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Русский корабль - иди нахуй


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9 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Yep.  As clearly evidenced by the German's top spy of all people being stuck in Ukraine when it kicked off.   If that's not telling of German intelligence I don't know what is.

While yours is a fair point, I would still bet my money that there was some sort of important dealings concerning the conflict that required him to stay as late as he could. 

I don’t know terribly much about German intelligence, however, I do know Germans and for them to say that their top spy just wasn’t watching the news for three solid days is most definitely bullshit

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1 minute ago, BearSchlong said:

Bash the corps of cadets all you want, but my Aggie corps grad is now, I believe with 99.9% certainty, commanding a platoon of combat medics dispensing medical and humanitarian aid at the Poland/Ukraine border.

If true I'm the proudest dad on Earth.

If the red herring explanation for his abrupt departure from CONUS earlier this week is true the the US Army is stupid.

he could have done that without going to aggie......jk.  well done and godspeed to your son.

what is CONUS?

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2 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

yes they were but Ukraine had them.  otherwise why would there need to be an agreement to give them up.

If their nukes are anything like ours, particularly those deployed to other nations…they were (or should be) practically useless without the codes.  Probably not as sophisticated as our modern PAL devices, but there had to be some kind of control.  
 

Sure you could hack into it and cut it open, and you’d have uranium/plutonium for a dirty bomb…but the precise voltages, timing, and sequence needed to actually detonate it at yield is forever lost.  Our lates PALs (when the code isn’t 000000) will safe the device if you enter in the wrong code too many times or if it detects entry past the exclusion zone, or if a weak link is broken…hell many won’t arm, even with the right code, unless a certain sequence of environmental factors (like sustained g on an ICBM or free fall from a jet) is met.  
 

So hopefully, yeah they weren’t really usable by Ukraine at all.  

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1 minute ago, Longhornlove said:

Bingo, you think we couldn't figure out how to hook them up or just let them store them as a deterrent? Either way I'm not sure anyone wanted them to have them but the fact remains that they did indeed have them and we had to negotiate them out of their possession.

Ha.  If you think Ukraine had to be talked out of it then you've got it all wrong.  Ukraine didn't want the nukes.  Russia didn't want the nukes.  Maintaining a nuclear weapon is incredibly expensive and Ukraine didn't have the money to maintain it.  Provide security for it.  The retrofit of it would have been insanely expensive.  It would have been in a very bad shape so when the US said they would buy it and gave an assurance for security they happily agreed.  Now were they hoodwinked because they thought assurance and guarantee meant the same thing?  Probably.  

 

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3 minutes ago, Doc Reeves said:

While yours is a fair point, I would still bet my money that there was some sort of important dealings concerning the conflict that required him to stay as late as he could. 

I don’t know terribly much about German intelligence, however, I do know Germans and for them to say that their top spy just wasn’t watching the news for three solid days is most definitely bullshit

Totally fair.  But given how weak Germany has been leading up to this, and that their policies which emboldened Putin are a big factor in the entire world being in this situation, I enjoyed that bit of egg on their face.

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Just now, Homercles said:

If their nukes are anything like ours, particularly those deployed to other nations…they were (or should be) practically useless without the codes.  Probably not as sophisticated as our modern PAL devices, but there had to be some kind of control.  
 

Sure you could hack into it and cut it open, and you’d have uranium/plutonium for a dirty bomb…but the precise voltages, timing, and sequence needed to actually detonate it at yield is forever lost.  Our lates PALs (when the code isn’t 000000) will safe the device if you enter in the wrong code too many times or if it detects entry past the exclusion zone, or if a weak link is broken…hell many won’t arm, even with the right code, unless a certain sequence of environmental factors (like sustained g on an ICBM or free fall from a jet) is met.  
 

So hopefully, yeah they weren’t really usable by Ukraine at all.  

yeah I know. I heard the russian codes for all 1900 were all user id "Admin" password "12345678"

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17 minutes ago, Lurch said:


My understanding is that the Russians controlled those nukes so they were useless to Ukraine

It's worth looking at the Budapest Memorandum. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine#Budapest_Memorandum

Having 1990-era Soviet nukes does not in any way guarantee that those same nukes would be operational today.

And, given that Ukraine has not been a model of stability over the last 30 years, probably on balance good that they were nuclear-free.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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The sons of oligarchs are bopping in a Paris nightclub, either telling tales of woe from their front-line service or spouting anti-war sentiment, whichever seems most likely to impress the coke whore at their side, when all she really wants is more coke.
One of them just wrapped up Formula 1 testing. Fuck them all.
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12 minutes ago, Homercles said:

If their nukes are anything like ours, particularly those deployed to other nations…they were (or should be) practically useless without the codes.  Probably not as sophisticated as our modern PAL devices, but there had to be some kind of control.  
 

Sure you could hack into it and cut it open, and you’d have uranium/plutonium for a dirty bomb…but the precise voltages, timing, and sequence needed to actually detonate it at yield is forever lost.  Our lates PALs (when the code isn’t 000000) will safe the device if you enter in the wrong code too many times or if it detects entry past the exclusion zone, or if a weak link is broken…hell many won’t arm, even with the right code, unless a certain sequence of environmental factors (like sustained g on an ICBM or free fall from a jet) is met.  
 

So hopefully, yeah they weren’t really usable by Ukraine at all.  

The hardest part on developing a nuclear weapon is getting the enriched plutonium.  There's an old saying if you got the plutonium you're 90 percent there on a nuclear weapon.  The rest of that 10 percent is a few calculations that a dude could do and spec the delivery system.

