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Posted
3 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

i know monica GIF

 

The essay is about GenX from the standpoint that it's writing about how GenX white males didn't pay any price in connection with the implementation of DEI hiring policies.  The people who are in power among GenX are disproportionately white males.  And we didn't throw ourselves out of power.

That's a bit part of the thesis of the essay, and it's a part with which I strongly agree.

I'm not even disagreeing with the author's observations about the impact on his cohort of Millenial white males.  I'm just saying I don't care.


Fair enough not to care, although it turns out that the people you don’t care about found some people who do say they care. 

And in a neat trick: now that the knives are out, the old white guys with money still get make out ahead. But we can’t say that about others. So, maybe a bit of messaging discipline might be in order. 
 

 

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, NWBuck said:

Starting the article now... I'm wondering if there's any consideration for the fact that the millennial generation was enormous (almost as large as boomers), and came into the workforce at the same time as wider spread automation, technology, and outsourcing. Those factors would seem to explain some of the lower job availability, particularly if you also include boomers staying in their jobs longer than their predecessors (due to lifespan and wellness changes when compared to the greatest generation). 

I did not see any mitigating circumstances which was one of my complaints.  Put all his energy into the life’s not fair and I’m a victim argument.  

Edited by TexasEd
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Posted
7 minutes ago, TexasEd said:

I did not see any mitigating circumstances which was one of my complaints.  Put all his energy into the life’s not fair and I’m a victim argument.  

I wonder who it's more unfair for, white men or everyone else.

It's a mystery.

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I wonder who it's more unfair for, white men or everyone else.

It's a mystery.

Honestly, I think it’s about the same. 

To achieve the basics of “The American Dream” in this world requires three or more of the following:

- brains
- looks
- family connections and money
- good health
- hard work


White men, out of the box, have one really big advantage: if they interact with police they almost certainly won’t die. That’s a very big deal and I don’t want to minimize it. 
But otherwise, the vast majority of white men under 45 are just as fucked as everyone else and the vast majority of them will struggle all their lives and not amount to shit. 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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Posted
43 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

the vast majority of white men under 45 are just as fucked as everyone else and the vast majority of them will struggle all their lives and not amount to shit. 

Their odds of success are much, much better.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Their odds of success are much, much better.

For somebody under 45? Nah. If you take away the ~5% with money and family connections and they are just as fucked as everyone else.  
It’s nice not to get shot, tho. That’s not nothing. 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
Posted
9 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

For somebody under 45? Nah. If you take away the ~5% with money and family connections and they are just as fucked as everyone else.  
It’s nice not to get shot, tho. That’s not nothing. 

I disagree as do the statistics 

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Posted

I’ve yet to see exceptional white men passed over. I’ve seen countless exceptional women and minorities be told to take a seat … over there. 

if white men are 28% of the population they should occupy 25-30% of all CEO, board, and other leadership positions. Finance, investment banking, private equity, law, CEOs, boards, etc are dominated by white men. Millennial men were the first to take it on the chin that’s true. I’m sorry. I tell my sons the closest thing to a guarantee is deciding for yourself that you are going to out work every dog out there. Be exceptional or be quiet. 

as for who got the nod, even if the women and minorities are privileged they are still less privileged than their white male counterparts parts. And by picking the easier ones first it will make room for more, representation matters, seeing a black woman on a corporate board matters even if she is privileged by class and education. 

as for corporate initiatives, some were woefully inadequate and poorly implemented but the best diversity programs strengthen organizations, it just so happens corporations want quick results and this is a long term play. I’ve been involved with several diversity initiatives that were unbelievably beneficial to the organization and plenty of white men were promoted. 

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Posted
For somebody under 45? Nah. If you take away the ~5% with money and family connections and they are just as fucked as everyone else.  
It’s nice not to get shot, tho. That’s not nothing. 

What percentage of black men have a dad who is/was a doctor, lawyer, etc?

