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udaydanceparty

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Posts posted by udaydanceparty

  1. 4 minutes ago, Captainant said:

    It's been in the public domain that the Mueller investigation started from pulling threads from papadop. I linked a NYT article from 2017 earlier in this thread that you didn't read, so here it is again. 

    And while I'm at it, this is a decent breakdown of how trump got people like you to believe that the mueller probe was started because of the steele dossier.

     

    But who am I kidding? You're not going to read this because you don't give a shit about anything other than your team vs everyone else

    I'm aware of the Papadopoulos angle in all of this.  Doesn't change what happened with the dossier.  Without the dossier, we don't have this special council.

  2. 42 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

    Well your initial claim is false. Why should we listen to anything else you’ve said.

    Care to explain what's false about my statement?

    It is my understanding that the dossier was created as part of opposition research conducted by fusion GPS .  That research was paid for originally by Jeb Bush and then the Clinton Camp started paying them.  It was carried out by a former British spy who used his contacts in the Ukrainian and Russian governments to create the dossier. 

    That's my basic understanding of how that document came into being.  If something is factually incorrect, i'm open to having my mind changed.

  3. 1 minute ago, Captainant said:

    Oh nice job trying to set the grounds for the conversation that the Russia investigation is just a hoax. It's not like our Intel community is certain that Russia successfully fucked with our political process, while the man who benefited from said fuckery is adamant nothing happened, and even believes the Russians over our service members 

    The piss dossier was opposition research and was the basis for the entire investigation getting started.  Then you had the average joe FBI agents do their job while others in the IC and a senile Senator with a brain tumor decided to leak information to the press. If it wasn't for Jake Tapper at CNN, the piss tape story would have never made it to the mainstream and you guys would have been doing something much more productive over the past 2 years other than furiously masturbating over political clickbait. 

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  4. 2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

    This is such a shitty take. This isn't a made-up conspiracy theory. This is a substantive investigative report that has lead to multiple indictments, convictions, and guilty pleas. The house voted without objection to release the entire report, which is a central piece of a national public interest. 

    Fuck your false equivalency

    You are right.. the piss tape is on par with the Michele Obama having a penis conspiracy theory.  The Russia collusion conspiracy as a whole is much closer to Bush's WMD in Iraq hoax.  A lot of people believed that as well.

  5. 1 minute ago, EMAWesome said:

    So if someone makes a bogus claim that you diddled with kids at a school playground and the ensuing investigation finds no evidence of you doing this but does record you on video eating your own boogers that video should be made available to the public?  Might suck but them's the breaks?

    This is the same issue I have with releasing it to the public.  I think it should be released to Congress for sure.  There needs to be some level of discussion among the leaders of both parties about how far the public disclosures need to go. 

  6. 2 minutes ago, suddenly shaggy said:

    Right wing shout down crew still out in full force I see. 

    Don't see how any American can take issue with wanting the full report released. Your side especially, since it you think it clears Trump, even though Mueller/Barr expressly said it doesn't. 

    I took a long break from Surly specifically because of how hostile the politics forum was to conservatives that even slightly pushed back at this insane conspiracy theory.  I thought it was a waste of my time to argue since certain posters were going full on tin foil.  Now even after "Mueller Time!" completely clear the President and his campaign of collusion you are still grasping for straws.  Take the L.

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  7. 1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

    What’s funny is people think the IC would ever come out and say Trump is a Russian agent.  That was never going to happen because that’s not the way it works.  At best they would have brought evidence that he’s and unregistered foreign agent and that was a long shot. 

    The clandestine Trump Tower Moscow deal they lied about and worked so hard to keep secret makes the best case I’ve seen for FARA violations but it probably doesn’t meet the prosecutable threshold.  Therefore no charges.

    #winning

    Get help

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  8. 4 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

    .Greenwald's shtick is really annoying(which is basically just giving Democrats shit even though he loathes Trump and Republicans), but this pretty much sums it up. 

    What does Putin have on Glenn Greenwald?

