangsterdom.

bye bye pop-pop!

 

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15 minutes ago, Texzilla58 said:


I always thought the sharp black cut was a pair of bullets at the back of the brain. Tony was whacked. The one thing that gives me doubts was him being killed in front of his wife and kids. I can’t think of that happening in real or movie gangsterdom.

in the same episode even

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The guy at the end who walked like Vito after he lost all the weight/came out/got whacked by Phil...always sticks out to me.  The whole scene makes me laugh.

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2 hours ago, CurlyDumps said:

And I think it was a year between actual filming dates. Meadow is noticeably slimmer in episode 2.

Yeah I remember in the pilot there’s a banner in the background during Meadow’s tennis tournament showing 1996 that seems way earlier than the rest of the series. Also, the priest was different in the pilot because of the fucking ziti. 

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15 minutes ago, CurlyDumps said:

Yeah. One theory is that Tony being whacked in front of his family was calculated retaliation for Phil's similar fate.

That's a good connect.  The tradeoff justification would have been that they had to clip Phil as retribution for the other hits on NJ.  The only time Phil would have his guard down/no detail would be with the grandkids.  And they wouldn't kill a guy and leave his grandkids unattended in public.  So the compromise would be kill Phil at the gas station.  Wife would witness it, the grandkids won't remember it (too young), and she can collect herself and keep the kids safe until help arrives.  They would have preferred Phil alone in a dark alley, but that wasn't a possibility in that time.  NY & NJ conspired and decided that was the best compromise.  Somebody from NY had a bad taste in their mouth about it and ordered the hit on Tony in a somewhat similar fashion, a place and time where he'd have a dropped guard.  Only time Italians are good at math is calculating the fallout from a murder.  

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Butchie giving Phil up surprised me at the time. The only thing I can come up with is A) Butchie thought Phil lost his mind and B) Butchie is greedy. Probably some of both. Of course Little Carmine went along, I guess he had enough friends left to have a say. The sit down in the freezing garage is one my favorite scenes. 

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5 minutes ago, Lobo said:

 Only time Italians are good at math is calculating the fallout from a murder.  

This explains why Johnny Sack got that tiny little sports car and blamed Ginny’s “knee” for not being able to take a ride in it. 

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I'm sure I've mentioned this before, probably more than once, but back when the debate was really raging about what happened--whether Tony was shot or not--it took me a while to make sense out of why we spent so much time watching Meadow attempt to park her car.  That had to be written, then filmed, then edited, etc.  Just to watch her fail a couple of times at parallel parking.

Don't know why it took me as long as it did to realize that the failed efforts resulted in her walking in the front door at exactly the right moment to witness Tony getting shot, and to prompt him looking up toward the door so we'd see the blackness from his POV.

We could've seen Members Only dude come out of the bathroom and shoot Tony, but that's been done so many times it's cliche.  What Chase did was absolutely brilliant.

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15 hours ago, MrBig said:

Yeah I remember in the pilot there’s a banner in the background during Meadow’s tennis tournament showing 1996 that seems way earlier than the rest of the series. Also, the priest was different in the pilot because of the fucking ziti. 

HHEEYYYY!!!!

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16 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Butchie giving Phil up surprised me at the time. The only thing I can come up with is A) Butchie thought Phil lost his mind and B) Butchie is greedy. Probably some of both. Of course Little Carmine went along, I guess he had enough friends left to have a say. The sit down in the freezing garage is one my favorite scenes. 

Phil showed his true colors by hiding whlle putting his men in danger with the war. The call while Butchie was walking through Little Italy telegraphed a lot.  Phil pissed that Tony hasn't been found, promising Butchie they'd "talk" about a bump after it was all over, followed by hanging up when Butchie says, "hope so."

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Junior repeatedly trying to get the tacit "okay" from Livia to whack Tony.  Fucking crazy.

Lucia and Junior driving down the road looking like an old couple out for the early bird at the diner, but talking about whacking Tony. It was a surreal scene. At first it was like I was nine in the backseat of my grandad’s 54 Olds, then they’re talking a hit.
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11 hours ago, Augustus said:

I'm sure I've mentioned this before, probably more than once, but back when the debate was really raging about what happened--whether Tony was shot or not--it took me a while to make sense out of why we spent so much time watching Meadow attempt to park her car.  That had to be written, then filmed, then edited, etc.  Just to watch her fail a couple of times at parallel parking.

Don't know why it took me as long as it did to realize that the failed efforts resulted in her walking in the front door at exactly the right moment to witness Tony getting shot, and to prompt him looking up toward the door so we'd see the blackness from his POV.

We could've seen Members Only dude come out of the bathroom and shoot Tony, but that's been done so many times it's cliche.  What Chase did was absolutely brilliant.

Except there is no fucking way Tony ever sits at that table 

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6 hours ago, Augustus said:

I'd imagine it's pretty SOP for the boss to be in hiding while the soldiers are out fighting the war.   

Yeah Vic Orena was going out for a bagel and coffee when Greg Scarpa/The Perisco Faction was trying to whack him in the early 90’s. 
 

I mentioned Phil’s mental state because Butchie gave him a lot of subtle WTF looks when Phil refused to sue for peace. 
 

Greg Antonacci is a terrific actor. He did a lot of  small things I liked on the Sopranos and Boardwalk Empire. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

So, was Jimmy Altieri actually a rat?

He got out of jail quickly after the pool table/gun locker bust.  Goes straight to Tony's house and tries to get him to talk about the Colombian safe house robbery.  And when he realizes he's about to be whacked, his response could be interpreted as realizing he's been found out.

But I don't recall any actual confirmation that he was a CI.  Does anyone remember if that ever got confirmed?

As we were watching that episode last night, I got a chuckle thinking about how many capos in the NJ family were ratting out their organization.  

Big Pussy, Jimmy (allegedly), Raymond, Gene and Carlo were all wearing a wire/feeding info to the FBI, etc.  

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20 minutes ago, Augustus said:

But I don't recall any actual confirmation that he was a CI.  Does anyone remember if that ever got confirmed?

Never explicitly confirmed by the fBI but right before Silvo shoots him Silvio says something to Jimmy about "making his own radio broadcast" and then Jimmy gasps and says "oh shit!"

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I heard a funny anecdote unfortunately from Gravano. Gotti had to get a message to Joe Todaro Sr, the boss of the Buffalo Crime Family. So Gravano met Joe Jr in Florida. They met on the beach. Before they started talking Joe Jr asked Gravano to remove his shirt and swim out into the water. You can't bug a conversation in the ocean. 

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40 minutes ago, mchookem said:

i was left with the impression that Tony knew exactly who had done it, he just told Christopher that to fuck with him... and maybe he needed the cop out of the way? 🤔

he really was a horrible human lol

Yeah, it looked like Tony was trying to manipulate Christopher's loyalty by letting him think Tony had given him the opportunity to kill his father's murderder.

I'd wager Tony doesn't know that Junior hit Dickie, at least in Chase's mind.   During the Soprano's run, I doubt Chase had ever thought making Junior the one who had Dickie killed.

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15 minutes ago, Deej said:

A lot of shit Chase didn't think through. If Gandolfini hadn't died, Tony probably doesn’t get shot in the diner. 

I know I'm risking opening that can of worms, but I don't think that ending was ambiguous or was intended to be.

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15 hours ago, mchookem said:

i was left with the impression that Tony knew exactly who had done it, he just told Christopher that to fuck with him... and maybe he needed the cop out of the way? 🤔

he really was a horrible human lol

Yep. The cop needed to go. Tony needed Chris closer to him. Two birds one stone. 

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