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Everything posted by ouflak
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Again, I don't think he was overrated. I think it really is a pure case of seeing exactly what you're getting and what you're going to get. USC teams should do well, win a lot of close, eventually very uncomfortably close, games. He'll rope in some players with some nice Hollywood style NIL deals. Rope in a few others since he is indeed a pretty good offensive recruiter. Time will go by, and the Trojan fans will also get to experience the pain of a mystifying loss to a team that had no business being in the game at all (and where USC perhaps even had a sizable lead at some point early on). And as soon as his team(s) faces a group of guys with the kind of intensity it takes to win a playoff game, that will be the crushing end to their season. His teams have been good in bowl games outside of the playoffs. *shrug* Except for the worst kind of luck, that should continue to be the case. I haven't seen any fans saying that, and that would be patently false. We got the best that he could give, which I think is fair to say after 7 years of seeing what that is. His ceiling is high. It's just got its obvious limits. USC will soon learn about this.
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I haven't heard too many of my fellow fans ever say he was overrated. But sure have heard (and agree) that we've seen the best he can do. We've had 7 years to see what Riley had to offer - 2 OC, 5 HC. From the outside perspective, it wasn't perhaps too obvious. For those of us watching every game and keeping track, there was a very clear pattern that began to develop. The team counter intuitively changing effective (often highly effective) offensive strategy when up by a few scores. The defense having to spend more and more time on the field, especially at the middle-late stages of games. An overall lack of killer instinct and urgency, no matter what the situation. Needlessly close games against teams with (often) far inferior talent. Inexplicable, and frankly indefensible, losses. We were patient and very happy with 10+ wins, and conference titles... for a while. But as things became drawn out, and the pattern became so entrenched that it culminated into this last season where *everybody* could see what we fans have been experiencing for years - that 'nice guy' attitude, that softened up every aspect of our program, that made us weak-minded in playoffs - where you have to be at your strongest, a strange gentlemenly approach that struggled to match the chip-on-the-shoulder attitude that so many of our opponents brought onto the field. Riley had more than enough opportunities to change and adapt. His comments after the Baylor complaining about them running up the score pretty much underlined, even for his most ardent supporters, that we weren't going to see any improvement. And heading into the SEC, there was no way we stay competitive with that kind of coaching style. He's not overrated. He's a very very good coach. And I think he will have some really nice success at USC. Who knows? With NIL and some good recruiting and a bit of luck, he might finally take that we're-all-friends-here kind of game to another level. But I think we Sooner fans had enough evidence to see that it was not going to happen at OU, and it can't possibly translate to consistent success in the SEC.
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Yeah, but (I'm assuming) those are excedingly unlikely events aren't they? Developing a high effective vaccine, I think not so unlikely.... Polio Vaccine - 90%, 99% - 100% with mulitiple doses Smallpox Vaccine - 95% Diptheria Vaccinee - 96.9 - 98.2 with multiple - not sure about a single dose. Measles Vaccine - 93%, higher with multiple Rabies Vaccine (if immediately given upon suspected transmission - 100% Covid Vaccine - 86% - 95% - depending on brand and followups Those are pretty high historical percentage for some of the more well-known vaccines that have been developed over the decades. I don't think it's a win-the-lottery hope for 100% effectiveness, atleast at the initial stages, especially with a more adavanced technology being employed.
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Ofcourse not. Just was replying to the 'hope' about what the vaccine might achieve. I think just about everybody hopes for 100% percent effectiveness. Reality doesn't work like that, and this vaccine was no exception. But wasn't everybody hoping for 100%, atleast initially?
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Sorry if I'm replying out of context. But wasn't the hope initially 100% effectiveness, by pretty much every person on the planet, including and especially those who were developing them?
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It's behind a cookie-wall, but not behind a paywall, atleast not for me. I certainly do not, and will not ever, pay for 'news' on/from any site, including supposed insider sites. But there is one thing curious. The site is at eu.hookem.com. I'm able to access this with no problem as I'm based in Europe. Bit surprising you'd be seeing an actual paywall though.... I can quote the article. Dated August 23, 2021.
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I would say as soon as they decided to declare a 'national champion', such debates were inevitable. Does anybody happen to know what year holds the record for most national championship claims?
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I was thinking of that episode when I noticed my VPN! Don't know how many will get that reference though.