What percentage of white men have a dad who is/was a doctor, lawyer, etc?

That’s the systemic advantage. And the gap there remains huge. That factor alone is hugely determinative of a person’s success.

Kid of a ditch digger is much less likely to achieve great success than the kid of a professional (and the grandkid, and great grandkid). And generations of history and practice made that gap, it hasn’t come even close to going away.

White men continue to ride the wave of the generational advantages of 300 fucking years. Now, that wave is 6 feet instead of 10. Waaaah.

Yeah, I know that a bazillion angry white men is bad for society. But…and this is important…fuck em. Fuck their entitled whiny asses.

Want something? Fucking earn it. Work HARDER. You know, all the things they tell minorities even today.
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Posted
21 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


What percentage of black men have a dad who is/was a doctor, lawyer, etc?

What percentage of white men have a dad who is/was a doctor, lawyer, etc?

That’s the systemic advantage. And the gap there remains huge. That factor alone is hugely determinative of a person’s success.

Kid of a ditch digger is much less likely to achieve great success than the kid of a professional (and the grandkid, and great grandkid). And generations of history and practice made that gap, it hasn’t come even close to going away.

White men continue to ride the wave of the generational advantages of 300 fucking years. Now, that wave is 6 feet instead of 10. Waaaah.

Yeah, I know that a bazillion angry white men is bad for society. But…and this is important…fuck em. Fuck their entitled whiny asses.

Want something? Fucking earn it. Work HARDER. You know, all the things they tell minorities even today.

What if - and believe me this is hypothetical - but what if you were offered some kind of a stock option equity sharing program. Would that do anything for you?

 

 

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Posted
13 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

What if - and believe me this is hypothetical - but what if you were offered some kind of a stock option equity sharing program. Would that do anything for you?

giphy.gif

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Posted
58 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

For somebody under 45? Nah. If you take away the ~5% with money and family connections and they are just as fucked as everyone else.  
It’s nice not to get shot, tho. That’s not nothing. 

I'm not so sure I agree with you. Not including the "families with money" as we are talking about here there is a huge value in just having family support to fall back on. During trump 1.0 a trumpy acquaintance of mine was going on the usual "well my family was middle class and mommy and daddy didn't pay for my college and I had to live at home after graduation to save money to buy a house, where's my white privilege? Why can't everyone else just do that?". I told him being a white male second Gen college graduate that was able to live rent free with his parents is a massive privilege that he for some reason thinks of as a hardship. No his parents aren't rich, but he'll never be homeless or unable to aquire appropriate clothes for an interview. 

Anyway he's a recruiter for corporate dentists or something now. Also still a total fucking moron and one of the stupidest people I've ever had the pleasure of interacting with. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

I disagree as do the statistics 

Dude, whatever the number is- normalize for the zip code where they lived in high school and see what you’re left with.

Posted
9 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Dude, whatever the number is- normalize for the zip code where they lived in high school and see what you’re left with.

And what you'll be left with is that the average white guy under 45 is still better offer off, statistically, than pretty much anyone else (basically except Asian males).  

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Honestly, I think it’s about the same. 

To achieve the basics of “The American Dream” in this world requires three or more of the following:

- brains
- looks
- family connections and money
- good health
- hard work


White men, out of the box, have one really big advantage: if they interact with police they almost certainly won’t die. That’s a very big deal and I don’t want to minimize it. 
But otherwise, the vast majority of white men under 45 are just as fucked as everyone else and the vast majority of them will struggle all their lives and not amount to shit. 

helping minorities and women get to that first rung where this formula can be true for them is critically important. Promoting minorities and women who have achieved some success  has a direct impact on their kids in this very formula you advance. I’m sorry though, if you aren’t trying to be the very best version of you you can be then you’ve got no one to blame but yourself when you get passed over. Again, I’ve never seen an exceptional white guy miss out, it happens to women and minorities more often than not.

