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Breaking news - Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris on fire


Armybrat

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9 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

I assume the church will do it all on their own, but a huge price tag.

Well they've clung onto billions if not trillions of dollars in art work that could help billions of suffering people what makes you think they'll fund a building?

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15 minutes ago, hornimal said:

I'm genuinely curious, please explain.

The water doesn't all break up into small drops as it falls. The drops are usually made from low altitude, so the water isn't falling a very long way, and it's moving fast. The force of the water can injure or kill people in the way, or it can break trees, etc, which can fall on people below. 

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17 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

So who pays to rebuild Notre Dame?

The Vatican or does the French government get stuck with the bill?

I assume the church will do it all on their own, but a huge price tag.

Why the gubment?

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9 minutes ago, Wally Pryor said:

The headline and lede of that article... as I post this... seem vastly different than the positive blurb quoted. Certainly hoping they can preserve much, if not most of the exterior. I’ll take hope where I can get it, though. Thanks.

Edited by Vito Andolini
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1 hour ago, Laxtonto said:

This gets me thinking...

What iconic structures are out there globally that would generate this level of shock and sadness worldwide?  I’m curious what people would compare the loss of Notre Dame to.

Just off the top of my head

The Eiffel Tower

Buckingham Palace

Saint Peters Basilica

Taj Mahal

The Sphinx 

 

Can the sagrada familia burn, or is it all concrete and stone?

It doesn’t have the centuries behind it though. 

Edited by Pato del Muerto
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29 minutes ago, wood said:

The water doesn't all break up into small drops as it falls. The drops are usually made from low altitude, so the water isn't falling a very long way, and it's moving fast. The force of the water can injure or kill people in the way, or it can break trees, etc, which can fall on people below. 

I still don't follow.  if the force of a rain drop that forms high up in the clouds is not able to punch a hole in my head during a rain shower, how is a water drop originating from a leaf/tree branch/arching off a fire hose able to be accelerated so much that it would cause injury?

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Just now, hornimal said:

I still don't follow.  if the force of a rain drop that forms high up in the clouds is not able to punch a hole in my head during a rain shower, how is a water drop originating from a leaf/tree branch/arching off a fire hose able to be accelerated so much that it would cause injury?

He doesn't mean "drops" like "raindrops."  He means "drops" as in "hey, have that tanker do his drop of 25,000 gallons over there."  Giant slug of water, all in one "piece" hits your head.  Doesn't kill you for the same reason that dropping a piece of gravel onto your head from 20 feet won't hurt you, but dropping a boulder will kill you.

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46 minutes ago, Foosters said:

What happens if you drop a few hundred feet into a body of water? Now imagine instead, that large body of water being dropped on you.

I get that part.  I understood it was if water drops reacted differently during a blaze that would turn them into bullets or something that would pierce clothing and skin.

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1 minute ago, Vito Andolini said:

Maybe he should have used the word water dump instead of “drop.”

Yeah I used the word 'drop' two different ways in that post. My bad. I thought he'd get it. You guys get it. Oh well.

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10 minutes ago, hornimal said:

I still don't follow.  if the force of a rain drop that forms high up in the clouds is not able to punch a hole in my head during a rain shower, how is a water drop originating from a leaf/tree branch/arching off a fire hose able to be accelerated so much that it would cause injury?

Like Brisket said, ain't nobody getting hurt or killed by some drops of water falling out of the sky. It's when they drop a swimming pool or ten on your head all at once that it becomes a problem. A couple of FF have been killed just in the last year or so like this. In one of the incidents a 90 foot fir tree was uprooted and fell on a FF.

Edited by wood
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6 minutes ago, wood said:

Yeah I used the word 'drop' two different ways in that post. My bad. I thought he'd get it. You guys get it. Oh well.

yeah, bit of dumbassery on my part.  totally ignored that you had started talking about tanker dumps.  I misunderstood water drop as in droplets.  

apologies for the derail.  this is fucking tragic.

Edited by hornimal
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2 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Good thread from former fire chief and state emergency management official from Missouri on why fighting fires in churches - especially very old ones - is so difficult.
 

Yep. Hell, some churches used to get the FD to come change their light bulbs for them up high on those cathedral ceilings because there was no way for them to get to them. Some probably still do. Now imagine fighting a big fire in that room.

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Just now, hornimal said:

yeah, bit of dumbassery on my part.  totally ignored that you had started talking about tanker dumps.  I misunderstood water drop as in droplets.  

Meh ... we're all dumbasses from time to time ... esp 'round these parts. ; )

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5 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Good thread from former fire chief and state emergency management official from Missouri on why fighting fires in churches - especially very old ones - is so difficult.
 