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I live in Manchester, England for all those interested. I thought that was in my profile (just checked, it is). All of my family (except wife and kids) lives in Florida and Oklahoma (where I was born). Curiously, my VPN is going through the Netherlands at the moment. Not sure why as it 99% of the time defaults to the UK.
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That part you quoted was indeed the trolling part, as others quickly noticed and pointed out. Don't get me wrong. I do think that the current Biden 'mandate' is barely more than political grandstanding. But we are simply not going to get 100% of the people vaccinated. And it's looking like we're probably not even going to get to that magical herd immunity percentage, atleast not by means of vaccinations. A big reason for that, in my opinion - but I believe based on very sound observation of what's going on around me and expoused by example in this thread, is that so many, encouraged by the media, have taken extreme positions instead of being willing to look for common ground. There are people on several sides of this literally wishing death on those who have different views on all of this, even if they might fundamentally agree on so many other things. I see a strange radicalized "Us" versus "Them" mentality, in what seems to me to ironically be the case that everybody here is "Us", and likewise everybody here is "Them", and yet nobody else sees it. *shrug* So maybe I'm wrong. I refuse to hate anybody because they want to enforce a vaccine mandate, and I refuse to hate anybody because they don't want a vaccine. I think we ought find a way through that everybody can live with and that would be most effective in the long run. But I think that's not going to happen now. I'm frustrated. But I think that the only thing left to do now is wait until Covid finally passes out of the news cycle and media minds, the outrageous headlines no longer get enough clicks, this thread sinks off the first page and we all move on. Maybe then, I can approach some of the people closest to me about getting vaccinated, and it doesn't immediately cause them to throw up a bunch of razorwire heavily armed defenses up.
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If only I was the problem. Unfortunately I've got immediate close family who I'm now rather certain will never be vaccinated. I seriously doubt you will ever come into contact with any of them because I doubt you would ever set foot in those neighborhoods. So that's not an issue. But I will be seeing them. And the frustrating thing is that some of them have a point. I can't overcome a generations of mistrust, that even I was to some extent exposed to as a young child. And yes, by correctly recognizing that forcing 100% vaccination is indeed an idiotic metric of success, that is indeed the only geniune attempt at answering my question(s). Since it's now must be so obvious that we as a nation are not going to get there, why not drop all of the extreme positions and go for something that can maximize our efforts instead? But I think that is simply to reasonable and middle-of-the-road a consideration. The atmosphere is toxic and there is no room for doing things that might actually work. Vaccinated and with only an overall 1.6% mortality rate? Seems highly unlikely. However since that mortality rate is somewhat higher for blacks, atleast in part because of built-in biases in the health care system itself, who knows what awaits me and members of my family?
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So sort of like a nation-wide house arrest? But if there are restaurant owners, car garages, cinema owners/managers, store owners/managers, etc..., who are not going to police these people, how do we get this 'time out' from society firmly established? In my defense, I think the only person who's actually tried to answer my question is lemonlime. I see a lot of extreme positions in all of this, from a variety of perspectives and directions. I haven't really seen anybody push forward, or the media accept, some kind of middle ground where everybody is made as safe as reasonably possible by coherent policies from our federal government. I don't think you can call Biden's 'mandate' a 'mandate'. I don't think businesses holding people job's as extortion is going to work (and is even the right thing to do, especially to minorities). I don't think this piecemeal approach is going to get everybody who we all want vaccinated, vaccinated. The extremes are so severe that it look likes to me we will never get tens of millions vaccinated and they will not suffer in any noticeable or meaningful way because of it, likely not even getting sick or dying - because this thing just isn't virulent enough to even get the point across the 'hard' way. I don't know a way through this. And I don't think anybody else does either. Alright, I'll stop trolling then.
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So how do we do it? I mean, extreme hypothetical that probably ignores any political reality, but let's just suppose the President orders that blanket vaccine mandate tomorrow. How do we enforce it on stay-at-home housewives, Jehovah's witnesses, the independtly-weathly-enough-to-not-work, and the plain old stubborn?
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Without a proper federal mandate, and I mean no exceptions, I don't see how you could possibly get all of the vaccinated to have this 'painful' life.
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I think there should be a vaccine mandate without exception for all people (except obviously those who would literally be killed by the procedure). Even some of those who get medical exemptions should get it under heavy medical supervision. No 'religious' exemptions at all. I believe the vaccine is about to be approved for children. None of this vaccine-to-go-school business. They must vaccine whether they attend a public school or not.
