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TurkeyChew

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Posts posted by TurkeyChew

  1. 39 minutes ago, Captainant said:

    Dude it's like you're trying to tell us the sky is purple. Open your fucking eyes. Handwaving away discrimination against a black person because they are assumed to "have poor people behaviors" is just a fucking dogwhistle so you can avoid the thought of racism still existing.

    It's the same fucking reason that republicans like you pull your crotch goblins from the OPRESSIVE and OVERLY POLITICAL public school system and hide them away in a private bubble where you can control the narrative and perpetuate your waking lie. And when very fine people like you can't do that because you're too poor to keep your kids out of public schools, you instead ban the books from libraries and fucking burn them. [you == the run of the mill republican]

     

    Just fucking acknowledge that racial profiling still is alive and well. Please. If we can't fucking agree that it exists, we're never going to do a goddamn thing about it. We're going to forever go in this loop of the right intentionally mischaracterizing and demonizing buzzwords, which is never really critically examined, but nonetheless treated as indelible truth by chuds, who then storm school board meetings. Congrats on your success.

    Racial profiling absolutely still exists.

  2. 2 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:


    If ISU is a small school there are like 10-15 big ones in the country. It’s the 2nd largest school in the conference currently.

    There’s always something downstream I guess.

    Gotcha. I wasn’t talking about student population as y’all were I guess. More in stature.

    “ISU is still big, it’s the BigXII that got small”

  3. 9 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

    This is totally true.  Freshman year I went and partied with some HS buddies at Winona State (smaller public school in Minnesota).  Half of my HS went there and I had a freaking blast.  Wild house parties, and a very favorable ratio.  I actually considered transferring there.

    Then it was VEISHEA week and I was like "oh, yeah, this is why I go to a big school".  ISU had been very bad at sports that year and I hadn't gotten into the tailgate scene much.  Sophomore year my buddies and I really started tailgating in earnest and I never gave a small school another thought.  Between stuff like that and the difference in the types of concerts we got, the fact that there were a bunch of people I DIDN'T go to HS with, and everything that comes with going to a major school, I know I had a better experience.

    And I could always go slum it for a weekend if I wanted.

    I think you are the small school the guy was talking about in his post.

    • Haha 2
  4. 3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

    Well, it was because they assumed she might act like or be a poor because  . . . wait for it  . . . she was black.

    Which is the entire point.

    It wasn't because she looked "drab."  

    The article made a point to say she was not wearing any jewelry, diamonds, high end shoes or any other short-cut that signals wealth. That would seem to imply that there were indicators people look for that drive employees and buying power assumptions, no? 

    Wait did you even read the article before commenting? lol

    • Fuck You 5
  5. 21 minutes ago, Satchel said:

    It’s not a bit. Oprah is one of the richest women in the world. She was rebuffed in haute couture fashion houses in Rome, Paris and Zurich and I’m pretty sure it wasn’t because of her poor people behaviors.

    Again. Slower this time.

    1) For two pages we made pained efforts to specify American racism. You keep wanting to highlight an alleged European incident.

    2) There is literally not an example more classist than someone rebuffing someone else because of an assumption of not being wealthy enough to afford something, especially in high end haute couture fashion houses. There is a reasonable expectation and assumption knowing this that a black or a white person looking drab and not otherwise signaling wealth would be, allegedly, treated as not an appropriate patron who could purchase hyper-expensive accessories.

    3) This incident may not even be true and it might be fake news. It's, at the very least disputed, and unproven.

    Surely this is a bit.

    • Fuck You 6
  6. 8 minutes ago, Satchel said:

    What are poor people behaviors? Does Oprah have them?

    I wouldn't think she would; I'm sure we would have heard about them. Behaviors associated with poor people with respect to classism and what drives discrimination and prejudice are mostly negative and mostly in opposition to what the hegemonic class holds up as ideal. They are negative stereotypes that serve to "other" and make villains of the poor in an "us vs. them" that even extends to the aspirational (e.g. ladder climbing ambitious poor identifying or otherwise acting as if they belong to a higher social status):

    Antisocial behavior, loud, improper, messy, sloppy, vulgar, impolite, unhygienic/unclean, lazy, poor work ethic, victim-mentality, irresponsible, unreliable, etc. et al.

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  7. 3 hours ago, Satchel said:

    Did you hear the one about Oprah’s shopping sprees in Paris and Zurich?