Edited by scramblyn
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Posted
4 minutes ago, scramblyn said:

helping minorities and women get to that first rung where this formula can be true for them is critically important. Promoting minorities and women who have achieved some success  has a direct impact on their kids in this very formula you advance

I’m not sure who you are responding to here.

Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, scramblyn said:

Again, I’ve never seen an exceptional white guy miss out, it happens to women and minorities more often than not.

I can only speak to what I’ve seen. Among millennials I’ve never seen anyone exceptional passed over ever. Exceptional people are exceptional.
 

But in the 2010’s I saw lots of well qualified millennial males disqualified from consideration for promotional or mid career opportunities strictly on the basis of maleness. 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
Posted
Just now, Bozo_Casanova said:

I can only speak to what I’ve seen. Among millennials I’ve never seen anyone exceptional passed over. But I saw lots of well qualified millennial males disqualified from consideration for promotional or mid career opportunities strictly on the basis of maleness. 

I don’t doubt that I think many corporate initiatives were hasty and not well thought out, but the well done programs are needed. 

not sure how many conversations you’ve had with women and minorities where they speak openly and frankly about it, I have and it’s pervasive, still. And it got much better for a short period and that time is over. It’s back to business as usually in many ways.

again, I’m gen x too so that means what it means, but I tell my teenage white sons if they aren’t out working and out competing their peers then it’s no one else’s fault but their own. The days of promotion of mediocre or talented but not exceptional white guys is over. Don’t complain, be exceptional. 

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Posted
I don’t doubt that I think many corporate initiatives were hasty and not well thought out, but the well done programs are needed. 
not sure how many conversations you’ve had with women and minorities where they speak openly and frankly about it, I have and it’s pervasive, still. And it got much better for a short period and that time is over. It’s back to business as usually in many ways.
again, I’m gen x too so that means what it means, but I tell my teenage white sons if they aren’t out working and out competing their peers then it’s no one else’s fault but their own. The days of promotion of mediocre or talented but not exceptional white guys is over. Don’t complain, be exceptional. 

No, see, “don’t complain, be exceptional” is advice that only applies to minorities when being lectured by white people. “Work harder, bootstraps, quit whining, be exceptional!”
Totally cool when society spends generations telling minorities that, totally awful, no good, very bad when anyone tells that to white men.
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Posted
6 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

taken at face value what do you think? 

I won't begrudge the guy for writing about his personal experience, especially since he was perceptive and honest enough to acknowledge his own mediocrity. Nor would I begrudge the guy for finding other white millennial men who have walked similar paths and felt similar feelings.

What I take issue with is his going back and forth between anecdotes and statistics. I take issue with him teasing a hypothesis that he's too chickenshit to full-throatedly stand behind, in the same way Elon Musk is too chickenshit to ride one of his own rockets. He'd rather just publish the essay and hand the baton over to the usual gang of white grievance blowhards.

What use is this essay? It's already being used as justification for anti-wokism. But if that wasn't his intention, what else could it have been? To be more charitable to him, he may have been trying to better understand why white men moved toward the manosphere and connected the dots starting with his own insecurities and resentments and arriving at some of the entry-level concepts upon which white resentment rests.

But if you really think about it, is "I was a liberal guy, until this one bad thing happened to me" even a unique story? The only difference here is that it's career shit instead of something mundane like a divorce.

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Posted

I think the dude is making a good chunk of it up tbh. His only other essay published under his name is essentially the same thing on the same site. 

He's a concert ticket scalper who wants to write screenplays ffs

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Posted
11 minutes ago, safe sex said:

I think the dude is making a good chunk of it up tbh. His only other essay published under his name is essentially the same thing on the same site. 

He's a concert ticket scalper who wants to write screenplays ffs

Yeah all of these stories kind of smacked of "she was going to give me her phone number, but her friends needed to go to the bathroom and I didn't see her again all night"

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Posted

A couple of unrelated points from a Gen Xer.