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  9. 2 minutes ago, CowboyFred said:

    huh?  Mueller investigation ≠ 9-11 truther shit.  Mueller's report is the conclusion of a fact finding investigation that had a limited scope.  He gave the facts of his investigation and left it up to the AG/Congress to decide whether to levy any indictments on Trump.  Information has been released but only to the AG to where he gave his view of the report.  As a fan of the legal system, I really hope they release the report and look forward to reading/analyzing it for my own understanding.

    The people that are still peddling "the president colluded with Russia to win the election" are tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorists at this point.  If you are holding out hope that there is something in that report that shows something radically different than what the AG announced, you are delusional.  The chances that there is something materially different than what the AG said are about zero. 

  10. 1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

    If that's the case, there is no reason not to release it.

    Congress will get to see it for sure.  Not sure how much of it should be made 100% open to the public.   There is a certain level of privacy that the accused deserve, even if they hold public office.

  11. 7 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

    Not sure if this has been shared concerning Barr’s letter and his obstruction finding.  It appears the lawfare folks indicate Mueller’s report may have all the obstruction evidence laid out for Congress to weigh rather than for Barr.  Barr’s obstruction conclusion potentially may have been based heavily on Barr’s belief that Article II authorities (such as firing comey or request to drop Flynn’s investigation) can never be considered obstruction. 

    “It also makes clear that the Mueller report creates an extensive record on the obstruction question. And that may well be the point. After all, what is the point of a prosecutor’s amassing a factual record and then refusing, as Mueller apparently has refused, to evaluate it in a traditional prosecutorial framework? The answer the letter suggests but does not state is that the Mueller report has teed up the question of presidential obstruction for evaluation by a different actor—to wit, by Congress—on a decidedly noncriminal basis. Mueller, being barred from indicting the president, has done the investigation, has apparently declined even to evaluate the matter as a prosecutor, and has laid out all of the facts and the arguments for and against treating the president’s behavior as criminal. It is now for other actors to decide whether the conduct Mueller describes is acceptable in a president.””

    “While Mueller left the question of criminality unaddressed, Barr himself did not. Barr opines that Mueller’s “decision to describe the facts of his obstruction inquiry without reaching any legal conclusions leaves it to the Attorney General to determine whether the conduct described in the report constitutes a crime”—though it is not clear why Barr felt this to be the case. Barr includes his own determination, along with Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein’s, that Mueller’s evidence “is not sufficient to establish that the President committed an obstruction-of-justice offense.””

     

    “Though Barr does not make reference to any concerns over the interaction between presidential authority and possible obstruction offenses, it is worth keeping in mind his memorandum on the subject from June 2018, in which he argued that conduct authorized by Article II definitionally cannot constitute obstruction.”

    https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-make-bill-barrs-letter

    This is what the French call saisir Ă  la paille.

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  12. 5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

    We won't know what the investigation found out until we read the report. 

    All we have now is a press release.

    Yes but the report probably doesn't materially differ from the summary provided.  Suggesting that at this point is bonkers.

    Do you not see how this is 9-11 truther shit at this point?  No matter how much information is released, there are going to be people that will find another direction to take this nonsense. 

  13. 14 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

    If Mueller thought it was important, I don't think he would have wrapped up the investigation.  (This assumes he had full authority to continue the investigation if he felt it was warranted.)

    The entire investigation revolved around squeezing people for information and charging them with unrelated crimes in order to get them to cooperate.   Flynn, Cohen and conspiracy nutjob Roger Stone were part of a fishing expedition. 

    This thread is filled with regurgitated "facts" from clickbait articles. Meanwhile, MSNBC and CNN went full on Infowars and no one seemed to notice.

  14. 44 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

    Yes.  Especially when you’ve tied up your online identity with this idea that is now being declared rubbish. 

    Imagine how much time was wasted on this Russian conspiracy nonsense.  It's 12+ hours of posting per day for over 2 years.  With that kind of effort, he could have gotten a law degree or maybe even found the cure for cancer.  Instead it was completely worthless.  He practically gave the politics forum cancer.

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  15. Matt Taibbi released a chapter from his upcoming book Hate Inc which details the Russiagate hoax and great disservice this this conspiracy theory has done to the credibility of the press.  Get out while you still can.   

