I'm starting 2 of these threads and I'm going to moderate them pretty differently than all other threads, because I think it will give a forum to talk about the reasons why instead of just nonsensical rooting for it against.  These aren't discussion threads, they are more observational. That's not to say some discussion won't happen in them, but this isn't a circle jerk rallying thread this is a thread to put your thoughts. So less back and forth, but building on other opinions/positions is