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Tom "the turtle" Herman [Lame Duck or greatest 5d chess player ever?]


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7 minutes ago, RGBIII said:

Keeps going around and round on this. From what I believe it doesnt matter as it is basically just a prorated amount of his guaranteed salary thats owed regardless of cut date

I think the only misunderstanding about Dec 1 is no one has concrete info on the buyout from the extension?

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32 minutes ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

I'm with you all the way up to it's happening.

What I believe is that we're aligned and our side will do everything we can to make it happen.

Ultimately the call is his whether Texas is where he wants to jump back into coaching. That's what I'm waiting to see.

It was a big hurdle for us to get our shit together and pursue correctly, which from what I've read I believe we did. That's big. But it's still his choice and he could still tell us no. I hope not, but until it's official it's a possibility.

Ya thats probably a more reasonable description but we would have heard something by now that Urban had no interest in the job. Certainly not a slam dunk but he is at least considering it

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12 hours ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

I’m not sure who needs to hear this but:

Stop being a bitchmade pussy. Urban is tan, rested and ready to fuck shit up and Texas is ready to win. It’s fucking happening.

 

59 minutes ago, RGBIII said:

Urban is happening...I feel it in my plums...everyone from the AD to the president to the BOR to the BMDS to the fans is aligned in who they want and what they want. Hell even the Texas paysites are saying the same thing. No one has said it wont happen and I really feel like there would have been some big time water poured on things by now if it wasnt, hell they are even fanning the flames IMO. Things are quiet and thats for a reason, CDC moves is moving in silence and his silence on twitter after two wins is deafening IMO....this shit is going to happen..it has to

You guys are dead nuts on here. If RapGameLarry from Twitter is guaranteeing shit, nothing else needs to be said. That man has been absolutely nails. 

Also, Tom Fuckface Herman is going to horrifically buttfuck all of us by ripping off a streak of 6 wins before pressing his asscheeks firmly up against the camera's lens during a depantsing in the Big 12 title game as OU rolls us by 20.

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4 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

 

You guys are dead nuts on here. If RapGameLarry from Twitter is guaranteeing shit, nothing else needs to be said. That man has been absolutely nails. 

Also, Tom Fuckface Herman is going to horrifically buttfuck all of us by ripping off a streak of 6 wins before pressing his asscheeks firmly up against the camera's lens during a depantsing in the Big 12 title game as OU rolls us by 20.

I need more reassurance in the other thread. Butter my biscuits if you will 

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8 minutes ago, RGBIII said:

Ya thats probably a more reasonable description but we would have heard something by now that Urban had no interest in the job. Certainly not a slam dunk but he is at least considering it

Yah, there have been three weeks of this talk. Plenty of time for the "no" to get out. It hasn't because there "isn't" a no yet.

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5 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

 

You guys are dead nuts on here. If RapGameLarry from Twitter is guaranteeing shit, nothing else needs to be said. That man has been absolutely nails. 

Also, Tom Fuckface Herman is going to horrifically buttfuck all of us by ripping off a streak of 6 wins before pressing his asscheeks firmly up against the camera's lens during a depantsing in the Big 12 title game as OU rolls us by 20.

The prophecy is foretold, the Return of NowThis. 

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I believe it’s happening too because I know the interest is genuine from both sides. But what gives me pause is not having made a move by now.

If they believe Herman is the wrong coach, for reasons beyond the current W-L record, which supposedly is true, then it doesn’t make sense to me that they are letting this continue to slide. All just so the optics look a little better to do it after a loss?

If he wins out and gets destroyed in the Big 12 championship, they will have missed an opportunity to slow the recruiting demise and even potentially start recovering. And what if he does achieve a miracle win? They need to jump on this. Like I said earlier, this is one of the biggest Texas recruiting meltdowns I’ve seen in years. I’ve seen bad recruiting, but not a rapid drop from great to terrible so fast.

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1 minute ago, Dbeasy said:

I believe it’s happening too because I know the interest is genuine from both sides. But what gives me pause is not having made a move by now.