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14 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

 

Having 1990-era Soviet nukes does not in any way guarantee that those same nukes would be operational today.

 

The Ukraine has many scientists and engineers and physicists who actually worked on the 1980 era Russian nukes. If they wanted them to be operational, they could have been operational.

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3 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

The hardest part on developing a nuclear weapon is getting the enriched plutonium.  There's an old saying if you got the plutonium you're 90 percent there on a nuclear weapon.  The rest of that 10 percent is a few calculations that a dude could do and spec the delivery system.

If I remember correctly, that was one of the reasons the US did that. To take control of the plutonium before it fell into the hands of Iraq o North Korea or Dr. Emmett Brown

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18 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

Ha.  If you think Ukraine had to be talked out of it then you've got it all wrong.  Ukraine didn't want the nukes.  Russia didn't want the nukes.  Maintaining a nuclear weapon is incredibly expensive and Ukraine didn't have the money to maintain it.  Provide security for it.  The retrofit of it would have been insanely expensive.  It would have been in a very bad shape so when the US said they would buy it and gave an assurance for security they happily agreed.  Now were they hoodwinked because they thought assurance and guarantee meant the same thing?  Probably.  

 

Worth noting that the signatories to the Budapest Memorandum agreed to non-aggression against Ukraine.  And agreed to secure Ukraine against nuclear aggression, not general aggression.  Russia is in violation of the Budapest Memorandum.  US and UK are not, so far.

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16 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

It's worth looking at the Budapest Memorandum. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine#Budapest_Memorandum

Having 1990-era Soviet nukes does not in any way guarantee that those same nukes would be operational today.

And, given that Ukraine has not been a model of stability over the last 30 years, probably on balance good that they were nuclear-free.

they should have held on to them and traded them in for the 05 model year XLE package.

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21 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Totally fair.  But given how weak Germany has been leading up to this, and that their policies which emboldened Putin are a big factor in the entire world being in this situation, I enjoyed that bit of egg on their face.

Fuck Germany. They are the absolute worst. 

There are plenty of lessons to be learned here from an energy policy perspective, but we all know that it will have no effect on US policy. 

Edited by StruggleBus
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6 minutes ago, Jameslaw121 said:

If I remember correctly, that was one of the reasons the US did that. To take control of the plutonium before it fell into the hands of Iraq o North Korea or Dr. Emmett Brown

In 1985, you could just walk into any store and buy plutonium.  In 1994, it was a little harder to come by.  

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The hardest part on developing a nuclear weapon is getting the enriched plutonium.  There's an old saying if you got the plutonium you're 90 percent there on a nuclear weapon.  The rest of that 10 percent is a few calculations that a dude could do and spec the delivery system.

I read the Sum of All Fears and stayed at a Holiday Inn Express and agree.
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There is way too long to go and too much complicated history to start slob knobbing our government and particularly Biden in this fiasco. The facts are that there are millions of Ukraine citizens in the line of fire of a crazy man, likely thousands of dead Russian soldiers involuntary slaughtered and the world‘s energy and economy looking fragile. I guess you can say the shit sandwich taste better than you thought but it’s still a bunch of crap and there needs to be an evaluation of how this could have been avoided if at all.

If you don’t think we did an amazeballs job of herding cats to get to this “fuck Putin and Russian gas and finances” point, given the myriad EU concerns and disincentives, then…..well….I strongly disagree.

Getting allies to act against their own short term self-interests (see every politician everywhere) takes carrot and stick diplomacy to 5D Chess level.

I love how you think Putin would be dissuaded from doing this because…..??
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1 minute ago, Gatorubet said:


If you don’t think we did an amazeballs job of herding cats to get to this “fuck Putin and Russian gas and finances” point, given the myriad EU concerns and disincentives, then…..well….I strongly disagree.

Getting allies to act against their own short term self-interests (see every politician everywhere) takes carrot and stick diplomacy to 5D Chess level.

I love how you think Putin would be dissuaded from doing this because…..??

The "and particularly Biden" comment is rich.  Yes, there are probably things that could have been done over the last 30 years with respect to Europe, Ukraine and Russia that would have fended this off to some degree.  Hardly any of it could have been done by Joe Biden.

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A lot more people getting on the news pouring cold water on everything, reminding everyone that less than 50% of the massed troops haven't even moved in yet, and they have yet to really start leveling city blocks. The thinking is that as Putin gets increasingly more and more backed into a corner, he may start lashing out with more and more brutal attacks on the civilian population.

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3 minutes ago, Mantis Toboggan, MD said:


I read the Sum of All Fears and stayed at a Holiday Inn Express and agree.

Part of why I like Tom Clancy books so much is the extensive research he does on stuff.  A lot of his stuff is scary accurate.  I remember some of his books scared the DOD so much that they thought he was leaked.classified info that they asked him to show him the book before it got published.  The amount of access he got to the military was insane.

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29 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Totally fair.  But given how weak Germany has been leading up to this, and that their policies which emboldened Putin are a big factor in the entire world being in this situation, I enjoyed that bit of egg on their face.


yeah, Trump alienated the Germans (no CR speaking from the Germans perspective) also the refugee situation has caused huge pressures internally politically and as Merkel has finally retired many of the people who were vying for her place afterwards felt they could not count on the US like they had in the past. Indeed, they made a deal with the devil.

while  I’m not making excuses for anybody or their mistakes, I feel like this unfortunate mess will repolarize our allies with us and could lead to some real positives for the world. Ukrainians are literally fighting for all of us right now

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  • immamac changed the title to Русский корабль - иди нахуй

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