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Ok they lose their job, but let's say they still aren't going to get themselves vaccinated. How do we get those people vaccinated? And what about the many many people who currently can't have their jobs put on the line? John's Hopkins estimates the overall mortality rate in the United States to be about 1.6%. And after an infection we know they have significant resistance subsequently, which means and even lower mortality rate for breakthough infections - if they even ever do get infected. So letting them just 'die off' isn't an option. Even worse, once a chunk of those in that group get a confirmed infection and pull through, they may even be more likely to never try to get a vaccination. Since they can't be coered with the lose-your-job argument, how do we got those people vaccinated? @cactusflinthead, I don't think arguments (rational, emotive, etc...) are going to work, so no, I do not have a secret recipe nor do I believe anybody does. So how do we get those people vaccinated anyway?
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Yeah, that's all fine. But what about the many who can get the vaccine and choose to do the testing instead? I believe that will be the overwhelming majority of those who have that route as an option and do so. And then ofcourse there are the tens of millions who don't fall under any mandate of any kind.
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Which would be fine if Covid were 100% fatal. But the fact is that the vast majority survive and many, especially younger, don't even have symptoms. They might even get multiple variants with this being the case. So how do we get those people vaccinated?
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How do we get people who are not employed, or who are willing to lose their jobs, or who have gotten religious exemptions, or who work for under-100-employee companies, or are self-employed, etc, etc, ... vaccinated? Again, a side point, but I see large swathes of people never getting vaccinating by whatever means they see fit to avoid it. Do we just accept that at some point?
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I admit, this had me thinking as well. Someone who works for a busy people-facing company that has less than a 100 employees (for example, a popular local non-chain restaurant) can still spread the disease. And even people who are un-employed, or housewives, or self employed one-man operations can still spread the disease. Heck some of them might very well be in a more exposing position to do so. And why allow weekly testing as a substitute? But this is again off from my topic.
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Just to clarify, I'm not asking whether they should get vaccinated or not, I'm asking whether you guys think that someone who has been confirmed tested positive for both Covid and its antibodies, should still be required by their employer to get a vaccine or lose their job? It may seem like only a slightly different question. But, as some have posted, it's clear that a good number of people are never going to get vaccinated, even to the point of losing their jobs. Others will provide all sorts of fake evidence that they have been, again never ever actually getting vaccinated. So will get exemptions, perhaps religious, and many will never actually ever be required to get vaccinated if they just don't happen fall under such a mandate because of their life circumstances. So I want to keep the topics separate and get an idea for what people here think.
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So just to be clear, as the put-downs seem to be flying fast and furious here, if someone has: Verifiably tested positive for Covid and Then had an antigen test confirming antibodies Then you guys are ok if they don't get vaccinated? I do know the science says that the vaccines are more effective than natural antibodies. I also agree that most people who claim natural immunity don't actually know that for certain by any means. I'm just trying to get a feel for where some people might agree to draw the line that people shouldn't lose their jobs over a vaccine, especially if they don't work in the health field. So if somebody has had a confirmed case, and followed that up with a confirmed positive antigen test, is that sufficient to keep a job, in the general opinions here?
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First, the patronizing has to stop. Second, all mandates are going to do is disenfranchise and harden positions. I'd drop that, and fast. Next, I'd offer every effective non-invasive remedy available (based on the science) as an alternative, and do so very positively and aggressively (no patronizing). Then, have members of the community very publicly being examples of trust and confidence that this vaccine is NOT a bad thing at all. And then time. That's probably outrageously idealistic. But that's how'd I do it.
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I know I'm probably violating all sorts of internet rules by replying to this, but why would I not be concerned about the needless deaths and sickness of those in the black community, including members of my very own close family? Is there some logical reason why I shouldn't be? Is it more constructive to be as dismissive as many of those in this thread? If indeed it is the case that that is a more effective attitude, then why is this not working on a national scale?
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And it's this kind of patronizing attitude, especially in the mass media, that I feel is truly hardening the stance of many in the black community. Have you grown up with multiple generations of ingrained mistrust in government medical initiatives? If not, ofcourse it's easy for you! But as long as we continue to so casually dismiss such long entrenched, and justified, attitudes on the basis of 'we think it's pretty easy to take a look around', the more likely we are to have vast gulfs of misunderstanding and conflict. At some point, this insulting patronizing, and mandates that come with, is going to be found to be the wrong approach entirely. It's looking like that will be many thousands of deaths in the black community later.
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