If they believe Herman is the wrong coach, for reasons beyond the current W-L record, which supposedly is true, then it doesn’t make sense to me that they are letting this continue to slide. All just so the optics look a little better to do it after a loss?

If he wins out and gets destroyed in the Big 12 championship, they will have missed an opportunity to slow the recruiting demise and even potentially start recovering. And what if he does achieve a miracle win? They need to jump on this. Like I said earlier, this is one of the biggest Texas recruiting meltdowns I’ve seen in years. I’ve seen bad recruiting, but not a rapid drop from great to terrible so fast.

I think it’s just a bad look regardless after winning 2. Had he lost against okst then it’s much easier and faster transition. I think a loss Saturday hurries up the action. The more he wins the harder it becomes. 
 

if he makes the big 12 title, somehow, that’s a bigger wrench in the plan as well. 
 

I don’t think we beat all 3 of WVU, ISU, and Kstate.

 

A WVU loss is best case scenario to expedite imo. Especially with the bye week next week. 

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2 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I believe it’s happening too because I know the interest is genuine from both sides. But what gives me pause is not having made a move by now.

If they believe Herman is the wrong coach, for reasons beyond the current W-L record, which supposedly is true, then it doesn’t make sense to me that they are letting this continue to slide. All just so the optics look a little better to do it after a loss?

If he wins out and gets destroyed in the Big 12 championship, they will have missed an opportunity to slow the recruiting demise and even potentially start recovering. And what if he does achieve a miracle win? They need to jump on this. Like I said earlier, this is one of the biggest Texas recruiting meltdowns I’ve seen in years. I’ve seen bad recruiting, but not a rapid drop from great to terrible so fast.

I would have cut his ass after OU but it makes sense to line up Urban before you cut the cord and cant really fire him after a win...maybe that changes this weekend

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2 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I believe it’s happening too because I know the interest is genuine from both sides. But what gives me pause is not having made a move by now.

If they believe Herman is the wrong coach, for reasons beyond the current W-L record, which supposedly is true, then it doesn’t make sense to me that they are letting this continue to slide. All just so the optics look a little better to do it after a loss?

If he wins out and gets destroyed in the Big 12 championship, they will have missed an opportunity to slow the recruiting demise and even potentially start recovering. And what if he does achieve a miracle win? They need to jump on this. Like I said earlier, this is one of the biggest Texas recruiting meltdowns I’ve seen in years. I’ve seen bad recruiting, but not a rapid drop from great to terrible so fast.

Think CDC gave Tom is word about what he expects, and as soon as Tom doesn't deliver he's gone.  Doesn't mean that he is waiting for that to engage Urban.. he probably has a verbal agreement done as soon as Tom falls short..which he will because, he always does.

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Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

I’m trying to recall but wasn’t the following what @closetojumping laid out last year or earlier this year as things Herman has to do:

Recruiting class ranked somewhere high

Beating ousux

Winning the conference/making conference championship game

no bad losses

 

 

something like that yeah, and it's a big goose egg on it so far.

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I’m trying to recall but wasn’t the following what [mention=429]closetojumping[/mention] laid out last year or earlier this year as things Herman has to do:
Recruiting class ranked somewhere high
Beating ousux
Winning the conference/making conference championship game
no bad losses
 
 

I believe he actually said they had to make the playoff.
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2 minutes ago, USNALonghorn said:

That’s the issue: TH doesn’t get blown out. Aside from the buyout, that’s probably what has kept him around this long.

We played the worst version of ousux in 22 years and we lost. They’ve gotten better since that game in all facets. We have gotten worse on offense and a little better on defense. 

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1 hour ago, hobbs said:

I searched for a minute and I'm not finding clear discussion concerning a 12/1 date, but probably because I didn't try hard enough.  Where was this covered and definitively debunked?

I ask because I heard from someone (secondhand, but allegedly from a big knocker in Dallas) that 12/1 was the CTH axe date because there was some kind of payment reduction event that occurred then.  Curious, since this Larry guy is tweeting the same shit now.