  • the writer says he struggles to get into the writers room because the “white guy” writer spots are taken up by older Gen X. I imagine the African American candidate feels the same when she sees that the 2 AA spots are filled as well. The East Asian candidate sees the Asian/Hispanic seat is already taken. And there is no designated seat for the South Asian guy.
  • while it’s fair that a Millennial may feel that Gen X are taking spots that he deserves, welcome to party, pal. We’ve been behind the larger Boomer group our entire existence. Millennials at least are behind the smaller Gen X. Gen X has a limited few years to be #1 in the job market. Let us maximize our prime earning years and we will get out of the way. Fuck man, there are still some boomers taking the highest paid spots.
  • Doors are often closed to younger workers but creators (entertainment, news) actually have self publishing avenues. Try being the supply chain or marketing guy. There isn’t a substack, social media or YouTube for them to showcase their work.

i agree that white men don’t have it as easy as past generations including mine. Some of them are not helping themselves by struggling to grow up.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, chainsaw said:

What use is this essay? It's already being used as justification for anti-wokism. But if that wasn't his intention, what else could it have been?

I think that is the intention. That’s one of the reasons it disturbs me. The other reason, which is far more troubling, is the truth it contains, because real grievance is much more powerful in politics than the confected variety. 
 

Look at this thread. Multiple people are copping to the fact that yeah, millennial men probably were discriminated against en masse in certain fields for about a decade exclusively based on their race and gender, but most are kind of brushing them off as  “mediocre white men.”


But since the vast majority of all people in the workforce and population are pretty mediocre, what y’all are really saying is that it’s fine for an individual to have their opportunities limited because of their race and gender if it squares up the  ledgers of representation grievances. That’s a real political problem for progressives, among other things. 
 

7 hours ago, safe sex said:

I think the dude is making a good chunk of it up tbh. His only other essay published under his name is essentially the same thing on the same site. 

Maybe he is, but I’ve seen a lot of what he’s describing. It was pretty pervasive at big companies and in tech for about a decade. Again, it’s going viral because people are recognizing their own experiences in the essay.

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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Posted
1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

A couple of unrelated points from a Gen Xer.

  • the writer says he struggles to get into the writers room because the “white guy” writer spots are taken up by older Gen X. I imagine the African American candidate feels the same when she sees that the 2 AA spots are filled as well. The East Asian candidate sees the Asian/Hispanic seat is already taken. And there is no designated seat for the South Asian guy.
  • while it’s fair that a Millennial may feel that Gen X are taking spots that he deserves, welcome to party, pal. We’ve been behind the larger Boomer group our entire existence. Millennials at least are behind the smaller Gen X. Gen X has a limited few years to be #1 in the job market. Let us maximize our prime earning years and we will get out of the way. Fuck man, there are still some boomers taking the highest paid spots.
  • Doors are often closed to younger workers but creators (entertainment, news) actually have self publishing avenues. Try being the supply chain or marketing guy. There isn’t a substack, social media or YouTube for them to showcase their work.

i agree that white men don’t have it as easy as past generations including mine. Some of them are not helping themselves by struggling to grow up.

Really good post- all I would say is that millennials have gotten the worst deal in American history. GenX had to wait. GenX didn’t have our financial futures intentionally destroyed in order to save the people who destroyed the economy and blew up the contract with labor. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I think that is the intention. That’s one of the reasons it disturbs me. The other reason, which is far more troubling, is the truth it contains, because real grievance is much more powerful in politics than the confected variety. 
 

Look at this thread. Multiple people are copping to the fact that yeah, millennial men probably were discriminated against en masse in certain fields for about a decade exclusively based on their race and gender, but most are kind of brushing them off as  “mediocre white men.”


But since the vast majority of all people in the workforce and population are pretty mediocre, what y’all are really saying is that it’s fine for an individual to have their opportunities limited because of their race and gender if it squares up the  ledgers of representation grievances. That’s a real political problem for progressives, among other things. 
 