     

    https://taibbi.substack.com/p/russiagate-is-wmd-times-a-million

    It's official: Russiagate is this generation's WMD

    The Iraq war faceplant damaged the reputation of the press. Russiagate just destroyed it

     

    Note to readers: in light of news that Special Prosecutor Robert Mueller’s investigation is complete, I’m releasing this chapter of Hate Inc. early, with a few new details added up top.

     

    Nobody wants to hear this, but news that Special Prosecutor Robert Mueller is headed home without issuing new charges is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media.

    As has long been rumored, the former FBI chief’s independent probe will result in multiple indictments and convictions, but no “presidency-wrecking” conspiracy charges, or anything that would meet the layman’s definition of “collusion” with Russia.

    With the caveat that even this news might somehow turn out to be botched, the key detail in the many stories about the end of the Mueller investigation was best expressed by the New York Times:

    A senior Justice Department official said that Mr. Mueller would not recommend new indictments.

    The Times tried to soften the emotional blow for the millions of Americans trained in these years to place hopes for the overturn of the Trump presidency in Mueller. Nobody even pretended it was supposed to be a fact-finding mission, instead of an act of faith.

    The Special Prosecutor literally became a religious figure during the last few years, with votive candles sold in his image and Saturday Night Live cast members singing “All I Want for Christmas is You” to him featuring the rhymey line: “Mueller please come through, because the only option is a coup.”

    The Times story today tried to preserve Santa Mueller’s reputation, noting Trump’s Attorney General William Barr’s reaction was an “endorsement” of the fineness of Mueller’s work:

    In an apparent endorsement of an investigation that Mr. Trump has relentlessly attacked as a “witch hunt,” Mr. Barr said Justice Department officials never had to intervene to keep Mr. Mueller from taking an inappropriate or unwarranted step.

    Mueller, in other words, never stepped out of the bounds of his job description. But could the same be said for the news media?

    For those anxious to keep the dream alive, the Times published its usual graphic of Trump-Russia “contacts,” inviting readers to keep making connections. But in a separate piece by Peter Baker, the paper noted the Mueller news had dire consequences for the press:

    It will be a reckoning for President Trump, to be sure, but also for Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel, for Congress, for Democrats, for Republicans, for the news media and, yes, for the system as a whole…

    This is a damning page one admission by the Times. Despite the connect-the-dots graphic in its other story, and despite the astonishing, emotion-laden editorial the paper also ran suggesting “We don’t need to read the Mueller report” because we know Trump is guilty, Baker at least began the work of preparing Times readers for a hard question: “Have journalists connected too many dots that do not really add up?”

    The paper was signaling it understood there would now be questions about whether or not news outlets like itself made galactic errors by betting heavily on a new, politicized approach, trying to be true to “history’s judgment” on top of the hard-enough job of just being true. Worse, in a brutal irony everyone should have seen coming, the press has now handed Trump the mother of campaign issues heading into 2020.

    Nothing Trump is accused of from now on by the press will be believed by huge chunks of the population, a group that (perhaps thanks to this story) is now larger than his original base. As Baker notes, a full 50.3% of respondents in a poll conducted this month said they agree with Trump the Mueller probe is a “witch hunt.”

    Stories have been coming out for some time now hinting Mueller’s final report might leave audiences “disappointed,” as if a President not being a foreign spy could somehow be bad news.

    Openly using such language has, all along, been an indictment. Imagine how tone-deaf you’d have to be to not realize it makes you look bad, when news does not match audience expectations you raised. To be unaware of this is mind-boggling, the journalistic equivalent of walking outside without pants.

    There will be people protesting: the Mueller report doesn’t prove anything! What about the 37 indictments? The convictions? The Trump tower revelations? The lies! The meeting with Don, Jr.? The financial matters! There’s an ongoing grand jury investigation, and possible sealed indictments, and the House will still investigate, and…

    Stop. Just stop. Any journalist who goes there is making it worse.

    For years, every pundit and Democratic pol in Washington hyped every new Russia headline like the Watergate break-in. Now, even Nancy Pelosi has said impeachment is out, unless something “so compelling and overwhelming and bipartisan” against Trump is uncovered it would be worth their political trouble to prosecute.

    MORE at the link near the top..

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