    I googled it. I think you are joking around, but in the off-chance you aren't, three points: 1) We specified many times, racism in America, not abroad and 2) nothing more blatantly classist then being snobby to someone at a high end posh shop and saying you are too poor to look at a bag, it's pretty on the nose classism, and 3) there seems to be some he-said/she-said to this: https://www.cnn.com/2013/08/13/showbiz/oprah-winfrey-racism-switzerland/index.html

    Asked to give her version of the incident, Adriana said Winfrey had come into the store and was looking at bags when her eye was caught by a $38,000 crocodile skin number by Tom Ford.

    She told the newspaper, “I explained that this was exactly the same bag as the one I had in my hand. Only much more expensive. I would happily show her other bags, I said.”

    Adriana said Winfrey’s claim that she told the media mogul the bag was too expensive for her was absolutely not true.

    “That’s absurd. I would never say such a thing to a customer. Absolutely not. Good manners and politeness are everything in this shop,” she said.

    The store assistant added that she hadn’t recognized Winfrey but that it would not have made a difference in any case. “We make a huge effort to treat everyone with the same respect and in the same way,” she said.

  8. 4 hours ago, VRHorn said:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2022-wells-fargo-black-home-loan-refinancing/

    Black engineer with 800 credit score denied a refi by Wells Fargo. This story is ancient though - it was 3 whole weeks ago. I know the world is much different now.

    Engineer with 800 credit score = middle class. Middle class black people get discriminated against and assumed they have poor people behaviors, has been the point the entire time. It's nasty, but that doesn't surprise me.

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  9. 8 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

    My kid was asked not to return to his school today. Private catholic school, kindergarten.  He's been having behavioral problems since he started school last fall.  He had problems in Pre K too.  The school was willing to deal with certain things like running out of the classroom, hiding under his desk, being generally noncompliant.  They weren't willing to tolerate him hitting other kids.  They did for a while, but when other kids' parents started to complain the administrators' hands were tied.  The first thing that happened is they recommended that we retain him.  That was early February. That was a kick in the nuts. Then we had to come pick him up during their recess period so he wouldn't hit other kids. That was the time when it mostly occurred.  Finally today he hit a kid with his backpack right when he got there.  That was it. It would be really easy to be angry with the school and blame them for a lot of it, but the truth is that they tried.  They didn't handle everything perfectly, but at the end of the day they are not the problem, my kid is.

    We had him in group therapy sessions last fall and that seemed to help some.  When things started going off the rails this semester the group therapy sessions were full so we had him go one on one with a therapist. No visible change.  We initiated the full battery of diagnostic testing to determine what's wrong with him.  We just finished that today and we won't get answers for at least a week.

    I'm pretty much freaking out.  My wife and I have been doing a helluva lot of work to keep him in this school and to get him to at least be able to stay at the school during the day.  He just can't do it.  No matter how much we cajole, reward, threaten, love on him.  Nothing works.  He just can't do it.  my wife and I are both exhausted and scared. I am really worried about his future. In the immediate term, we have no idea what to do with him now.  Where do kids who are expelled go?  We got him a spot, mostly as a favor, from the pre-k where he was before for the next two months.  We don't think he can go back to the same school. We tested out the public school we're zoned to for our oldest for kindergarten and I was not impressed.  And for a kid with issues?  I just can't imagine it's going to be better.  But then again, I've been told that public schools have more resources for this kind of thing.  It's really a black hole for me.  We know of and have been told about private options. They sound great - for a cool 40 grand a year.  That might be out of our reach unless we make some drastic changes to our lifestyle.

    I'm really struggling with this.  Just knowing what to do and handling it...I don't even know where to start. I'm trying to show support and love to my kid; that's all I really know to do. I'm terrified about the future.  What if he just can't be in a traditional school environment? Will he be able to get any kind of education? What are his prospects for going to college, getting a job, having relationships? I'm feeling pretty helpless and really scared for my kid.  Anyone have any experience with this?

    First of all, my heart goes out to you and your wife. Obviously a very tough situation and maybe the first thing is to take a step back and reset and take a moment to remember that none of this your fault and it's overwhelmingly likely it's not your child's fault either. 