Someone posted the actual contract that was obtained through a public records request.  Basic language was that there is no magical cliff date of 12/1, it's that we owe him $x through end of contract so it burns off a pro rata amount with each paycheck.  So if we fire him today, we'll owe him for November, plus whatever the reported 12/1 number was.

TLDR- waiting until 12/1 saves us a month in salary not a year.

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Just now, Not a cat said:

Someone posted the actual contract that was obtained through a public records request.  Basic language was that there is no magical cliff date of 12/1, it's that we owe him $x through end of contract so it burns off a pro rata amount with each paycheck.  So if we fire him today, we'll owe him for November, plus whatever the reported 12/1 number was.

TLDR- waiting until 12/1 saves us a month in salary not a year.

That was only his original contract though, right? I thought there wasn’t information about the extension which is what was creating the grey area of lack of information. 

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1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

That was only his original contract though, right? I thought there wasn’t information about the extension which is what was creating the grey area of lack of information. 

Fair point.  I don't recall specifically but I remember being pretty satisfied at the time that it settled the matter.  It would be an odd move to change the manner in which the payoff burns off from gradual (in our favor) to cliff (in Tom's favor) as part of an extension.  That would be malpractice on the part of CDC, but then so was extending him.

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3 minutes ago, Not a cat said:

Fair point.  I don't recall specifically but I remember being pretty satisfied at the time that it settled the matter.  It would be an odd move to change the manner in which the payoff burns off from gradual (in our favor) to cliff (in Tom's favor) as part of an extension.  That would be malpractice on the part of CDC, but then so was extending him.

For all we know the extension may have set buyout cost lower than the contractual cost for those two years that trigger after Dec 1. But doing so prior could enact a weird clause where it’s full price. 

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Bobby Burton-Tuesday

Spoiler

Vote. I’m not advocating any candidate, but I am advocating everyone be heard. If you have time to read this message board, you probably have the time to vote.

**

Tom Herman is on thin ice. The college football world knows it, his own coaching staff is aware of it, as are his players, and lots of recruits. The team’s improbable victory in Stillwater gives Herman a glimmer of hope that he can still get to the Big 12 championship game if the Horns win out. I don’t think it will happen. But stranger things have occurred. There is no guarantee that Tom Herman will be fired. However, I can guarantee that he has no margin for error in the season’s final two months. Period.

**

Over the first six games, what has been the biggest issue for the Horns? I believe it has been the inconsistent play of the offense. There have been large parts of every game, everyone of them except UTEP, where the offense just goes cold. I think a major part of that is the receiver group. They are just not a good group overall.. They are not getting open often enough, especially on the outside, and the injuries to Jordan Whittington and Jake Smith have been a factor.

Only Whittington, Smith and Josh Moore seem to have the ability to regularly beat defenders one on one. Brennan Eagles has been effective at times but also inconsistent in that regard. All other receivers have to be schemed open, which is easier said than done. The same can be said for tight end. Cade Brewer must be schemed open. Jared Wiley has actually gotten himself open a few times but he’s not exactly a crisp route runner yet.

Then we have the play of Sam Ehlinger. Dissecting Ehlinger is tough because he brings so many different aspects to the table. He’s a good, strong runner, but not an explosive one. He’s an adequate thrower, but still has issues waiting too long to throw deep balls or even getting his eyes to go to his next receiver quickly enough. He has a relatively long release which impacts the passing game.

For Texas to improve the remainder of the season, I think Ehlinger’s mindset must change somewhat and I think Texas needs to find a way to get its best receivers on the field more frequently together. Texas coaches need to put Moore, Whittington and Smith into complementary roles, like they did by moving Moore to the slot in overtime against OSU.

As for Ehlinger’s mindset, he has to start thinking less about the deep ball and more about moving the chains. Sure, OSU has a good defense, but Texas went 2 of 15 on third downs on Saturday. The majority of those were third-and-six or longer. Ehlinger has to start taking more of what a defense might give him instead of looking for chunk plays in early downs. Likewise, the Texas coaching staff needs to emphasize that.