What the hell is Gregg Favre doing here?

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1 hour ago, Vito Andolini said:

Someone up thread posted an article from Newsweek claiming there’s been a recent spate of crime directed at French Catholic churches, so that could be a cause, but when I saw the initial flames emanating from the scaffolding area, my first thought was renovation related. Also, don’t discount European Smoking Asshole (they are everywhere), so one of the workers could have been careless with his Lucky Strike.

Gaulois, imo.

I was of the impression that the medieval cathedrals were almost entirely structurally stone.  I know stone can "burn" or degrade under extreme heat, especially mortar joinery, but I was also of the impression that mortar joinery was not extensively used.

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19 minutes ago, hornimal said:

I still don't follow.  if the force of a rain drop that forms high up in the clouds is not able to punch a hole in my head during a rain shower, how is a water drop originating from a leaf/tree branch/arching off a fire hose able to be accelerated so much that it would cause injury?

This dude survived right? 

aggie5.jpg?189db0

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13 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Thank God they were able to save the main structure. I can't find the tweet but someone noted that Notre Dame was shelled in WWI and rebuilt. So there's hope. Still a terrible day. 

Yeah.  Last i saw of the live feed, looks like the fire is under control. Looks like the stone structure is ok for now (so is that scaffolding, so wow).  If they can shore up the stone once the fire is totally out, then they can restore and rebuild.  It will just take years.

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I bet they get it done within 10 years.  1) high-profile campaign will easily get them $1-$2 billion.  Worldwide.  2) "We have the technology".   If you're a stonecutter/carpenter/etc., you're there and will get paid handsomely.

Because it's Easter Week, and because this is one of the most unearthly beautiful things I've heard on YouTube, Victimae Paschale Laudes, the Easter Sequence, sung from... Notre Dame by the Choire of Notre Dame de Paris, arranged by former cathedral organist Pierre Cochereau (d. 1984), played by current titular (er, "chief") organist Pierre Grandmaison ... in 2009.  Sound isn't terrific but it's good enough.  If nothing else, the last "Amen. Alleluia." at 3:00-3:15 is drop-dead gorgeous.

Imagine how much more unbelievably incredible this would sound in person - Notre Dame has a more resonant, lasting echo to it than most other cathedrals.  You are immediately surrounded by a swell of sound, there's almost nothing like it (and I've been to a buncha cathedrals).  Imagine this live.  Well, you can't.  Neither can I (wasn't there for this).  Unbelievably, no-words-beautiful what sounds can come from that organ in that church.

 

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2 hours ago, Laxtonto said:

This gets me thinking...

What iconic structures are out there globally that would generate this level of shock and sadness worldwide?  I’m curious what people would compare the loss of Notre Dame to.

Just off the top of my head

The Eiffel Tower

Buckingham Palace

Saint Peters Basilica

Taj Mahal

The Sphinx 

 

Interesting that you include the Eiffel Tower, which is also in Paris of course.  Apparently Notre Dame Cathedral receives twice as many visitors a year compared to the Eiffel Tower.  Of course you have to pay to get into the tower, and supposedly lines are rather long, but it's interesting given the sentiments and the mixed feelings Parisians have when it comes to the Eiffel Tower.  Guy de Maupassant once said "She offers the best view on Paris, since it’s the only place where I can’t see her."  Certainly not all Parisians feel that way, but you get the impression they don't show as much pride in it as we do the Statue of Liberty which was made by the same man.  

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Wifey and I were at the Cathedral around noon today.   We heard first responders speeding by our hotel around 7:15 this afternoon.  By 7:30, we could see the flames through the thick smoke.  So sad for the people of Paris and for the Church.  There were hundred thousand folks lining both banks shocked and distraught.  So sad :(

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2 minutes ago, ulukinatme said:

Interesting that you include the Eiffel Tower, which is also in Paris of course.  Apparently Notre Dame Cathedral receives twice as many visitors a year compared to the Eiffel Tower.  Of course you have to pay to get into the tower, and supposedly lines are rather long, but it's interesting given the sentiments and the mixed feelings Parisians have when it comes to the Eiffel Tower.  Guy de Maupassant once said "She offers the best view on Paris, since it’s the only place where I can’t see her."  Certainly not all Parisians feel that way, but you get the impression they don't show as much pride in it as we do the Statue of Liberty which was made by the same man.  

Notre Dame is located in the absolute heart of the city on the literal Île de la Cité and is much more a part of the lives of most residents and can make up a bigger part of your experience as a visitor if you're out on foot. The Eiffel Tower is actually a little bit out of the way.

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