Jump to content

ouflak

Legacy Members
  • Posts

    181
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by ouflak

  1. It's behind a cookie-wall, but not behind a paywall, atleast not for me. I certainly do not, and will not ever, pay for 'news' on/from any site, including supposed insider sites. But there is one thing curious. The site is at eu.hookem.com. I'm able to access this with no problem as I'm based in Europe. Bit surprising you'd be seeing an actual paywall though.... I can quote the article. Dated August 23, 2021.
  2. I would say as soon as they decided to declare a 'national champion', such debates were inevitable. Does anybody happen to know what year holds the record for most national championship claims?
  3. I was thinking of that episode when I noticed my VPN! Don't know how many will get that reference though.
  4. I live in Manchester, England for all those interested. I thought that was in my profile (just checked, it is). All of my family (except wife and kids) lives in Florida and Oklahoma (where I was born). Curiously, my VPN is going through the Netherlands at the moment. Not sure why as it 99% of the time defaults to the UK.
  5. That part you quoted was indeed the trolling part, as others quickly noticed and pointed out. Don't get me wrong. I do think that the current Biden 'mandate' is barely more than political grandstanding. But we are simply not going to get 100% of the people vaccinated. And it's looking like we're probably not even going to get to that magical herd immunity percentage, atleast not by means of vaccinations. A big reason for that, in my opinion - but I believe based on very sound observation of what's going on around me and expoused by example in this thread, is that so many, encouraged by the media, have taken extreme positions instead of being willing to look for common ground. There are people on several sides of this literally wishing death on those who have different views on all of this, even if they might fundamentally agree on so many other things. I see a strange radicalized "Us" versus "Them" mentality, in what seems to me to ironically be the case that everybody here is "Us", and likewise everybody here is "Them", and yet nobody else sees it. *shrug* So maybe I'm wrong. I refuse to hate anybody because they want to enforce a vaccine mandate, and I refuse to hate anybody because they don't want a vaccine. I think we ought find a way through that everybody can live with and that would be most effective in the long run. But I think that's not going to happen now. I'm frustrated. But I think that the only thing left to do now is wait until Covid finally passes out of the news cycle and media minds, the outrageous headlines no longer get enough clicks, this thread sinks off the first page and we all move on. Maybe then, I can approach some of the people closest to me about getting vaccinated, and it doesn't immediately cause them to throw up a bunch of razorwire heavily armed defenses up.
  6. If only I was the problem. Unfortunately I've got immediate close family who I'm now rather certain will never be vaccinated. I seriously doubt you will ever come into contact with any of them because I doubt you would ever set foot in those neighborhoods. So that's not an issue. But I will be seeing them. And the frustrating thing is that some of them have a point. I can't overcome a generations of mistrust, that even I was to some extent exposed to as a young child. And yes, by correctly recognizing that forcing 100% vaccination is indeed an idiotic metric of success, that is indeed the only geniune attempt at answering my question(s). Since it's now must be so obvious that we as a nation are not going to get there, why not drop all of the extreme positions and go for something that can maximize our efforts instead? But I think that is simply to reasonable and middle-of-the-road a consideration. The atmosphere is toxic and there is no room for doing things that might actually work. Vaccinated and with only an overall 1.6% mortality rate? Seems highly unlikely. However since that mortality rate is somewhat higher for blacks, atleast in part because of built-in biases in the health care system itself, who knows what awaits me and members of my family?
  7. So sort of like a nation-wide house arrest? But if there are restaurant owners, car garages, cinema owners/managers, store owners/managers, etc..., who are not going to police these people, how do we get this 'time out' from society firmly established? In my defense, I think the only person who's actually tried to answer my question is lemonlime. I see a lot of extreme positions in all of this, from a variety of perspectives and directions. I haven't really seen anybody push forward, or the media accept, some kind of middle ground where everybody is made as safe as reasonably possible by coherent policies from our federal government. I don't think you can call Biden's 'mandate' a 'mandate'. I don't think businesses holding people job's as extortion is going to work (and is even the right thing to do, especially to minorities). I don't think this piecemeal approach is going to get everybody who we all want vaccinated, vaccinated. The extremes are so severe that it look likes to me we will never get tens of millions vaccinated and they will not suffer in any noticeable or meaningful way because of it, likely not even getting sick or dying - because this thing just isn't virulent enough to even get the point across the 'hard' way. I don't know a way through this. And I don't think anybody else does either. Alright, I'll stop trolling then.
  8. So how do we do it? I mean, extreme hypothetical that probably ignores any political reality, but let's just suppose the President orders that blanket vaccine mandate tomorrow. How do we enforce it on stay-at-home housewives, Jehovah's witnesses, the independtly-weathly-enough-to-not-work, and the plain old stubborn?
  9. Without a proper federal mandate, and I mean no exceptions, I don't see how you could possibly get all of the vaccinated to have this 'painful' life.
  10. I think there should be a vaccine mandate without exception for all people (except obviously those who would literally be killed by the procedure). Even some of those who get medical exemptions should get it under heavy medical supervision. No 'religious' exemptions at all. I believe the vaccine is about to be approved for children. None of this vaccine-to-go-school business. They must vaccine whether they attend a public school or not.
  11. Ok they lose their job, but let's say they still aren't going to get themselves vaccinated. How do we get those people vaccinated? And what about the many many people who currently can't have their jobs put on the line? John's Hopkins estimates the overall mortality rate in the United States to be about 1.6%. And after an infection we know they have significant resistance subsequently, which means and even lower mortality rate for breakthough infections - if they even ever do get infected. So letting them just 'die off' isn't an option. Even worse, once a chunk of those in that group get a confirmed infection and pull through, they may even be more likely to never try to get a vaccination. Since they can't be coered with the lose-your-job argument, how do we got those people vaccinated? @cactusflinthead, I don't think arguments (rational, emotive, etc...) are going to work, so no, I do not have a secret recipe nor do I believe anybody does. So how do we get those people vaccinated anyway?