Last but not least, the dumb penalties must end. Derek Kerstetter can’t plow into people after the whistle for 15 yards or butt snap a third and short. Junior Angilau must continue to improve as a pass blocker. Denzel Okafor and Christian Jones must play better together on the right side.

I think Texas can get better on offense. The tools are there. They just have to be smarter. It’ll require a slight change in mindset and deploying those tools in a smarter way. Unfortunately, the chances are that not much of this will happen this season. Rarely does it suddenly click seven games into the year. So despite the tremendous guts Ehlinger shows every week, the Horns are likely to continue to be inconsistent on offense and the head coach’s tenure hangs in the balance.

 

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11 minutes ago, RGBIII said:

Bobby Burton-Tuesday

  Hide contents

Vote. I’m not advocating any candidate, but I am advocating everyone be heard. If you have time to read this message board, you probably have the time to vote.

**

Tom Herman is on thin ice. The college football world knows it, his own coaching staff is aware of it, as are his players, and lots of recruits. The team’s improbable victory in Stillwater gives Herman a glimmer of hope that he can still get to the Big 12 championship game if the Horns win out. I don’t think it will happen. But stranger things have occurred. There is no guarantee that Tom Herman will be fired. However, I can guarantee that he has no margin for error in the season’s final two months. Period.

**

Over the first six games, what has been the biggest issue for the Horns? I believe it has been the inconsistent play of the offense. There have been large parts of every game, everyone of them except UTEP, where the offense just goes cold. I think a major part of that is the receiver group. They are just not a good group overall.. They are not getting open often enough, especially on the outside, and the injuries to Jordan Whittington and Jake Smith have been a factor.

Only Whittington, Smith and Josh Moore seem to have the ability to regularly beat defenders one on one. Brennan Eagles has been effective at times but also inconsistent in that regard. All other receivers have to be schemed open, which is easier said than done. The same can be said for tight end. Cade Brewer must be schemed open. Jared Wiley has actually gotten himself open a few times but he’s not exactly a crisp route runner yet.

Then we have the play of Sam Ehlinger. Dissecting Ehlinger is tough because he brings so many different aspects to the table. He’s a good, strong runner, but not an explosive one. He’s an adequate thrower, but still has issues waiting too long to throw deep balls or even getting his eyes to go to his next receiver quickly enough. He has a relatively long release which impacts the passing game.

For Texas to improve the remainder of the season, I think Ehlinger’s mindset must change somewhat and I think Texas needs to find a way to get its best receivers on the field more frequently together. Texas coaches need to put Moore, Whittington and Smith into complementary roles, like they did by moving Moore to the slot in overtime against OSU.

As for Ehlinger’s mindset, he has to start thinking less about the deep ball and more about moving the chains. Sure, OSU has a good defense, but Texas went 2 of 15 on third downs on Saturday. The majority of those were third-and-six or longer. Ehlinger has to start taking more of what a defense might give him instead of looking for chunk plays in early downs. Likewise, the Texas coaching staff needs to emphasize that.

Last but not least, the dumb penalties must end. Derek Kerstetter can’t plow into people after the whistle for 15 yards or butt snap a third and short. Junior Angilau must continue to improve as a pass blocker. Denzel Okafor and Christian Jones must play better together on the right side.

I think Texas can get better on offense. The tools are there. They just have to be smarter. It’ll require a slight change in mindset and deploying those tools in a smarter way. Unfortunately, the chances are that not much of this will happen this season. Rarely does it suddenly click seven games into the year. So despite the tremendous guts Ehlinger shows every week, the Horns are likely to continue to be inconsistent on offense and the head coach’s tenure hangs in the balance.

 

In other words, one more loss.

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22 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

For all we know the extension may have set buyout cost lower than the contractual cost for those two years that trigger after Dec 1. But doing so prior could enact a weird clause where it’s full price. 

I suppose that's possible but the way everyone is talking, waiting until 12/1 still costs us 3 full years (as opposed to 4 if we do it 11/30) and not some discounted rate.  Again, if CDC allowed that as part of a contract extension when he already had the gradual burnoff as the base, then I want to play poker with him.

