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How would you rank these point guards?

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Posted (edited)

i hope the main takeaway for most people here is that it is seriously hard to win a championship at the highest levels of sports. we shit on players who've never won, shit on coaches who've never won, shit on players and coaches who actually have won, sometimes multiple titles, and we pretty much act like 98% of coaches and players are losers who either never won shit, or who got lucky or were fortunate to win because of this reason or that.

But then you get into discussions like this, and people recount just how many things had to happen for Team A or Player A to win a title, and you get reminded of just how insanely difficult it actually is to win titles, and just how many great players and coaches get tantalizingly close without ever sealing the deal.  

Look at LeBron and KD- all time great talents in their prime with zero rings, desperate to win titles; one forms a super team in Miami and the other a super team in Golden State. most people shit all over both of them for these moves, but what really ended up happening? did they win 75 games a year and go undefeated through the playoffs for three or four straight years? nope. in fact both went to the Finals and lost, and for the most part they still had to scratch and claw and show up in crunch time to win those titles. it's proof of just how difficult it is to actually win it all. bottom line- fans are way too hard on athletes and coaches, and we should really be giving pretty much all of them a lot more credit, titles or not. 

 

Edited by Goo Punch

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Posted (edited)

follow up to my last post- how many people loved to call Andy Reid a loser or a choke artist before this season? answer: a lot. but then he wins a super bowl, and the number of people who shot on him drops drastically. he goes from a lifetime loser to a champion and HOF coach in three hours. that's how severely and we judge these people, and how flaky we are with said judgments.

Beyond that, you still have plenty of people saying, "oh big deal, he finally won a title because he had a team loaded with All Pros and MVPs. I could have won a title with Mahomes, Hill, Kelce, plus a great defense and a great kicker. Yeah, great job Andy Reid. 🙄." But that's the thing- nobody is out here coaching up/willing scrub teams to victory. meanwhile every single year in every single sport we see great/supremely talented teams that fail to win all, sometimes year upon year (Bills, Jazz, Braves, etc). people really don't appreciate how hard it is to win titles man, and it's a shame, because sports would be a lot more fun to follow if more people understood this. there'd be a lot less vitriol, and titles would feel even sweeter. never gonna happen, but, be a lot cooler if it did. 

Edited by Goo Punch

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2 hours ago, Kermit said:

So what you’re saying is fuck Derek Fisher and Joey Crawford? 

It doesn't even really need to be said, but duh.

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18 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

And the Clippers game you are referencing was game 5 against OKC in 2014. Clippers had a 7pt lead with less than a minute left. And had the ball. They choked and lost the series. But that game, Ibaka injured himself. And the Thnder could not compete with the Spurs without Ibaka out there.

That was a nutty series that included the infamous out of bounds call (or no call) on Reggie Jackson in game 5. Through the first game or 2 everyone was half convinced that Chris Paul could shut down Durant. Then Durant just annihilated them down the stretch of that series. He put up 33/10/5 over 6 games on .470/.385/.879 shooting - including a 39/16/5 smackdown on the road in game 6. 

And the Thunder still very much competed with us despite Ibaka missing the first 2 games and playing injured in the next 4. The home team won every game through 5 and game 6 went into overtime on a Manu 3 and ridiculous Kawhi steal/block on Westbrook. 

That was an awesome playoffs. Pacers/Heat was still hot, Dallas took us to 7 in the first round on that insane Vince Carter 3 from the corner - I beleive OKC/Memphis went to 7 in the first round including multiple overtime games. And then obviously the Finals was very enjoyable 🙂

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5 hours ago, ztejas said:

That was a nutty series that included the infamous out of bounds call (or no call) on Reggie Jackson in game 5. Through the first game or 2 everyone was half convinced that Chris Paul could shut down Durant. Then Durant just annihilated them down the stretch of that series. He put up 33/10/5 over 6 games on .470/.385/.879 shooting - including a 39/16/5 smackdown on the road in game 6. 

And the Thunder still very much competed with us despite Ibaka missing the first 2 games and playing injured in the next 4. The home team won every game through 5 and game 6 went into overtime on a Manu 3 and ridiculous Kawhi steal/block on Westbrook. 

That was an awesome playoffs. Pacers/Heat was still hot, Dallas took us to 7 in the first round on that insane Vince Carter 3 from the corner - I beleive OKC/Memphis went to 7 in the first round including multiple overtime games. And then obviously the Finals was very enjoyable 🙂

The Mavs actually gave the Spurs the best series that whole title run they had. They took them to 7. They actually led 2-1 on the Vince game winner.

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18 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

The Mavs actually gave the Spurs the best series that whole title run they had. They took them to 7. They actually led 2-1 on the Vince game winner.

You're right - I thought it was game 6 for some reason. Game 6 went down to the wire as well.

That was a tough series but you could make the argument that we got better after that. Also, not to diminish that Mavs team, but had OKC held on in game 6 in the WCF I would have been much more nervous going into a game 7 against them than that game 7 against the Mavs. At the end of the day your best players were Monta Ellis and a 35 year old Nowitzki. I'll roll the dice on that versus prime KD and Westbrool any day of the week.

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21 hours ago, ztejas said:

You're right - I thought it was game 6 for some reason. Game 6 went down to the wire as well.

That was a tough series but you could make the argument that we got better after that. Also, not to diminish that Mavs team, but had OKC held on in game 6 in the WCF I would have been much more nervous going into a game 7 against them than that game 7 against the Mavs. At the end of the day your best players were Monta Ellis and a 35 year old Nowitzki. I'll roll the dice on that versus prime KD and Westbrool any day of the week.

Yep game 6 came down to the final minutes. It was tense as hell. In game 1, Dallas had a 10pt lead in the 4th qtr but fell apart. Dallas just ran out of gas that series and we did not have the talent in the end. SA blew the doors off the game from the jump in game 7. Was a blowout the whole time. We never stood a chance. And ever since that game, it all clicked for SA and they never looked back. And they dominated the Heat more than any team ever has and that was one of the bigger beatdowns in a Finals I have seen. Especially against a team with as much talent as the Heat.

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