    My sister had this issue and was basically told her kid wasn't welcome (not explicitly, but reading between the lines-- this was a public school in a tony zip code)-- like the equivalent of "resigning instead of being fired". She homeschooled the child and it's worked wonders-- after what has been like 10 years you wouldn't believe how well rounded and smart the kid is compared to the behavior in Kinder. There are still impulse and anger issues sometimes, but it's really are. Some kids might need that level of hands on attention and work and love, I don't know. I'm not a therapist or an expert, just sharing an experience. And I don't have any clue your home life and situation if homeschool is even feasible. 

    Whatever the case, don't give up but also it's okay to not have all the answers and next steps by the end of the weekend. Take some time and love on the kiddo and know y'all will get through this together. God doesn't bring you to something he won't bring you through.

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  10. Bob Chapek is a conservative/has conservative personal values. He tried to leave his politics/religion/beliefs at home and just do his job and remain neutral. Apparently, these days you can't just do your job without commenting on political issues and if you don't take an active allyship stance or political role then you can get in some hot water. That is where we are at this point. 

    Just a friendly reminder for all of us in the corporate sector as we rise the ranks, to continue to "go along to get along" and to dance when the drums start playing. This is America in 2022.

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  11. 1 hour ago, 40acredropout said:

    I don't doubt that many of these small schools rage balls but I'd have a hard time going back and choosing a school that wasn't either in a major city or boasting major sports programs.  House parties can be wild for sure, but I feel like you're missing out on the full party experience if it's not complimented with other options.   

    100% this.

  12. Just now, TwiceHorn said:

    Some of that is true, in terms of a classism problem.

    But, as pointed out, there are discriminations against against blacks that are not explained statistically.  At some point, someone used "black" as an heuristic to devalue their homes on appraisals and to deny them mortgages when the objective evidence is that the black borrower is every bit as creditworthy as the white.

    Moreover, "reclassifying the problem" as something other than race denies the fact that race has been a problem for most of the existence of this country, and still hangs on as a problem to the present day.

    I don't think we can ever overcome the problem if we continue to deny its existence, or whitewash it away with other explanations.

    And that is the fundamental problem with this anti-CRT horseshit.

    I addressed the first point already as a discrimination and prejudice against a stereotype on behavior.

    For the bolded point: That's not what is happening. I know for my part, I've stated now no fewer than 6 times, that racism is ugly, real, and employed as a violent mechanism to rationalize inhumane violence upon dark skinned people. Admitting racism in America existed at scale should be table stakes for anyone and learning about it should be in scope. It's history.

     

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  13. 49 minutes ago, Captainant said:

    And again, society disagrees. Black folks are denied on mortgages at demonstrably higher rates when everything is equivalent EXCEPT race. There was ample discussion of it in this very thread. Black folks are targeted by police officers, and often times victimized by cops for no reason but being black in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    Individuals may not be racist, but the systems and mechanisms we use every day certainly still carry that bias.

    And my point is that it's NOT that easy to just make more money. In this country if you're poor, you're fucked. Our entire fiscal policy is geared to help billionaires and cut away incrementally more of the social safety net. It's all policy that's been advanced by you and your party. It's pulling the ladder up after yourself and eating the seed stock.

    Hourly wage earners are being ground into dust by this country and dont have the same access to opportunities that you or I do to actually improve ones self and make a better future.

    Appreciate the response.

    My entire point (I guess you can call it, my thesis) for two pages now has been that we are focused on the wrong -ism. We don't have a racism problem, we have a classism problem. If you address the classism, the "racism" as you see it will naturally fall away.

    To your first point: why are black folks denied mortgages higher than others? Is it because people view them as inferior based on their skin and biology? I would argue no. Is it because they believe that despite their income and earnings, they will deploy behaviors associated with the poor which would be undesirable and/or bad investments? That discrimination then would be based off social standing and class more than race. Rich black people aren't denied mortgages. Middle class black people are.

    While I don't agree with your last point, I appreciate it and your beliefs. I think your last point is actually digging deeper and if one were to align with your way of thinking economically and politically and you wanted to label the Republican party, ultimately it's more appropriate to label the Republican party "Classist" than "Racist".

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  14. 6 minutes ago, Captainant said:

    Congratulations! You're buying into the southern strategy hook line and sinker! The entire point is to reframe things as being socio-economic, while pulling the ladder up on those who are lower socio-economically. Weird how the black and minority population is WAY overrepresented in those demographics right? TOTALLY just a happy coincidence.

    That's a lovely lie to tell yourself as you continue to reap the benefits of corporate socialism and support regressive anti-worker policies.

