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Posts posted by JBJ
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15 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:
translation:
"we have a thread about how much we don't like being pwned when we come in here and get schooled"
Shitpost response to the place being a shithole. Ironic but not unexpected.
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4 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:
waiting for the mea culpa from @JBJ on claiming the dude is child sex trafficker
It seems to be adult trafficking, so congrats that I was technically wrong on an insignificant detail. As you also are in the sentence above, but I don't need your apology.
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7 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:
Oh my god. How about the district court ruling then? Christ you’ll really find any way to brush it aside wont you?
The effect of the supreme court ruling (besides changing words used) was basically to ask the lower court to better clarify what it wants. Which the lower court can't do effectively because anything it actually commands, so-to-speak, will get overturned. So everyone is now playing a game of last liar.
What do you think the SCOTUS ruling did?
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1 minute ago, Red Five said:
Tell that to the President of the United States who is ignoring court orders, including a 9-0 one from the Supreme Court. We don't get to choose our constitutional crises.
The SCOTUS ruling was kind of a punt. I think that's actually a contributing factor.
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I only pointed that out to stave off the accusation that it was a Trump plant or whatever because people already said his admin made it up.
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37 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:
So given the fact that a major part of your argument was that it's his lawyers fault for not filing habeas corpus, has your opinion changed at all? Part of the reason you are still getting shit is because you seemingly realize that a major input was completely wrong but don't seem to be adjusting your conclusion.
Changes:
The idea that it was a manufactured case for political reasons is from the Boasberg one. I still think that one is. But this one definitely wasn't his lawyers fault or deliberate nor the judge's (although giving on simple thing like the deadlines would be helpful.)
Things that haven't changed:
This was an Executive error.
Trump is resisting the court order or at least maliciously compliant while he is farming it for support.
It's a losing fight de facto (best result is he's released from prison and joins his family in El Salvador, but he's not coming back in any meaningful way.)
It's not any sort of case to have a constitutional crisis over.
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Just now, Bozo_Casanova said:
You said it wasn’t the hill to die on. My dude, Paul Revere was arrested 250 years ago TODAY. If putting limits on the head of state isn’t worth defending, nothing is.
My dude, Beastie Boys weren't even alive that long ago.
The facts still just aren't great to die here. This guy is Claudette Colvin, not Rosa Parks.
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Just now, Dahobbs said:
My guy, we told you multiple times you were wrong about the facts. You kept confidently rebutting everyone. That's not on us.
Maybe. But it's also why this forum has a thread dedicated to how big of a shithole it is.
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4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:
You aren't. I understand what you're saying. But he literally did (see below). Now, it appears a lot of that was because he didn't know what he was talking about and conflated this with other cases. And that is my point, the only ones saying this doesn't matter are either ignorant or evil. He was pretty fucking determined to be in the latter category by asserting clearly incorrect facts. Either he was parroting lies (including that the guy is a member of MS-13) or he was being obstinate in his refusal to acknowledge that maybe he didn't know what he was talking about. While the latter isn't AS bad, it certainly isn't a good quality either.
It's at the bottom of last page, but I said I was combining the two cases in my head.
What's funny is it took two pages from someone to even notice without simply slinging an insult.
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Just now, fuggled said:
To clarify, he wasn't granted asylum. He applied for asylum, but you have to apply within a year of entering the country so it was denied. He was granted protection from removal, which I've heard is more rare and a higher bar to clear than asylum.
Higher bar to clear, but a worse status. It's more like TPS, immigration proceedings can continue, but the hold prevents certain orders from being actionable. It's literally immigration limbo and is a bad system.
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13 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:
I think you're conflating the JGG case before Boasberg with this one.
SCOTUS in JGG admitted that all of these deportees were entitled to due process, but also said habeas was the exclusive remedy. https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24a931_2c83.pdf
This is a habeas case where it is alleged that he received no formal notice and his wife found he was deported to CECOT by recognizing his photo and tattoos. And not only did he not receive notice, he was barred from removal by an immigration court. https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69777799/abrego-garcia-v-noem/#entry-57
I actually am as multiple discussions are going on simultaneously. He was in El Salvador already when the case was filed and it actually is habeas. This is more like the Quintero Chacon case.
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6 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:
Too many words.
@JBJ - the White House and president are defying the law under the constitution and an order of the United States Supreme Court. Either you oppose that or you want a king. Which is it?
I've answered this several times. It's not okay. It's on purpose, too. You guys want me to be something that I'm not.
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2 minutes ago, immamac said:
No, public opinion is reinforced by the media, that's what you are missing. People WANT this guy deported illegally and WANT it to be problematic. Look at the white house tweet.
This was kind of the point of my original post. This specific case is actually stupid all around. Democrats want it to look outrageous, Trump wants Democrats to look crazy. Both have been successful depending on what echo chamber you step into.
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Someome show me where his lawyers alleged there was no notice. I've seen this said multiple times. His lawyers certainly knew to file this case while he was being moved.