Maybe he is, but I’ve seen a lot of what he’s describing. It was pretty pervasive at big companies and in tech for about a decade. Again, it’s going viral because people are recognizing their own experiences in the essay.

I don't think this really happened. I think a much more accurate description of the story this author is telling and that you're buying is that in the pivot to try to diversify, some employers in certain fields adopted poorly-considered hiring and promotion policies that were moderately discriminatory against white men. I don't think it qualified as "en masse" and I think it's likely that more often than not, they weren't actually discriminatory against white men to any substantive degree, but mediocre white men felt discriminated against because they no longer had it as easy as they used to. 

Jacob Savage is a mediocre writer with an axe to grind. Compact Mag is a reactionary centrist rag with a clear agenda. The essay even acknowledges that the biggest problem in the industry is its severe contraction, but they want to focus on the race angle because their agenda is to cater to entitled white boys with imagined grievances. I also question the truthfulness and accuracy of much of the piece, for the same reasons other posters have already addressed.

Over the last 3 years, we've had around 30 summer clerks come through our firm. Most have been white and it's probably been a couple more women than men.  Of the 30 or so clerks we've had, there's only been 4 who've been below standard. Their quality of work was poor (one even turned in a clearly-AI generated memorandum that was not responsive to the assignment), they were arrogant and rude to their peers (and sometimes even to attorneys at the firm), one got belligerently drunk at a firm happy hour, etc. They were all straight white men. They were boys who hadn't grown up.  But we've never had any issues with any of the other clerks (many of whom were also straight white men). Everyone else was capable of behaving like adults, in the office and socially, did great work, and will be good lawyers. Of those ~26 good clerks, we've hired 5. Despite being good to great candidates, we couldn't hire the rest. I'm pretty sure that one of the bad clerks thinks he didn't get an offer because he imagined that we'd decided we needed to hire more women. I suspect the others have the same or similar thoughts about why they weren't hired.  Is this just a tiny sample size in a unique industry? Sure. Is it any less representative of larger trends than the anecdotes in the Compact essay? Not really.

Despite its whining, the essay does describe a shift that has happened and impacted mostly millennials, as Bozo notes. That change was bound to happen though, given the greater diversity of our generation and numerous other factors. 2020 got a little wacky in response to the George Floyd protests, but that was the mother of all outliers. It's still much easier to be a white man in America than it is to be anything else. It might not be as easy as it used to be for white millennial men in media as was for prior generations, but that's less about them being white and more about them being in an industry that's an absolute nightmare to break through in for anyone. If you're an entitled, mediocre white man who thinks you deserve to get a spot on the NY Times op-ed page before you're 30 or get your first screenplay greenlit or whatever, of course you're going to be fucked.

Bozo, I know you've been spending a lot of time monitoring what the right is saying these days and that you've been thinking through how to combat their messaging to white men. I could be wrong here, but the sense I get from your posting is that you think we need to acknowledge in our messaging that they've been screwed over by well-intentioned progressive policies. I think that would be a mistake. One thing that I don't think has been discussed here, is that though this essay described a phenomena that affected millennials, millennials still hold the most progressive views on diversity of any generation. Most white millennial men who've lived through what has been described are generally fine with their lot in life and think that phenomena was generally good. The rise in racism among younger people has been among Gen Z and Gen Alpha, not millennials. That's not because they've been discriminated against in hiring, that's because the GOP, the richest people on earth, and much of the mainstream media and alternate "centrist" media like Compact Mag and the Free Press all tell them they're being and are going to continue to be discriminated against.

Do I have a great idea about how to counter that? Not really. But the most important thing in trying to reach that demographic is not validating that messaging. What we probably need is a not-insane Jordan Peterson of the left, who can tell them to make their bed and stand up straight and learn to act like fucking adults. 