Side note, I found the original contract online but not the extension.  Contract is the first hit if you search "texas tribune tom herman contract".  Section 7b addresses the gradual burnoff of the buyout.  But as we've established, that ain't the extension.

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1 hour ago, Dbeasy said:

I believe it’s happening too because I know the interest is genuine from both sides. But what gives me pause is not having made a move by now.

If they believe Herman is the wrong coach, for reasons beyond the current W-L record, which supposedly is true, then it doesn’t make sense to me that they are letting this continue to slide. All just so the optics look a little better to do it after a loss?

If he wins out and gets destroyed in the Big 12 championship, they will have missed an opportunity to slow the recruiting demise and even potentially start recovering. And what if he does achieve a miracle win? They need to jump on this. Like I said earlier, this is one of the biggest Texas recruiting meltdowns I’ve seen in years. I’ve seen bad recruiting, but not a rapid drop from great to terrible so fast.

 

1 hour ago, RGBIII said:

I would have cut his ass after OU but it makes sense to line up Urban before you cut the cord and cant really fire him after a win...maybe that changes this weekend

The trick is to think through the progression of the season and how that impacts velocity without the benefit of high sight. Hell, to the money's credit, it started moving after Tech. Everyone went into the season hoping to see some return to normal fandom, and a great season from a program loaded with experience. After Tech, or during Tech, a whole fuckton of people said "motherfucker, nothing has changed."

OU was only a few weeks later, and CDC didn't have the guts to pull the trigger, as nothing was finalized. Texas has never fired a coach in mid-season, yada yada yada, leverage, etc. You think Urban Meyer has leverage? Try dealing with getting him on board after you've preemptively fired a motherfucker. 

1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I’m trying to recall but wasn’t the following what @closetojumping laid out last year or earlier this year as things Herman has to do:

Recruiting class ranked somewhere high

Beating ousux

Winning the conference/making conference championship game

no bad losses

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Dbeasy said:


I believe he actually said they had to make the playoff.

Correct between the two of you. It appears a problem with setting up KPIs a year in advance for a manager is that a lot of shit can happen between getting him/her straight and then holding them accountable to such matters. No one realized how shit was going to feel in real time, and now they're just fucking ready to get the hook and be done. This clown will fuck up something soon and then, if action isn't taken, we will all have our answer - Meyer ain't coming. When there is doubt, there is no doubt.

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1 hour ago, USNALonghorn said:

That’s the issue: TH doesn’t get blown out. Aside from the buyout, that’s probably what has kept him around this long.

There have been two blowouts that don't look like blowouts on paper - TCU in 2017 and Baylor in 2019. In regard to the Baylor 2019 game, that moved the needle on people starting to plan for the next guy. There was legitimate movement on dumping Herman with a loss to Tech and hiring Matt Campbell and then there were demands made in the aftermath of the Tech win regarding what was expected for keeping him on.

If Texas loses a game 24-10 and it feels like 49-0 again, I don't care who is or isn't locked up, they will fire his ass before that Saturday night's clock strikes midnight.

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5 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

There have been two blowouts that don't look like blowouts on paper - TCU in 2017 and Baylor in 2019. In regard to the Baylor 2019 game, that moved the needle on people starting to plan for the next guy. There was legitimate movement on dumping Herman with a loss to Tech and hiring Matt Campbell and then there were demands made in the aftermath of the Tech win regarding what was expected for keeping him on.

If Texas loses a game 24-10 and it feels like 49-0 again, I don't care who is or isn't locked up, they will fire his ass before that Saturday night's clock strikes midnight.

My hope is Tech + TCU at home put everyone in alignment.  Tech gets steamrolled by OU and TCU sucks again against any team not named Texas.  He hasn't been the guy since Maryland 2 but he saved his ass with the Sugar Bowl.

we have a golden opportunity not to have to "guess" again without DKR to save us. We need to take it or just do the Cal thing.

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  • immamac changed the title to Tom Herman, Still The Head Coach at Texas

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