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1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:
There was a fucking court order not to deport him. Why the fuck do you think habeas would be any different? What the fuck is wrong with you?
I agree. I believe deporting someone under the A/S Act would actually take immigration courts out of the picture, but I'm not sure it should apply to current orders. That's ultimately what this actual case is about, right?
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2 minutes ago, Hookah Horns said:
This is some breathtaking stupidity.
No words suffice for your comment blaming an illegally deported man for not telling his lawyers to file habeas.
I believe it was on purpose. They likely couldn't proceed with this case because the habeas case would happen first. If Abrego wasn't aware of this, his lawyers should be the ones in the Salvadorian prison.
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3 minutes ago, immamac said:
JBJ is digging in his heels a bit, but this is what I'm talking about when ideologues start running people off. His first post isn't that inflammatory and not something a ton of people disagree with.
I also think this is a shitty hill to die on, but unlike JBJ do think it's a required hill to die on.
In all honesty if he's out of the gulag and just in El Salvador as a free man everyone should let cooler heads prevail and just fucking drop it. It sucks for him, but also there's a part of this where the stance of "fuck him he's not some saint who was working hard to naturalize or something." Is valid, I'm not saying I agree with it, but it's definitely a not absurd take.
I personally would like him to come back and have his due process, ultimately I do believe he will get deported anyway, but getting out of the gulag is the main sticking point for me for this case, and all the others.
Unfortunately this case doesn't call into question the legality of the gulag, just the means of which he was deported there etc.
Forget it. I was meaning to leave anyway. I'm feeling sick at work, but this clearly isn't the place to discuss this topic.
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1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:
Until SCOTUS stuck its dick in this beehive, habeas actually wasn't considered the appropriate remedy to contest a wrongful removal because habeas is for contesting wrongful detention, which Abrego Garcia's attorneys weren't contesting. SCOTUS intervened to try to save Trump from himself and in the process butchered the applicable law, something they fucking love to do these days.
They also are used to contest movements of prisoners in general, not just deportations.
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1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:
Oh, after several libelous allegations of specific facts you acknowledge you don't actually know what the fuck you're talking about?
Holy shit, we're making progress.
Pretty sure Subliminal admitted he mistated that in his original post.
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12 minutes ago, fuggled said:
Man, there are a few things you have to keep in mind here.
First, the judge that determined Abrego Garcia is MS-13 was an immigration judge. This was not a criminal case. The police/district attorney in Prince George did not bring any charges against him. Immigration judges/courts are very different from criminal courts. They are making administrative determinations.
Second, the hearing where this determination occurred was a bond hearing by the immigration judge. It was to determine if he should be granted bail or held until his immigration case is complete. In this situation, the standard is that ICE/DHS claims Abrego Garcia is a threat or flight risk. It is up to Abrego Garcia to prove to the judge that he is not a threat to the community. It is a very high bar putting the onus on the defendant to prove a negative. And the judge is completely reasonable in being cautious and not granting release. But it is a very different standard than anything we'd see in a criminal case.
Third, Fox News, Pam Bondi and the White House keep talking about "two judges determined he's MS-13". The second judge was handling the appeal of the bond hearing. Still an immigration judge, still not a criminal case. In this appeal, the judge is not tasked with determining whether he's MS-13. Instead, the appeal judge has a narrow task of determining whether they original judge clearly erred in making the bond decision. Denying the appeal just means the judge determines that there was some evidence originally presented and the original judge was being reasonably cautious.
I'm aware of all this. I'm not the one here spreading misinfo about habeas whack-a-mole and his deportation status.
Since people are logging alts to neg me, I'll leave this "shithole" again. I'd love if y'all considered these two things:
1) This is actually the dumbest possible potential constitutional crisis. Mostly due to politics on both sides being more important than legal procedure.
2) There was an actual solution to this. Abrego could very easily not be deported right now and he could actually be having the trial everyone thinks he should be having (and that's due to Trump and not really due to the judge either - not his responsibility but he definitely should have told the lawyers to also file for habeas, it was clear in their original filing that they intended to).
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3 minutes ago, Gap03 said:
But the habeas filing had to be made in the jurisdiction where he was being held, and ICE kept moving him so his attorneys didn't know where that was ... you see the problem?
You cannot move someone across state lines without prior notice and cannot move them at all once habeus is filed.
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3 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:
Did they even know where he was before he was deported?
Yes. He was being held in Texas, I believe. They even amended their initial filing before he was deported, so they had time to file a separate case.
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2 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:
They said a gang, who are rivals of MS13, were harassing his family’s business. You know, how cartels and gangs are wont to do? Look, if the government has proof of him being a gang member and has committed crimes, bring it all forward to a court and present it. Which would be, and this is gonna blow your mind, due process!
I'm not disagreeing. His lawyers should have filed habeas and they could actually argue that and halt his deportation at the same time.
Why do you suppose they chose not to? Incompetence?
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Trump’s El Salvador Gulag
in Cloak Room
Posted
Not a shithole @immamac