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Posted
Really good post- all I would say is that millennials have gotten the worst deal in American history. GenX had to wait. GenX didn’t have our financial futures intentionally destroyed in order to save the people who destroyed the economy and blew up the contract with labor. 

Oh. You think millennials got fucked.
Gen Z would like a word. They’re going to get to grow up in a fascist authoritarian oligarchy with little in the way of meaningful jobs or future as late stage capitalism leads to the largest inequality gap in human history as it simultaneously consumes and irrevocably destroys the environment.
Boomers destroyed everything. Literally the whole fucking thing. And it pains me that a chunk of Gen X were happy accessories to their crimes.
But I’m fucking pissed about this essay. My whole life, white men have lectured all of us about “stop being victims, no more grievance culture, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, discrimination doesn’t happen, if you didn’t get the job/promotion, you just didn’t have the merit, you’re not entitled to anything”…..and now those same white men are playing the other side of that tune as loudly as they can. I repeat, fuck em.
Dishing that shit out to everyone else for 300 years was just fine for you, but upon being served a mere demitasse of what they’ve been handing out for centuries, white men crumple to the ground and cry like bitches.
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Posted
22 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I’ve hesitated to post this, but if people want to engage the topic honestly that would be great.

This Jacob Savage essay has gone viral this week and is having a major impact, particularly in right wing and libertarian online spaces. I would encourage those who want to comment here to read the essay before posting. 

The author suggests that efforts to diversify, while well intentioned had the effect of systematically excluding millennial men, and especially white millennial men from hiring and promotional opportunities in high status or culturally elite professional  fields from 2014 through recent times. In other words, that Gen X and Boomer men (almost universally white) got to keep their spots at the top, but millennial white men got frozen out. 

Predictably, this essay has been latched onto by online progressives and online MAGA to signal their respective audiences. For progressives, this means ridiculing the idea that white male privilege took a holiday (which is not what the essay says). For MAGA, this means banging the drum of racial grievance. Neither are responsive to the point, which rang true to me. 

I can’t speak for media, journalism or academia first hand, although it seems observationally true when I look at the compositions of staff. But I can say that it aligns with my experience and involvement in hiring and promotional decisions at global corporations and in tech beginning around 2008. I don’t think we thought about the generational component of what we were doing at the time, but looking back it’s clear to me that it had a significant impact, mostly without mitigating benefit. 
 

Well, I started a whole thread to have this conversation.

 

 

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Posted
Don't discriminate.  
Don't codify preferences.  (Realizing that this will mean you are ignoring long term and short term disparities.)

[Gets a car to drive him to within a couple of miles of the marathon finish line before the race even starts. Gets out of car and into a runner’s stance.]
“Ok! This needs to be a fair race! Everyone just run as fast as you can to the finish line, same as everyone else!”
Fucking hell. That this country not only still doesn’t understand the multi-generational holdback caused by institutionalized racism, but now actually bans even talking about it in any educational context? Yeah, we’re going to turn into a shit-flinging civil war, and we fucking deserve all the pain that’s coming our way.
Openly discriminate against minorities for 300 years, and still do = “oh well, too bad, pull yourself up by your bootstraps.”
Implement programs and efforts to maybe just interview minority candidates/recruit at HBCUs and such = “ZOMG DEI DISCRIMINATION WHITE MEN ARE THE WORST VICTIMS OF DISCRIMINATION EVER!”
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Posted
17 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

But back to whiny white guys, by far the biggest factors crushing them are (1) women have entered the work force, and not just in "women's jobs" like teaching and nursing, but in all manner of professional fields, and (2) women are smart and have an aptitude for the very things that make one successful academically and professionally.  E.g., women are much less likely to spend formative educational years in their parents' basement playing COD 12 hours a day.  Once we allowed women to compete....they started kicking our asses, and it ain't getting any better for those of us equipped with a dingus.

 

This is 100% true

Posted
4 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Doors are often closed to younger workers but creators (entertainment, news) actually have self publishing avenues. Try being the supply chain or marketing guy. There isn’t a substack, social media or YouTube for them to showcase their work.