    Let me unpack what you are saying here because I wouldn't mind an update to my education:

    It is not weird that the black and minority population is WAY overrepresented. I've said no less than 4 times that the intersectionality for poor and BIPOCs in modern America is a real result of real (systematic) racism. My only point was that in modern times today, the majority of folks aren't racist against BIPOCs as they were in the past. Today it has more to do with class than color.

    (Of course there are populations who still believe blacks are inherently biologically inferior to white people, but they are not the mainstream and the backwaters of Alabama and Vidor aren't germane to the conversation so let's agree they exist but are not statistically significant to discuss)

    And to your last point; I don't even know what you are trying to say other than use your political hammer because all problems look like political nails.

     

  15. 3 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

    Phrenology wasn't really a thing in America until the 1800s. Slavery came first, racism developed to justify it, and then they embraced ideas like phrenology to reinforce the justification. As phrenology crumbled under the immense evidence of its falseness, they turned to other reinforcements, such as "it's their culture to be violent and to hate education." But the racism came first and it's not based on anything but insecurity and hatred. Ideas that come to be associated with it are just rationalizations, not reasons. 

    I think that's what I said: Racism (blacks naturally subspecies and inferior to whites) was a rationalization for inhumane violence like slavery and then psuedo-science was a hope and attempt to codify racism via science. That stuff fell apart because it's not true and most people** accept that, thereby most people who are "racists" today are really people who object to behaviors and culture that offend them and are associated with class (again, intersectionality of race and class due to racism is real, but not tightly coupled).

  16. 10 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

    Man, it sure is funny how certain posters who totally don't care about politics at all get super worked up about people making jokes that would imply that Trump is a piece of shit.

    It's like, they are laughing at first and then a minute later start yelling "KEEP. MY FORMER PRESIDENTS. NAME. OUT. CHO. MOUF!"? Complete with tears in their eyes, even.

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  17. On 3/27/2022 at 5:02 PM, South Austin said:

    East Carolina might seem random for folks who aren’t from around there. But I grew up about two hours away, and went to undergrad my first two years at NC State before finishing up at Texas. And the No. 16 ranking is about right. Huge party school and not exactly known for its academic prowess. We used to call it Easy U or Easy Credit University.

    The most fun and sloppy people I know are the ECU and James Madison undergrads who somehow figured out how to be charming enough to get decent consulting gigs and then get a good grad degree. It's now how you start, it's how you finish, I guess-- but the party animal never changes their stripes at the end of the day.

  18. On 3/26/2022 at 11:31 PM, shadow_operative2.0 said:

    Chico St, huh. 

    I know a guy who went to Chico St. and apparently it's maniacal. It's upstate close to Oregon and basically like the TTU of Cal State in that there is nothing to do but drink for 5 years straight.

  19. 1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

    You yourself said it was an heuristic.  Racism is an heuristic.  Doesn't matter that the ultimate analysis is based on something else.  Employing the heuristic is racist.

    You're tying yourself in knots trying to justify the unjustifiable.

    If I am wrong here, then I think it's because my fundamental understanding of what constitutes racism is wrong. My understanding was it was simply a belief that superiority and inferiority were defined solely on skin color, or race. For example, Jim who is black is automatically inferior to Jim who is white, because of the skin tone.

    That core belief was perpetuated in order to justify the inhumane violence of slavery, etc. and was supported by charlatans (probably some in good faith, as well) who believed in, what we now know is pure junk science, like phrenology and eugenics and the like. This was a more mainstream and common belief pattern of white Americans in the past.

    At some point in the last half-a-dozen decades or thereabouts, I think the mainstream and common belief pattern of white America changed. No longer is there a core belief that blacks and whites (or any other number of colors and races) are different in specimen and characteristics and potential as defined by nature (racism). I think the shift is that the characteristics and abilities and potential is defined by environment, which is dictated by social class and/or socio-economics (remember, I was conflating the two upthread).

    As I've stated, legacy racism is a reason or cause for the modern day intersectionality of black people and a lower social/socio-economic class, but what America is discriminating and prejudicing against isn't the race, it's the class (poor people behaviors).

    The biggest distinction here being one can't change their race (despite the weirdos who have tried like Michael Jackson and Sammy Sosa and Rachel Dolezel), but one's socio-economic and social standing is dynamic and fluid.

     

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