  12. Yeah, that's all fine. But what about the many who can get the vaccine and choose to do the testing instead? I believe that will be the overwhelming majority of those who have that route as an option and do so. And then ofcourse there are the tens of millions who don't fall under any mandate of any kind.
  13. Which would be fine if Covid were 100% fatal. But the fact is that the vast majority survive and many, especially younger, don't even have symptoms. They might even get multiple variants with this being the case. So how do we get those people vaccinated?
  14. How do we get people who are not employed, or who are willing to lose their jobs, or who have gotten religious exemptions, or who work for under-100-employee companies, or are self-employed, etc, etc, ... vaccinated? Again, a side point, but I see large swathes of people never getting vaccinating by whatever means they see fit to avoid it. Do we just accept that at some point?
  15. I admit, this had me thinking as well. Someone who works for a busy people-facing company that has less than a 100 employees (for example, a popular local non-chain restaurant) can still spread the disease. And even people who are un-employed, or housewives, or self employed one-man operations can still spread the disease. Heck some of them might very well be in a more exposing position to do so. And why allow weekly testing as a substitute? But this is again off from my topic.
  16. Just to clarify, I'm not asking whether they should get vaccinated or not, I'm asking whether you guys think that someone who has been confirmed tested positive for both Covid and its antibodies, should still be required by their employer to get a vaccine or lose their job? It may seem like only a slightly different question. But, as some have posted, it's clear that a good number of people are never going to get vaccinated, even to the point of losing their jobs. Others will provide all sorts of fake evidence that they have been, again never ever actually getting vaccinated. So will get exemptions, perhaps religious, and many will never actually ever be required to get vaccinated if they just don't happen fall under such a mandate because of their life circumstances. So I want to keep the topics separate and get an idea for what people here think.
  17. So just to be clear, as the put-downs seem to be flying fast and furious here, if someone has: Verifiably tested positive for Covid and Then had an antigen test confirming antibodies Then you guys are ok if they don't get vaccinated? I do know the science says that the vaccines are more effective than natural antibodies. I also agree that most people who claim natural immunity don't actually know that for certain by any means. I'm just trying to get a feel for where some people might agree to draw the line that people shouldn't lose their jobs over a vaccine, especially if they don't work in the health field. So if somebody has had a confirmed case, and followed that up with a confirmed positive antigen test, is that sufficient to keep a job, in the general opinions here?
  18. First, the patronizing has to stop. Second, all mandates are going to do is disenfranchise and harden positions. I'd drop that, and fast. Next, I'd offer every effective non-invasive remedy available (based on the science) as an alternative, and do so very positively and aggressively (no patronizing). Then, have members of the community very publicly being examples of trust and confidence that this vaccine is NOT a bad thing at all. And then time. That's probably outrageously idealistic. But that's how'd I do it.
  19. I know I'm probably violating all sorts of internet rules by replying to this, but why would I not be concerned about the needless deaths and sickness of those in the black community, including members of my very own close family? Is there some logical reason why I shouldn't be? Is it more constructive to be as dismissive as many of those in this thread? If indeed it is the case that that is a more effective attitude, then why is this not working on a national scale?
  20. And it's this kind of patronizing attitude, especially in the mass media, that I feel is truly hardening the stance of many in the black community. Have you grown up with multiple generations of ingrained mistrust in government medical initiatives? If not, ofcourse it's easy for you! But as long as we continue to so casually dismiss such long entrenched, and justified, attitudes on the basis of 'we think it's pretty easy to take a look around', the more likely we are to have vast gulfs of misunderstanding and conflict. At some point, this insulting patronizing, and mandates that come with, is going to be found to be the wrong approach entirely. It's looking like that will be many thousands of deaths in the black community later.
  21. I think the mistrust with regards to government policies towards medical policies is far deeper in the black community than many realize. It is somewhat insulting to be told to dismiss an entire culture of hesitancy based on established historical events with remarks such as "It's free, easy, science,... just do it.". And I believe it is the height of naivety to think that it is that simple to surmount this hesitancy as well. The only way to overcome that hesitancy in the black community is time, not mandates. Until that is understood, I believe more such clashes, along with the deep misunderstandings such as those expressed in this thread, are only going to continue. And, perhaps ironically, it's the black community that is going to suffer most because of these misunderstandings.
  22. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/blm-organizer-de-blasio-vaccine-mandate-weaponized-black-community
  23. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Bowers, which ofcourse inspired the film Philidelphia. I have to say though that I think drawing this kind of parallel seems specious to me.
  24. This isn't discussed. All that's focused on is white GOP. But there are more diverse considerations here. And I'm starting to think we are way beyond what is in the public interest. https://www.8newsnow.com/news/local-news/officials-push-covid-vaccines-for-local-minority-communities/ Nevada Congresswoman Dina Titus:
  25. https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/ I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of these particular groups of people who will be negatively affected by this mandate are NOT Trump fans, and probably wouldn't even know who 'Tucker Carson' is.
×
×
  • Create New...