 

Do you even AI bro

Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, G650 said:

 

This is 100% true

 

Yep when you have kids and watch their cohort move through HS and into college and beyond like I just have you see that the girls/women are way more ready to compete earlier than the boys/men.  

That and Asians/Indians are kicking eerbody's asses, but yeah, keep making it about white guys, vs black guys, vs hispanic guys, society🙄. Just like the uber-rich want you to, while they sneak out the back door and count their billions.  

Edited by Surly Bevo
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Posted
3 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

It was pretty pervasive at big companies and in tech for about a decade

 

58 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I don't think it qualified as "en masse"

 

Wildcat has hit on my main take on your perspective. You've mentioned this anecdote of "big tech" like 10 times in this thread. That is a very specific thing which you are extrapolating to en masse. As someone who has hired a lot of motherfuckers, white dudes have not gotten undue discrimination in my experience at all, at any point.

 

I do strongly agree with your outlook on every non-Thurston Howell's prospective future, but it isn't because we did a small segment of white millennial dudes wrong.

2 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

Just like the uber-rich want you to, while they sneak out the back door and count their billions.

Bingo GIF by Hawkeye

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Posted
2 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

I don't think this really happened.

I only know what I saw, and broad based denial of opportunity based on race and gender to people in a specific range of career bands is what I consistently observed in that period. That’s my direct, first hand, experience so I don’t really know what else to say other than that I think everyone’s intentions were basically good.

2 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Bozo, I know you've been spending a lot of time monitoring what the right is saying these days and that you've been thinking through how to combat their messaging to white men. I could be wrong here, but the sense I get from your posting is that you think we need to acknowledge in our messaging that they've been screwed over by well-intentioned progressive policies

That’s marketing malpractice. Going around apologizing is not how anybody wins. My point here is to locate a legitimate source of resentment, point to the modest progress that was gained, and think about what lessons it can teach. 

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Posted

@Bozo_Casanova now that I’ve read more of your posts I suspect the things you saw in the tech industry were significantly affected by more than just the diversity efforts.  This could be a whole thread on just the tech industry but I’ll say a little here.

We can blame diversity across the board but in tech it was a double whammy with H1B making it even harder on white males and it wasn’t for diversity reasons even though it might look like it was.  It was economic because it was cheaper to bring in people on visas, pay the legal bills, and then cut the salary by the amount of the immigration fees and hold it over the employee’s head like an indentured servant for stability.   It can look like a diversity play where non-white male people start filling more roles but I don’t think it was.

I worked in a lot of roles that required security clearances for decades and was insulated from the impacts in the broader tech workforce and when I switched to non-defense work it was eye-opening.  

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Posted

So they vote republican politicians in when republicans have made it a goal to destroy regulation, destroy unions, downsize workforce while increasing profits, and pay virtually zero taxes compared to earnings. 

Then they complain they dont have jobs and blame minorities. 

I'm a white male millenial. I went into the medical field because the generations ahead of me were large and aging, and the chances were good it would be able to sustain a career in the field. It's not glamorous work but it's essential.

I didn't go into television writing or media or journalism and then complain I can't  find a job in niche or dying markets. If you're white and want to get ahead in those hyper competitive markets change your name to Stein and start going to synagogue.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Hermanator said:

So they vote republican politicians in when republicans have made it a goal to destroy regulation, destroy unions, downsize workforce while increasing profits, and pay virtually zero taxes compared to earnings. 

Then they complain they dont have jobs and blame minorities. 

I'm a white male millenial. I went into the medical field because the generations ahead of me were large and aging, and the chances were good it would be able to sustain a career in the field. It's not glamorous work but it's essential.

I didn't go into television writing or media or journalism and then complain I can't  find a job in niche or dying markets. If you're white and want to get ahead in those hyper competitive markets change your name to Stein and start going to synagogue.

The first half of this post is what I was getting at with the discussion on mitigating circumstances.  The article lightly touched on the transition from traditional to digital media and the relatively shrinking number of jobs but completely ignored the fact that 67% of new college grads with Communications degrees were women which just happened to match the new hire rate that he cited in the article. 

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Posted
7 minutes ago, G650 said:

I also have to add, I can't think of a more pie in the sky career dream than screenwriter.

Screenwriting, academia, and journalism. Hard to imagine a more "welcome to the party, pal" set of pisspoor odds of success career choices

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Posted (edited)

No offense to anybody but this thread is pretty much what I expected and it’s disheartening.
This board is a pretty representative sample of mainstream progressive discourse, and this essay has proven to be a really interesting Rorschach test. My hope was that some class consciousness had crept back into this part of the left as we head into the next cycle, but the reaction here and other mainstream-left spaces to this demonstrates to me that class consciousness is still mainly symbolic if it exists at all, and nominal racial representation still trumps everything. Older affluent progressives (ie Mainstream white democrats) are still struggling to find empathy with voters they need to win. It’s troubling.

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
Posted
[mention=1259]Bozo_Casanova[/mention] now that I’ve read more of your posts I suspect the things you saw in the tech industry were significantly affected by more than just the diversity efforts.  This could be a whole thread on just the tech industry but I’ll say a little here.
We can blame diversity across the board but in tech it was a double whammy with H1B making it even harder on white males and it wasn’t for diversity reasons even though it might look like it was.  It was economic because it was cheaper to bring in people on visas, pay the legal bills, and then cut the salary by the amount of the immigration fees and hold it over the employee’s head like an indentured servant for stability.   It can look like a diversity play where non-white male people start filling more roles but I don’t think it was.
I worked in a lot of roles that required security clearances for decades and was insulated from the impacts in the broader tech workforce and when I switched to non-defense work it was eye-opening.  

Not always, but things often happen in this country because someone is gaining economic advantage.
Posted
11 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

No offense to anybody but this thread is pretty much what I expected and it’s disheartening.
This board is a pretty representative sample of mainstream progressive discourse, and this essay has proven to be a really interesting Rorschach test. My hope was that some class consciousness had crept back into this part of the left as we head into the next cycle, but the reaction here and other mainstream-left spaces to this demonstrates to me that class consciousness is still mainly symbolic if it exists at all, and nominal racial representation still trumps everything. Older affluent progressives (ie Mainstream white democrats) are still struggling to find empathy with voters they need to win. It’s troubling.

I mean, from my perspective you pretty much came to this conclusion before you posted it. People have given you some thoughtful responses.

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Posted
No offense to anybody but this thread is pretty much what I expected and it’s disheartening.
This board is a pretty representative sample of mainstream progressive discourse, and this essay has proven to be a really interesting Rorschach test. My hope was that some class consciousness had crept back into this part of the left as we head into the next cycle, but the reaction here and other mainstream-left spaces to this demonstrates to me that class consciousness is still mainly symbolic if it exists at all, and nominal racial representation still trumps everything. Older affluent progressives (ie Mainstream white democrats) are still struggling to find empathy with voters they need to win. It’s troubling.

Empathy is fucking dead.
We don’t kill it, but we damn well know what the stench of “death of anything good” smells like.
I can’t do it. I just can’t. I cannot make myself feel any empathy or sympathy for a group that has, for all living memory, been the most privileged group in the history of humanity, who are now pissed because they may have lost .000001% of that privilege.
Yeah, I’m aware of the strategic point in courting them. That’s why I have long been a proponent of lying to them, telling them the sweet lies they want to hear to get their votes. But I can’t care about them. They and their predecessors have never given 1 billionth of a fuck about anyone else.
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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


Empathy is fucking dead.

I feel your pain on that one.

Sorry, couldn't resist- I'm a bit high right now 😀.

Edited by KaiserSoze
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